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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:00:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Tippia
I see the term 'market' is unknown to you.
Please stop using words you do not understand...
Trade floor has nothing to do with consumers. You are mistaken Buying for Consuming which are not the same.
Consumer does not compete with anyone. It is an individual that uses goods and services provided by producers. The key word is use - they consume as they are not trading purchased goods for profit and do not add any additional value to the commodity.
All they do is to decide if they want to Buy or Not for the offered price.
To make it easier to comprehend:
Once you finish at work where you generated some service or goods, you go to the mall and buy milk for your cat and corn for yourself. At that moment you are not generating any goods or service, you are not producing anything - you just consume goods the economy has generated depending on how people decide to Buy or Not to buy.
Only ones that are competing are those that needs to Sell something. They have to Sell so they can trade their produced goods or services for money that they can Spent(consume) - ie. buying milk for their cat.
Hope that helps... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:05:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/02/2011 15:06:21
Originally by: Kepakh
Trade floor has nothing to do with consumers. You areI have mistaken Buying for Consuming which are not the same.
Exactly. So why are do you keep mixing the two up?
I keep repeating this in the hopes that you will read it at some point: the way the EVE market is set up, everyone is competing. There are no consumers, only traders. Competition is built into everything. |
Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tippia
There are no consumers, only traders.
The system cannot consist of traders/producers only as there would be no faucet for goods, no one buying final products.
Tell CCP that their Consumer Pirice Index they keep monitoring is bull**** because there are no consumers in EVE.
Hopeless dumbass...
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 14/02/2011 15:42:05
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Tippia
There are no consumers, only traders.
The system cannot consist of traders/producers only as there would be no faucet for goods, no one buying final products.
Tell CCP that their Consumer Pirice Index they keep monitoring is bull**** because there are no consumers in EVE.
Hopeless dumbass...
You're being pedantic you moron.
Obviously people consume goods, but before they do so, they trade (i.e. acquire) those goods. This is competition because they may be using buy orders to get the best price they can or they may be buying from sell orders, but still going after the cheapest one they can get.
The point is there is competition in the entire circle.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 16:04:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/02/2011 16:07:58
Originally by: Kepakh
The system cannot consist of traders/producers only as there would be no faucet for goods, no one buying final products.
You're still mixing up two completely different systems. One is the trading floor (which is PvP), and the other is the use (which, incidentally, is also PvP). If you think for a second that the market isn't PvP in every way, you fundamentally misunderstood everything about how EVE works. The market is by far the most PvP:ish entities in this PvP-centric game.
The code makes it impossible to use the market without engaging in PvP.
Quote:
Tell CCP that their Consumer Pirice Index they keep monitoring is bull**** because there are no consumers in EVE.
Because CPI is the name of the metric, not of the functionality.
Look. If you lack the cognitive ability to analyse and separate these very fundamental, entirely obvious, and thoroughly crucial concepts, you have no business discussing playing EVE. So shush and let people with at least the slightest grasp on the realities of the topic talk. You might accidentally learn something.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Kepakh
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
You're being pedantic you moron.
I am might tend to be pedantic, maybe a moron but Tippia has no idea what she talks about.
Enough said:
Originally by: Tippia
Because CPI is the name of the metric, not of the functionality.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 16:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kepakh
I am might tend to be pedantic, maybe a moron but Tippia has no idea what she talks about.
You mean apart from being right about how the market works, whereas you have amply demonstrated that you don't understand why it's exactly that: a market.
The fact of the matter is this: the buyers in EVE compete. They compete with other buyers and with the sellers. They cannot avoid doing this due to how the market is coded. They could conceivably avoid it by using station trades, but we're not discussing those now are we?
The problem is that you define consumers as non-competitors, and thus you have a choice: either there are no consumers in EVE, or consumers in EVE are not what you think they are. Pick your poison.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 16:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: XXSketchxx
You're being pedantic you moron.
I am might tend to be pedantic, maybe a moron but Tippia has no idea what she talks about.
Enough said:
Originally by: Tippia
Because CPI is the name of the metric, not of the functionality.
Did you like just finish up an Econ 101 class and are now trying to prove your prowess?
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Did you like just finish up an Econ 101 class and are now trying to prove your prowess?
