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Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 13:48:00 - [241] Centrii Sixx I'm sympathetic to some of your views. I do agree that there should be some context for the fighting. Right now in low sec I do fight just for fightings sake and it is very little different than if they just had an arena. On the other hand this is just a game so we can't expect hugely meaningful combat. I do agree that the null sec wars are for the most part meaningless and uninteresting to me. There is an exception to this though. What the providence bloc did is to my mind the pinnacle of what can happen in a mmo. Instead of just playing the game optimally they set out their own unique goals and made it happen û for a really long time. But as for the rest I think they were just more of the same with a different name. But really due to real life, null sec isnÆt going to be a fit for me. So the only option I have is meaningless pvp. I really think fw can fill this gap. Unlike the latest null sec alliance the factions are going to stay. so when you join a fw you will be joining something that will be with eve ôforever.ö But yeah unfortunately the occupancy plexing û which is the core of the combat - is really based on pve and needs to be updated and improved. I did give an idea of how this combat could be more meaningful. When systems are taken over time there is an increased chance that the different npc stations will switch to other corps in the occupying faction. This could become news items and be a way that FW players are having an effect on the new eden universe. Adding to the role play in a way that actually divides the community might help too. I think this is more difficult and complicated. -Cearain ôàit took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), à.111 faction warfare complexes were captured à I did not kill anyone in the process..ö Ankhesentap
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.25 13:56:00 - [242] You decide what is important - not ccp. You could fight for control to access for L5 agents in low sec areas. You could fight for moons, POSes, etc....
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.25 14:12:00 - [243] Edited by: VaMei on 25/03/2011 14:19:33 Originally by: Centri Sixx Originally by: Mister Smithington Your outlook on pvp will change the very moment you get your first kill. I don't really bother shooting at people now. I've done PvP before, had a few kills, but it's pointless. So what if they lose a ship? 15-30 minutes they can have it back, if they dont have three or more in the hangar already. Losing yours only hurts if you are dumb enough to risk what you can't afford. I really have to agree with Centri here. I remember my 1st PvP kill; it was my Celestis comming out on top over a Caracal. I damped him and kited while the drones did their thing. If he'd have had more skill in LRTargeting or Navigation, or had fit a SeBo or MWD, he'd have won or escaped. He didn't, so I won. It wasn't very satisfying knowing that the win had nothing to do with my skillz over his, he simply couldn't win. My 2nd win was a 5 destroyer wolfpack vs a PvE Battleship. We lost one destroyer and killed the BS so it was a nice victory in our war of attrition, but the fight was so one sided that there was no satisfaction in the kill. That's how most of the fights I've been in have gone, the outcome of the fight is decided by composition, fitting, or shear numbers before the 1st shot is actually fired. Now don't get me wrong, there have been some good fights where an FC's skill at recognising the situation, and team reacting as one correctly using the tools available has turned what should have been a suicide attack into victory, but those have been the exception rather than the rule. Since that 2nd kill I'll fight for space or for resources, but I don't PvP for PvP's sake in Eve any more. As for causing someone some financial pain by killing them, that may have been the case years ago when an unfit Domi was 80m isk, and farming was done by humans at about 20misk/hr. Now were in an era of disposable cap ships, where a dozen Titans can be lost in a single fight and SuperCarriers aren't even counted. Fighting in T1 FFs, CAs, & BCs might as well be considered as arena mode since the time lost to re-ship and find a new fight is as valuable as the isk required to do it.