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Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2011.02.06 14:02:00 -
[1]
Current logoff mechanics do not encourage small gang PvP. Here are two common situations where logoff mechanics are exploited to avoid PvP, and their very simple solutions:
1) A ship jumps into a small hostile fleet. The pilot immediately logs out. Current mechanics will decloak the ship and the ship will immediately attempt to warp out. If the ship is tackled, the hostile gang has about 60 seconds to kill it before it magically dissapears. Any decently tanked ship can survive a small gang. If the ship is agressed but not tackled, the ship warps to a safespot and dissapears after about 60 seconds.
Solution: if a ship is agressed while trying to emergency warp (which follows any logoff), that ship is now agressed and will remain in system for 15 minutes, either on grid (if tackled) or at its emergency warp spot (if untackled).
2) A pilot is ratting in a belt or anomaly. A hostile ship enters the system. The ratting pilot logs out, the ship immediately warps off and then dissapears. This leads to no-risk ratting.
Solution: following logoff, any ship that has recently agressed NPC's will warp out to a safe spot (as with the current mechanics) but then remain in space for a short time (3-5 minutes). If, during that time, the ship is agressed in its safespot, the normal 15 minute aggro timer begins.
Please CCP, the current logoff mechanics are broken. These changes would increase ship loss only for pilots trying to avoid PvP by exploiting the current mechanics.
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Grace Wing
Gallente Duane Barry Fan Club
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Posted - 2011.02.06 16:01:00 -
[2]
While I do agree with you, it's still a bummer for the people who log off due to connection or computer issues. I know it's a bit far fetched considering connection problem for most people are rare, but if they do happen for some reason they always happen at the worst time possible.
I'd say give the ship 15 minutes to log back in. By then he should have rebooted his router/PC. If the person doesn't log in, his ship magically reappears back where it originally logged off (if it indeed was aggressed) and stays there for another 15 minutes before vanishing.
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Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Grace Wing While I do agree with you, it's still a bummer for the people who log off due to connection or computer issues. I know it's a bit far fetched considering connection problem for most people are rare, but if they do happen for some reason they always happen at the worst time possible.
I'd say give the ship 15 minutes to log back in. By then he should have rebooted his router/PC. If the person doesn't log in, his ship magically reappears back where it originally logged off (if it indeed was aggressed) and stays there for another 15 minutes before vanishing.
That's the good part...these changes would affect only those people who log to avoid PvP (i.e. exploit the current mechanics). In all but a few very rare circumstances, people that have legitimate connection issues would be fine and safe.
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:35:00 -
[4]
The probability of random disconnection happening within 10 seconds after jumping into new system that has a hostile gate camp is very low, I'd say less that 0.1%
Therefore, it is safe to assume that any disconnection in that specific case is purposeful, not random.
We should not punish 99.9% of people by denying them kills in favor of 0.1% who happened to have genuine problem.
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.07 03:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ephemeron The probability of random disconnection happening within 10 seconds after jumping into new system that has a hostile gate camp is very low, I'd say less that 0.1%
Therefore, it is safe to assume that any disconnection in that specific case is purposeful, not random.
We should not punish 99.9% of people by denying them kills in favor of 0.1% who happened to have genuine problem.
LOL? And the mac client bug that made you crash every gate jump after this past expansion? Sometimes, it's CCP's fault that people crash.
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.07 04:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Ephemeron The probability of random disconnection happening within 10 seconds after jumping into new system that has a hostile gate camp is very low, I'd say less that 0.1%
Therefore, it is safe to assume that any disconnection in that specific case is purposeful, not random.
We should not punish 99.9% of people by denying them kills in favor of 0.1% who happened to have genuine problem.
LOL? And the mac client bug that made you crash every gate jump after this past expansion? Sometimes, it's CCP's fault that people crash.
Ok, fix the Mac bug, then implement this feature. Satisfied?
