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BRIMTAK	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:32:00 - [1] Edited by: BRIMTAK on 06/02/2011 03:35:04 I was running a Level 3 mission in a hurricane and another hurricane came in, looted one of my wrecks and attacked and destroyed my hurricane because he was rigged for PVP and I was rigged for PVE. There was no concord response and the battle did take a couple of minutes with no concord help. I was in a high sec system (Aubudan, near Rens). I am not a member of a militia and my corp was not at war with the player. He did not become a war target until he looted my wreck. This seems all a little too unfair. I understand that your never really 'safe' in the game, but I enjoy playing PVE more than PVP and especially when I'm not prepared to fight a PVP battle and have loadouts for PVE. I guess I'm just going to have to adapt and probe some other PVE mission runners and come wipe them out in high sec with a PVP loadout. I mean is this normal, because if so than I doubt I will be doing any more missions at all. To be so easily attacked while your ship is setup for PVE is a bit lame.
Malkev GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Malkev on 06/02/2011 03:41:09 Edited by: Malkev on 06/02/2011 03:40:16 Aggression Mechanics 1. He took stuff from you, thus becoming red to you. 2. You fired on him, you became red to him. 3. He killed you. Quote: Don't be so hasty to attack a thief, however, as he may be fit specifically to take you down and even if you destroy him he can return in another ship. So before you kill that hauler that's stealing your ore or that frigate that's stealing your mission loot, remember that they have 15 minutes in which they can come back in a combat ship and kill you. For many that call themselves "high sec pirates", this is the ultimate goal of the theft. My advice here is to leave thieves alone or bring a corpmate for backup in a small ship like an assault frigate or a cruiser that can kill the thief. The thief will then be able to attack your backup but not your main ship.
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:41:00 - [3] The problem is that you shot him first you stupid ****. Learn the game mechanics.
BRIMTAK	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:43:00 - [4] Edited by: BRIMTAK on 06/02/2011 03:46:10 Okay thanks for the insults to a month old player. //Thanks for the info, so basically if I didn't fire on him than I would've been ok and he wouldn't have been able to attack me? //Reading over the game mechanics some more.
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Loraine Gess on 06/02/2011 03:45:54 Then your drones aggro'd him. He cannot fire on you first. Edit: Nice edit buddy. "I didn't fire on him first!!" Yes you did. Idiot.
BRIMTAK	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Loraine Gess Edited by: Loraine Gess on 06/02/2011 03:45:54 Then your drones aggro'd him. He cannot fire on you first. Edit: Nice edit buddy. "I didn't fire on him first!!" Yes you did. Idiot. Okay since we can call names here ont his forum, you're a prick buddy, now GTFO
masternerdguy Gallente Meerkat Maner	Posted - 2011.02.06 03:49:00 - [7] this should answer your questions
BRIMTAK	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:01:00 - [8] Originally by: masternerdguy this should answer your questions This makes lots of sense, thanks. I had assumed that war targets were mutual as in once he was red to me I was red to him.
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:03:00 - [9] There's not even any war targets involved here, go back to reading up on the game mechanics.
masternerdguy Gallente Meerkat Maner	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Loraine Gess There's not even any war targets involved here, go back to reading up on the game mechanics. he understands the mechanic but used the wrong term.
BRIMTAK	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Loraine Gess There's not even any war targets involved here, go back to reading up on the game mechanics. You must get ignored a lot IRL because you bring absolutely nothing to a conversation. You sir are the idiot.
