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flummox
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Posted - 2005.01.28 20:06:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Cassendra
Instas and highways suck. Yes, Eve was much bigger in June 03. The universe was absolutely huge, and it gave an incredible sense of adventure and exploration that had no comparison in other games. Going to another empire truly felt like travelling to a new culture. Amarr had almost only amarr ships.. Caldari space was truly Caldari.
Then highways came and the game size shrank. They kindof made sense at one point, when the number of players on the server at any given time average 3000. It boosted player interraction and playability to some extent...
Instas..ermm well...they were never intended for the purpose they have today. There is a reason why warps defaulted to a good distance from any object in space.
Still love Eve, but it would be better without instas, without highways, and with a sizeable chunk of 0.0 space between empires. Not mainly for piracy purposes, but for the sake of the overall game experience.
those aren't the only reasons, and may not even be an actual factor in how EVE has become smaller.
a lot of things make the EVE-iverse "smaller". one of them is the amount of information available. i think this plays an enormous role in how "small" EVE seems. back in June 2003, there was very little info on anything at all. well, at least outside the channels of the beta testers.
no one knew where anything was. arkanor and 0.0 systems were "close by" to empire. you had to search for things more. now if you want arkanor, you know it's gonna be deep in 0.0. no mystery there at all. EVE seems smaller, cuz you know exactly where to go and where NOT to go. no more wasting time finding anything. need a good implant agent? check the forums. point is, a lot of the "small" is an illusion.
the root of the problem isn't always the obvious one. sometimes multiple things effect the outcome...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Trader Klyde
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Posted - 2005.01.28 20:19:00 -
[32]
One of the things I have noticed about "most" of the people asking for removal of the Hiways and instajumps, is they are long time players, or "Vets" of the game...
I started this game back in March of 04, to me it was absolutely huge with vast amounts of space with nothing and nobody to be found.
As my time in the game has grown, I've noticed that the vastness has diminished. When I was new it took forever to get around, and I wasn't sure I would be able to finish my newb missions before the end of the year. 
I said all of that to make this small point... Maybe Eve shrunk because all or most of you are seasoned players that use MWD's and AB's to get around. Add to that, any game you play seems huge at the start and shrinks as you become familiar with it.
The Hiways and instajumps were here when I started (I think) but I still took forever to get around... Removing the Hiways would only serve to run off new players that don't want to spend hours just traveling through space.
From my perspective, Eve is still huge to me... of course there's much of it I'd like to see but never will, mostly due to being claimed turf.
Maybe there'd be a compromise available... remove Hiways from 0.0 and leave them in Empire. Dunno. I do know that if hiways were removed from Empire it would effectively kill my agent running career. 
________________________________________________
From deep in space where nobody hears my screams...
Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style. |
Dukath
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Posted - 2005.01.28 20:53:00 -
[33]
The instajumps and highway systems have made the universe much smaller. Why? Not only because it takes you less time to travel, but also because goods, blueprints, everything else travels faster too.
You can find almost everything anywhere. Once you have seen the goods in one region, you have seen it all. Eve looks small because everything basically is the same everywhere. In stead of having many distinct regions we just have one single huge region.
instajumps need to go
highways need to go
blueprints should have a limited number of copies
local chat needs to hide numbers and people
map should not show any statistics in 0.0 space
ships should remain persistent even when logged off
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flummox
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dukath
The instajumps and highway systems have made the universe much smaller. Why? Not only because it takes you less time to travel, but also because goods, blueprints, everything else travels faster too.
You can find almost everything anywhere. Once you have seen the goods in one region, you have seen it all. Eve looks small because everything basically is the same everywhere. In stead of having many distinct regions we just have one single huge region.
instajumps need to go
highways need to go
blueprints should have a limited number of copies
local chat needs to hide numbers and people
map should not show any statistics in 0.0 space
ships should remain persistent even when logged off
instajumps need to go --> no way. it's an innovation of a system. you can't take it away. that would be similar to taking away the ability of a Plumb Bob or water level.
highways need to go --> okay.
blueprints should have a limited number of copies --> uh, not sure...
local chat needs to hide numbers and people --> sure. of those pilots without clones...
map should not show any statistics in 0.0 space --> of those pilots who have no insurance and no clone...
ships should remain persistent even when logged --> uh. really? maybe. i can see it possible to only "log off" at a station. but, it's gonna be hard to do...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.01.28 22:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 28/01/2005 22:56:12
Avon 1 v Wrangler 0
Hypocrisy 4tw \o/
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Ardor
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:35:00 -
[36]
- no instas
- no highways
- no autopilot
- 0.0 between Empires
- no map!
