EVE Search - Something that bugs me about player run market

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Something that bugs me about player run market

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:02:00 - [1] we can build out own stuff an sell it an everything except the meta 1 - 4 stuff... How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff? ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
daddys helper	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:03:00 - [2] research
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:04:00 - [3] You first have to figure out the puzzle that no person has figured out yet. The answer is in front of your face.
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40 Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40 Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Londo Cebb Official Market Discussions Troll	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [6] I may be very wrong about this, but I think when a T2 invention fails it has a chance to make a meta ?-4 version of the item. But yea the vast majority of it comes from drops.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [7] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 23/02/2011 18:07:38 Originally by: Kengutsi Akira the meta 1 - 4 stuff... How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff? I underlined the correct part.. several threads in feature & idea discussion have been gone by about this. Nothing ever came out of it or did stick with CSM/CCP. Originally by: Londo Cebb I may be very wrong about this, but I think when a T2 invention fails it has a chance to make a meta ?-4 version of the item. But yea the vast majority of it comes from drops. Nope. That's as true as the tale of a slight chance to get a T2 BPO when you invent something. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40 Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Aessoroz Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40 Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting. what I meant was its up to the player to set the price... like here... Like most other games that have a AH of any kind for that matter ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Aessoroz Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40 Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting. what I meant was its up to the player to set the price... like here... Like most other games that have a AH of any kind for that matter So? Market fudging is a required part of a player run market, even real life has traders who do such things as buy out commodities and relist for higher prices. In games like WoW, they donts like that.
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:18:00 - [11] Edited by: Cory Sopapilla on 23/02/2011 18:19:00 Comparing the market to WoW is way off. Bind on Pickup items can't be sold, Bind on Equip items can't be sold, you can't buy in one area, haul to any of another of thousands of possible locations and sell said items for a profit, items are indestructible so you can sell someone a set of bags and they never have to buy another again, you choose 2 professions and can only make those items, etc. It's like comparing apples to planets. The drop rates do need to be tweaked further though. Meta 4 afterburners drop like crazy. All of these differences were what drew me to Eve from WoW.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:20:00 - [12] huh w/e id like to be able to produce useful mods as an industrialist but I guess thats too much to ask for in this game ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:22:00 - [13] You still can. Not everything drops. Avoid building stuff where you see meta 2-4 stuff saturing the market to the point of crashed prices and abuse those who are bad at math putting refinable stuff up at half their melt-down value. Even crashed segments of the market are profitable.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Cory Sopapilla You still can. Not everything drops. Avoid building stuff where you see meta 2-4 stuff saturing the market to the point of crashed prices and abuse those who are bad at math putting refinable stuff up at half their melt-down value. Even crashed segments of the market are profitable. IE dont build anything other than ships. everything else I see on the market is destroyed by meta 1 - 4 stuff. Im not trying to come off like Im whining, Im trying to see the point of even having meta 0 BPOs anymore. ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Aqriue	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:27:00 - [15] Player Run market does not mean produce and market. The meta 1-4 items drop, they are put on the market to be bought by players, and thus they are controlled by the player base. Also, the meta 1-4 stuff is equivilent to rusty swords and tattered pelt armor. They help the younger pilots get up and running quickly, rookie ships and civilian stuff suck badly and they are better off feeling the sense of loss sooner by loosing a tier 1 or tier 2 ship then replacable rookie ship. They help to keep the price of T2 down as well, because if a T2 module is too expensive a meta 1-4 is only a few percent worse and alot cheaper (excluding some items like cruiser meta 4 guns, popularity of the cruiser hull, and high demand of medium guns). Meta 1-4 stuff are fine as they drop into EVE as they currently are, it helps to stimulate the economy (ship destruction) by buying the cheap higher stuff instead of fitting a fully T2 module ship (might run you 10-15 million for T2 modules vs maybe 5 million meta 1-4 stuff before factoring in a cruiser you are going to loose anyway).
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:29:00 - [16] so whats the point of even having and allowing meta 0 stuff to BE built? its like someone complained that the industrialists couldnt build mods so they gave them absolutely useless BPOs an went "there. you CAN make em now" ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:32:00 - [17] CCP never said everything is player created, they have just said they are moving in that direction. It has been proposed to change invention mechanics to where a failed invention attempt leads to meta 1-4. IMO, that would be a good thing as long as mission payouts, including LP requirements, are balanced with it.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff? That's like saying: OMG! Asteroids are not made by players!!11 Evemarket is not Player driven!!! Originally by: Kengutsi Akira IE dont build anything other than ships. everything else I see on the market is destroyed by meta 1 - 4 stuff. Im not trying to come off like Im whining, Im trying to see the point of even having meta 0 BPOs anymore. As has been stated before, the drop chances should be further tweaked since some meta 3-4 stuff drops too much, other mods like arbalest launchers are VERY expensive in comparision. If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Im not trying to come off like Im whining Try harder.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Nika Dekaia If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs. so whats the point now? where I am: Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk 1-2 1.1 million 3 4 million 4 14 million whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil? ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Jacqueline Coeur Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:41:00 - [21] The fact that meta 1-4 items are dropped has nothing to do with what kind of market they make. It's the fact that NPCs will neither buy them nor sell them that counts. WoW's AH is a player made market only for those items that NPCs will neither buy nor sell. And IIRC WoW's NPCs will happily buy pretty much anything (for a very low price, but still they'd buy). Some items in EvE are not part of the player run market (even if they are tradable on the EvE market). For example skill books, unresearched T1 BPOs and a few other items are not part of the player run market. The market at large is player run if the vast majority of the trades are for items that are neither bought nor sold by NPCs. True for EvE's market and EvE's contracts. Untrue for WoW's AH.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:44:00 - [22] Hey wait, I think I just came to the reason for them Invention Or w/e its called now. You have to have a T1 item to use for the research for the T2 BPC right? ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil? Because you can make money building them. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Nika Dekaia If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs. so whats the point now? where I am: Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk 1-2 1.1 million 3 4 million 4 14 million whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil? Two of those meta 4 wepons cost more than a fully fitted t2 heavy caracal. That is why I wont buy them.
Kitty McKitty Gallente Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:53:00 - [25] Hey OP, if you can't look up eve wikis or other information then there is a special section for noob questions. ~~~
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Nika Dekaia If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs. so whats the point now? where I am: Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk 1-2 1.1 million 3 4 million 4 14 million whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil? If you could build the meta 1-4s, their prices would quickly plummet.
TR4D3R4LT	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:31:00 - [27] I'm gonna let you in a little secret. It's called mineral price. If item X (from now on just X) takes 80 isk worth of minerals to build but sells for 100 isk you can make quick 20 isk per unit profit there. However dont forget there are build slot costs, hauling, setting market orders up etc is not that cheap either and so forth and so forth. In the end however if after all those your max ME researched BPO production item is selling for less then what is on the market, you are witnessing what is called "minerals I get from source y are free" merchant. Your best response is to buy his underpriced goods, reprocess them and produce with them something that is valuable. If you have item that produces profit when sold but is moving slowly you need to consider if your placement is optimal/your target audience too small. There is reason why Trabant never "catched on" as car to buy in USA while it sold like mad in other side of "block." Mind you eve is game all about time, hence dont cry if your items bring you monthly profit of 40 mil, seek something else and soon you have twenty different products all bringing in 800 mil a month with effort that takes to move mins and put couple week long production queues to build.
Shintai Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:35:00 - [28] http://science.discovery.com/tv/how-its-made/ -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Aessoroz If you could build the meta 1-4s, their prices would quickly plummet. Yeah, into nowhere most of the time since their mineral content is about 20% of T1. Technically, Meta 1-4 is cheaper than T1. Most prices <T2 are based on mineral value, hence why commonly only the Meta 3 or 4 items actually cost more than T1. I also, to my own surprise, saw someone auction a Meta 2 capital turret BPC in jita. It was legit.
Haxfar Portlaind	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Shintai http://science.discovery.com/tv/how-its-made/ Just thought of that too! Anyone up for a eve version of it?
Dramis	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:07:00 - [31] Edited by: Dramis on 23/02/2011 22:08:27 Originally by: Kengutsi Akira we can build out own stuff an sell it an everything except the meta 1 - 4 stuff... How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff? Troll 0/10 [/bite] Have you even played this game yet? Get a clue. [/endbite]
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:31:00 - [32] Edited by: Barakkus on 23/02/2011 22:32:34 Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Hey wait, I think I just came to the reason for them Invention Or w/e its called now. You have to have a T1 item to use for the research for the T2 BPC right? Actually, meta 0 doesn't affect invention, only meta 1+. You need the meta 0 items are for production of the t2 item. (except for ammo, and there's probably some other ammo like things that don't need the t1 version of the item). - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Gimpb The Scope	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:48:00 - [33] You can make meta items as well. The aesthetics of the way it's presented are a bit different and one uses guns instead of manufacturing slots, but it's not really different in the grand scheme of things. That said, I do wish these things could be created with manufacturing slots... perhaps by reverse engineering a multi run BPC from an actual drop or something along those lines.
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:56:00 - [34] So your complaint is that the t1 market is crap.. Perhaps you should look at the t2 market where bpo's and invention rule... In fact, just look at invented only items. It's crap... So you want bpo's for high meta items... Do you know what that'll do to the market.. The price on those items will become... Crap.... ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.02.24 05:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 24/02/2011 05:16:26 Originally by: Dramis Edited by: Dramis on 23/02/2011 22:08:27 Originally by: Kengutsi Akira we can build out own stuff an sell it an everything except the meta 1 - 4 stuff... How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff? Troll 0/10 [/bite] Have you even played this game yet? Get a clue. [/endbite] wow... a troll trolling me while calling me a troll. Originally by: DeODokktor So your complaint is that the t1 market is crap.. Perhaps you should look at the t2 market where bpo's and invention rule... In fact, just look at invented only items. It's crap... So you want bpo's for high meta items... Do you know what that'll do to the market.. The price on those items will become... Crap.... well Im not understanding the point of manufacturing if 99% of the things you have access to are worthless, including T2 stuff, and hell, T3 ships go for half the price of faction ships if not far less lol ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.02.24 06:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira snip Originally by: DeODokktor So your complaint is that the t1 market is crap.. Perhaps you should look at the t2 market where bpo's and invention rule... In fact, just look at invented only items. It's crap... So you want bpo's for high meta items... Do you know what that'll do to the market.. The price on those items will become... Crap.... well Im not understanding the point of manufacturing if 99% of the things you have access to are worthless, including T2 stuff, and hell, T3 ships go for half the price of faction ships if not far less lol People make those things and sell those things, but sometimes get the "raw material cost + time invested should be greater than the price the product is sold for"-part wrong. The reason? Several.. - because they do it for fun instead of profit - because they can - because they don't really bother - because their raw material was really cheaper than yours and they can't be arsed to price them at the same value as you do - because they don't know better - because they want to get out of the market - because they want to read whine threads on forums or ig-mails - because the time they invest is not much worth to them (intentionally or not) - .. So the guy you quoted is right. We manage to bring anything down to raw material costs + 5to15% in the long rung in Eve. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.24 07:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Cory Sopapilla You still can. Not everything drops. Avoid building stuff where you see meta 2-4 stuff saturing the market to the point of crashed prices and abuse those who are bad at math putting refinable stuff up at half their melt-down value. Even crashed segments of the market are profitable. IE dont build anything other than ships. everything else I see on the market is destroyed by meta 1 - 4 stuff. Im not trying to come off like Im whining, Im trying to see the point of even having meta 0 BPOs anymore. Can you point me to the mission that drop probe launchers (the tutorial mission where you get 1 from the agent don't count, it is not a drop)? The mission that drop prototype cloaking devices? And so on for plenty of stuff.
Eastman Color	Posted - 2011.02.24 10:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira 99% of the things you have access to are worthless You've been snorting brick dust right? Firstly Your gripe appears to be about manufacturing not about the market, there's a large difference. Secondly WoW has one AH (or 3, don't care, what ever) Eve effectively has an auction house in every start across the server. On top of that, Eve has the contract system. WoW has thousands of servers with like 1000 players per server. Eve has 1 server with thousands and thousandes of people in it. Thirdly Don't sell in ball sucking jita, maybe go to a 0.0 border system... maybe one that's near a load of guys that are fighting tooth and nail? You know, go where the demand is? That's what makes eve a player run market, Supply and demand, based on location, based on what's happening near those locations, that's not ****ed about with by the company that runs it to "make it fair". Jita is convienient and you can buy stuff cheap there, doesn't mean you'll get the best price there. gah... you're not gonna get it you seem to thing that all t1 stuff is useless.... clearly it is
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.02.24 11:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Nika Dekaia If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs. so whats the point now? where I am: Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk 1-2 1.1 million 3 4 million 4 14 million whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil? because not everyone will fit them due fitting restrictions so they sell. pvp is a major driver in the module market, probably the biggest by a wide margin. I can pretty much use every subcap combat related item in eve and have all 5 in support skills but often use low meta items for pvp due to fitting restrictions and in favour of better t2 items to compliment the ship bonuses I.e on a rapier you put on the best webs and target painters, tank and often a cloak and then fit around those items the role requires. that might be low meta level guns or propulsion. a common compromise on many pvp ships is t1 webs, disruptors and scramblers, afterburners, mwd's so higher t2 damage weapons or tank can be fitted. also t1 armor in some cases is better than or the same as t2 but with lower fitting requirements. and there is no way I'd ever put arbalests for instance on a pvp Drake, it would double the price of a ship which I'll lose at some point for a marginal damage increase.

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.