Boltorano Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:37:00 - [12] You seem to be quite quick to snap at anyone who makes a comment that is remotely negative to you, this is not a good way to make friends. Expecting to be called a "douchebag" in next reply.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:42:00 - [13] Yeah, that other player was looking for you to fire on him. Best thing to do is just ignore them or laugh at them in local. Make all your wrecks blue and continue on with what you were doing before the griefer showed up. They'll leave soon enough when they realize they can't get you to engage.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:47:00 - [14] The quickest way to get rid of a griefer is usually just abandon wrecks (Right click, abandon wreck, they'll turn blue). He loses interest soon and goes away. Shooting wrecks takes time, pays no bounty, and shows that you care. It's often counterproductive if your goal is to get rid of him. I sometimes take the bait when bored just for the hell of it. The right way to do this is shoot the bait, wait for him to warp out to swap ship, warp out yourself and refit for pvp, and come back for the fight. It will usually take less time for you to refit from a saved pvp fit than for him to swap ships. He won't know you're pvp fit. Nowdays I only use Mach and Tengu for grinding missions. With pvp fit Mach/tengu, against the canes or cynnabals that are popular among griefers, outcome is predetermined. Due to mechanics, he can't bring in corpies, the griefer is alone, in a 1v1 loopsided to your favor. If he brings in corpies, and they flip cans, don't shoot them. Finish off the first, then kill them one by one. They can't shoot you without concording unless you shoot them first. It is pretty much the only 1v1 I could find those days. The rest of "pvp" consist of obligatory blobbing, hardly fun. You don't need a Mach or tengu to do this safely. Something like a neut domi gets the job done easily enough too. Even boats that usually aren't used for pvp, like Vargur and Rattlesnake, can make quick work of the typically poorly fit and poorly skilled griefers. They usually come to you, so you don't need speed, fit lots of tackle, and you're golden. If done correctly, it's shooting fish in a barrel. That said, I wouldn't do this with a CNR. It just sucks too much. Better to not do this until you're higher sp too. A drake with poor sp won't have much of an advantage.
Malkev GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:53:00 - [15] Edited by: Malkev on 06/02/2011 04:54:11 Originally by: Boltorano You seem to be quite quick to snap at anyone who makes a comment that is remotely negative to you, this is not a good way to make friends. Expecting to be called a "douchebag" in next reply. You seem to be quite quick in defending an expletive spewing child.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Boltorano You seem to be quite quick to snap at anyone who makes a comment that is remotely negative to you, this is not a good way to make friends. Expecting to be called a "douchebag" in next reply. I'm going to double post here since you're wrong, those other players posting here with the negative sarcastic replies have no common courtesy towards others and they started it in the first place. There was no reason for them to be insulting or rude. They were just looking to troll and acting like that gives them a large Epeen. I myself detest Forum Trolls who have nothing positive or constructive to add who are actually wasting everyone's time by needlessly posting their negative replies in an attempt to try to make themselves look superior. Personally I don't blame the OP and I would have probably responded back about the same.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.06 05:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Loraine Gess Edited by: Loraine Gess on 06/02/2011 03:45:54 Then your drones aggro'd him. He cannot fire on you first. Translation: Don't set your drones on aggressive. Manually send them to attack targets if you want to be safe. Or be sure to recall them and change their behavior if someone shows up in your mission. You can set shortcut keys (which I think were automatically created in the last major patch.) ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.06 08:15:00 - [18] Drones never agro on theft. I've tested this myself too. You always have the option to ignore the thief or attack the thief. Drones will never take the choice away from you.
dorfsorc	Posted - 2011.02.06 16:12:00 - [19] one of many harsh lessons in the steep learning curve of eve. my first ship loss was a domi to a loot ninja. my fellow corpmates all joined about the same time and had no experience with the game so we couldnt help each other out covering the gaps in our game knowledge. If you joined EVE on your own or with a few new friends, take some time to read these forums. I just started looking at them recently. There is a wealth of information here to help be a better pilot. As to the namecalling that seems so prevalent here, get used to it. There is a "pirate" culture in EVE, the loud and nervy seem to have fun here. Good luck in game. The Dorf
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.02.06 16:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Goose99 Nowdays I only use Mach and Tengu for grinding missions. With pvp fit Mach/tengu, against the canes or cynnabals that are popular among griefers, outcome is predetermined. Due to mechanics, he can't bring in corpies, the griefer is alone, in a 1v1 loopsided to your favor. If he brings in corpies, and they flip cans, don't shoot them. Finish off the first, then kill them one by one. They can't shoot you without concording unless you shoot them first. don't they usually bring RR backup?