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A Lunchbox
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Posted - 2011.02.07 11:23:00 -
[7]
The very simple solution to problems such as this has been used in other games for quite a while now. A 15-30 second logoff timer while actively in space (possibly even tied to the emergency warp mechanic) wouldn't be very far fetched, and would also make sure that legit disconnections would be handled exactly the same way they are now.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: A Lunchbox The very simple solution to problems such as this has been used in other games for quite a while now. A 15-30 second logoff timer while actively in space (possibly even tied to the emergency warp mechanic) wouldn't be very far fetched, and would also make sure that legit disconnections would be handled exactly the same way they are now.
You realize that's what we have now, right? You disconnect (or log out) and your ship tries to warp away to a safe spot, where it hangs for 30 (or 60?) seconds before vanishing into the ether. Unless you're inside a POS shield, in which case it just hangs there in the forcefield until the timer expires and vanishes. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.02.07 15:15:00 -
[9]
agreed, the logoffski mechanics are highly broken currently and needs a fix.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.07 18:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: A Lunchbox The very simple solution to problems such as this has been used in other games for quite a while now. A 15-30 second logoff timer while actively in space (possibly even tied to the emergency warp mechanic) wouldn't be very far fetched, and would also make sure that legit disconnections would be handled exactly the same way they are now.
You realize that's what we have now, right? You disconnect (or log out) and your ship tries to warp away to a safe spot, where it hangs for 30 (or 60?) seconds before vanishing into the ether. Unless you're inside a POS shield, in which case it just hangs there in the forcefield until the timer expires and vanishes.
My ships never stay inside the POS forcefield.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.07 20:17:00 -
[11]
Another "OMG my ePeen enhancing mail!" thread, has it been 24 hours already? 
Originally by: Ephemeron ...
In a perfect world where all ISP's have the same standards and 99.999% network uptime plus the various long distance cables all function with minimal latency ... Since that world only exists in the ISP's marketing departments it is safe to assume that any such probability is in fact considerably higher.
I am getting roughly 20% disconnects on gridloads from warp in busy low-sec systems (ie. more than 20 people). Close to 10% on gridload when jumping a gate together with a gang, less when alone.
So yeah, lets give special privileges to people with RL cash to burn on fibre or who lives near the servers. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Another "OMG my ePeen enhancing mail!" thread, has it been 24 hours already? 
Originally by: Ephemeron ...
In a perfect world where all ISP's have the same standards and 99.999% network uptime plus the various long distance cables all function with minimal latency ... Since that world only exists in the ISP's marketing departments it is safe to assume that any such probability is in fact considerably higher.
I am getting roughly 20% disconnects on gridloads from warp in busy low-sec systems (ie. more than 20 people). Close to 10% on gridload when jumping a gate together with a gang, less when alone.
So yeah, lets give special privileges to people with RL cash to burn on fibre or who lives near the servers. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
20%, wow.. you must have a really bad ISP. however, I dont support stupid gamerules because of people living in the bush or taking the cheapest ISP, its actually your problem, not of others.
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:12:00 -
[13]
I personally experienced many disconnects over the years. Most of them happened when I was farming NPCs or warping between gates without hostiles, sometimes it happened when I was camping a gate, no hostiles.
A few times I got disconnects during actual combat. One of such losses was reimbursed.
I never had a disconnect that happened as soon as I jumped into a hostile gate camp. Sure, that could be just luck. But it also shows probability. 6 years of playing, not a single disconnect right after jumping into gate camp.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Robert Caldera however, I dont support stupid gamerules because of people living in the bush or taking the cheapest ISP, its actually your problem, not of others.
So when? Is it enough when a five hundred man fleet is wiped out due to lagging out on jump, instead of "just" some as it is now? How about a hundred? Fifty? Ten?
You can take your uppity holier-than-thou and stick it ..
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: A Lunchbox The very simple solution to problems such as this has been used in other games for quite a while now. A 15-30 second logoff timer while actively in space (possibly even tied to the emergency warp mechanic) wouldn't be very far fetched, and would also make sure that legit disconnections would be handled exactly the same way they are now.
