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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:50:00 -
[1]
there are a couple of long threads discussing the subpar performance of hybrids. the community is in a consensus that rails and blasters are extremely underpowered compared to all the other races' weapons (on cruiser and up ships).
i am concerned because the devs seemed baffled by the CSM feedback on hybrids. the gallente threads are gonna keep popping up and growing. just wondering if anything is on the drawing board for hybrid re-balancing.
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Illwill Bill
Noxious Intention
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:53:00 -
[2]
Blasters could use some tracking improvements.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
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Chandaris
Gallente Lethal Devotion
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Posted - 2011.02.10 14:52:00 -
[3]
yea hybrids suck.. too bad i trained them all up to 5 before i understood the mechanics of the game..
please do something about this ccp
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lain Umi there are a couple of long threads discussing the subpar performance of hybrids. the community is in a consensus that rails and blasters are extremely underpowered compared to all the other races' weapons (on cruiser and up ships).
i am concerned because the devs seemed baffled by the CSM feedback on hybrids. the gallente threads are gonna keep popping up and growing. just wondering if anything is on the drawing board for hybrid re-balancing.
Hybrids are geting some unidentified "knockback" effect bringing useless discussions with prepared answers and no real solutions. Because the whole stuff ships/hybrids (gallente but also caldari) need to get a close look in to, and this means time that mabe dev's teams don't have in their agenda. And has you'll not see any junior dev' take the time to read all the serious feedback from now over 2 years and take some decisions, like just posting "we're aware that some minor problems blahblahblah", you're not ready to see any changes since you will crosstrain no matter how longuer the issue will stand, so do it right now and stop loosing your time to make it simple.
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:24:00 -
[5]
Not sure we need homogeneous weapon types thanks.
1 - alpha = good (Projectiles) 1 - optimal range = good (Crystals) 1 - dps (you have to fire for over 60 seconds to average this out) = good (Hybrids) 1 - tracking = 100% every time (Missiles)
Pick your desired weapon type go go go
Hoppit!
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Miagi Sans
Amarr PURgE-Corp PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:26:00 -
[6]
Its not the turrets, its the ships using the turrets. They need more bonus which compliment the hybrid turrets, like webbing or mwd bonuses.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Spurty Not sure we need homogeneous weapon types thanks.
1 - alpha = good (Projectiles) 1 - optimal range = good (Crystals) 1 - dps (you have to fire for over 60 seconds to average this out) = good (Hybrids) 1 - tracking = 100% every time (Missiles)
Pick your desired weapon type go go go
Fix should be
Missiles 10 to 100 % every time and it does not matter how you maneuver. Really the only good missiles are heavys.
So please do not spread the 100 % tracking crap Pod |
Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.10 16:42:00 -
[8]
dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
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Lord EmBra
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 17:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Orion GUardian dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
1, if you are going to compare the rokh against an amarr ship it should be the apocalypse since they have the same role in a fleet. 2, don't compare a longrange weaponsystem against a short range one.
So if you are going to compare hybrids and lasers, then use a similar ship and weapon type, not the complete opposite in all aspects.
With this said, blasterboats need some useful bonuses, or better up, faster base speed/agility.
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Zyx Shewma
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Posted - 2011.02.10 17:25:00 -
[10]
Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:22:00 -
[11]
The problem with blasters is not in the blasters themselves, but in the fact that blaster boats can't get into a position to be able to effectively use their blasters. To support this, look back to the "blaster nerf". IIRC, the actual nerfing wasn't on the blasters themselves, but on MWDs and webs. Blaster boats used MWDs to get into range, then webbed and pointed their victim. But now webs are only half as effective as they once were, and MWDs are shut down by scramblers. End result: blaster boats can't use MWDs to get all the way into range, and even if the blaster boat DOES get into range, webs aren't powerful enough to STAY in range.
The second part of the "hybrid" problem are railguns. The main issue here is that long range sniping really doesn't have a purpose in modern EVE warfare. Probes can lock down snipers in mere seconds, sniping battleships can't pin their targets down and they lack the DPS to break a spider tank at all. At least artillery has enough alpha strike to potentially pop someone before they can receive reps. But rail guns really lack any "oomph" at all. To make matters worse, beam lasers still have enough range to fit the sniping role but have FAR superior DPS over railguns. It is rather ironic that once the Rokh was introduced, players thought that it would become the defacto standard for sniping. How wrong we were. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
gallente drone boats have drone bonuses and caldari have no drone boats but they have hybrid boats.
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Space Tarantula Haklar
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Space Tarantula Haklar on 10/02/2011 18:46:04 Edited by: Space Tarantula Haklar on 10/02/2011 18:45:11
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Maybe because the thread was about Hybrids, just sayin
But
Me not very much likey drones... But that's Ok, drones seems don't likey me much neither : when me telling drone "hey, don't you see, you gettin shot! C'mon, son! get back here 'fore he kills you !"
Me then see drone hesitate, hesitate...
And finaly move back... Slooooowwwwly... Sloooowwwwly...
Me sure stupid drone prefer being get killed than comin back to me
... Drone really don't like me. Stupid drone me thinks...
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PTang
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:47:00 -
[14]
This thread in the assembly hall has the more supports per post I've seen so far.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431186&page=1#1
I like it, the idea is to make blaster damage based on range, like a shotgun. the closer you are, and the bigger they are, the more damage they take. but you can't miss even if they are far away or moving fast, you just deal less damage due to shotgun spread.