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2011.02.06 16:57:00 - [21] Thread cleaned. Please post in a constructive manner. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us

masternerdguy Gallente Meerkat Maner	Posted - 2011.02.06 17:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Goose99 Nowdays I only use Mach and Tengu for grinding missions. With pvp fit Mach/tengu, against the canes or cynnabals that are popular among griefers, outcome is predetermined. Due to mechanics, he can't bring in corpies, the griefer is alone, in a 1v1 loopsided to your favor. If he brings in corpies, and they flip cans, don't shoot them. Finish off the first, then kill them one by one. They can't shoot you without concording unless you shoot them first. don't they usually bring RR backup? If you lack honor you do. I just use this: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49813-Sleipnir-Mission-Hunter.html
Goose99	Posted - 2011.02.06 20:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Goose99 Nowdays I only use Mach and Tengu for grinding missions. With pvp fit Mach/tengu, against the canes or cynnabals that are popular among griefers, outcome is predetermined. Due to mechanics, he can't bring in corpies, the griefer is alone, in a 1v1 loopsided to your favor. If he brings in corpies, and they flip cans, don't shoot them. Finish off the first, then kill them one by one. They can't shoot you without concording unless you shoot them first. don't they usually bring RR backup? Had that happen only once. The cynnabal still popped fast. Aggroed and killed the neut/rr split domi afterwards. RR didn't seem to have any effect, or maybe it just seemed that way because the receiver was too flimsy. Is it a common tactic? Haven't noticed. Maybe they didn't have enough time to call for backup.
Target Painter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.07 05:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Goose99 Had that happen only once. The cynnabal still popped fast. Aggroed and killed the neut/rr split domi afterwards. RR didn't seem to have any effect, or maybe it just seemed that way because the receiver was too flimsy. Is it a common tactic? Haven't noticed. Maybe they didn't have enough time to call for backup. Or maybe he got outside of rep range, which is pretty easy to do witha Cynabal.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.02.07 05:37:00 - [25] Originally by: masternerdguy Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Goose99 Nowdays I only use Mach and Tengu for grinding missions. With pvp fit Mach/tengu, against the canes or cynnabals that are popular among griefers, outcome is predetermined. Due to mechanics, he can't bring in corpies, the griefer is alone, in a 1v1 loopsided to your favor. If he brings in corpies, and they flip cans, don't shoot them. Finish off the first, then kill them one by one. They can't shoot you without concording unless you shoot them first. don't they usually bring RR backup? If you lack honor you do. I just use this: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49813-Sleipnir-Mission-Hunter.html you speak of honor yet use ecm drones... tisk tisk!
Shereza	Posted - 2011.02.07 06:43:00 - [26] Some twit in a navy megathron was trying to grief a guy in my corporation who could barely fly his myrmidon so we decided to have a bit of fun with him. Someone brought a typhoon, another brought a punisher, and I brought an exequror. That bastard had an annoying tank on him, annoying enough that when he realized how in over his head he got he called in a blackbird which managed to jam me thereby resulting in the punisher which was tackling him dying and let him escape at 60% hull. Needless to say, an exequror with ECM drones is honor incarnate when taking on a mission griefer.