You realize that's what we have now, right? You disconnect (or log out) and your ship tries to warp away to a safe spot, where it hangs for 30 (or 60?) seconds before vanishing into the ether. Unless you're inside a POS shield, in which case it just hangs there in the forcefield until the timer expires and vanishes.
My ships never stay inside the POS forcefield.
Actually it does. It is moved to a safe spot when you log back in, which is why you warp back to the POS, but if you watch someone log out while inside the POS shield they never warp away. They just vanish. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:13:00 -
[16]
Wait wait people lets back up.
Original problem: Log off = easy escape for people at gate camps...60 seconds and they vanish
Obviouse solution: Learn how to gate camp properly, with no return fire or active mods, there's no way any ship in eve would last 60 seconds in one of my gatecamps. They're supposed to be ambushes, and if you dont bring enough DPS to...well...ambush, then YOU have failed.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I have been at gatecamps where some ships have slipped by. We fixed this problem ouselves, however, by brining faster tackle!
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Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: NinjaSpud Wait wait people lets back up.
Original problem: Log off = easy escape for people at gate camps...60 seconds and they vanish
Obviouse solution: Learn how to gate camp properly, with no return fire or active mods, there's no way any ship in eve would last 60 seconds in one of my gatecamps. They're supposed to be ambushes, and if you dont bring enough DPS to...well...ambush, then YOU have failed.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I have been at gatecamps where some ships have slipped by. We fixed this problem ouselves, however, by brining faster tackle!
You missed the point of the post...the title mentions small gang pvp (something like 2-5 ships). "Bring more people" is an utterly stupid and ignorant response to the problems I stated. The point is with current logoff mechanics, you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
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Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Robert Caldera however, I dont support stupid gamerules because of people living in the bush or taking the cheapest ISP, its actually your problem, not of others.
So when? Is it enough when a five hundred man fleet is wiped out due to lagging out on jump, instead of "just" some as it is now? How about a hundred? Fifty? Ten?
You can take your uppity holier-than-thou and stick it ..
My proposed changes wouldn't affect this. Also, if you are crashing in high sec, my changes would have no impact on you. If you are legitimately crashing a lot in low sec or 0.0 space, then yes, my proposed changes may slightly increase the chance of getting you killed. But as was stated, if you are crashing a lot, you shouldn't venture into dangerous space. Sort out your ISP/hardware/software issues.
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito Edited by: Takakura Hirohito on 07/02/2011 23:21:03
Originally by: NinjaSpud Wait wait people lets back up.
Original problem: Log off = easy escape for people at gate camps...60 seconds and they vanish
Obviouse solution: Learn how to gate camp properly, with no return fire or active mods, there's no way any ship in eve would last 60 seconds in one of my gatecamps. They're supposed to be ambushes, and if you dont bring enough DPS to...well...ambush, then YOU have failed.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I have been at gatecamps where some ships have slipped by. We fixed this problem ouselves, however, by brining faster tackle!
You missed the point of the post...the title mentions small gang pvp (something like 2-5 ships). "Bring more people (i.e. dps)" is an utterly stupid and ignorant response to the problems I stated. The point is with current logoff mechanics, you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
I think you missed the point of his post.... it being that these "problems" are not really problems.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:02:00 -
[20]
When I first tarted playing Eve, I was enraged by the idea of log off tactics.
After a few years of learning on CCP works, and partaking in large epic scale fleet battles, I really have sympathy for the disconnect argument.
In my anecdotal experience, I'd say that a large percent of the times I have experienced a disconnect in Eve Online has been directly after jumping through a gate, and having the system fail to load on the other side.
Now, I'd also point out that good percent (I have no idea how much exactly, but I think we can all agree here) of pvp in Eve takes place on gate grids.
The two together do not make good bed partners.
I'll fully support any well thought out change that nerfs the ability to log off from perceived threats, but does not punish legitimate server disconnects. The problem is, I'm not sure if such a solution exists.
Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: A Lunchbox The very simple solution to problems such as this has been used in other games for quite a while now. A 15-30 second logoff timer while actively in space (possibly even tied to the emergency warp mechanic) wouldn't be very far fetched, and would also make sure that legit disconnections would be handled exactly the same way they are now.
You realize that's what we have now, right? You disconnect (or log out) and your ship tries to warp away to a safe spot, where it hangs for 30 (or 60?) seconds before vanishing into the ether. Unless you're inside a POS shield, in which case it just hangs there in the forcefield until the timer expires and vanishes.
My ships never stay inside the POS forcefield.
Actually it does. It is moved to a safe spot when you log back in, which is why you warp back to the POS, but if you watch someone log out while inside the POS shield they never warp away. They just vanish.
Really, that seems silly to me. Why not just log back in where you logged out? Good thing to know though.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |

Monte Shill
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito You missed the point of the post...the title mentions small gang pvp (something like 2-5 ships). "Bring more people (i.e. dps)" is an utterly stupid and ignorant response to the problems I stated. The point is with current logoff mechanics, you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
Then it means you have a second chance at it when he logs back in, as you are actually camping the gate with the intended purpose of not leaving it for an extended time peroid. Otherwise, he won't be doing a damn thing for several hours. If he logs back in, blow him up or if he doesn't come back in its no different then getting camped in station and he isn't doing anything but station spinning, shoot the next target that comes through or go roaming.
I tried the log off trick last week in an industrial, didn't want to be present as I was 99% certain of the outcome and 1% chance I might get away. Logged back in to my pod and the basement rat spouting the "logofski is pro" in local that has become cliche, yet the basement rat got the kill. He still gets his cake and has to try to get the last laugh, but inside he was crying that I would stoop to such a low trick that failed . I would fit warp stabs to my ships, but I dislike the penalty they have for being passive and would rather they be active protection vs scrams/disrupts and penalize while turned on (think like MWD with the sig bloom), would give up a DC over it.
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A Lunchbox
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Posted - 2011.02.08 03:49:00 -
[23]
You realize that's what we have now, right? You disconnect (or log out) and your ship tries to warp away to a safe spot, where it hangs for 30 (or 60?) seconds before vanishing into the ether. Unless you're inside a POS shield, in which case it just hangs there in the forcefield until the timer expires and vanishes.
What I really meant is, instead of hitting the "log off" or "quit game" button and it happening immediately (while in space), you would actually have to sit there and watch your ship e-warp off until it's safe. Without leaving the client. The current timers do not do this.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.02.08 09:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito But as was stated, if you are crashing a lot, you shouldn't venture into dangerous space. Sort out your ISP/hardware/software issues.
this!
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Savatar Mei
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Posted - 2011.02.08 11:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ephemeron The probability of random disconnection happening within 10 seconds after jumping into new system that has a hostile gate camp is very low, I'd say less that 0.1%
Therefore, it is safe to assume that any disconnection in that specific case is purposeful, not random.
We should not punish 99.9% of people by denying them kills in favor of 0.1% who happened to have genuine problem.
the eve client handles tcp/ip errors rather badly. disconnections after each session change were constant for me, with aroudn 5 every 15 mins. it was so bad i couldnt go into low sec...and happened once as i came out of warp running from a gate camp. i disconnected as they landed 100km away from me at the target location....
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.08 12:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito .. you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
Five properly fitted frigates will deal 40-50k damage in one minute. You might want to revise your fits if you are not able to drop a ratter after a jump (ie. no DCU or hardeners active). If he takes the time to decloak to activate modules then he gets the timer since he is "online" at the time of aggression in which case your change is unnecessary.
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito My proposed changes wouldn't affect this...
How can it not affect the null lag-fests? If all ships get a 15 minutes timer on jump-in .. or do you propose that bubbles not count as tackle for this purpose or perhaps it is dependent on lag-outs being solved in the near future?
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito Sort out your ISP/hardware/software issues.
