| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bronden Neopatus
   |
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:19:00 -
[1]
I am a carebear. I am happy to be a carebear. I never put my ship in danger so I never go to lowsec. When CCP fu**ed up Lvl5 by moving them to lowsec after "fixing" a "bug", I plain dismissed Lvl5 at all. Why? I can't risk and lose like 200 hours of gameplay to a guy with a cruiser and 6 friends. My ship is fit to PvE, and can't take a chance on PvP ships. I got eveything to lose (the fruit of 2 months of gameplay) and nothing to win (a reward worth 1% my ship's cost? Don't kid me...)
But, what if I coulf get an edge on PvP? What if attacking a mission runner going into a mission WAS dangerous and risky?
How? Let missioneers buy attack and defense bonus with LPs. And a SERIOUS bonus. Like, 10% bonus for the first ship, 20% for the second, 30% the third, 40% the 4th... adding 100% bonus to defense and aggro if ganked by 4, 150% bonus if ganked by 5, 210% if ganked by 6, 280% bonus if ganked by 7, et cetera. Each 10% bonus would cost, say, 5.000 LP from the corporation offering the mission. Would be available only at the destination system for the mission and only while the time bonus reward was active.
Alternatively, maybe missioneers could summon a support fleet (with a price tag for every ship size) to assist if ganked. Let the support fleet be drones with sleeper AI and target any player who targets or damages the mission runner. In any case, let missioneers be a serious threat to anyone ganking them whne going into a mission.
The serious risk of losing a ship worth billions must be equalized to the risk of attacking it. Gankers may simply flee if they want to preserve their ships from a hyper-bonused mission runner as described above. So far, with missioneers putting all the loss and pirates all the win, lowsec and whatever fluffy stuff CCP implements on it to try and populate the desert are plain useless. Neither lvl5 nor lvl6 nor unicorns crapping alloyed tritanium bars are worth the risk. I win, I just am were I was. I lose, and I must play for 2 months just to regain my loss... call that "balance"! 
I am not confident of this to happen ever, not even to be taken seriously. But certainly that would lower the "wall" that forbids people from venturing into lowsec unless they can do it with a corporation behind like a nanny.
|
Zabby Gabby
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:24:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
I never put my ship in danger
Nerf lvl 4 missions!
|
Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:24:00 -
[3]
Oh man you are going to get flamed so hard by all the "leet peeveepee'rs" for this post.
I don't agree with the LP for bonus thing, seems kinda immersion breaking and doesn't feel right. But the call for support thing seems cool.
Like say you're doing a mission for Federation Navy, and then some pirates come in. You have good standings and plenty of LP with FedNavy, so you pay some LP to purchase a squad of reinforcements. Seems cool anyways :)
|
Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:37:00 -
[4]
Your idea is fail and would backfire.
A PVPer would use this as a loophole to make their ship more powerful by just accepting missions for the sole purpose of increasing their stats. They can then gank you much easier.
|
Amdor Renevat
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:40:00 -
[5]
You are going to get alot of people talking down about your idea. I'm not sure why, but it seems most PVP folks think missions are 0 risk. I admit that they are low risk when compared to PVP, but on the other hand the rewards are much lower as well and have to be repeated to be worthwhile.
My question to you though is why is it necessary to protect someone only during a mission? You talk about a very expensive ship being killed, but it doesn't happen just in missions. What about gate camps in high sec where a group of low cost, high insurance payout, ships gank someone before concord can kill off the gankers? Should the mission runner have some additional protection travelling to and from missions?
The answer you are going to see the most is no, space should never be secure, there should always be risk. The reason you'll see some variation of that answer the most is because Eve attracts PVP focused individuals and those people are just not happy with two entire areas of the game being devoted to their choice. They want every bit of space to be theirs and they would rather drive players away rather than allow people who prefer PVE to have a safe place to enjoy the game.
Which is sad because more players would try out PVP and participate in it if we had a bigger player base. Not all high sec folks will remain exclusively in high sec, just like not all low/null folks stay exclusively in low/null. More players, more ways to play the game are healthier overall. Gank in low sec, gank in null sec. Let high sec be an area where the only reason you have to worry about being killed by another player is if you actively commit some kind of action that will flag you for PVP. At that point it's game on for the duration of the GCC.
|
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 23:01:00 -
[6]
I already said, the abbility to balance odds would be limited to only while the time bonus lasts (6 hours for a tough mission) and only at the target system and only against ships which you got an aggro on them. That can be implemented within the current mechanics and AI.