The universe was huge at that time. It was an advantage to know your home when noone had a map. Some pilots made their own 'maps'. I liked it more how it was in the very beginning.
It's always a compromise between simulation and arcade. I prefer the simulation but the arcade mode brings more subscribers and thats the biggest argument that even I can understand. As long as arcade doesnt get the upperhand and eve doesnt turn into counterstrike in space I will be here.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:42:00 -
[37]
buuhuu, i been trolled by wrangler! ban ban ban
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The Reporter
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: slothe
and?.......
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ardor
- no instas
- no highways
- no autopilot
- 0.0 between Empires
- no map!
The universe was huge at that time. It was an advantage to know your home when noone had a map. Some pilots made their own 'maps'. I liked it more how it was in the very beginning.
It's always a compromise between simulation and arcade. I prefer the simulation but the arcade mode brings more subscribers and thats the biggest argument that even I can understand. As long as arcade doesnt get the upperhand and eve doesnt turn into counterstrike in space I will be here.
....no AP? *has nighmares of how navigation was horrid in beta before AP*
well nuking highways is an idea that I rather like, but removing AP is kinda..... bad... I can still remember when I needed to go from scolluzer to yulai in beta... I would usualy lost myself arround 5 times per trip , and adding the fact that jumpgates always would left me arround 100 or more AU's from any gate and ships warped at 2 Au/sec (afaik?) and you couldn't make that big warps... you know the feeling
0.0 between empires would give a nice compartimentation to the game and improve regional markets.
but the map should've stay... it's important now
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.01.29 01:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Siddy
buuhuu, i been trolled by wrangler! ban ban ban
You want me to ban you? It seems a bit harsh, but if that is what you really want... 
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.29 01:05:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Siddy on 29/01/2005 01:05:32
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Siddy
buuhuu, i been trolled by wrangler! ban ban ban
You want me to ban you? It seems a bit harsh, but if that is what you really want...
you "cant talk abaut the *** word on forums cause the forum rules" me 3 times for 2 weeks alredy...
im kinda used to it...
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Dau Imperius
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Posted - 2005.01.29 01:33:00 -
[42]
I do miss the first months of the game.
No highways.
No sentry guns.
No cloaking at gates.
We could mine decent high-end ore in Empire space.
Security gain and pirate bounties were...woot! all the way.
No shuttles (or pretty much most ships for that matter).
Pirates were nothing but useless players like mOo (wait they still are).
Mining was the big emphasis to build up (yep all old players mined, admit it, I couldn't count the mining name corporations, like Mining Unlimited, etc.).
Trade was actually more privateer-ish.
Exploration was actually on the table for discussion, but fell out of favor. (I still remember all the exploration corps that started up)
Generally fewer players. (Which is also why space felt so big)
Everyone in frigates. (Unless they purchased the first tier I cruiser near the end of the first months. What a day that was, everyone pushing thier frigs up agaisnt the HUGE cruiser that stood out occaisonally.)
Travel was long and let you felt like you were going places for important reasons.
NPC's purchased and sold pretty much everything. (You could base prices off them as well)
No escrow Wal-mart. (Or escrow for that matter)
No alliances.
I could go on. Open up new space? What, so more alliances can come in and make the game still feel small for everyone? Everything is Fubard as it is, to push everyone out into the chaos that is 0.0 or end of in squabble via Empire-only space.
As much as I want new space, until they can give us back at least 1/4 of what we lost in wonder for the game, it'll just add more territory for alliances. Big flippin deal.
Yeah mini-rant heh, but it was a good game to wonder and explore when we started. Felt exciting and Empire space was not a burden to live in. Dind't have to go into PvP land if you dind't want to and still live decently.
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2005.01.29 02:07:00 -
[43]
IMHO the devs need to tack on new empires round the outskirts of existing 0.0, leaving current highways in empire space.
