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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:50:00 -
[1]
there are a couple of long threads discussing the subpar performance of hybrids. the community is in a consensus that rails and blasters are extremely underpowered compared to all the other races' weapons (on cruiser and up ships).
i am concerned because the devs seemed baffled by the CSM feedback on hybrids. the gallente threads are gonna keep popping up and growing. just wondering if anything is on the drawing board for hybrid re-balancing.
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Illwill Bill
Noxious Intention
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:53:00 -
[2]
Blasters could use some tracking improvements.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
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Chandaris
Gallente Lethal Devotion
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Posted - 2011.02.10 14:52:00 -
[3]
yea hybrids suck.. too bad i trained them all up to 5 before i understood the mechanics of the game..
please do something about this ccp
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lain Umi there are a couple of long threads discussing the subpar performance of hybrids. the community is in a consensus that rails and blasters are extremely underpowered compared to all the other races' weapons (on cruiser and up ships).
i am concerned because the devs seemed baffled by the CSM feedback on hybrids. the gallente threads are gonna keep popping up and growing. just wondering if anything is on the drawing board for hybrid re-balancing.
Hybrids are geting some unidentified "knockback" effect bringing useless discussions with prepared answers and no real solutions. Because the whole stuff ships/hybrids (gallente but also caldari) need to get a close look in to, and this means time that mabe dev's teams don't have in their agenda. And has you'll not see any junior dev' take the time to read all the serious feedback from now over 2 years and take some decisions, like just posting "we're aware that some minor problems blahblahblah", you're not ready to see any changes since you will crosstrain no matter how longuer the issue will stand, so do it right now and stop loosing your time to make it simple.
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:24:00 -
[5]
Not sure we need homogeneous weapon types thanks.
1 - alpha = good (Projectiles) 1 - optimal range = good (Crystals) 1 - dps (you have to fire for over 60 seconds to average this out) = good (Hybrids) 1 - tracking = 100% every time (Missiles)
Pick your desired weapon type go go go
Hoppit!
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Miagi Sans
Amarr PURgE-Corp PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:26:00 -
[6]
Its not the turrets, its the ships using the turrets. They need more bonus which compliment the hybrid turrets, like webbing or mwd bonuses.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Spurty Not sure we need homogeneous weapon types thanks.
1 - alpha = good (Projectiles) 1 - optimal range = good (Crystals) 1 - dps (you have to fire for over 60 seconds to average this out) = good (Hybrids) 1 - tracking = 100% every time (Missiles)
Pick your desired weapon type go go go
Fix should be
Missiles 10 to 100 % every time and it does not matter how you maneuver. Really the only good missiles are heavys.
So please do not spread the 100 % tracking crap Pod |
Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.10 16:42:00 -
[8]
dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
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Lord EmBra
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 17:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Orion GUardian dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
1, if you are going to compare the rokh against an amarr ship it should be the apocalypse since they have the same role in a fleet. 2, don't compare a longrange weaponsystem against a short range one.
So if you are going to compare hybrids and lasers, then use a similar ship and weapon type, not the complete opposite in all aspects.
With this said, blasterboats need some useful bonuses, or better up, faster base speed/agility.
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Zyx Shewma
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Posted - 2011.02.10 17:25:00 -
[10]
Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:22:00 -
[11]
The problem with blasters is not in the blasters themselves, but in the fact that blaster boats can't get into a position to be able to effectively use their blasters. To support this, look back to the "blaster nerf". IIRC, the actual nerfing wasn't on the blasters themselves, but on MWDs and webs. Blaster boats used MWDs to get into range, then webbed and pointed their victim. But now webs are only half as effective as they once were, and MWDs are shut down by scramblers. End result: blaster boats can't use MWDs to get all the way into range, and even if the blaster boat DOES get into range, webs aren't powerful enough to STAY in range.
The second part of the "hybrid" problem are railguns. The main issue here is that long range sniping really doesn't have a purpose in modern EVE warfare. Probes can lock down snipers in mere seconds, sniping battleships can't pin their targets down and they lack the DPS to break a spider tank at all. At least artillery has enough alpha strike to potentially pop someone before they can receive reps. But rail guns really lack any "oomph" at all. To make matters worse, beam lasers still have enough range to fit the sniping role but have FAR superior DPS over railguns. It is rather ironic that once the Rokh was introduced, players thought that it would become the defacto standard for sniping. How wrong we were. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
gallente drone boats have drone bonuses and caldari have no drone boats but they have hybrid boats.