As for the inmersion matter, bonus is not very immersive but the support fleet part makes some sense, IMO. It's not realistic as all in all, if the corp has got a fleet, why send a capsuleer?, and also in real world lone lions are prey to hyena paks if chances favor the hyenas...
But this is a game and we are talking about making it funnier, or at least try to. God knows I've lost more than a billion ISK to PvE, but never lost more than a couple millions to PvP...
Also, let's turn up the cards: most "lowsec pvpers" are pu**ies who wouldn't dare to a fight where they could actually lose their ship. They dwell in lowsec because they haven't got the galls to go to nullsec or perform corporate fleet actions. I can't figure any lifeform lower than the ganker carebear pvpers polluting all of lowsec, all the "glorious" miner killers who dare to take on a single Marauders with as few as 10 BS and 2 logistics ships... 
|
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 23:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Amdor Renevat
You are going to get alot of people talking down about your idea. I'm not sure why, but it seems most PVP folks think missions are 0 risk. I admit that they are low risk when compared to PVP, but on the other hand the rewards are much lower as well and have to be repeated to be worthwhile.
My question to you though is why is it necessary to protect someone only during a mission? You talk about a very expensive ship being killed, but it doesn't happen just in missions. What about gate camps in high sec where a group of low cost, high insurance payout, ships gank someone before concord can kill off the gankers? Should the mission runner have some additional protection travelling to and from missions?
The answer you are going to see the most is no, space should never be secure, there should always be risk. The reason you'll see some variation of that answer the most is because Eve attracts PVP focused individuals and those people are just not happy with two entire areas of the game being devoted to their choice. They want every bit of space to be theirs and they would rather drive players away rather than allow people who prefer PVE to have a safe place to enjoy the game.
Which is sad because more players would try out PVP and participate in it if we had a bigger player base. Not all high sec folks will remain exclusively in high sec, just like not all low/null folks stay exclusively in low/null. More players, more ways to play the game are healthier overall. Gank in low sec, gank in null sec. Let high sec be an area where the only reason you have to worry about being killed by another player is if you actively commit some kind of action that will flag you for PVP. At that point it's game on for the duration of the GCC.
Serious PvPers got what they want: FW, WH and nullsec. Whiners are lowsec ganker carebear PvPers who grow bored without targets because most players are either too smart to get into lowsec or are too dangerous (aka REAL Pvpers) to mess with them...
|
Zxmagus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 23:07:00 -
[8]
eve is a team sport get used to it, 3 pvp ships vs 1 pve ship the gankers should always win.
|
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2011.02.12 23:08:00 -
[9]
Immersion breaking? I think not.
Consider this, every ship you sink is regularly manned there is no pod pilot over there controlling the hostile npc ships, your ship wipes these guys out like its no problem.
So what happens when you have to fight a ship able to match you and you're not prepared well you lose.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
|
Valarre
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 02:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zabby Gabby
Quote:
I never put my ship in danger
Nerf lvl 4 missions!
Shut up ***.
|
|
|
Ragnar256
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 02:36:00 -
[11]
How about inventing a setup to take on both PVE and some PVP. A battlecruiser seems to be the favored gank ship, so having good tracking and very high DPS can give the ganker quite a shock as well as blitzing said mission.
|
Takrow Matoris
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:16:00 -
[12]
Well if you really want to do lvl 5s bring some friends. Plus most Lvl 5s can't be done alone, anyway, so having like 3-6 people with you to do it, plus a few with pvp fits would actually help you out. The other thing, going to lowsec with or with out a corp isn't as bad as it sounds. It all depends on what you know. If you know of a system that has alot of pvp in it, then stay out of it. it's really that simply.
Racing to the end, only to get splattered at the end is soo uncool. |
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 08:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ragnar256
How about inventing a setup to take on both PVE and some PVP. A battlecruiser seems to be the favored gank ship, so having good tracking and very high DPS can give the ganker quite a shock as well as blitzing said mission.
That doesn't works this way. A good PvP ship can't make missions and a poor PvP ship is as much dead meat as a PvE ship. Missions require average to high tanking for a long while (say, tanking 400-500 dps for about 15 minutes) as the point is to kill a lot of ships without losing your tank. PvP is about killing a few targets before you and your buddies run out of tank. PvE use active tanks as they're the largest tanks you can get, so in a PvP vs PvE battle the guy with the neutralizer wins and the guy with the active tank is dead. Whereas a passive tank must be really really really good to last through a mission, and anyway that comes to the price of lower DPS = never will get through the collective tank of a PvP gang before being dead.