This would provide the opportunity to create new and truly unique regions, with big swaths of 0.0 in between. Travelling from regions on opposite sides would require travelling from that region through 0.0 to empire, through empire, through 0.0 the other side and then into the region :)
Would make 0.0 / alliance space interesting :)
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Derran
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Posted - 2005.01.29 02:21:00 -
[44]
I remember when I started in May 2003. The universe definitely did feel big. It still feels that way now but to a much lesser extent with the addition of those highways. The space itself doesn't feel spread out as much or quite as distinct. I feel there are alot of factors to this though. You can't really travel to 0.0 space. Alot of alliances claim those regions as their own and guard it zealously, sometimes to the point of stuffing their battleships with as many tracking links and sensor boosters so they can instantly fry any ships and their pods coming in from far away as they enter. Hasn't happened to me yet but I know it happens. Personally, I think the bigger picture is that it all come down to economics in the game. While leveling is not really part of this game like in nearly all other MMORPGs, Eve has its own sort of leveling and that is ISK. It is really easy to speed towards a battleship. And this is totally contrary to what CCP had once stated back when Eve first started almost 2 years ago where Battleships were something only a large corporation could own and not a single individual. Well, there are a hell of alot of people who have several battleships of their own and can afford them all. Hell, most of them are still in the newbie corps. The balance for battleships I don't feel is quite there when you compare it to what they can do versus other ships and the cost of ownership of one, though it is alot closer than it once was. I still remember when the largest cruiser had a cost of what the cheapest battleship costs now. Personally, I think that is the real issue. Getting rich quick and staying that way has become too easy and everything just spiraled from there. It has now become that those alliances need those battleships because as a result of everyone having a battleships, the rats in 0.0 were made bigger to actually be a challenge for them. Of course, turning it all about on its heels would upset everyone I'm sure, but stepping back from all this makes me see that way. I know I sure am bored sitting on about 500,000,000 ISK now with a couple of battleships and heavy assault ships. Doesn't feel like I have anything left to aspire to anymore.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.29 03:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Siddy
try to touch the higways or instajumps and yo will get thousand "Whaaambulances" to your way
Crare bares are realy sensitive abaut they no-brain proffit and safetavel things 
lets make EVE into a Candyland 
LMAO
Everyone are really sensitive about the stuff they like, doesn't matter if you wan't instajumps there or gone, highways there or gone etc. You cry pretty much when they're discussing changing the things you like as well.
very true. On the other hand, it's not like every system is jam packed full of folks; 0.0 space also has it's highways that allow the pirates to patrol vast regions of space; It's not like there's more than 7 chokepoints into 0.0 space; More highways open up the escrow market; and bookmarks take EFFORT
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Aelius
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Posted - 2005.01.29 05:55:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Aelius on 29/01/2005 05:56:58
Originally by: Torgrim
I rememberd when EVE was new and all flown around in frigates and the galaxy was HUGE.
There where no highways so it took awhile too get from Lum too Amarr.
You could fly thrue the space and dont see any people in like 20-30 systems.
0.0 space was closed so you dreamed about going there and explore all it riches.
Space was untaimed and unexplored.
Those where the days...
Now EVE is small very small, 0.0 space is no longer unexplored, its controlled by alliances.
The highway thrue Empire space is like Autobahn you can fly from one end of the Empire too another in a blink of an eye compared too the old days.
This is EVE once huge mystic place too live and fly thrue the spacelanes, now EVE universe is explored and a small place too live in.
I know the feeling, TRUST ME i know it. Long live the old galaxie. EVE is becoming a place for brainless idiots. Too easy too soon. 
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Dufas
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Posted - 2005.01.29 06:27:00 -
[47]
when the game first came out i was based near chaven and after i had played for about a few days i decided to go get a mammoth way way way up in minnie-vill....with no highway the freaking trip there and back took me like all damn day...such a waste...i love the highways...faster is better
fear the mullet
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Vicker Lahn'se
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Posted - 2005.01.29 08:21:00 -
[48]
I think they just need to open up those empty regions.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.01.29 11:56:00 -
[49]
In the begining, without the super-jumpways, the universe of EVE did seem HUGE. I remember saying, at the time that any trip less than 30 jumps was like a walk in the park. At this time, seeing someone of one of the other races in your home empire was not a common sight, as the travel times were extensive. Ark and Bistot spawned in very low security systems in empire space and the rats were very nasty. Most of us developed the needed skill called Ninja Mining to survive mining ops.
Most people piloted their own races ships, because frankly it was insane to go 35 jumps just to get the skills and ships from the other races. Then the Super-Jumpway came into being and they homoginized the universe. A 70 jump round trip was now 20 jumps. People began to spread across the known galaxy with ease, and the vast universe began to quickly shrink.
