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Danna Hande
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Posted - 2011.02.13 11:33:00 -
[1]
So, lets say i have perfect gunnery skills and Assault Ships V. Is there any use of Retribution at PvP gangs, either close range pulse shredder or beam snipper?
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.02.13 12:19:00 -
[2]
think of retri as a mobile turret platform and not a frigate per se.
---
 Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2011.02.13 12:25:00 -
[3]
1. train minmatar frigates to 5
2. buy wolf/jaguar
3. ???
4. profit
♥
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.02.13 12:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 13/02/2011 12:46:30
Well let's add this up shall we:
- You're more expensive than a cruiser
- You do less dps than a cruiser
- You don't actually do much more dps than most AFs, and in fact do less than some
- You contribute nothing to the gang in the way of tackle or EWAR support.
What exactly is the point? With the same skillset you could be flying a Crusader or Slicer which are both more useful, or with rockets a Vengeance which is a great ship.
Edit: And the Malediction, obviously.
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 12:48:00 -
[5]
Its a fantastic pvp ship - one of the best assult frigs out there along with the vengence. It lacks tackle though, so its usd as dps in gangs - but in that role - there are few ships that match its gank and tank. Minmatar and gallente frigs are better in solo situations bcause they have tackle - but if you are in a gang where tackle is already taken care of, the pulse retri is tough to beat. I fly it a lot and absolutly love it - and in a well coordinated pair with a tackle partner - it will shred eveything with relative ease.
Beam setups are better with the coer (which also lacks tackle - but can fit more guns and get the the tracking bonus) - but if you are looking for a melt your fac dps frigate, ffew can match the retri.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.02.13 12:54:00 -
[6]
Quote:
there are few ships that match its gank
Really? I can think of several.
Quote:
the pulse retri is tough to beat
Nope, it's really not.
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Ultim8Evil
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.13 14:43:00 -
[7]
AC Veng > Pulse Retri
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Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 15:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Laerise on 13/02/2011 15:14:56
fail double post :(
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Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 15:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Laerise on 13/02/2011 15:16:24
Edited by: Laerise on 13/02/2011 15:07:34
[ Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 13/02/2011 13:06:53
Quote:
there are few ships that match its gank
Really? I can think of several.
In fact off the top of my head here:
Enyo, Ishkur, Taranis, Wolf, Harpy.
I was going to leave the Vengeance off here, but I checked your killboard and saw that your friend flying one beats you quite often in DPS. (lol)
Well, well. You aparently have no clue how to get fights with an af due, good job at emberassing yourself.
the retri does very good dps at all ranges, unlike your 'gank' afs it can project the hurt up to 20km. its also able to do this and then swap to close range gank in the blink of an eye. unlike the wolf and enyo it also tanks like a mofo.
i kind of doubt an enyo or wolf could survive long enough to kill a vaga in an af duo - or a rupture for that matter.
heres a tip for free, PIE usually has a clue in regards to amarr ships.
just fyi, this is what a good duo can do - the retri jumped in once i had the tackle and abd into range comfortably - and survived easily, pumping out shots along the way. http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=182648
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MakeAPoint
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Posted - 2011.02.13 15:31:00 -
[10]
The biggest "problem" the Retribution has is that it is locked into the EM/Th damage types, but the new conflagration goes a long way towards mitigating that.
Nothing comes close when in a gang as said, range projection equal to twice the range of all comers allows you ample room to manoeuvre to minimize transversals.
Other than that it struggles with weight issues like all AFs and its reliance on tackle partner .. but since Eve is not a solo endeavour 
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
AC Veng > Pulse Retri
You are missing out. The new rocks are quite something :D
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 15:52:00 -
[11]
The reason the vengence outdamages me is because minmatar are naturally tanked against me while the vengence is much more flexible in terms of damage type. Its just the way it is.
However this is not to say that the retri is a poor performer, and I stand by my exprience that the retribution is like a shark - its very well adapted for gank and tank and is a pleasure to fly. Its a simple ship in many ways and reprisents the pinnicle of Amarr design in terms of gank and tank and I really do not understand how anyone can say its not good at what it does. Sure there are comprable ships, but the retri stands right at the top for a combat AF.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.02.13 16:14:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Sure there are comprable ships
Ships that do tank and gank just as well if not better and bring support of some kind to the gang.
Quote:
the retri does very good dps at all ranges
Passable dps you mean. It's really nothing special at close range compared to the other frigates I just listed off and with scorch it moves firmly into "meh" territory.
If a ship is capable of literally nothing but shooting, I expect it to be at least much better than the competition at that. Unfortunately: the Retribution isn't.
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.02.13 17:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 13/02/2011 17:25:29
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Enyo, Ishkur, Taranis, Wolf, Harpy.
You may want to consider the fact that the Retribution does its DPS at over 20km instead of at, say, 2km.
Retribution isn't a good ship, but it's not because it's not good at the 'frigate sized DPS application platform' - it's that that's not really a role worth being good at.
P.S. to fix Retribution, add a damage bonus and a 5th turret 
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.13 17:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
If a ship is capable of literally nothing but shooting...
30-50% more raw dps than other AFs, only the neutron Gallente hulls are higher but not by much and they don't have the 6km+ range where that damage can be dealt, not to mention no hope in hell of projecting anything but evil stares beyond scram/web range.