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Space Tarantula Haklar
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Space Tarantula Haklar on 10/02/2011 18:46:04 Edited by: Space Tarantula Haklar on 10/02/2011 18:45:11
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Maybe because the thread was about Hybrids, just sayin
But
Me not very much likey drones... But that's Ok, drones seems don't likey me much neither : when me telling drone "hey, don't you see, you gettin shot! C'mon, son! get back here 'fore he kills you !"
Me then see drone hesitate, hesitate...
And finaly move back... Slooooowwwwly... Sloooowwwwly...
Me sure stupid drone prefer being get killed than comin back to me
... Drone really don't like me. Stupid drone me thinks...
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PTang
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:47:00 -
[14]
This thread in the assembly hall has the more supports per post I've seen so far.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431186&page=1#1
I like it, the idea is to make blaster damage based on range, like a shotgun. the closer you are, and the bigger they are, the more damage they take. but you can't miss even if they are far away or moving fast, you just deal less damage due to shotgun spread.
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Ger Tomard
Caldari Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:50:00 -
[15]
I have battleship hybrid elite and I can say its perfectly fine that I can't kill a Drake in my. Hyperion. Perfectly fine.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: PTang
another idea in the thread for hybrids, was to make them do more damage the longer they travel since there is no frictions in space they would get faster and faster they traveled. Hitting for serious damage if your hit landed in falloff.
inherently dumb idea. only thing that accelerates on the way to the target is missiles. everything else just gets a mighty boot in the butt at the start and that's it for thrust.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:10:00 -
[17]
It'll be faster for you to train Amarr/Caldari/minmatar. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ Signature removed. Please submit a petition for further details. Navigator
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.02.10 19:56:00 -
[18]
Ive learned CCP_Dev_Speak
NERF RAILS!
Ive learned that if you ask for a buff, likely you will get a nerf. If you ask for a nerf, you will likely get a buff so... NERF RAILS!
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Illwill Bill Blasters could use some tracking improvements.
Kinda. More like...
Hybrids need some kind of attention and Gallente gun boats need a better way of getting to and holding down their target since the web nerf.
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Ger Tomard
Caldari Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:04:00 -
[20]
ITT: made up numbers and fail theoretical rhetoric.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Why would it be? Drones are equally accessible to most races, and the exceptions in Gallente get so few hybrid bonuses that they're not obligated to fit them at all (hi2u, AC Myrmidon). ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.10 20:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ger Tomard I have battleship hybrid elite and I can say its perfectly fine that I can't kill a Drake in my. Hyperion. Perfectly fine.
You suck with the hype then
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:15:00 -
[23]
Got to admit, I don't get the pairing of 'slow' ships with weapons that require you to quickly close in on your prey.
That much I will admit.
Of course missiles have 100% tracking you numpty. If the target is in reach, you 'hit'. There are no "Your missile MISSED TARGET" entries in my drake army logs.
Sure, did crap damage as target was moving, but that's the 'con' to the tracking pro.
Hybrids = good. Now, fitting them to ships with bonuses for them, er .. <throws hands in the air in defeat>
Hoppit!
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lain Umi on 10/02/2011 22:40:22
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Zyx Shewma Can't believe nothing has been said about drones yet.
Why would it be? Drones are equally accessible to most races, and the exceptions in Gallente get so few hybrid bonuses that they're not obligated to fit them at all (hi2u, AC Myrmidon).
drones are actually alright, especially sentries. drone boats are viable due to their flexibility, decent tank and decent dps. if sentries are equipped, you have very good range as well.
but when people start equipping AC's over blasters, and pulses over rails, then something is definitely wrong.
i agree that half of the issue lies with poorly planned gallente blaster boats: no tank, no speed, no agility, huge sig radius. coupled with ****-poor tracking of medium and up blasters - there's your reason to fit AC's instead.
main thing that grinds my gears is that CCP is selling blaster boats like this: "eh...they're risky to fly and skill-intensive...herp...but they pack one hell of a punch when theyre in your face...derp...so their role is really specialized....durrr...because on paper they really do the most DPS at point blank...guh..where is CSM coming from, i dont understand?"
issue: - blaster boats cannot get within range because everyone has a faster, more agile ship - blaster boat cannot start applying dps until point blank, while every other ship can - if a blaster boat gets within range, dps is mediocre at best and easily tankable; tracking is ****-poor; other ship has more tank - where are rails in this? why is it not mentioned that not only do pulses out-class rails in every way, but beams and tachyons do as well. even artillery has its niche for highest alpha. people use sentry drones for sniping. wtf are rails for? terrible PG requirements, terrible tracking, terrible dps.
and remember: it's not our JOB to come up with solutions. it's our job to give feedback as players, even though there are tons of solutions floating around the forums. we just need to band together as a community to let them know how real of an issue this is.