As I said, in real world, a pack of hyenas will take on a lone lion if they can win. But also in the real world allowing your mercenaries to die in a backstreet brawl against 7 thugs rather than help them live to fulfill their missions is a poor policy.
|
Valarre
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 08:54:00 -
[14]
Agreed 100%. It is a bad policy for ccp to leave missioners to the wolves without making these missions more worthwhile. The sad part is, these missions are geared for solo player pay, but require a group (to be safe from pvp'ers) in order to finish. How is that worth it? We just finished a lvl 5 mission yay! What do we get? We get to split the rewards 2 fold or 3 fold to the point where what you get is peanuts. No wonder so many people stay in high sec to run lvl 4's.
|
CarnegieSteel
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 09:01:00 -
[15]
Im not sure how you run your missions, but highsec level 4 missions make way more money than most PvP, for way, way less risk.
|
Gallente Citizen2515145
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 09:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CarnegieSteel
Im not sure how you run your missions, but highsec level 4 missions make way more money than most PvP, for way, way less risk.
Congratulations you get the most useless comment of the day award. Have a nice day tard.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 09:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I never put my ship in danger so I never go to lowsec. When CCP fu**ed up Lvl5 by moving them to lowsec after "fixing" a "bug", I plain dismissed Lvl5 at all......... snip.....
So you want easy money and a way of making it in safety?
I'm happy they moved level 5 missions to lo-sec, not because it hands us more targets, but because it limits the likes of people like you to farm them easily.
Hi sec is meant to be safe, not safer and it's already possible to make masses of ISK in relative safety there.
By your reckoning I should be able to do the same if I have an expensive fit Supercarrier because:
'The serious risk of losing a ship worth billions must be equalized to the risk of attacking it.'
But Eve doesn't and shouldn't work like that.
Just because I spent billions on a ship/fit, doesn't give me a reason to have special consideration other than what the ship/fit gives.
It's an MMO for a reason and if I decide to use expensive fit ships, I must understand a few things first.
- 1. Chances are I will lose it.
- 2. Can I afford to lose it?
I would also mention having friends with you in, a gang. But looking at your idea, that would be against your ideals. You obviously want all the cake and eat it. Alone. GLWT
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 10:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I never put my ship in danger so I never go to lowsec. When CCP fu**ed up Lvl5 by moving them to lowsec after "fixing" a "bug", I plain dismissed Lvl5 at all......... snip.....
So you want easy money and a way of making it in safety?
I'm happy they moved level 5 missions to lo-sec, not because it hands us more targets, but because it limits the likes of people like you to farm them easily.
Hi sec is meant to be safe, not safer and it's already possible to make masses of ISK in relative safety there.
By your reckoning I should be able to do the same if I have an expensive fit Supercarrier because:
'The serious risk of losing a ship worth billions must be equalized to the risk of attacking it.'
But Eve doesn't and shouldn't work like that.
Just because I spent billions on a ship/fit, doesn't give me a reason to have special consideration other than what the ship/fit gives.
It's an MMO for a reason and if I decide to use expensive fit ships, I must understand a few things first.
- 1. Chances are I will lose it.
- 2. Can I afford to lose it?
I would also mention having friends with you in, a gang. But looking at your idea, that would be against your ideals. You obviously want all the cake and eat it. Alone. GLWT
I don't want anything. Whenever I grow bored of missions I will look for my contacts ingame and get into nullsec PvP with a friendly corp, and meanwhile I am fine and dandy doing lvl4 in hisec; I don't want to run Lvl5. But some people seem to be worried that lowsec is unpopulated and IMHO CCP completely failed to grasp Psychology 101 when figuring out Lvl5s. It's obvious we don't need more faucets so pumping up the rewards for Lvl5 so it was worth risking a multi-billion ship or doing them with your friends is pointless. CCP deemed bad enough the few Lvl5 being farmed in hisec so a bigger faucet is a no-no.
What is needed is a modicum of actual safety for a price, to balance the odds. I said above, me losing my marauder versus you fleeing if things go wrong are not fair odds. But me blowing the beejezus out of you because I got a lotta LP and you don't is a fair deal. My wealth vs your sheer numbers.
Also notice how I am not telling people what to do. I am not asking any deep change into dynamics and the only victims of my proposal would be carebear gankers, who would see their losses rise. It would suck to sit on a neut ship or a logi and get hit by a bunch of Sleeper-like drone BS chewing on your lower resist. It would add a whole new meaning to "let's hunt mission runners".