Misanthra	Posted - 2011.02.07 07:02:00 - [27] Don't give flippers kill rights. The dessie is bait, they have something better waiting to use with the kill rights you just gave them most times. Nothing in a can is worth the loss of your ship in empire (even mission items, standings are easy to get...they steal your damsel, have mission posted as a fail and fix standings again, much better option over losing a 150 mil for a bs). Mission items are sold on contracts all the time if that big a deal to you to not fail the mission. Mission hub is that bad, find a new one. Downgrade to next agent or find a new npc corp to run for in a different system. I used to run in the cesspool of eve known as motsu. Got tired of seeing vultures from more than 1 corp in my rooms....found a quieter place and wondered why I dealt with motsu for so long. May have gotten better...no desrire to return to find out.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.02.07 07:34:00 - [28] So after the asshats that apparently were born into this game with complete knowledge of the game mechanics and were never noobs themselfs.. or are just really angry, disgruntedly individuals with serious mental issues in rl.. you started to get some good advice in the thread. Two things, not sure if mentioned.. kinda breezed through the thread honestly.. 1 - Blow up your wrecks. Be sure they are your wrecks tho.. could be griefer, could just be ninja salvager. Reguardless.. give neither the satisfaction, and build the rep thats what you'll do, and they won't bother you again. Personally, if a ninja asks me.. I generally would let them salvage n leave'em alone. 2 - Get in a corp that will take care of you. Someone nabs your loot, whatever the intentions.. they become red and 'flagged' to everyone in your corp. Set it up just right tho.. don't scare the once predator-now-prey away. Have corpmates ready to warp to spot, or warp in via acc gate depending on mission pocket.. lead him to warp in point, shoot the griefer right before corpmate is likely to come out of warp.. you shooting him is going to draw his focus, and he may not take notice of the ships on screen/overview immediately, and is probably burning towards you instead of align out.. thus making it easy for corpmates to point before he flees. Bah.. lotta words, hope the tactic makes sense. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Shereza	Posted - 2011.02.07 09:11:00 - [29] Trying to ambush a griefer with your corporation is problematic at best. Any halfway intelligent griefer will get wary of the situation if more than one, maybe two, members of your corporation, including you, show up in local. What's more even if they decide to undock a smart griefer ought to set their directional scanner to 180 degrees, 90 would likely be much better, and 20-30kkm range just to make sure you don't have any buddies inside a pocket with you before he uses that accel. gate. At least those are two things I'd be considering were I the griefer. Granted one could work around this by using cloaking ships and waiting until the guy's clearly used the gate before decloaking, but that only really works if you're fast on the scanner/decloak and in a mission area without so much junk around that you can cloak while still within a useful range of the warp-in point. It's also an awful lot of work for a reward that would likely be small in the end. Getting your corporation to help you is a good idea, but the best help they could give you would probably be to send a noctis pilot your way if you really want/need the money/minerals/materials from the loot and salvage.
Vivian Ramasita	Posted - 2011.02.07 21:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Umega Personally, if a ninja asks me.. I generally would let them salvage n leave'em alone. Thanks for putting forward that thought. Whenever I drop in on someone's mission, I always make it a point to at least say hi. I'll also always target the mission-runner and do a ship/cargo scan -- NOT to see whether you have any juicy faction modules fit, but rather to determine if you're already salvaging and looting your mission or if you're just out for bounties and standing, as this has a direct impact on how much salvage I'm likely to get and tells me how hard I have to work to get it. I don't really want your ship. I really DO want your salvage. I need it. For my purposes! (I don't really NEED your loot, but I'll usually take that, too.) Regardless, abandoning your wrecks does two things: 1) If the ninja is really after your ship, he or she will leave immediately. 2) If the ninja is really just after your salvage, you'll have made a new friend. Remember, the ninja is the one sticking his or her neck out. Think about hugging that neck once in a while!
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:25:00 - [31] Always ignore the guy jumping in your mission and stealing crap loot. He's not there for the crap loot, he's only there to get your killmail, you're mission runner he's a killmails runner so, make him loose his time. Open chat with, let him say his blah blah, ask him if he needs some isk and tell him to go ahead and help him self cleaning your mess, close the window let him rage al alone but keep him next to you thus making him loose his precious time and killmails until he does the mistake that will cost his ship: Wait until he's at the respawn rats point if you are sure there will be scrams/webs, you'll get some of the funiest moment in your eve life seeing the guy cry for his muma wile rats blow his stuff, and mabe loot some good stuff on his wreck. Doesn't allways work but I cans assure you, I had great moments of laugh with those ones when they warp in my missions and sometimes loot more isk in theyr wreck then with all my rats loot/bountys.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.02.08 01:14:00 - [32] Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 08/02/2011 01:14:46 High sec griefers are the lowest form of life, but they do serve a good purpose: encouraging players to explore the thousands of other, generally unpopulated systems in EVE. Check out eve-agents.com and http://evemaps.dotlan.net/, and find somewhere ninjas either don't dare (lowsec, nullsec) or bother (anywhere but the same 5-10 mission hubs in highsec) tread. The EVE world is huge, so there's no reason to constrain yourself to a few tiny mission hubs unless you actually like it there. But if you do, there will be highsec griefers there, so understanding agression mechanics is mandatory.