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illirdor
Gallente Renegades of the Dark Crusade The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Orion GUardian dont flame me, but I did a comparism of Beams and Railguns yesterday
At 50km and up aRailgunfit Rokh outperforms a Beam-Fitted Abaddon in terms of dmg and speed Abbadon wins at tracking and EHP though
If the Abaddon fits Pulse Lasers it wins till a Range of 80km till it cannot hit anything. so: Rails are NOT bad dmg wise at all compared to Beams for example BUT
1. Pulse Lasers can hit up to 80km at far supirior DPS than Rails 2. Rails have serious problems in Tracking enemies! Enough to say that Large Rails are useles below 100+km
So Rails got 2 Problems: 1. BAD Tracking makes them useless at shorter Ranges (Antimatter-Thorium Range) 2. Their direct Competitor at 80km are NOT Beams (like it should be) but Pulse Lasers, the "short range" Laser weapon
Solutions: Increase Tracking and Increase dmg for lower Range Railguns to be comparable to Pulses.
Uhm no the rokh is not gonna out perform a beam abaddon....
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:05:00 -
[26]
The issue here is hybrids of either variety are only peak performers at extreme ranges, short or close. Those ranges are almost always completely impractical. The fact that an apocalypse with short range weapons can out DPS a rail boat into the edge lower edge of long range at an easy 60-70km is ridiculous. In fact, no matter how you fit a rail boat the only range you'll out-DPS equivalent long range weapons are at the 150km+ range, and maybe not even then.
As a counter-proposal to the others that have been made: 1) allow sentry drones to move with the ship to function as turrets and cover the middle-range DPS 2) introduce small and medium sentry drones
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:23:00 -
[27]
It is not like most of the blaster pvp pilots called it game over 2.5 years ago as Nozh trolled us with his ECM med blaster Hypes and sledgehammer nerfed blaster pvp into uselessness, because ships going to fast and people cried about close range was a range where they lost ships(imagine the option of blaster pilots on this topic, having zero issues with dieing at close range)...
To be serious I don't think there is any real supporter on the CSM or CCP side, since the numbers look ok in EFT and ideal encounters but fail miserably in real game play. O well, it is not that we posted tons of pages about it during the years. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.02.10 23:44:00 -
[28]
People that wonder why hybrids suck. Should know that Gallente was originally HULL tankers. I kid you not. The hull repair modules repaired alot more hull back then. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shintai People that wonder why hybrids suck. Should know that Gallente was originally HULL tankers. I kid you not. The hull repair modules repaired alot more hull back then.
People never hull tanked gallente ships as far as I'm aware(and this is halve a decade and reading most of the topics from the earlier day before I did go this route). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:38:00 -
[30]
we don't need a hybrid buff... just a hybrid balancing...
Also I think the ships are the real issue here... thorax needs microwarp sig radius penalty removal bonus,
Gallente ships in general need web bonuses, they're armour tanked after all -------
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.11 03:56:00 -
[31]
yeah. boats and the guns themselves require attention.
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Regent Clinkscales
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Posted - 2011.02.11 04:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: PTang
another idea in the thread for hybrids, was to make them do more damage the longer they travel since there is no frictions in space they would get faster and faster they traveled. Hitting for serious damage if your hit landed in falloff.
Physics fail detected! No friction in space only means no drag slowing the projectile. A force acting on your mass is still needed to have an acceleration.
Already said but boost hybrid tracking, reduce number of different charges/add variety to current charges and fix blaster ships.
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.02.11 14:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Shintai People that wonder why hybrids suck. Should know that Gallente was originally HULL tankers. I kid you not. The hull repair modules repaired alot more hull back then.