Again with the elitist crap. Sorry if you miss a mail once a week but to ask CCP to ruin the game for hundreds if not thousands just because you are too damn bad at fitting for damage, tackling, probing etc. is ridiculous.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 08/02/2011 19:01:14
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito Edited by: Takakura Hirohito on 07/02/2011 23:21:03
Originally by: NinjaSpud Wait wait people lets back up.
Original problem: Log off = easy escape for people at gate camps...60 seconds and they vanish
Obviouse solution: Learn how to gate camp properly, with no return fire or active mods, there's no way any ship in eve would last 60 seconds in one of my gatecamps. They're supposed to be ambushes, and if you dont bring enough DPS to...well...ambush, then YOU have failed.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I have been at gatecamps where some ships have slipped by. We fixed this problem ouselves, however, by brining faster tackle!
You missed the point of the post...the title mentions small gang pvp (something like 2-5 ships). "Bring more people (i.e. dps)" is an utterly stupid and ignorant response to the problems I stated. The point is with current logoff mechanics, you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
No, you missed the point of my responce
Ever heard of fleet compisition? even several high dps ships will not get kills if they dont bring small-fast tackle to said gate camp.
without starting a troll-a-thon, let me re-phrase my statement.
IF you are trying to take out a high tank battleship with 2 frigs, well your problem is obviouse there. Even a couple of dps fit battlecruisers would have to wear down a tanked battleship. If you wanna kill the big fish, bring the big harpoon gun, not the fly rod.
If you're using a 5 man fleet, there's no reason why you shoulnd't be able to kill a battleship...here's a magical formula for you. 1-2 ships tackle, 3-4 ships shoot. If you're using well armed battlecruisers (popular for gatecamps) then 60 seconds is more then enough time to take down a ship that isn't shooting back. I'm saying your problem is your gate camp stratagy...learn how to ambush correctally and you will have more kills.
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Rugs
Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Rugs on 08/02/2011 19:03:35 Well to be honest, I'm ok with people disconnecting, what often annoys me is that people jump back and are able to log off and disappear after 60 seconds even though they got aggroed on the other side just seconds ago and they jumped back just to log off because they know most of the DPS is aggroed as long as it takes for the dude's ship to disappear.
It used to be: 15 min aggro if getting aggro, time is reset after every jump to 15 minutes if the player does not wait out the 15 minutes in one solar system, fair I'd say.
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Khamiz
Catholic School for Boys
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Posted - 2011.02.09 03:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NinjaSpud
If you're using a 5 man fleet, there's no reason why you shoulnd't be able to kill a battleship...here's a magical formula for you. 1-2 ships tackle, 3-4 ships shoot. If you're using well armed battlecruisers (popular for gatecamps) then 60 seconds is more then enough time to take down a ship that isn't shooting back. I'm saying your problem is your gate camp stratagy...learn how to ambush correctally and you will have more kills.
Agreed. If your "small fleet" can't kill an offline target within 60s, your "gatecamp" doesn't deserve that kill anyway. DCing to avoid PvP may not be "fair" towards you, but since when is Eve about fairness ? If it was, we wouldn't be gatecamping to being with 
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Ronald Raygunn
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Posted - 2011.02.09 05:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito Edited by: Takakura Hirohito on 07/02/2011 23:21:03
Originally by: NinjaSpud Wait wait people lets back up.
Original problem: Log off = easy escape for people at gate camps...60 seconds and they vanish
Obviouse solution: Learn how to gate camp properly, with no return fire or active mods, there's no way any ship in eve would last 60 seconds in one of my gatecamps. They're supposed to be ambushes, and if you dont bring enough DPS to...well...ambush, then YOU have failed.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I have been at gatecamps where some ships have slipped by. We fixed this problem ouselves, however, by brining faster tackle!
You missed the point of the post...the title mentions small gang pvp (something like 2-5 ships). "Bring more people (i.e. dps)" is an utterly stupid and ignorant response to the problems I stated. The point is with current logoff mechanics, you can't kill something like a ratting BS if it jumps into a small gate camp and logs. Even if you tackle it.