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:11:00 - [244] Edited by: Cearain on 25/03/2011 15:12:02 Originally by: X Gallentius You decide what is important - not ccp. You could fight for control to access for L5 agents in low sec areas. You could fight for moons, POSes, etc.... To some extent the players decide but that should go further. CCP has locked in too many things that players canÆt effect. What you describe fighting over moons, or a pos is really just fighting over your own personal possessions or income sources. Whether youÆre fighting over a ship or a pos its pretty much the same. In neither case are you really effecting the new eden universe as a whole very much. Yes if you lock down that level 5 agent you will be the one supplying the federation warp scramblers instead of someone else, but I really see that as more of a personal impact than anything that effects new eden as a whole. Lets say I decide I want the Amarr faction grow and prosper. Naturally I would join faction war. Lets say we take over all of the Minmatar space result: nothing. You would think that if we took over all of the disputed minmatar space, then the corporations aligned with amarr would prosper. You would think that they would be given certain benefits in this militarily occupied territory as opposed to the corps loyal to and supplying the enemy with weapons to shoot us. But CCP decided that we can't effect that. Our overall war in fw is indeed pointless other than the gain or loss of our personal possessions. But consider this: What if when amarr started taking over systems in low sec those corps in those systems (and therefore those agents) started switching to amarr. So a Core Complexion station might be ôsoldö to a carthum conglomerate or even Lai Dai, if that area remains occupied by amarr. Well all of a sudden those local corps running the level 5s might start to realize they would either have to grind up that new corp standing or they need to start contributing to the war effort for minmatar. They can do this either by joining fw directly or just by sort of aligning with the faction they want to keep control. In other words players actions effect the universe. ItÆs not set in stone by ccp. The war would have some impact on the people who are aligned/loyalists with one or the other faction. Again the impact wouldnÆt be huge and indeed it wouldnÆt even necessarily directly effect those fighting in the war. If many of your stations disappear to the enemy you will likely get more isk/lp in the ones that exist. But itÆs something. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:37:00 - [245] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 24/03/2011 03:10:49 Originally by: Cearain Liang can disagree with me and suggest I am not an intelligent pvper, I donÆt mind. Meh, my biggest beef with what you said was the assertion that people with good ISK ratios only blob and do "uber safe" gate camping. Some intelligence applied to your PVP can go a long ways. Notably, I tend to have a good ISK ratio and our gangs are really tiny next to yours even though we are in the same areas. Liang I mostly fly solo in t1 cruisers and down. So I donÆt know how your gangs could possibly be really tiny next to mine. Are you flying shuttles? Mister Smithington I did not say blobbing = gate camps. But both are relatively safe forms of pvp that will boost your isk ratio. Neither are very attractive to me personally. I don't mind gate camping much more than blobbing, itÆs just not my thing. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:43:00 - [246] Originally by: Monger Man Edited by: Monger Man on 16/03/2011 20:19:28 ....Again. What is the vision we have. I think this is the most important thing. What will lowsec be instead of what it is..... I will again echo this request. What do we want to happen when we log on to eve in low sec, that does not happen now? What is the vision of how it should be. Mynxee explained that this is what they want from players. If we donÆt really have any vision for how it can be better other than minor tweaks then I donÆt think ccp is going to care much. I am in low sec because I joined the war between major factions. I think I gave a pretty clear vision of what I would like to happen when I logged in. I want to be in quality pvp battles nearly constantly. I even explained in some detail how ccp could achieve that vision. Based on mynxees comments I donÆt think ccp is really going to be motivated to work on low sec if we just give them a big list of minor gripes. I think they are asking us for what we want to do in a gaming session and then they can figure out if it can be done. What is the vision of how your game play should be in low sec? And also will that vision of the game play add anything new to eve? Saying ôadd concord to low sec so it is just like high secö really doesnÆt create anything new for eve. Only after those questions are answered should start talking about mechanics to get it done. If you donÆt have a vision of what you want to happen changing a few mechanics around is unlikely to accomplish anything meaningful. ItÆs putting the cart before the horse. Moreover if we as players donÆt share the same vision then itÆs unlikely we will agree on how the mechanics should change. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:46:00 - [247] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 15:46:04 Originally by: Cearain Liang I mostly fly solo in t1 cruisers and down. So I donÆt know how your gangs could possibly be really tiny next to mine. Are you flying shuttles? Every time I've ever seen you in space, you were in a 10-15 man gang with battleships. Also, I ninja'd on some kills with you on an alt. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Mimiru Minahiro	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:58:00 - [248] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 15:46:04 Originally by: Cearain Liang I mostly fly solo in t1 cruisers and down. So I donÆt know how your gangs could possibly be really tiny next to mine. Are you flying shuttles? Every time I've ever seen you in space, you were in a 10-15 man gang with battleships. Also, I ninja'd on some kills with you on an alt. -Liang LOL OWNED
equincu ocha Sinners.	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:59:00 - [249] Originally by: VaMei Edited by: VaMei on 25/03/2011 14:20:17 Originally by: Centri Sixx Originally by: Mister Smithington Your outlook on pvp will change the very moment you get your first kill. I don't really bother shooting at people now. I've done PvP before, had a few kills, but it's pointless. So what if they lose a ship? 15-30 minutes they can have it back, if they dont have three or more in the hangar already. Losing yours only hurts if you are dumb enough to risk what you can't afford. As for causing someone some financial pain by killing them, that may have been the case years ago when an unfit Domi was 80m isk, and farming was done by humans at about 20misk/hr. Now were in an era of disposable cap ships, where a dozen Titans can be lost in a single fight and SuperCarriers aren't even counted. Fighting in T1 FFs, CAs, & BCs might as well be considered as arena mode since the time lost to re-ship and find a new fight is as valuable as the isk required to do it. Being able to afford what you lose doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt to lose ships. Some of us don't use bots to make our is, so it's still a hit to the wallet when ever we lose ships, not to mention the time and logistics of getting ships in from the high-sec hubs. Just because pvp may be meaningless to you doesn't mean it is for the rest of us
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 17:20:00 - [250] Originally by: Mimiru Minahiro Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 15:46:04 Originally by: Cearain Liang I mostly fly solo in t1 cruisers and down. So I donÆt know how your gangs could possibly be really tiny next to mine. Are you flying shuttles? Every time I've ever seen you in space, you were in a 10-15 man gang with battleships. Also, I ninja'd on some kills with you on an alt. -Liang LOL OWNED Here is my api verified killboard: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Cearain IÆm not saying I never fly in gangs, and when I do, I rack up kills very fast. I mean I can go out with a 10-20 man group and in an hour and a half I will get 5 - 15 killmails, whereas if I am solo I am lucky if I get one or 2 kills in that time. So as you can see, the vast majority of my pvp time is solo. I think I may have joined a gang about five times since leaving rvb a year and 4 months ago. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.25 18:40:00 - [251] I haven't facepalmed so hard in a long time. Some of you really do not understand the idea of the sandbox. We make our own goals. We make our own fun. We are the Alliance. We are the Horde. This system is my turf because I kill everyone who comes into it. That system is yours for the same reason. Don't ask CCP to hold your hand. Originally by: Centri Sixx I've done PvP before, had a few kills, but it's pointless. . . It's just warfare for the sake of warfare, and that gets old. To you. There's a whole population of low sec pvpers who would disagree with you. Originally by: Centri Sixx To make it more fun there needs to be more: things like realm pride, PvP currencies, and non-combat realm PvP help. Wtf? Assuming realm here means region and