People never hull tanked gallente ships as far as I'm aware(and this is halve a decade and reading most of the topics from the earlier day before I did go this route).
Nobody armnour tanked either. It was all shield tanks with stacked invulns. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.11 14:28:00 -
[34]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Gwydion Telcontar
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
...to Features and Ideas, where discussions of hybrids go to die.
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Achaikos
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:10:00 -
[36]
Well if you gonna fix something you also could take a look at the fall off from auto cannons
such as you give lets say a 1000volley then next you give a damn 300volley or something near it while nothing changes. Speed,trans everything the same yet MASSIVE difrence in damage :O
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.02.11 18:28:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Zephris on 11/02/2011 18:33:00
Quote: Physics fail detected!
EVE already fail physics forever.
A single railgun that strikes a target at 100KM instantly (within 0.1 second) with a 0.05m3 of tungsten deliver Kenetic energy of 481 Terajoule. (0.05*19.25E3*(1E6)^2/2) FYI this is identical to 114 kilotons of explosives or five Fat Man nukes.
It take about 982 Kilojoule (35.3E3+806.7E3+24.27*5828) of energy to vaporize one Mole of Tungsten. (183.8g) Dividing the two values. A single large Tungsten charge can vaporize 90000 metric ton of rolled tungsten armor. (489Million Mol)
A single volley from 8 425mm railguns, by this calculation, can vaporize 725,000 metric ton of rolled tungsten armor. For comparison, a Abaddon weights 103,200 tons according to attributes.
That means a Abaddon would be vaporized seven times by a single volley from 425mm, if EVE had any resemblance of physics.
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.02.11 18:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zephris on 11/02/2011 18:42:21
Originally by: PTang Edited by: PTang on 10/02/2011 18:48:48 This thread in the assembly hall has the more supports per post I've seen so far.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431186&page=1#1
I like it, the idea is to make blaster damage based on range, like a shotgun. the closer you are, and the bigger they are, the more damage they take. but you can't miss even if they are far away or moving fast, you just deal less damage due to shotgun spread.
another idea in the thread for hybrids, was to make them do more damage the longer they travel since there is no frictions in space they would get faster and faster they traveled. Hitting for serious damage if your hit landed in falloff.
The only thing that would do more damage the longer they travel is rockets. Kenetic missiles would behave this way. (if eve didn't fail physics forever) The Spike could do this as well because they have rocket boosters on them.
Quote: The Spike munition package is designed to deliver huge damage to targets at extreme distances. It consists of a superdense plutonium sabot mounted on a small rocket unit that provides a substantial boost to the sabots impact velocity.
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.02.11 18:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
If you don't want to deal with it, why don't you say so that we may cancel our subscription.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.02.11 20:11:00 -
[40]
fixing hybrids: a small RoF increase on rails would probably make them more desirable, dunno how to fix them beyond increasing max lock range to 350km and making on-grid warps from 150km to 200km or even 250km.
blaster fix is a wee bit more visible but requires actually quite a complex approach.
at a ship level, and in general, first one needs to equate the armor tanking rigs. they make your ship slow, but you need them to pump out extra HP on the ships, since cap intensive active tanks are less desirable on platforms that already dedicate a good hump of cap and cap charges to even move at combat speeds. plates also don't help, since their mass penalty makes the ships even slower and sluggish. A way to change this could go thru either decrease or change the penalties of the rigs themselves, or, as I saw sugested in a post once, make rigs with no penalties, but giving less bonuses, and make the skills increase the rig bonuses. Granted, this approach needs quite a workout and balancing, but, in general, this would actually make armor-tanked blaster ships bigger than frigates move a bit better on battlefield. at a gun level, on top of giving them a wee bit more tracking (10% more tops), they need a good boost on the firepower department (up to 30%). I wouldn't actually mind making the blasters pretty much worthless beyond scram ranges to balance the huge dps output they could gain from it. Blasters, afteral, should be the be-all end-all weapon at scram ranges, capable of pummeling everything and anyone to dust thru superior dps. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Aku Soma
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Posted - 2011.02.14 01:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: mkmin As a counter-proposal to the others that have been made: 1) allow sentry drones to move with the ship to function as turrets and cover the middle-range DPS 2) introduce small and medium sentry drones[/quote
+1 I vote for this solution!
Having started when racial traits meant something, drones were what attracted me to the Gallente. There were reasonable limitations for some ships, and some rather unreasonable ones for others given the nature of Gallente war mechanics.
