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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 00:39:00 - [1] If this game is to continue, one major thing MUST change. Their are a number of things that are ruining the game for many people, however this factor is effecting the majority of pilots. I am of course talking about macros. Roughly 1/3 of the goods that are on the market have been acquired through macro bots, which destroys almost all of the profit margins in our economy. this fact is presented most prominently in T1 production, which has been more of less completely destroyed by the huge influx of minerals from macro bots. Now i don't want to point fingers at anyone in particular but the Russians are renowned for using macro bots for mining and mission running, along with many other alliances and corps. Normally i hate the idea of hulkageddon, people deliberately ruining someones day for fun, but stopping the macro miners is actually a legit service to the community. If only there was a more permanent solution that didn't **** so many people off..
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.02.21 00:44:00 - [2] Finished that movie yet? Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 00:46:00 - [3] No i've been in Africa, so i couldn't really work on it, but it's coming along nicely..
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.21 00:52:00 - [4] IBTL and the mod linking to http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1426740 Where they hope to let the talk of botting die
trenny jr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:06:00 - [5] nevar stop crying Originally by: Alticius Espionicus Ankhesentapemkah: the Sarah Palin of EVE. [00:18:49] Lady Spank > /emote squiggles
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:08:00 - [6] Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 21/02/2011 01:09:16 About macros?? F**k you i'll cry if i want to
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:14:00 - [7] I'd still like to know why CCP can't manage to detect bot scripting of ships and mods. Even with some randomness added into the more advanced scripts, they're pathetically easy to spot. And yet they continue... Face it - CCP really doesn't give a ****. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:16:00 - [8] I totally agree with you. They really don't care.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:18:00 - [9] Mining is made for botters - who wants to watch grass grow and pay money for it? Seriously, mining has to be improved.
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:20:00 - [10] This too is completely true.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Mining is made for botters - who wants to watch grass grow and pay money for it? Seriously, mining has to be improved. You could always make mining more interactive, but really - short of introducing captchas for each loading process, it's not going to stop bots from automating it. Only CCP can get rid of botters. I mean how many times have we all seen incredibly lame bot scripts that do exactly the same thing over and over? They don't even bother introducing some timing differences, or randomness into their scripts. They don't need to. Because CCP. Does. Nothing. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:29:00 - [12] I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay.
Lynx Australis	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Mining is made for botters - who wants to watch grass grow and pay money for it? Seriously, mining has to be improved. New mining system has been asked weekly basis for like last six years...
Eamiela Caldari Terry-Thomas's School for Scoundrels	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:36:00 - [14] Posted to agree - the level of botting going on in eve is a **** take, really wish CCP would do something about it.
Talos Nur	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Joe Phoenix I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay. You do realize that PLEX are paid for by someone, don't you?
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Joe Phoenix I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay. Joe, you're smarter than this. Of course they pay to play. They buy plexes that were bought and sold for profit. Every bot you think you see has had it's subscription price covered by either direct subscription or plex bought by someone else.
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:56:00 - [17] They can get onto the market in a number of different ways, some through legit methods, some are seeded, etc.
Talos Nur	Posted - 2011.02.21 01:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Joe Phoenix They can get onto the market in a number of different ways, some through legit methods, some are seeded, etc. PLEX are not seeded on the market. That would be dumb.
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Xylengra Originally by: Joe Phoenix I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay. Joe, you're smarter than this. Of course they pay to play. They buy plexes that were bought and sold for profit. Every bot you think you see has had it's subscription price covered by either direct subscription or plex bought by someone else. That is actually something of a myth. PLEXS are not all created by CCP. CCP sells the rights to PLEXS to other companies such as shattered crystal. You must also remember that the isk is still transfered for RWC which of course corrupts the balanced market. No surprise that CCP attempted to stop this process because it allows bots to get around paying CCP and undercut them.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Joe Phoenix I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay. Every plex is paid for in cash. CCP makes money off of every active subscription. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:14:00 - [21] In a convoluted way this is true. However the way it is effectively killing the game is completely illogical. And i believe that CCP sometimes seeds plexs in order to remove isk from the market, although i do not know if this is true.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:36:00 - [22] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 21/02/2011 02:45:12 Originally by: Joe Phoenix I find it very odd that CCP doesn't care. CCP doesn't make money from bots since the people who use them don't pay to play. But it does ruin the game for people who ARE willing to pay. Bots make plexes more expensive (more demand) which in turn makes it more attractive for people to sell them on the market. Especially with more microtransactions coming our way it's profitable for CCP to give people more incentive (more ISK for PLEX) to buy PLEX for IRL money, especially when less and less PLEX are going to be used for redeeming gametime. Originally by: Joe Phoenix And i believe that CCP sometimes seeds plexs in order to remove isk from the market, although i do not know if this is true. This is basically giving away gametime, why on earth would CCP do that?