Actually, i think he nailed it right on the head. When I have been caught by gatecamps, in 60 seconds I am toast. Granted, they weren't BS's or anything, but still, the point is valid. Being on the ambushers side, you either got them pointed and poofied, or you waited for the next target to come through. Yeah, it's a sucky thing to have someone logoffski on you, but this smacks of gankbear tears.
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Vayna Miychovich
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.09 12:57:00 -
[31]
Everyone is talking about logging at these gatecamps which is stupid because your gatecamp is borked if they do get away.
Logging off in space currently has 2 functions:
A Planned function: Your done for the day and want to quit the game. A Reactive function: You find yourself in an undesirable situation in-game and logging off is a way to get out safely.
The Reactive function causes the concerns within the player base as these are mostly PVP related and are seen as an unfair game mechanic. By introducing a shutdown procedure of the vessel of say 2min before you can log-off, the reactive function gets disabled. Eg. the reason people log in a situation is because it allows them to get away, logging now with a 2min shut-down procedure will only surely get them killed.
People planning to log-off in space will hardly mind the 2min extra as you can plan it and go somewhere safe, logging in station will be direct as the ships shutdown procedure has already been completed.
Positive side-effect: Less botting! CCP wants to disable botting but is currently on a crusade of their own against players involved. By giving players the means to kill these bots the playerbase of EVE and CCP can work together to eliminate farmers. PVP'ers would love to kill these bots, but we all know that the biggest weapon these scripts create against PVP'ers is the log functionality when a neutral or red enters local. The shutdown procedure would eliminate this defense mechanism and level the playing field again.
Vayna. NED-Clan Meer dan een corp! |

Recursa Recursion
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Posted - 2011.02.09 18:00:00 -
[32]
Amen. The logoffski is what makes much of the botting viable. I would even go so far as to say that the 15 minute aggro timer applies to NPCs or mining lasers but that might be a bit harsh.
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Licinius CrassusFilius
Space Construction and Research
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Posted - 2011.02.10 01:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vayna Miychovich Everyone is talking about logging at these gatecamps which is stupid because your gatecamp is borked if they do get away.
Logging off in space currently has 2 functions:
A Planned function: Your done for the day and want to quit the game. A Reactive function: You find yourself in an undesirable situation in-game and logging off is a way to get out safely.
The Reactive function causes the concerns within the player base as these are mostly PVP related and are seen as an unfair game mechanic. By introducing a shutdown procedure of the vessel of say 2min before you can log-off, the reactive function gets disabled. Eg. the reason people log in a situation is because it allows them to get away, logging now with a 2min shut-down procedure will only surely get them killed.
People planning to log-off in space will hardly mind the 2min extra as you can plan it and go somewhere safe, logging in station will be direct as the ships shutdown procedure has already been completed.
Positive side-effect: Less botting! CCP wants to disable botting but is currently on a crusade of their own against players involved. By giving players the means to kill these bots the playerbase of EVE and CCP can work together to eliminate farmers. PVP'ers would love to kill these bots, but we all know that the biggest weapon these scripts create against PVP'ers is the log functionality when a neutral or red enters local. The shutdown procedure would eliminate this defense mechanism and level the playing field again.
Vayna.
Your planned timer (2 minutes) wouldn't work. If I log off in a safe in system and my ship is just hanging there for two minutes, any halfway decent gang with combat probes would find me and kill me, particularly in smaller systems.
60 seconds is a long time. I echo the comment that if you can't kill something in that time while it is just hanging there, you didn't deserve to kill it in the first place.
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Recursa Recursion
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:27:00 -
[34]
If you have a cloak or at a POS, there is no problem with a longer timer provided said cloak stayed on during your cool down.
For instance, even in the case of the 2 minute timer, the small gang would need to have jumped into the system nearly immediately after you logged. That would likely be followed by some quick D scanning and then probing. Without a spy, most gangs would have a tough time scanning you down that quickly. Not impossible but highly, highly unlikely.
The additional time just means come prepared. Either have a POS shield to hide under or pack a cloak. Pretty simple.