not server, I'd say the null sec alliances have realm pride. There are even low sec groups who have established de facto sovereignty. They're probably pretty proud of that. Non-Combat PvP help is called industry. Assuming by PvP currencies you mean something like arena tokens. . . I . . . I just. . . that's so against the Eve philosophy. I'm honestly flustered here. I'll just leave it at this. The lack of these things is what keeps Eve from being Azeroth in space. There are plenty of games that have systems like this and do it relatively well. We love Eve because it DOESN'T have these systems. Originally by: Centri Sixx Most of my deaths are just pointless: some ship wanted to gank, I didn't get out in time like I usually do. Fight or flee nothing really matters: I earned my money back easily and went to work. Your time isn't free. Your money isn't limitless. Every vexor you lose means 1 more is removed from the total pool. If you want to try again, you need to buy another. If you give up and don't replace it, there's still one less than there was before. Every vexor popped effects the market, just like every vexor produced affects the market. Originally by: Centri Sixx I think if they add context and meaning to PvP, they would get more carebears into it. Right now there really is none: you earn ISK to lose it fighting. Adrenaline fades, and there are better PvP mechanics out there: heck, even Champions Online has more creative mechanics and better team play. No matter what game, carebears don't pvp because they don't like it. That's what makes them carebears. Let the carebears stay in empire (or deep null). They have a purpose there. Originally by: Centri Sixx What's missing is what EVE should give: PvP with real meaning across the galaxy, where it's not just cyclical ganks. Even 0.0 doesnt matter: who cares about CVA losing provi now? I don't pay attention to null sec politics, but I'm sure the null sec alliances do. Just because you can't come up with a goal and content for yourself doesn't mean others cant. Originally by: VaMei As for causing someone some financial pain by killing them, that may have been the case years ago when an unfit Domi was 80m isk, and farming was done by humans at about 20misk/hr. Now were in an era of disposable cap ships, where a dozen Titans can be lost in a single fight and SuperCarriers aren't even counted. Fighting in T1 FFs, CAs, & BCs might as well be considered as arena mode since the time lost to re-ship and find a new fight is as valuable as the isk required to do it. There's too much money floating around, therefore PvP is meaningless? PvP is the #1 way to flush that money out of the system. Believe it or not, every ship lost in low or null sec affects the prices in Jita. Reduce the supply, increase the demand.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.25 19:13:00 - [252] Originally by: Cearain Mister Smithington I did not say blobbing = gate camps. But both are relatively safe forms of pvp that will boost your isk ratio. Neither are very attractive to me personally. I don't mind gate camping much more than blobbing, itÆs just not my thing. No, but you grouped them together as "lame pvp." And gate camps are far from safe. It's a form of territory control. To successfuly camp the gate, you must hold the gate. That means you're stationary, and Originally by: Cearain Originally by: Monger Man Edited by: Monger Man on 16/03/2011 20:19:28 ....Again. What is the vision we have. I think this is the most important thing. What will lowsec be instead of what it is..... I will again echo this request. . . Everyone here has different ideas on what low sec is, what's wrong with it (if anything), and what needs to be done about it (if anything). We don't agree on a vision because we don't agree on a problem. I gave my vision and plan to reach it a couple pages ago. There were others before that. The bulk of this thread has been disagreements on why this vision is not a good one, or why that plan of action won't work. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on us not coming to a consensus.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2011.03.25 19:41:00 - [253] Census opinions on lowsec (imo): -Supercaps shouldn't be here -Moons owned by sov alliances here are stupid (mostly because of the above) -Sec status and bounty system are easily abused/buggy and need work. I think the best fix is to dispose of the high end moons, ban the use of supercaps (if they are even allowed to travel through) in lowsec, and scrap the terrible bounty and sec status system, then merge the two into something that is functional.