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Xylengra on 21/02/2011 02:45:23 Edited by: Xylengra on 21/02/2011 02:44:51 Originally by: Joe Phoenix And i believe that CCP sometimes seeds plexs in order to remove isk from the market, although i do not know if this is true. Again, Joe, you should be smarter than this. CCP sells GTCs directly and licenses some other retailers to also sell time codes. Any 'discount' that CCP allows those retailers to sell the GTCs for is made up in volume of sales. CCP loses not a cent on these outside sales. GTCs, regardless of where they are bought, can be converted to PLEX, which then becomes an in-game commodity, bought and sold just like everything else. If your suspicion that CCP seeds PLEX into the market is true, they would be not only removing isk from the game but cash from their business, hardly a logical conclusion from your baseless fears. No, in fact, quite the opposite is true. PLEX was introduced in order to combat RMT, and RMT is the one area where CCP is quite proactive - you will actually see REAL permabans for anyone caught up in such transactions (and they are easy enough to track). As to whether or not botting is killing the game or not, I think that is debatable. Yes, botting reaps the botters tons of isk and, perhaps minerals for large-scale construction. However, without all that, the economy in general would be so diminished that large alliances would be much more loathe to commit their titans and SCs to battle and, thus, the game would be diminished in turn. As to whether or not the average "Joe" can compete, the answer is, of course, no. However, it can also be argued that the average "Joe" really isn't playing the same game as those large nullsec alliances. No, ultimately, I reject the whole "botters are ruining my game" meme, in toto. It's a sandbox, remember? We, the player 'base' can take care of almost any of these problems on our own. If one suspects a bot, don't whine to CCP to fix it, take care of it yourself - blow it up and keep blowing it up. All one has to do is demand a ransom before pulling the trigger and one can ignore any possibility of being accused of harassment. If it's a matter of personal honor that one does not bot, then don't bot. If one cannot accept the terms of the game, as it exists, then this probably isn't the game for you. DISCLAIMERS: 1. All of the above references to 'you' are the of the UGU (you, general you) variety and not specifically directed at Joe Phoenix. 2. No one should waste their time accusing me of botting. I don't think I've left the station I settled in more than a few times. If you want to accuse my main of botting, feel free and let everyone know how that works out for UGU.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Xylengra As to whether or not botting is killing the game or not, I think that is debatable. Yes, botting reaps the botters tons of isk and, perhaps minerals for large-scale construction. However, without all that, the economy in general would be so diminished that large alliances would be much more loathe to commit their titans and SCs to battle and, thus, the game would be diminished in turn. As to whether or not the average "Joe" can compete, the answer is, of course, no. However, it can also be argued that the average "Joe" really isn't playing the same game as those large nullsec alliances. Well to me it's simple: botting is cheating and I hate cheaters. It's the same for alliance bots that are "just" used to mine large quantities of ore so they can build and replace huge capital fleets as for sweatshop botters who sell it for RL money. Cheating is cheating.
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.21 02:51:00 - [25] EVE needs a captcha.