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:10:00 -
[35]
What if you disconnect while missioning ? Do your 1 Bil isk marauder hang out in front of rat swarm for 2 mins before E-Warp activates? 
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zephris What if you disconnect while missioning ? Do your 1 Bil isk marauder hang out in front of rat swarm for 2 mins before E-Warp activates? 
those ships perma tank all the spawns - unless you are a noob, in which case you have no business flying Marauder in the first place
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Frank Shitlitz
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Zephris What if you disconnect while missioning ? Do your 1 Bil isk marauder hang out in front of rat swarm for 2 mins before E-Warp activates? 
those ships perma tank all the spawns - unless you are a noob, in which case you have no business flying Marauder in the first place
Wait, so now running the most gank and least tank is noob and perma-running setups are pr0? FML I am doing it wrong again!
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Vayna Miychovich
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.11 11:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Licinius CrassusFilius Your planned timer (2 minutes) wouldn't work. If I log off in a safe in system and my ship is just hanging there for two minutes, any halfway decent gang with combat probes would find me and kill me, particularly in smaller systems.
60 seconds is a long time. I echo the comment that if you can't kill something in that time while it is just hanging there, you didn't deserve to kill it in the first place.
Lets assume that the shutdown procedure works the same way as the selfdestruct procedure currently in game. You activate it and the timer will run, you can watch local, your surroundings and even chat and mail all you like to keep yourself busy. If needed you can abort the procedure and warp-off/ activate modules. If you hardquit the game you will take a risk as stated by yourself because you know your ship will hang in open space for 2min as it goes through the shutdown procedure. This risk can ofcourse be lowered if hardquiting in a POS.
For the other game mechanics it won't be different whether your in shutdown or just flying around, timers after the shutdown will remain the same including agro. It is only there to prevent people from exploiting these timers. These timers are crucial as 60sec might not be long to kill a frigate, but are an instant when trying to gank a logoffski PVE carrier.
NED-Clan Meer dan een corp! |

Vayna Miychovich
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.11 12:02:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Vayna Miychovich on 11/02/2011 12:02:59
Originally by: Zephris What if you disconnect while missioning ? Do your 1 Bil isk marauder hang out in front of rat swarm for 2 mins before E-Warp activates? 
It is impossible to write game mechanics which can distinguish between exploits and technical failures. As much as it is, take your loss. If you can't afford it, don't fly it and if it happens a lot please think about revising your technical infrastructure at home or changing your provider. On a personal level, the next time I disconnect in battle my router will fly out the window as I know myself that this is a weakpoint.
If the disconnect is planned then warp-off to a safe, initiate shutdown wait 2min and quit EVE.
edit: If server side related --> petition. NED-Clan Meer dan een corp! |

Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2011.02.11 13:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zephris What if you disconnect while missioning ? Do your 1 Bil isk marauder hang out in front of rat swarm for 2 mins before E-Warp activates? 
My proposal states that in this case, you would immediately warp to a safe spot and remain there for 3-5 minutes before dissapearing. Current mechanics are that you immediately warp to a safe spot and dissapear after 30-60 seconds. The couple of extra minutes gives a PvPer time to probe you down, and if you are agressed in your safe spot, the 15 minute aggro timer starts, so you will stick around for an extra 15 minutes.
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Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.11 14:56:00 -
[41]
Mmmm, pirate whine for not getting their pew-pew... delicious! ^____^ What Needs To Be Done: - remove insurance payouts for concord kills - make wardec price both high and dynamic |

Vayna Miychovich
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.11 15:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga Mmmm, pirate whine for not getting their pew-pew... delicious! ^____^
If your roid would log when the beams locked onto it, you would whine aswell. ^^ NED-Clan Meer dan een corp! |

Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Vayna Miychovich If your roid would log when the beams locked onto it, you would whine aswell. ^^
Nah, I won't. I do planets. No point in mining during a gankathon anyway. What Needs To Be Done: - remove insurance payouts for concord kills - make wardec price both high and dynamic |
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