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Ger Tomard
Caldari Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:50:00 -
[15]
I have battleship hybrid elite and I can say its perfectly fine that I can't kill a Drake in my. Hyperion. Perfectly fine.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: PTang
another idea in the thread for hybrids, was to make them do more damage the longer they travel since there is no frictions in space they would get faster and faster they traveled. Hitting for serious damage if your hit landed in falloff.
inherently dumb idea. only thing that accelerates on the way to the target is missiles. everything else just gets a mighty boot in the butt at the start and that's it for thrust.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:10:00 -
[17]
It'll be faster for you to train Amarr/Caldari/minmatar. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ Signature removed. Please submit a petition for further details. Navigator
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:56:00 -
[18]
Ive learned CCP_Dev_Speak
NERF RAILS!
Ive learned that if you ask for a buff, likely you will get a nerf. If you ask for a nerf, you will likely get a buff so... NERF RAILS!
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Illwill Bill Blasters could use some tracking improvements.
Kinda. More like...
Hybrids need some kind of attention and Gallente gun boats need a better way of getting to and holding down their target since the web nerf.
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Ger Tomard
Caldari Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:04:00 -
[20]
ITT: made up numbers and fail theoretical rhetoric.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Why would it be? Drones are equally accessible to most races, and the exceptions in Gallente get so few hybrid bonuses that they're not obligated to fit them at all (hi2u, AC Myrmidon). ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ger Tomard I have battleship hybrid elite and I can say its perfectly fine that I can't kill a Drake in my. Hyperion. Perfectly fine.
You suck with the hype then
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:15:00 -
[23]
Got to admit, I don't get the pairing of 'slow' ships with weapons that require you to quickly close in on your prey.
That much I will admit.
Of course missiles have 100% tracking you numpty. If the target is in reach, you 'hit'. There are no "Your missile MISSED TARGET" entries in my drake army logs.
Sure, did crap damage as target was moving, but that's the 'con' to the tracking pro.
Hybrids = good. Now, fitting them to ships with bonuses for them, er .. <throws hands in the air in defeat>
Hoppit!
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lain Umi on 10/02/2011 22:40:22
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Why would it be? Drones are equally accessible to most races, and the exceptions in Gallente get so few hybrid bonuses that they're not obligated to fit them at all (hi2u, AC Myrmidon).
drones are actually alright, especially sentries. drone boats are viable due to their flexibility, decent tank and decent dps. if sentries are equipped, you have very good range as well.
but when people start equipping AC's over blasters, and pulses over rails, then something is definitely wrong.
i agree that half of the issue lies with poorly planned gallente blaster boats: no tank, no speed, no agility, huge sig radius. coupled with ****-poor tracking of medium and up blasters - there's your reason to fit AC's instead.
main thing that grinds my gears is that CCP is selling blaster boats like this: "eh...they're risky to fly and skill-intensive...herp...but they pack one hell of a punch when theyre in your face...derp...so their role is really specialized....durrr...because on paper they really do the most DPS at point blank...guh..where is CSM coming from, i dont understand?"
issue: - blaster boats cannot get within range because everyone has a faster, more agile ship - blaster boat cannot start applying dps until point blank, while every other ship can - if a blaster boat gets within range, dps is mediocre at best and easily tankable; tracking is ****-poor; other ship has more tank - where are rails in this? why is it not mentioned that not only do pulses out-class rails in every way, but beams and tachyons do as well. even artillery has its niche for highest alpha. people use sentry drones for sniping. wtf are rails for? terrible PG requirements, terrible tracking, terrible dps.
and remember: it's not our JOB to come up with solutions. it's our job to give feedback as players, even though there are tons of solutions floating around the forums. we just need to band together as a community to let them know how real of an issue this is.
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illirdor
Gallente Renegades of the Dark Crusade The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Orion GUardian dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
Uhm no the rokh is not gonna out perform a beam abaddon....
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:05:00 -
[26]
The issue here is hybrids of either variety are only peak performers at extreme ranges, short or close. Those ranges are almost always completely impractical. The fact that an apocalypse with short range weapons can out DPS a rail boat into the edge lower edge of long range at an easy 60-70km is ridiculous. In fact, no matter how you fit a rail boat the only range you'll out-DPS equivalent long range weapons are at the 150km+ range, and maybe not even then.
As a counter-proposal to the others that have been made: 1) allow sentry drones to move with the ship to function as turrets and cover the middle-range DPS 2) introduce small and medium sentry drones
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:23:00 -
[27]
It is not like most of the blaster pvp pilots called it game over 2.5 years ago as Nozh trolled us with his ECM med blaster Hypes and sledgehammer nerfed blaster pvp into uselessness, because ships going to fast and people cried about close range was a range where they lost ships(imagine the option of blaster pilots on this topic, having zero issues with dieing at close range)...
To be serious I don't think there is any real supporter on the CSM or CCP side, since the numbers look ok in EFT and ideal encounters but fail miserably in real game play. O well, it is not that we posted tons of pages about it during the years. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:44:00 -
[28]
People that wonder why hybrids suck. Should know that Gallente was originally HULL tankers. I kid you not. The hull repair modules repaired alot more hull back then. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shintai People that wonder why hybrids suck. Should know that Gallente was originally HULL tankers. I kid you not. The hull repair modules repaired alot more hull back then.
People never hull tanked gallente ships as far as I'm aware(and this is halve a decade and reading most of the topics from the earlier day before I did go this route). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:38:00 -
[30]
we don't need a hybrid buff... just a hybrid balancing...
Also I think the ships are the real issue here... thorax needs microwarp sig radius penalty removal bonus,
Gallente ships in general need web bonuses, they're armour tanked after all -------
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