I don't know why the Super Jumpways were implemented, perhaps to aid the people trying to earn a living through trade. I do think that the universe of EVE lost much of it's awe and uniqueness with their advent. You also lost a sence of racial community. As stated before the jumpways almost everyone seen was of your race, and as such a strong racial identity was created.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.01.29 11:58:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Xavier Arron
IMHO the devs need to tack on new empires round the outskirts of existing 0.0, leaving current highways in empire space.
This would provide the opportunity to create new and truly unique regions, with big swaths of 0.0 in between. Travelling from regions on opposite sides would require travelling from that region through 0.0 to empire, through empire, through 0.0 the other side and then into the region :)
Would make 0.0 / alliance space interesting :)
excellent idea!
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Torgrim
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Posted - 2005.01.29 23:45:00 -
[51]
I think it would be good of CCP could make couple of new Empire regions and open up the closed 0.0 regions.
I realy miss the time when i mined Gneiss in 0.4 system
"I have seen things that you only could dream about, i have been there" |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.30 00:21:00 -
[52]
What's most disenchanting about Eve in my opinion is that ships are so worthless. Every day dozens of Battleships get blown up. So many of them get blown up that people don't even bother to name them anymore. Here is a ship that is nearly a mile long, has thousands of crew, and does not have a name, because the pilot knows in certain areas of space the life expectancy of a battleship is less then a month.
Unfortunatly as always with MMORPGs once it's gone wrong you can't fix it, because the majority of the gamers want new stuff and don't care for old stuff being fixed first.
Instead of saying: We want battleships to become rare they say: We want Titans that cost a billion.
The problem usually lies with the community of the game, the devs probaply know exactly that the game didn't turn out the way they planed it, but you can't fix it with so many people that don't want to lose anything to make the overall game better...
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Archangel Deck
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Posted - 2005.01.30 00:41:00 -
[53]
Highways? need them
Instas? need them
why do i need them? because my RL eats alot of time, so i only get maybe a 10 hours a week to play
And i cant spend all that time traveling
One thing they could use would be the 0.0 between regions again
And maybe to make it interesting have the empires go to war, and they would attack anyone from the other race and u would be able to attack anyone of there race
as for the Alliances? dont worry pretty much every alliance is falling apart, with POS now someone can get right into the center of an alliance space and sit there and just laugh
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Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.01.30 00:45:00 -
[54]
Fire water burn!
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.30 01:56:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Aelius
Edited by: Aelius on 29/01/2005 05:56:58
Originally by: Torgrim
I rememberd when EVE was new and all flown around in frigates and the galaxy was HUGE.
There where no highways so it took awhile too get from Lum too Amarr.
You could fly thrue the space and dont see any people in like 20-30 systems.
0.0 space was closed so you dreamed about going there and explore all it riches.
Space was untaimed and unexplored.
Those where the days...
Now EVE is small very small, 0.0 space is no longer unexplored, its controlled by alliances.
The highway thrue Empire space is like Autobahn you can fly from one end of the Empire too another in a blink of an eye compared too the old days.
This is EVE once huge mystic place too live and fly thrue the spacelanes, now EVE universe is explored and a small place too live in.
I know the feeling, TRUST ME i know it. Long live the old galaxie. EVE is becoming a place for brainless idiots. Too easy too soon.
the gentelman abowe stated the whole issue into nuttshell
and i compleetly agree with it
if eve is to easy - the lifespan of enjoyable time will become shortter = less money for CCP... 
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.01.30 02:52:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Noriath on 30/01/2005 02:52:15
That's a double edged sword though, on the one hand people who enjoy Eve because there is still plenty of skills to get after a few months might feel more motivated if it's harder and harder to get the best stuff. On the other hand, the absoloute majority of MMORPG players want a game where they can train a character quickly, have several characters, and get to the top relatively fast.
I'm personally at the point where I'm ready to say that MMORPGs based on traditional character development are flawed from the start, because they will always inevitably lead to one or the other problem, either long term motivation doesn't exist because there is no place to go with a character after a while, or people get frustrated because they don't get to the top. Such games need to be more content and community driven in my opinion.
Why play a game where you spend a lot of time becoming rich powerful of neverending sources of wealth and power so you can use your wealth and power to fight people for no reason. It would make more sense to have a game where you fight people to take the power from them.
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