Nope, but Tippia is writing new history of economics here.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:21:00 -
[40]
This is now an Economy thread.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:25:00 -
[41]
To the OP:
I fully agree with you, however, the reason I believe CCP did it like this was to prevent people ninjaing rewards by not participating in the actual fighting. However, of course rewards should be paid out according to effort - for example in relation to the ammount of dps done, ships destroyed, or something else.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:39:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/02/2011 17:40:35
Originally by: Kepakh
Nope, but Tippia is writing new history of economics here.
In what way? You are the one who wants to define words as something they are not.
The facts remain the same: buyers on the EVE market compete because the market mechanic is such that you cannot use the market without competing.
Btw, have you checked what that CPI consists of? It's not exactly "consumer" products, by your definitionà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Valarre
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 17:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tippia
It makes complete sense: it's competitive PvE ù you need to do it better than the other guys. It's the way PvE in EVE should work.
This in my opinion is utter nonsense. This is a gawd damn game, it's not like you are competing to be a ceo of a damn fortune 500 company in real life. People need to be getting the rewards they diserve for the time they put in. The payout system for incursion is by far the worst system I've seen put in place since this game first started.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Valarre
Originally by: Tippia
It makes complete sense: it's competitive PvE ù you need to do it better than the other guys. It's the way PvE in EVE should work.
This in my opinion is utter nonsense. This is a gawd damn game, it's not like you are competing to be a ceo of a damn fortune 500 company in real life.
yeah cause games can't be competitive 
Quote:
People need to be getting the rewards they diserve for the time they put in. The payout system for incursion is by far the worst system I've seen put in place since this game first started.
Go to low sec and do incursions then. I'm sure the payout system will work much better there considering there will only be one fleet alive (if any) at the end
In high sec, things are going to be very competitive and rewards tight. The most efficient fleets will get the rewards. Get over it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:55:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/02/2011 17:56:09
Originally by: Valarre
This in my opinion is utter nonsense. This is a gawd damn game,
So are Monopoly and Trivial Pursuit and Settlers and Risk and [etc]. They're all about winning as well, and losing generally means getting wiped out and getting nothing.
Quote:
People need to be getting the rewards they diserve for the time they put in.
They get the rewards they deserve. The problem seems to be that they cannot calculate whether or not they're up for the task of deserving them.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Valarre
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 18:06:00 -
[46]
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second. That is dead wrong. They did all the work, the other fleet didn't. It amazes me that CCP has put in such a bastardly bass ackwards system that allows this type of thing to happen. You guys who agree with this system, remove your mouth from the dev's weenus and look around at all of threads posted on the forums about how terrible of a system it is. Maybe if you weren't so far up CCP's bum eating hershey kisses you'd figure it out.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Valarre
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second. That is dead wrong. They did all the work, the other fleet didn't. It amazes me that CCP has put in such a bastardly bass ackwards system that allows this type of thing to happen. You guys who agree with this system, remove your mouth from the dev's weenus and look around at all of threads posted on the forums about how terrible of a system it is. Maybe if you weren't so far up CCP's bum eating hershey kisses you'd figure it out.
What are you 12 years old?
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:15:00 -
[48]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Valarre
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second. That is dead wrong. They did all the work, the other fleet didn't. It amazes me that CCP has put in such a bastardly bass ackwards system that allows this type of thing to happen. You guys who agree with this system, remove your mouth from the dev's weenus and look around at all of threads posted on the forums about how terrible of a system it is. Maybe if you weren't so far up CCP's bum eating hershey kisses you'd figure it out.
What are you 12 years old?
The truth hurts doesn't it? Yet it makes me 12 somehow...
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Valarre
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second. That is dead wrong. They did all the work, the other fleet didn't. It amazes me that CCP has put in such a bastardly bass ackwards system that allows this type of thing to happen. You guys who agree with this system, remove your mouth from the dev's weenus and look around at all of threads posted on the forums about how terrible of a system it is. Maybe if you weren't so far up CCP's bum eating hershey kisses you'd figure it out.
What are you 12 years old?
My guess is 11.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 18:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Valarre
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second.
Sure it is. They screwed up and didn't finish the job properly. Why should they get rewarded for doing it wrong?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:22:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Horizonist on 14/02/2011 18:22:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Valarre
Listen, you guys are wrong. It is not right to stiff 60 man fleets from pay for their efforts just because another fleet came in and ganked a mothership at the last second.
Sure it is. They screwed up and didn't finish the job properly. Why should they get rewarded for doing it wrong?