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2011.02.21 03:00:00 - [26] Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 21/02/2011 03:00:22 I believe that the PLEXs were seeded to remove isk from the market in order to avoid market flux, however i am not 100% on this so please don't quote me on that. Yes huge amounts of minerals are spent on titan construction, but a lot of these minerals will find their way to jita and amarr and kill the markets for legit trade. Also, consider this. You live in nullsec and you might see a titan fight, "thats cool and all but they are just made by bots so nothing special". Now if bots were removed and you see a fleet of titans you will think " holy crap thats so awesome, TITANS!". Plus you will always know who is the top dog :) I don't know i'm just trying to come at the situation from another angle. Oh btw i'm no average joe
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.02.21 03:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Mighty Dread EVE needs a captcha. Google CAPTCHA readers and see if you still think that would be an effective means to curtail botting. What it WOULD do, of course, is ensure that legitimate miners or ratters would simply quit doing so.
Qolde Minmatar the unified Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.02.21 03:08:00 - [28] It would change the game for the better if CCP would remove mining/ratting/trade bots, macros, and RMT sweatshops. Supercap proliferation would be reversed. T1 industry would be given a breath of life. It would give the average real player much more buying power, hence more fun, therefore strengthening the real economy. Right now, the bots are like walmart, sucking the life out of honest producers, by unfairly lowering the cost of common goods, and devaluing the honest laborer's time, preventing him from ever having the opportunity to get to the top. It's wage slavery, in a video game. The root cause of the problem is that a lot of the isk/good producing gameplay is simple enough to be macroed. I'd be totally cool with captchas if they were properly implemented to interfere as little as possible with gameplay. But, captchas are only a stopgap measure, until mining is as engaging as PVP, and belt rats weren't so simple minded. I know they're working on that last one as evidenced by sleepers and the new sansha's. I understand how a lot of people who are not botters like mining to be an afk activity. This I can understand in hisec. Maybe there should only be trit in highsec. This would actually boost the game in more ways than one. The amount of trit that would be mined would be astronomical, dropping the price pretty low, causing the other minerals to be in such demand, that lowsec residents(mostly pirates) who need new ships might actually invite miners into their corporation. The draw would be too high to ignore. The risk of going to lowsec/null might actually be worth the reward. It would only be worth it for pirates to kill enemy miners. As for ratting bots, obviously make the 0.0 rats smarter, so that ratting requires some kind of attention. It doesn't have to be hard, just require attention. And change their behavior every couple of weeks, so that it breaks the macros as often as possible. Maybe even require captchas for the battleships to actually die.(lol) Trade bots would be simple to fix. Don't know why they haven't put captchas on accounts that are spamming the market server 23/7 for prices. In fact any account that has constant activity for 20 hours a day for a week should be nerfed in some way. In some other MMO i played, they'd nerf spawns if you stayed in the same zone for as little as 1 hour. You'd have to leave and come back. I'm sure some tactic like this can be implemented in eve. But considering how this game is totally different, it may be tough to implement. Have incursions drop on Constellations that have the most NPC kills? Mission runners would probably hate it, but lol, we deserve it for being so close to bots. Botters in 0.0 would have a big huge flag saying "here we are". That would be a nice way to choose where to roam. Name some bad side effects to the stuff I said. I need to hear feedback. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.02.21 03:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Joe Phoenix Oh btw i'm no average joe I don't think anyone would accuse you of being that. Look, I understand that everyone comes at this issue from their own angle, and usually from a perspective that would benefit them specifically. That's human nature (and, let's all remember, there IS a human behind every bot). I also understand and accept the argument that botting is cheating. You'll get no argument from me. That, in and of itself, though, does nothing to address the fact that cheating has become pervasive in our society. We can rail against it all we want, but there will always be someone who will laugh at you while they do, in fact, cheat their way to advantage. Instead of taking some kind of moral high road, the best course of action is to use their cheating against them to gain the advantage for yourself. An example can be found in all those stories of Mackinaws mining away into cans and never reacting when you and your hauler relieve them of the entire can's worth of ice. Unmonitored bot by player X then becomes a donor of ice to your cause. I still stand by my assertion that expecting CCP to take care of this problem for UGU is a bit unrealistic and naive, and really would exemplify the very worst of nanny state thinking. Self-reliance is always the better way - always.
prospector oen	Posted - 2011.02.21 03:17:00 - [30] halve the sec hit for suicide ganking in emprie

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