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2011.02.08 02:05:00 - [33] Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 08/02/2011 02:07:38 Originally by: masternerdguy If you lack honor you do. I just use this: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49813-Sleipnir-Mission-Hunter.html "Honor" is an imaginary cultural construct that is terribly out of place in the land of internet spaceships. Edit: Woops, quoted the wrong person.
Schwa88 JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2011.02.08 06:35:00 - [34] Oh lawd they dun blowed up mah spaceships. Oh look, it's one of these threads again. - True story. I also have a blog!
Tyburn Stannis Caldari Xenon Salvage Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.08 14:01:00 - [35] If you're a month old player in a battlecruiser, that won't be helping your situation since you can sit in it but not really fly it properly. Support skills such as guns, shields, velocity and agility, energy grid etc etc - all tend to be more important than the ship itself. As for people in your missions, yeah it's a feature. All part of the sandbox... but contrary to some of the "experts" in this thread, not every single one of them wants to kill you (or try to). Quite a few will be happy salvaging, or salvaging and looting, and quite a few mission runners are happy to let them to do it - otherwise channels such as "free wrecks" wouldn't exist. Some will leave when red-boxed as the hassle of starting a lengthy fight is not as attractive as simply going to a different bookmark for more wrecks. Yes, there's people that feed on rage and tears (and some of them are hilarious as people blow a gasket over their space-pixles), and yes there's people who are trying to bait you into combat so they can come back in their pimp-mobile and get some feeling of internet superiority for blowing up a newbie (when you're taking on a four-year old mission runner in a faction fit boat it's a different game.) But some of us are honest thieves, just happy stealing expensive cheese from mouse-traps and scuttling back to the hole in the skirting board :)
Raging Ronin	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:19:00 - [36] Hi folks. Been following this thread with interest as the same thing happened to me yesterday. Despite playing on and off for years, I wasn't aware that it was even possible to enter someone else's missions in deadspace. (Yes, really. Probably sounds dumb to you.) I thought they were instanced. I've played solo 75 % of my time in Eve which, as you know, is very hard and also, you don't learn as fast due to not talking to lots of ppl regularly. Yesterday I therefor in pure panic locked target on someone who entered, making me loose about 250 mill's worth of uninsured ISK or around 75 % of all my money. Before you call me names, it's simple really: if you don't expect someone else there, you only fit for pve and the mission (of which I was in total control). I was not prepared for a pvp fitted HAC... I haven't decided whether to quit playing or not; it was really a devastating blow for me who was just starting to get back on my feet, not having played for over a year. No easy way of getting that kind of ISK back for someone soloing either. So basically, to be sure if I chose to go on: if I don't lock or fire at someone, they can't kill me? Or atleast, if they do, Concord will get there? I'm in Brutor Tribe and not at was with someone I know. He came in as red immediately - what does that mean in terms of war, kill rights et.c.? Sincerely, RR a.k.a. Thomas, Sweden
Maverick2011	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:49:00 - [37] Man i feel your loss, despite everyone here might make fun of you and say stupid things, i fell for this also but i was very lucky. The imbeciles decided to pop my destroyer in 0.4 which taught me to NEVER, EVER do missions in low sec from BC and up. Also I learned that if you are in High sec you should NEVER fire at someone stealing your stuff. That's what they want you to do so they can kill you without concord killing them. Another MUST rule of any mission runner: If you are in deadspace and your paying attention to your overview as you ALWAYS should, should ANYONE enter in it he wants to kill you. So if you see ANYONE joining your deadspace, warp to the first place you can and then to your dock. About your problem, man CCP allow griefers to do this to you, you know what is the best answer? Unsubscribe. If all players that are griefed unsubscribed CCP would realize they had to change the game mechanics somehow. Just unsubscribe and find a game that don't stress you. We pay games to have fun, not to deal with society rejects. Put that in your mind and give CCP that answer. If that happens to me as well, ill unsubscribe right away. Its only CCP who loses by this decision, not you. You can always move on to other games, CCP lives from this game, remember this. Money is all they want. If people start to stop feeding the griefers and leave, griefers will leave too since they don't have balls to face PVP players. PVP players without targets will probably leave as well looking for another sandbox. So if CCP allows such things, hurt them where they care most. The wallet.