How is getting ninjaed at the last possible second of a well planned fleet op "doing it wrong"?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Horizonist
How is getting ninjaed at the last possible second of a well planned fleet op "doing it wrong"?
They didn't plan for an obvious contingency.
Oh, and the stuff that can be "ninjaed at the last possible second" can also be defended and/or stolen back at lastûpossibleûsecond+1.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 18:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Horizonist
How is getting ninjaed at the last possible second of a well planned fleet op "doing it wrong"?
They didn't plan for an obvious contingency.
Oh, and the stuff that can be "ninjaed at the last possible second" can also be defended and/or stolen back at lastûpossibleûsecond+1.
So anything that does not include perfect planning and absolute anticipation and contingency plans for all possible risks should not be rewarded?
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:34:00 -
[54]
Could I at least have a little bit of what you freaks are smoking?
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Horizonist
How is getting ninjaed at the last possible second of a well planned fleet op "doing it wrong"?
They didn't plan for an obvious contingency.
Oh, and the stuff that can be "ninjaed at the last possible second" can also be defended and/or stolen back at lastûpossibleûsecond+1.
So anything that does not include perfect planning and absolute anticipation and contingency plans for all possible risks should not be rewarded?
That sounds like a game I know, called Eve-Online.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Jacquelin Ayalin
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:37:00 -
[56]
Well, Id have to disagree about pvp, everything about it is just cheap tactics, not competitive gameplay.
Very rarely is pvp a mutual activity between both parties.
Most of the time, pvp is some cheeseball ambush initiated by someone who is camping a stargate (ironically, they usually go after the ones who are autopiloting and are in some sort of indy ship). Of course, there is also the cheeseballs that will attack a miner because they know that miners are always vastly outgunned compared to a decent killing vessel.
If pvp in Eve were competitive, we would see some sort of battlegrounds where competitions were held to allow for people to mutually dual each other. A mechanic could exist in the game where I could '/duel' someone and the game would allow us to fight in high sec with no penalties provided the other person agreed to the dialog box that would pop up (the fight would stop automatically when one player had one HP left on their hull - thus preventing the other ship from being blown up) and if people wanted to duel to the death, a '/duelhc' option could exist.
Im sorry, pvp isnt competitive, its about people ganking other unsuspecting players in 99% of all situations.
'Que all the gankers to start their defensive rants now'
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Horizonist
How is getting ninjaed at the last possible second of a well planned fleet op "doing it wrong"?
They didn't plan for an obvious contingency.
Oh, and the stuff that can be "ninjaed at the last possible second" can also be defended and/or stolen back at lastûpossibleûsecond+1.
So anything that does not include perfect planning and absolute anticipation and contingency plans for all possible risks should not be rewarded?
That sounds like a game I know, called Eve-Online.
I am not sure you got it right then, since said game does allow you to fail and still reap great rewards.
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Valarre
Could I at least have a little bit of what you freaks are smoking?
You are a fantastic troll.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Well, Id have to disagree about pvp, everything about it is just cheap tactics, not competitive gameplay.
Very rarely is pvp a mutual activity between both parties.
Most of the time, pvp is some cheeseball ambush initiated by someone who is camping a stargate (ironically, they usually go after the ones who are autopiloting and are in some sort of indy ship). Of course, there is also the cheeseballs that will attack a miner because they know that miners are always vastly outgunned compared to a decent killing vessel.
If pvp in Eve were competitive, we would see some sort of battlegrounds where competitions were held to allow for people to mutually dual each other. A mechanic could exist in the game where I could '/duel' someone and the game would allow us to fight in high sec with no penalties provided the other person agreed to the dialog box that would pop up (the fight would stop automatically when one player had one HP left on their hull - thus preventing the other ship from being blown up) and if people wanted to duel to the death, a '/duelhc' option could exist.
Im sorry, pvp isnt competitive, its about people ganking other unsuspecting players in 99% of all situations.
'Que all the gankers to start their defensive rants now'
You are describing ship combat pvp, which is one of the many forms of pvp in Eve. You consent to it every time you undock a ship on Tranquility.
Pvp is player versus player. This is not limited to ship on ship violence.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.14 18:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Mag's
That sounds like a game I know, called Eve-Online.
I am not sure you got it right then, since said game does allow you to fail and still reap great rewards.
I didn't say it was perfect.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
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