For example, the Velator (Gallente rookie ship) can field 10m3 of drones, and the best Gallente combat frigates can only field 5m3 (t2 excluded). The Catalyst can only field 5m3, etc. Things got good again with the Vexor, then came the nerfs in the form of bandwidth, because some folks figured out that if you cycled abandoned drones through the drone bay you could control as many as you had skill for.
An exploit? Maybe, maybe not, why? You could not just spit out drones and cycle them and field more than the ship could carry in the drone bay; if solo, you would have to go and get more at a station and stage your location, and then cycle them. In a group it could be thick with drones, but again, the staging of it is the cost to do it, and it is easily disrupted as the abandoned drones are vulnerable from either, cycling, theft, or destruction by the ôenemy.ö So Bandwidth killed this method of ôextendingö control over more drones than the ship could carry.
Bandwidth limitations negated this ôloophole.ö Since so few ships can actually fielded up to 5 of any size drone under cruiser, and then only drone boats can boast the bandwidth to use heavier drones to make it a bother, why limit all non-capitol ships to 5 max in space and then jump to 25. So before bandwidth limitations the Vexor, could field 5 drones of any size; you could field up to 5 heavies, because the ship had the room for it. The ship has been given a ludicrous bandwidth of 75m3 meaning at best you could field 3 heavy class drones, or any combination up to the m3 limit. Forcing the size of the ship to serve as the max size of the drone it can field its max of 5 in, frigates(t2 Ishkur)=light, cruisers=medium, and battleships=heavy. Capping the fieldable compliment of the drone carrier is distasteful, when the carry capacity is already controlled. But thatÆs all fine and dandy, however, if the pilot chooses to field a lighter contingent in space, and itÆs within bandwidth, then more than 5 drones should be able to fielded if the pilot has the skill; that should not have been limited to just capitols (carriers, super carriers).
So, drones are made less powerful à now I know what some of you are thinking, that the awesomeness of drones was just so darn powerful something had to be done! My answer is to introduce a counter ship, not nerf the stuff that has already been established and characters built around or for.
I mean the Gallente should be thick with drone pilots and drones should be a mainstay of Gallente vessels, it was a specialty that was Gallente, but now everyone is on the same footing for the most part. Drones are no longer a specialty for the Gallente and then the jump in usable drones is not graduated from frigate through battleship but is kept the same 5 max drones, then at capitol jumps to 25, wtf! I would have been happier if they did it similar to PI where each level of bigger ship gave a +1 the max number of drones in space commensurate with the size and role of the ship. So a cruiser could field 6 max and the BC 7, and the BS 8 max with the appropriate skills. That is a more graduated approach than 5 max for non-capitol ships, then 25 max for capitolsà . To continue the scale, carriers are at 9 base max, and super carriers at 10 base max. Anyway, just my .02 isk. Sorry for the long post.
Lord Aku of House Soma
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qwijJibow
Caldari The Unpodable Supermen
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Posted - 2011.02.14 04:45:00 -
[42]
lets first look at rail guns...
in comparsion with beams and arties:
dps from highest to lowest = 1. beams 2. arties 3. rails
alpha from highest to lowest = 1. arties 2. beams 3. rails
rof from highest to lowest = 1. beams 2. rails 3. arties
optimal from highest to lowest = 1. rails 2. beams 3. arties
fall off from highest to lowest = 1. arties 2. rails. 3. beams
tracking from highest to lowest = 1. beams 2. rails. 3. arties
as we can see rails only come in 1st place when it comes to optimal range...
it comes clear that the dps should be increased...
imo both alpha and dps shold go up for rails... go look at the stats for a railthron vs artytempy vs tachionapox...
the railthron only has 1900 alpha the apox does around 2600 alpha and the arty gets 6100 alpha...
imo the rails need to do atleast simular alpha to beams wich means an increase to damage modifier of 30% which would give them 2450 alpha
Rails should have the highest dps period... as it stands increasing thier alpha by 30% will increase thier dps... but not enough... we need to also increase rof and at the same time decrease activation cost to mitigate the effect... with a 30 % increase you now have the mega doing 445 dps... but if we increase the rof by 20% then the mega's dps goes up to an impresive 570 dps...