IoWalker	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:27:00 - [38] I feel a huge influx of Officer-Named Ship PlayerNames.
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Raging Ronin He came in as red immediately - what does that mean in terms of war, kill rights et.c.? Sincerely, RR a.k.a. Thomas, Sweden Don't quit. Just remember never to shoot anyone in high sec and always make sure you take from your own wrecks and not from someone else's by mistake. There's plenty of ass-hattery in Eve, but 95% of it can easily be avoided. Take it from me. Learning the hard way since 2003 .
Marcus Demitri	Posted - 2011.04.02 16:43:00 - [40] Lol what do you expect CCP to change as far as mechanics? These players can't kill you unless you let them (without sacrificing themselves ofc; but this thread isn't about suicide ganking). This is a horrible reason to unsubscribe. A good reason to unsubscribe is that you don't appreciate the freedom and majesty of a limitless gaming world. In which case there are plenty of treadmill MMOs out there for you to run on...errr...I mean enjoy. If you don't like challenge and complexity, I hear Hello Kitty Adventure Island is a quality experience.
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.04.02 16:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Marcus Demitri If you don't like challenge and complexity, I hear Hello Kitty Adventure Island is a quality experience. I'm guessing that probably sounded quite witty in your head.
ThirdEyeBlenny	Posted - 2011.04.02 18:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Marcus Demitri Lol what do you expect CCP to change as far as mechanics? These players can't kill you unless you let them (without sacrificing themselves ofc; but this thread isn't about suicide ganking). This is a horrible reason to unsubscribe. A good reason to unsubscribe is that you don't appreciate the freedom and majesty of a limitless gaming world. In which case there are plenty of treadmill MMOs out there for you to run on...errr...I mean enjoy. If you don't like challenge and complexity, I hear Hello Kitty Adventure Island is a quality experience. You appear to be under the delusion that the enjoyment of a game like eve, and the enjoyment of other more linear MMOs, is mutually exclusive. Oh yeah, and that hello kitty thing, as the previous poster argues correctly, doesn't win you any street cred. I didn't think it was cool the first time I heard it, and it gets used a lot...
Raging Ronin	Posted - 2011.04.02 19:11:00 - [43] Wow. I'd never hoped for that kind of sympathy. Thanks, really. Guess politeness and common decency runs deeper in here than in the chat channels, where people last night were at level with Marcus - at best. Didn't mention it before, but my mission was in 0.8. Marcus: even if I dislike the mechanic of you not being safe, ever, no matter what style of gameplay you favor, that's not my main issue. What disturbs me the most is that you're expected to know everything about the game. In a game so complex as Eve, if there's something you lack, you lose. That's not very sympathetic, neither is it welcoming to new players. I've been playing mostly solo on and off for years, and simply didn't know other people could come into your missions. That cost me most ISK I had. That is not deep or complex gameplay, that's borderline sadistic. The learning curve is horrible, tutorials don't give enough and the game almost forces you to play in a corp. In a game where almost all boasts about its freedom, that doesn't rhyme very well in my opinion. That's constricted freedom. The game could be what it is and much more if they'd open their arms just a tad more, not holding hands but rather guide or tutor you better. I work with games and I've played games since 30 years back. I'm no game noob, I'm just someone who advocates quality. Eve has lots of that but most definately lacks in certain areas as well. That's also partly why the game isn't bigger than it is. Hello Kitty! Oh, how witty and quick of you to pick that up. That's the first time I've heard that! No really, you crack me up! Now run along, your mama's calling, it's past your bedtime.

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