So as a pure damage platform is pretty much unequalled in its class.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.02.13 17:59:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Rubbish about "long range"
- Long range
- DPS better than other AFs
Pick one. You don't get both with the Retri. The only way it can match the frigates I listed is with close range ammo.
Quote:
pretty much unequalled
Not by a longshot.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.13 18:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Pick one....
You must not know how to fit and/or fly them.
Which one of the AF's is it exactly that you think outperforms the Retribution when it comes to damage/projection?
With one damage mod and navy ammo:
Retribution: 150dps+@20km or 200dps+@6km.
Neutron Enyo/Harpy (as if they are ever flown) gets ~215dps@2km with no real ranged option.
Neutron Taranis gets ~200dps@1km.
Hawk gets ~130dps@0-13km.
Wolf gets ~200dps@<1km, Jaguar gets ~150dps@1km.
So you are absolutely right, provided you have some way to not die and keep range/transversal as low as ship models allow (ie. 1-2km and 0) there are ships that outperform it.
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Telvani
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Posted - 2011.02.13 18:27:00 -
[17]
I can't think of a single ship the retribution could solo, and it's pretty useless in gangs, its role is so limited its pretty much useless. |
Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 19:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Telvani
I can't think of a single ship the retribution could solo, and it's pretty useless in gangs, its role is so limited its pretty much useless.
its kind of disheartening to read uninformed comments like this. for the job its meant to do the retri does very well. in an af gang it provides survivable and flexible dps. once you have two or three dedicated tacklers you dont need anymore tackle - and in the end an af gang wants to kill its targets and then get out. i dont mind the flexibiliy of the ishkur - but in the end a zealot is a more reliable damage dealer than an ishtar and the same is true for the retri.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.13 19:17:00 -
[19]
Retribution has no match in terms of DPS/range/tank when it engages anything but Minmatar T2, then again, what else have...
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Dorn Val
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Posted - 2011.02.14 07:20:00 -
[20]
Maybe a little off topic, but if you really want to have fun then take a Retribution into a Guristas Lookout -absolutely love that ship!
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Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.14 07:33:00 -
[21]
the extra DPS is irrelevant if your enemy is free to leave any time
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.14 08:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ephemeron
the extra DPS is irrelevant if your enemy is free to leave any time
Which is why you fly it with a gang or partner. Personally I loved the ship when I flew it as it chewed up any frig/drone/fighter that got in its way and it is one of the most surviveable ships I have flown.
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Ravenesa
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2011.02.15 01:20:00 -
[23]
1. In terms of PvP the Ret is NOT a solo ship. It is a gun platform for gang work
2. When you are in a wolf pack of AF's and fight larger things, BC's hulls in particular, you will run into a fair amount of shield buffered targets. The Ret applies much DPS to them.
3. The Ret is capable of being a cap stable Beam platform that can do close to 3km and has an optimal of over 40km. It shoots down frigs and kills drones with ease. I've popped tackle ships before they could actually land tackle and realised too late they were goign to die.
4. It makes a damn good PvE ratting ship in Sansha space.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.15 03:42:00 -
[24]
The Retribution is one of the best pvp frigs in the game... people assume they can just run away if they end up losing... till they can't.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
captain skinback
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Posted - 2011.02.15 04:28:00 -
[25]
volunteer to scout for your roaming gang
**** off your fc
thats probably the best way to use a retribution
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.15 06:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ephemeron
the extra DPS is irrelevant if your enemy is free to leave any time
Which is why you fly it with a gang or partner. Personally I loved the ship when I flew it as it chewed up any frig/drone/fighter that got in its way and it is one of the most surviveable ships I have flown.
Or you could just bring a ship that doesn't suck and have twice as much tackle (useful if you engage multiple targets at once) instead of using the rest of your fleet to compensate for your terrible ship.
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Death Merchant
United Mining And Distribution
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Posted - 2011.02.15 08:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Val'Dore
The Retribution is one of the best pvp frigs in the game... people assume they can just run away if they end up losing... till they can't.
This^^ I have found that if you are a frig and you engange, by the time you decide to disengage or warp it's too late. Excluding ishkur's of course.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.15 09:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ephemeron
the extra DPS is irrelevant if your enemy is free to leave any time
Which is why you fly it with a gang or partner. Personally I loved the ship when I flew it as it chewed up any frig/drone/fighter that got in its way and it is one of the most surviveable ships I have flown.
Or you could just bring a ship that doesn't suck and have twice as much tackle (useful if you engage multiple targets at once) instead of using the rest of your fleet to compensate for your terrible ship.
Because having 25 tackle ships rather than 24 is going to make all the difference
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.02.15 10:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Val'Dore
The Retribution is one of the best pvp frigs in the game... people assume they can just run away if they end up losing... till they can't.
Heated guns for the win. New conflag is ideal for when they point nose away in preparation of escape as well
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Swifo
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.02.15 13:19:00 -
[30]
i see a lot of hate out there for this ship. Personally i love it. Its cheap and if set up right it preforms really well. I have a fit here which i use. Now, i use low grade slaves and the 3% armor hp implant. This ship has 4100 armor (4510 in gang) has 18,611 ehp (20,154 gang) and does 207 dps, 238 overloaded/. The only downside to this ship is its 1 mid slot!! :( common ccp, be nice and buff it a bit. 1 more would be sweeeet.
[Retribution,FW]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1MN Afterburner II
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
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