Remember you hell is someone elses heaven... |
qwijJibow
Caldari The Unpodable Supermen
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Posted - 2011.02.14 04:54:00 -
[43]
as for blasters....
they should be close range arties... except instead of having the really long fall off they should have the best tracking to hit targets at point blank range...
give them the highest tracking the highest alpha and the highest dps... (they already have the highest dps so the rof should be decreased to keep dps the same)
give them the worst optimal range the worst rof and the second best falloff...
now blasters will have a nice niche that will resurrect short range pvp... Remember you hell is someone elses heaven... |
qwijJibow
Caldari The Unpodable Supermen
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Posted - 2011.02.14 05:21:00 -
[44]
now for the ammo: they are hybrid guns their ammo should be hybrid too...
so we come to this...
the bonuses should be shared i.e. a reduction to activation cost and a tracking bonus should be included...
half the activation cost bonus and replace the other half with a tracking bonus...
but wait there is more...
since hybrids do only two damage types... there should be more options for how much of each type is projected...
so: close range ammo: antimater 80/20 split therm/kin -50% to optimal range no activation bonus or tracking bonus uranium 50/50 split therm/kin -45% to optimal range 5% reduction in cap 5% bonus to tracking plutonium 20/80 split therm/kin -40% to optimal range 10% reduction in cap 10 % bonus to tracking
mid range ammo: thorium 80/20 split therm/kin 20% reduction in cap 20% bonus to tracking -25% to optimal range lead 50/50 split therm/kin 25% reduction in cap 15% bonus to tracking no change to optimal range iridium 20/80 split therm/kin 30% reduction in cap 10% bonus to tracking +25% to to optimal range
long range ammo: tungsten 80/20 split therm/kin +40% to optimal range 35% reduction in cap 5% bonus to tracking iron 20/80 split therm/kin +60% to optimal range 40% reduction in cap no change to tracking Remember you hell is someone elses heaven... |
WolfMarrell
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Posted - 2011.02.14 05:52:00 -
[45]
A nifty idea that was proposed at one point or another...
For ammo:
Halve the time (from 10 seconds to 5) that it would take to change out ammo. To compensate, halve the ammo that they pack...
My personal opinion, make it so you can insta change it. 5 is dandy but i'd rather see insta swap, since 5 may still be too much...
This way you can always select the best ammo for your range with out losing a CRAP TON of dps.
Beyond that, i wouldnt mind seeing blasters be the "in your face", DPS version of howitzers. Also, if you added in the slowness (like 7-10 second cycle), with the "shotgun" affect that many seem incline to mention (the closer you are, the harder they hit which is basically how they work already in a less contextual sense) a player would have to carefully choose when they fired, or lose hard on dps. Think vagabond that concentrated on range rather then transversal. This would make them a wonderful "nitch" that would be really interesting to see played out. However alot of blaster hulls would require some overhauls to see the changes put to proper use. I dont see a megathron doing squat at its 120m/s, 300 maybe with an after burner...
They really have screwed the gallente design and concept, which used to work wonderfully, and should now honestly throw it out for a new one that works in this days EvE style of play. CCP honestly behaves like a bunch of EFT warriors, thinking tank and spank is all that comes to play. I'd like to see some incursion video's by them of cruiser size+ gallente blaster boats doing CONSISTENTLY well in non specialized, general situations if they think theyre so fine.
Lastly, I would like to state (for the third time on these forums)...
Who's idea was it to give the shortest range weapons, the worst tracking!?!
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.14 07:38:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Kepakh on 14/02/2011 07:47:41
Originally by: WolfMarrell
Who's idea was it to give the shortest range weapons, the worst tracking!?!
They do not track the worst.
Highest tier blaster has about same tracking as highest tier AC, although lower tier blaster tracking is outperformed by lower tier ACs, still they track better than lasers.
In a spirit of one of the posts above, Projectile ammo bonus model would be suitable for Hybrids way better.
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betoli
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Posted - 2011.02.14 08:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Grimpak fixing hybrids: at a ship level, and in general, first one needs to equate the armor tanking rigs.
This. A ship that needs specific range (close range) needs to be able to get there - somehow. Changing the armor rig penalty to something else would be a start...
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:39:00 -
[48]
postin in a hybrid thread, check
caldari dont do hybrids as well as they do missiles. forget instant low damage, invest in high damage later!
as for gallente, sucks to be gallente.
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