That wouldn't help miners and traders, though, unless they could "hire" assistance from their favorite NPC corp, or CONCORD themselves...
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I don't want anything.
Your OP suggests different.
Let's face it, if you didn't want anything, you would be here. 
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I don't want anything.
Your OP suggests different.
Let's face it, if you didn't want anything, you would be here.
And trolololo goes the troll.
|
|
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I don't want anything.
Your OP suggests different.
Let's face it, if you didn't want anything, you would be here.
And trolololo goes the troll.
You are upset... awww bless. 
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 13/02/2011 11:43:24
s like the what the OP wants is for the mission rats to have a chance of engaging the pirate that warps into the mission, rather than just mindlessly blasting away on the mission-runner.
This occurs with Sleepers. So, simple. Give mission rats Sleeper AI and capabilities.
|
Ragnar256
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 13/02/2011 11:29:49
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
I don't want anything.
Your OP suggests different.
Let's face it, if you didn't want anything, you would be here.
And trolololo goes the troll.
You are upset... awww bless.
Edit: It seems you don't like people disagreeing with your argument, maybe the forum is not a place for you. You are definitely risk averse.
the united aren't only "expert" gate campers , but apparently like to troll players who think PvE is the only way to go. aww bless.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ragnar256
the united aren't only "expert" gate campers, but apparently like to troll players who think PvE is the only way to go. aww bless.
Confirming this, including the aww bless.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Goose99
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 20:30:00 -
[25]
Before mission scanning, there were carebears in lowsec. Then it got implemented, and they left.
|
Daedalus Arcova
Gallente
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 21:55:00 -
[26]
Quote:
The serious benefit of flying a ship worth billions must be equalized to the risk of losing it.
Fixed.
Play on your own, die on your own. That's how it is. If you want protection, you can join that remarkable thing called a 'Player Corporation' and run missions as a gang, in ships capable of holding their own in PVP. Just because you spend all day fighting NPCs, taking missions from NPC agents, all alone in your NPC corp, doesn't mean that NPCs should spawn to save you and your officer-fit Golem when you get jumped by players who understand the concept of an MMO.
I simply can't understand the mentality that drives carebears to grind missions all day when all they spend their billions of ISK on are nicer ships and mods for faster mission grinding, ad infinitum. Sooner or later, you're going to hit a ceiling. What are you going to do once you've achieved your dream of flying that max-skilled, fully officer-fit Golem? Seems to me that the gankers are doing you a favour by giving you something to work back towards when those hundreds of hours of ISK farming go up in smoke.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 21:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Valarre
Originally by: Zabby Gabby
Quote:
I never put my ship in danger
Nerf lvl 4 missions!
Shut up ***.
Eve is based on risk/reward. If he is not putting his ship in any risk he should not be getting any reward.
|
Bronden Neopatus
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 22:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Daedalus Arcova
Quote:
The serious benefit of flying a ship worth billions must be equalized to the risk of losing it.
Fixed.
Play on your own, die on your own. That's how it is. If you want protection, you can join that remarkable thing called a 'Player Corporation' and run missions as a gang, in ships capable of holding their own in PVP. Just because you spend all day fighting NPCs, taking missions from NPC agents, all alone in your NPC corp, doesn't mean that NPCs should spawn to save you and your officer-fit Golem when you get jumped by players who understand the concept of an MMO.
I simply can't understand the mentality that drives carebears to grind missions all day when all they spend their billions of ISK on are nicer ships and mods for faster mission grinding, ad infinitum. Sooner or later, you're going to hit a ceiling. What are you going to do once you've achieved your dream of flying that max-skilled, fully officer-fit Golem? Seems to me that the gankers are doing you a favour by giving you something to work back towards when those hundreds of hours of ISK farming go up in smoke.
Blah blah blah, play EVE my way, blah blah blah.
Funny how everybody knows how is the way to play this sandbox... exactly the way they do!
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 22:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
Funny how everybody knows how is the way to play this sandbox... exactly the way they do!
àand thus why your idea doesn't have much merit. |
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 22:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
Blah blah blah, play EVE my way, blah blah blah.
Funny how everybody knows how is the way to play this sandbox... exactly the way they do!
Ok I have a serious set of questions for you:
Do you think you could run a mission in low sec without dieing?
Other people run missions in low sec every single day, what is it you think these people have that you don't have?
There are a lot of people who enjoy the rules the way they are laid out right now, why should they be pushed off what they currently enjoy so that you can have your way? |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |