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chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
45
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Posted - 2012.09.09 15:14:00 -
[181] - Quote
The role hybridization has always been lesser versions of their recon counterparts. To many people the ability to do multiple functions is the only thing that makes them appealing. Because let's be honest, if you need to spend double to triple the amount of a command ship or recon for only a marginly better amount of tank and less dps with an SP loss. You would not see many running around.
The ability to perform multiple roles validates their cost as a whole.
The only point I disagree with you on is that of the solo replacement of the falcon by the ecm tengu.
As for the black ops gangs going haywire, I am of the opinion that this may not be such a bad thing. Given the insane amount of fuel needed to move these types of ships, that and they are super expensive pinatas. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2093
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:28:00 -
[182] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote: Just from seeing this I can clearly see that you have no idea what you're talking about. Such a laughably terrible fit. There are reasons why Shield Proteuses do not exist.
You can fit the same mods on the astarte and get better damage and tank, at a cheaper price as well.
I was asking for a practical fit, not some ridiculous EFT warrior fit that will obviously die in a fire. Your argument that proteus can match or exceed the astarte dps is invalid.
Heck a shield gank Talo would be superior and cheaper.
Go back and play EFT warrior
Again, the problem here is that you're completely wrong. The Astarte does not get significantly better DPS in any realistic fits. You say that the shield Proteus is not viable because of the cost, but the same is true of the Astarte. Nobody would fly either ship because the Myrmidon does it better. Furthermore, it's so hard to know when you're asking for practical fits vs EFT warrior fits considering that nothing you've said has had any grounding in the reality of PVP.
If your goal is PVP fits, I think we don't have to look any further than your corp's own killboard to see why the Proteus is preferred over the Astarte. This is what I'd say about the Proteus vs Astarte: - There is not a significant DPS difference between the two - The Proteus tanks arbitrarily better - The Proteus is faster - The Proteus has a smaller sig radius (about half size) - The Proteus has a scram range bonus
Furthermore, to call me an EFT warrior is amusing. I've got 86 kills in solo/micro/small gang combat so far this month and it's only the 9th. You've got 168 lifetime kills. And hell, even if you're posting on an alt: I've got more kills this month than anyone in your corp - even if we include the POS mods and neglect the blobs you guys fly in.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2093
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:30:00 -
[183] - Quote
Roime wrote:Ok I derped the speed numbers, true :D
You derped on a lot more than the speed numbers.
Quote:Are they overpowered in null (a serious question)?
Considering that there are massive blobs of T3s floating around in null sec? Almost certainly.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2093
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:40:00 -
[184] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:Liang argues that the Proteus is op claiming that it outdpses the CS counterparts. I counter saying that a proteus can't outdps a astarte without using more mods.
Liang counters using a fail fit, that when pointed out how fail it was, he tries to cover up the fact by saying that I was demanding as "fail EFT warrior fit", when I have never claimed so.
Conclusion: Liang is trolling or being dumb.
All this crying about T3 is what I see as "No fair my 100 million ship can't easily solo a 500+ million ship! I demand a nerf!"
Actually, this is you being a ******* ******. That's not at all what I said. What I said was that the Proteus (and T3s in general) occupy some weird area where they have minor recon abilities combined with near command ship level DPS and HAC level mobility and sig.
As to putting an EFT warrior fit out there: Yeah I absolutely did. You've already limited the scope of what I could put on the ship and I felt I was pushing my luck by putting a 5M ISK T2 rig on it. But really, the biggest reason was because I knew that someone (you) was going to counter with an EFT warrior Astarte fit.
This is the fit I had in mind when I made the statement in question: [Proteus, Gank] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Hammerhead II x5
I have no doubt that you're going to complain about that TS scram, but the truth of that matter is that the Proteus gets a scram range bonus and therefore it's worth fitting a faction scram to it. Just like I fit faction scrams to my Arazus and even sometimes interceptors.
Quote:If I were to apply this argument, T2 HAC's shouldn't "obsolete" T1 counterparts, but they do.
Actually, that's exactly what CCP is saying.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2093
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:45:00 -
[185] - Quote
Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins Eos vs. anything = Eos loses
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA, no. The Proteus will **** that Ishtar and it'll do the same to the Astarte. Hell, the Proteus can straight up tank the Astarte while murdering it with Astarte level DPS.
Quote: Price tag rivalling capitals, and losing SP seem to work on Tranquility as real limitations. T3 is not the best tool for every situation, and losing a T3 is in fact a big deal to most.
So that's why there's fleet battles with hundreds of Tengus and Lokis involved. It makes so much sense now: nobody would ever fly one of those in a massive blob because they might have to retrain 12 hours worth of skills. :( :( :(
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:47:00 -
[186] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
Considering that there are massive blobs of T3s floating around in null sec? Almost certainly.
-Liang
Sh.t your right, people use them in blobs, they must be OP. We need to nerf them so people won't blob with them anymore!! Nerf all the tornadoes...and drakes... and tengus... and abaddons... and zealots..... and hurricanes. (They are used in blobs therefore they must be OP. )
Edit: And archons, way to many of them out there nowadays. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 16:20:00 -
[187] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Hell, the Proteus can straight up tank the Astarte while murdering it with Astarte level DPS.
-Liang
To be fair both ships can easily tank each other due to innate therm/kin resistances. That being said... The proteus completely out tanks the astarte. It has better therm/kin resistances (hac level t2 resistances are better than command level t2 resistances), a smaller sig, faster speed and a 10% rep per level bonus instead of the astarte's 7.5%. Looking at these limited comparisons you can easily deduce (if you're not ********) that the proteus is far better at face tanking than the larger, slower, heavier, more skill intensive, and less versatile astarte.
When you start factoring in survivability options provided beyond the realm of strait eft gank/tank numbers you will see that the proteus starts to pull ahead even further. It's faster, smaller, and has a scram range bonus which can be used both defensively as well as offensively. All together, the proteus is just plain better than the astarte outside of a max gank situation where the astarte's 1 extra gun makes it a bit superior. However the significant survivability advantage coupled with faster speed means that the proteus is probably going to be applying more damage than the astarte anyway.
Simple truth of this, t3s are broken as hell. Those unwilling to objectively look at this are simply blinding them selves with personal bias or self generated misinformation.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 16:27:00 -
[188] - Quote
Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing.
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Lili Lu
401
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 16:44:00 -
[189] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:The role hybridization has always been lesser versions of their recon counterparts. To many people the ability to do multiple functions is the only thing that makes them appealing. Because let's be honest, if you need to spend double to triple the amount of a command ship or recon for only a marginly better amount of tank and less dps with an SP loss. You would not see many running around.
The ability to perform multiple roles validates their cost as a whole.
The only point I disagree with you on is that of the solo replacement of the falcon by the ecm tengu.
As for the black ops gangs going haywire, I am of the opinion that this may not be such a bad thing. Given the insane amount of fuel needed to move these types of ships, that and they are super expensive pinatas. Yes, maybe I did not state it very clearly. There is nothing wrong with hybridization and tech IIIs. It is in fact what they should be able to do. The problem comes when the main role can be done as well or better by the tech III and then it gets to throw the hybrid power on top of it. Then ther becomes little reason other than cost to fly the tech II |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
280
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 17:46:00 -
[190] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:...Simple truth of this, t3s are broken as hell. Those unwilling to objectively look at this are simply blinding them selves with personal bias or self generated misinformation. Not T3's on the whole, but specific sub-systems and combinations thereof are broken as hell. Doubt you'll find many people who'd consider the logistics sub OP for instance, as God rep with <10km range is about as useful as a car without spark plugs
Personally happy, and looking forward to, the sub-systems being looked at one at a time as hinted at by the powers that be. Going to be a while though, so all this whining/whinging is rather premature if you ask me.
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
192
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 17:55:00 -
[191] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins Eos vs. anything = Eos loses
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA, no. The Proteus will **** that Ishtar and it'll do the same to the Astarte. Hell, the Proteus can straight up tank the Astarte while murdering it with Astarte level DPS.
You should reread that post of his and the post he was referring to. It was not about Proteus fighting Ishtar, Astarte or lol-Eos.
And yes - Ishtar is considerably better in its role than a Drone Proteus. And yes - Astarte is also better ( albeit not that much ) as a pure combat blaster ship compared to Proteus when you take ALL factors into consideration. Those factors include price tag and SP loss risk.
Also - I believe that retraining level5 of rank1 skill takes a little bit more than 12hours. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1159
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 18:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins Eos vs. anything = Eos loses
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA, no. The Proteus will **** that Ishtar and it'll do the same to the Astarte. Hell, the Proteus can straight up tank the Astarte while murdering it with Astarte level DPS.
Liang, you are simplifying the comparison to naive 1vs1 rock/paper/scissors level, without considering the ships as a whole, and their special strengths. Ishtar is by far the best sentry boat in game, something the Proteus can't really do. Same goes with Astarte, it's a better field command ship than Proteus. Arazu is a better & faster long range tackler than Proteus. Oneiros is vastly superior as a logi. But Proteus is a massively better Deimos (besides being slower), so Deimos needs fixing. Isn't this really simple?
Surely Proteus is the gankiest, tankiest and even cloakiest cruiser, and will murder many/most/all other ships in a point blank brawl. Is a point blank 1vs1 brawl the intended role of Ishtar? Or Astarte? Arazu? Are you saying that Proteus shouldn't have a niche like that?
Why would anyone fly a T3, if they were mediocre at everything?
Quote: So that's why there's fleet battles with hundreds of Tengus and Lokis involved. It makes so much sense now: nobody would ever fly one of those in a massive blob because they might have to retrain 12 hours worth of skills. :( :( :(
A subsys level V takes over 3 days. You probably aren't seriously suggesting that people feel the same about losing billion isk T3s and Drakes, so I I'm not going to pick it out.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1159
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 18:07:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing.
Please stop being thick.
Everybody knows what a 150K EHP cruiser doing 1000dps means in a brawl, and it would be cool if everybody acknowledged how pointless imaginary 1vs1 duels are in ship balance discussions.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 18:15:00 -
[194] - Quote
Roime wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing. Please stop being thick. Everybody knows what a 150K EHP cruiser doing 1000dps means in a brawl, and it would be cool if everybody acknowledged how pointless imaginary 1vs1 duels are in ship balance discussions.
This battleship tank is one of the main issues that make it OP its supposed to be on the level of t1/Navy in all aspects even t2's and most battleships struggle to get that amount of EHP especially when you combine the small sig/speed it can kill a battleship with ease besides some active tanked battleships. |
serras bang
Lucien Coven
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 18:33:00 -
[195] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Roime wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing. Please stop being thick. Everybody knows what a 150K EHP cruiser doing 1000dps means in a brawl, and it would be cool if everybody acknowledged how pointless imaginary 1vs1 duels are in ship balance discussions. This battleship tank is one of the main issues that make it OP its supposed to be on the level of t1/Navy in all aspects even t2's and most battleships struggle to get that amount of EHP especially when you combine the small sig/speed it can kill a battleship with ease besides some active tanked battleships.
again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 18:42:00 -
[196] - Quote
serras bang wrote:Harvey James wrote:Roime wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing. Please stop being thick. Everybody knows what a 150K EHP cruiser doing 1000dps means in a brawl, and it would be cool if everybody acknowledged how pointless imaginary 1vs1 duels are in ship balance discussions. This battleship tank is one of the main issues that make it OP its supposed to be on the level of t1/Navy in all aspects even t2's and most battleships struggle to get that amount of EHP especially when you combine the small sig/speed it can kill a battleship with ease besides some active tanked battleships. again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu. simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's
Marauders come to mind the only ship that was designed for PVE really
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Nihil Nobilitae
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.09 18:52:00 -
[197] - Quote
Is it just me or does most of these anti T3 posts really not complain about anything except the 100k+ EHP combined with cruiser size sig radius?
As for PVE, I think T3's are pretty much right on the spot for what the game needs. Fast and flexible ships perfect for soloing, but overpowered when combined with Logis and massive EHP. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
12
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Posted - 2012.09.09 18:58:00 -
[198] - Quote
Nihil Nobilitae wrote:Is it just me or does most of these anti T3 posts really not complain about anything except the 100k+ EHP combined with cruiser size sig radius?
As for PVE, I think T3's are pretty much right on the spot for what the game needs. Fast and flexible ships perfect for soloing, but overpowered when combined with Logis and massive EHP.
come now even a drake can solo lv'4s and field command ships can do them **** easy faction bs/marauder the list goes on for pve content |
Lili Lu
404
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's Ok, look, you had an earlier post also complaining that Caldari had no other viable level 4 ship if the tengu gets nerfed. You are wrong.
You apparently haven't been around long enough to know that Raven-kind for years ruled level 4s. Now there even other options besides those and the tengu. You have Navy Scorps, Rattlesnakes, the Nighthawk, Golem, and even the Rokh with the new hybrids would find some missions to it's liking (Gone Berserk for example). This game is not balanced around level 4s, never has been, never will, but even if it were your argument lacks merit. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
49
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:32:00 -
[200] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's Ok, look, you had an earlier post also complaining that Caldari had no other viable level 4 ship if the tengu gets nerfed. You are wrong. You apparently haven't been around long enough to know that Raven-kind for years ruled level 4s. Now there even other options besides those and the tengu. You have Navy Scorps, Rattlesnakes, the Nighthawk, Golem, and even the Rokh with the new hybrids would find some missions to it's liking (Gone Berserk for example). This game is not balanced around level 4s, never has been, never will, but even if it were your argument lacks merit.
Had to jump in and quote this one for truth. Caldari pretty much are and always have been the PVE kings. |
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
52
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Posted - 2012.09.09 20:39:00 -
[201] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Lili Lu wrote:serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's Ok, look, you had an earlier post also complaining that Caldari had no other viable level 4 ship if the tengu gets nerfed. You are wrong. You apparently haven't been around long enough to know that Raven-kind for years ruled level 4s. Now there even other options besides those and the tengu. You have Navy Scorps, Rattlesnakes, the Nighthawk, Golem, and even the Rokh with the new hybrids would find some missions to it's liking (Gone Berserk for example). This game is not balanced around level 4s, never has been, never will, but even if it were your argument lacks merit. Had to jump in and quote this one for truth. Caldari pretty much are and always have been the PVE kings.
I'm just glad to see the Rokh actually getting mentioned; I'm tired of the players that insist Caldari are only about the missiles. It'd be nice if the Tengu rail fit was even remotely as viable for PvE as the HML fit is. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2094
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:49:00 -
[202] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Also - I believe that retraining level5 of rank1 skill takes a little bit more than 12hours.
Given the rate with which people are losing them, I doubt most people train the skill back up to 5. Either way it's at most a 4 day train. Big ******* whoop.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2094
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:52:00 -
[203] - Quote
Roime wrote:Same goes with Astarte, it's a better field command ship than Proteus.
No, it really isn't.
Quote: Surely Proteus is the gankiest, tankiest and even cloakiest cruiser, and will murder many/most/all other ships in a point blank brawl. Is a point blank 1vs1 brawl the intended role of Ishtar? Or Astarte? Arazu? Are you saying that Proteus shouldn't have a niche like that?
I'm saying that giving a ship the tank and DPS of a command ship with the mobility of a HAC and some recon thrown in for good measure is overpowered.
Quote:Why would anyone fly a T3, if they were mediocre at everything?
You're acting like they can only fit one subsystem at a time, or only fulfill one role at a time. That's just false.
Quote: A subsys level V takes over 3 days. You probably aren't seriously suggesting that people feel the same about losing billion isk T3s and Drakes, so I I'm not going to pick it out.
That assumes most of those jokers require the skills to 5 before flying the ship in a blob. Money says they don't.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2094
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:54:00 -
[204] - Quote
Roime wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Roime wrote: Proteus vs. Ishtar = Ishtar wins Proteus vs. Astarte = Astarte wins
Please stop intentionally misinforming the public, it's simply not amusing. Please stop being thick. Everybody knows what a 150K EHP cruiser doing 1000dps means in a brawl, and it would be cool if everybody acknowledged how pointless imaginary 1vs1 duels are in ship balance discussions.
I'm glad to hear that 150k EHP cruiser tanks with 1000 DPS are only useful in 1v1s. Nobody would ever utilize the superior sig radius, DPS, tank, and "minor" recon abilities to make the ships better than a field command could ever be.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2094
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:55:00 -
[205] - Quote
serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's
The Tengu would need nerfed for its PVE abilities, even if it weren't mindbogglingly amazing at PVP as well.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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serras bang
Lucien Coven
23
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Posted - 2012.09.09 21:40:00 -
[206] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's
The Tengu would need nerfed for its PVE abilities, even if it weren't mindbogglingly amazing at PVP as well. -Liang
the tengu pve fit is actualy extreamly tight my current top dps hml tengu at only 760 dps might i point out pales in comparison to other even the just over 960 dps of hams still pales in comparison. but to get these figures you not only have to spend in the region of 1.8 bill on the ship then a further 1 - 1.3 bill on implants and another 1bill or so if you want crystal implants its still capable of actualy dieing if you bugger up a couple of triggers.
i mean really considering you can spend 3 billion pluss on the ship,fit and implants to get out of the tengu what mission runners do witch aint a lot lets face it you would expect the kind of performance a tengu gives you and atm caldari dose not have anything that come close to the tengu not even the cnr.
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
81
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Posted - 2012.09.10 00:12:00 -
[207] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:Nestara Aldent wrote:No it have more repping power than 4 large 'solace' because proteus RR subsystem gives 50% bonus to RR efficiency. With all 5's each repper wil repair 354 hp. On its own without the bonus's it will repair 286. With all 5's on an oneiros each repper will repair 384. So no, it has less repping power.
Corelum A-type reps 417 hp on a Proteus here in my EFT if I fit it on a Proteus, then click on module in EFT fitting. They have been buffed recently, do you have latest EFT version? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2094
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Posted - 2012.09.10 00:40:00 -
[208] - Quote
serras bang wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's
The Tengu would need nerfed for its PVE abilities, even if it weren't mindbogglingly amazing at PVP as well. -Liang the tengu pve fit is actualy extreamly tight my current top dps hml tengu at only 760 dps might i point out pales in comparison to other even the just over 960 dps of hams still pales in comparison. but to get these figures you not only have to spend in the region of 1.8 bill on the ship then a further 1 - 1.3 bill on implants and another 1bill or so if you want crystal implants its still capable of actualy dieing if you bugger up a couple of triggers. i mean really considering you can spend 3 billion pluss on the ship,fit and implants to get out of the tengu what mission runners do witch aint a lot lets face it you would expect the kind of performance a tengu gives you and atm caldari dose not have anything that come close to the tengu not even the cnr.
Don't bullshit me m8. You do not need to use a crystal set or use a deadspace booster to tank even the most heinous of level 4s.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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serras bang
Lucien Coven
23
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Posted - 2012.09.10 00:50:00 -
[209] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:serras bang wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:serras bang wrote: again this just gose to show that the problems with t3 are infact all to do with pvp so why should pve fits get nerfed due to pvp again i yet see anyone here complaining about the 14k alpha of a tornado or anything else eccept those that are defending the tengu.
simple thing is it dosent matter the hull if i spend in the region of 2 billion isk on a mission fit ship i expect it to not only do lvl 4's fairly easily but to do in an acceptable time or i may as well just go and blitz lvl 3's
The Tengu would need nerfed for its PVE abilities, even if it weren't mindbogglingly amazing at PVP as well. -Liang the tengu pve fit is actualy extreamly tight my current top dps hml tengu at only 760 dps might i point out pales in comparison to other even the just over 960 dps of hams still pales in comparison. but to get these figures you not only have to spend in the region of 1.8 bill on the ship then a further 1 - 1.3 bill on implants and another 1bill or so if you want crystal implants its still capable of actualy dieing if you bugger up a couple of triggers. i mean really considering you can spend 3 billion pluss on the ship,fit and implants to get out of the tengu what mission runners do witch aint a lot lets face it you would expect the kind of performance a tengu gives you and atm caldari dose not have anything that come close to the tengu not even the cnr. Don't bullshit me m8. You do not need to use a crystal set or use a deadspace booster to tank even the most heinous of level 4s. -Liang
erm yeah you do especialy if you want the kinda performance outta it you get i dont use crystal admitantly but i never said you needed em just that some do use em.
infact if i didnt use pith sb/ faction moduals i would not be able to fit my tengu the way it is one reason is due to cap the other is due to cpu. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2095
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 00:56:00 -
[210] - Quote
The only reason to fit your Tengu with 3B worth of **** is for your own personal sense of bling. There's nothing stopping you from getting the requisite 5 damage mods (BLA II, 4 CN BCU). The kind of fit you're talking about is what I'd expect to see soloing C3s, C4s, or L5s. Not tanking the pitiful DPS that a L4 can put out.
Furthermore, just because you spent billions on your ship doesn't mean it should be immune to the nerf bat. Just because you think that there's nothing out there in Caldari-land to replace it doesn't mean that it should be immune to the nerf bat.
The ship is getting nerfed.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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