Monger Man	Posted - 2011.03.25 23:08:00 - [254] I cant believe anybody would whine about not being able to have meaningful pvp in this game. This game has the most opportunity for a player to make whatever they want, to do whatever they want. To make whatever they want meaningful. No other game (mmo) I've played recently has the possibilities this has. For anybody to come into the forums and say CCP hasn't done enough work for meaningful player interaction is just ... well, I really don't know.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.25 23:52:00 - [255] Originally by: Monger Man I cant believe anybody would whine about not being able to have meaningful pvp in this game. This game has the most opportunity for a player to make whatever they want, to do whatever they want. To make whatever they want meaningful. No other game (mmo) I've played recently has the possibilities this has. For anybody to come into the forums and say CCP hasn't done enough work for meaningful player interaction is just ... well, I really don't know. Lots of people recognize that faction occupancy warfare is meaningless. I don't know that they are "whining" so much as stating a fact. I don't want it to be too meaningful where it directly puts isk in peopleÆs pockets and leads to blobs. But having some impact on New Eden would be nice IMO. I really havenÆt played other mmos much so I canÆt really comment on them. But why should CCP set its sights low just because other mmos suck? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.26 00:25:00 - [256] Originally by: Cearain Originally by: Monger Man I cant believe anybody would whine about not being able to have meaningful pvp in this game. This game has the most opportunity for a player to make whatever they want, to do whatever they want. To make whatever they want meaningful. No other game (mmo) I've played recently has the possibilities this has. For anybody to come into the forums and say CCP hasn't done enough work for meaningful player interaction is just ... well, I really don't know. Lots of people recognize that faction occupancy warfare is meaningless. I don't know that they are "whining" so much as stating a fact. I don't want it to be too meaningful where it directly puts isk in peopleÆs pockets and leads to blobs. But having some impact on New Eden would be nice IMO. I really havenÆt played other mmos much so I canÆt really comment on them. But why should CCP set its sights low just because other mmos suck? Cearain, "PVP" != "FW Occupancy". Just saying. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.26 02:06:00 - [257] Good point Liang! First make fw occupancy a pvp activity. Then make it have some meaning. I'm acting as though they already changed occupancy to pvp. I am predicting that they will improve fw occupancy mechanics in the first or second release after incarna gets settled. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Monger Man	Posted - 2011.03.27 00:42:00 - [258] Edited by: Monger Man on 27/03/2011 00:43:57 Edited by: Monger Man on 27/03/2011 00:42:33 Originally by: Cearain Lots of people recognize that faction occupancy warfare is meaningless. I don't know that they are "whining" so much as stating a fact. I don't want it to be too meaningful where it directly puts isk in peopleÆs pockets and leads to blobs. But having some impact on New Eden would be nice IMO. I really havenÆt played other mmos much so I canÆt really comment on them. But why should CCP set its sights low just because other mmos suck? Of course FW occupancy is meaningless. FW isn't the end game. Its just the beginning. Its a place for newer players to figure out pvp, cheaply, and in space where there are no bubbles. And "too" meaningful? You really cant have it both ways. Either it means something or it doesn't. I hear there is a corp in Intaki trying to setup a trade hub. You want something meaningful? why not help them clear up pirate gate camps? Help start trade routes? Occupancy in FW really isn't going to go to much farther than it is. Low sec isn't meant for players to rule over like 0.0 But we can do things there that will be talked about. If you so choose. Me personally. I like to stay on the quite side. Not attract to much attention. Don't need everybody and there brother trying to ruin my day.
Altered Ego Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.03.27 02:47:00 - [259] It's been years since I've been in FW, so I have a couple quick questions to refresh my memory before I post; 1) is it true that agents only give out combat missions? 2) only members of FW can get missions from FW agents?
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.27 03:23:00 - [260] Originally by: Altered Ego It's been years since I've been in FW, so I have a couple quick questions to refresh my memory before I post; 1) is it true that agents only give out combat missions? 2) only members of FW can get missions from FW agents? Answer to both questions is yes. Only combat missions and only fw members can get them. Keep in mind that the faction war missions are not like other missions. They are really better suited for low sec and are by and large a success. (for some factions they are too easy though) Generally you need to go between 6- 15 jumps through low sec and then when you get to the place you usually only have to shoot one ship or structure. ( there are a few where you need to pick something up but those are best declined.) Also FW missions have nothing to do with occupancy. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Altered Ego Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:34:00 - [261] Edited by: Altered Ego on 27/03/2011 12:35:39 (Thanks for the info, Cearain) A long, long time ago, I spent some time on FW. Great idea, but poorly executed, her are some ideas I have drummed up. Occupancy/Agents/Missions (and the pvp will follow) Give real and valuable benefits for having occupancy over a system, because right now mission running has no impact of occupancy and it should. This way it is worth while for a faction to defend a system, and for their enemy to take the system. Those in faction warfare should have an active stake in the success or failure of faction warfare. A - When a faction gains occupancy, NPC corps belonging to unfriendly factions will lose control of local stations. These stations will become controlled by another, similar NPC corp belonging to the new faction. For example: Nisuwa is a Caldari system with a single station called State Protectorate Logistics Support. If Nisuwa falls to the Gallente Federation, then the station would become the property of a similar Gallente NPC corp counterpart. In this case, the Federal Defense Union. *Note: once the system falls, perhaps the Gallente Federation will have to hire DUST mercenaries to actually seize the station. And what about the planets? B - When a system falls, original agents could either; 1) stay in the station and become inactive 2) stay in the station, give missions for the new owners and moan about collaborating with the enemy 3) become a refugee and flee to the nearest friendly/neutral station, in system or otherwise eg: There isnÆt an SOE station nearby, so when Nisuwa falls, the lv3 agent in the station has to flee to the nearest State Protectorate Stations; Rakapas or Nourvukaiken 4) disappear and be reactivated when the original system is retaken or there is a need for this particular agent in a newly taken system C - Have missions directly affect the war effort, such as a certain amount of missions have to happen in a system before a coin will appear for the invading faction to flip. Allow players to chose from a list of vulnerable systems that they want to mission in. This way, XYZ Corp can make a coordinated effort to retake Nisuwa instead of relying on random mission assignments. The Gallente Fed will be able to tell Nisuwa is a hot spot and can do missions in that system as well. D û More variety of missions, adds variety, but also a way for the less than aggressive players to aid the war effort 1) Escort û Escort an npc hauler delivering munitions to a vulnerable systemÆs bunker. The player will have to defend it against the enemy faction 2) Hauler û same as above, except itÆs the payer himself who is hauling to goods. So I would have to deliver 200 State Munitions (100m3 each) to Nisuwa to help XYZ corp retake the system. As an added incentive for the Gallente pilots to interdict these supplies, state munitions can be dropped just like any other loot and can be sold just like faction tags. E û FW should involve a greater selection of factions and cover all of low sec. This way players who may not be welcome in high sec but want to influence the Caldari war effort (either to help or hinder) could join MorduÆs legion or The Blood Raiders. F û Actually act like there is a war going on! Right now low sec isnÆt anything more than a Brazilian ghetto where the cops donÆt bother showing up after dark. CCP has the needed code with Incursion. So 50% of the work is done à modify it and start having NPC fleets show up as the coup-de-gras for winning occupancy for a system. Depending on what side they are on, PCÆs either can support or repel them. (Continued)*
Altered Ego Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:36:00 - [262] Edited by: Altered Ego on 27/03/2011 12:36:44 G û Research and manufacturing slots. Industrial types in FW should be the only ones who get access to research and manufacturing slots in militia stations and at considerably less (no?) cost. Perhaps they may have to running industrial style mission to earn them. However if the station changes hands, they will either loose their projects or incur a considerable penalty. So by participating in FW, they protect their interests. H û Ditch/fix the current mechanics for capturing a system. ItÆs lame. I - DonÆt force PVP, but create opportunities for it. The more chances/options/incentives players have to go out and make a difference in the war effort (the effort being something that benefits them) the more reason they actually have to go out and fight. The more players that are out there fighting, the more chances of PVP. Problem solved.
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.27 13:30:00 - [263] Originally by: Cearain Lots of people recognize that faction occupancy warfare is BORING. Fixed. As these forums prove, having e-peen rights is never meaningless.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.27 22:08:00 - [264] Altered ego I think you have many good ideas. The only thing is I don't think running missions should effect occupancy. I really think FW occupancy should be mainly decided by the players i.e., pvp. Incursions are a way to effect occupancy by pve if that is what someone wants to do in game. To add to your idea on what happens to the agents, in addition to what you said, maybe some just disappear after the station is taken over. Perhaps they perhaps they get a different job or die. Who knows? You might not know if they will reappear. Maybe they come back after the faction leaderships changes. Maybe they come back at a different level. If they are lowered they would probably grumble about the new faction leadership. If they come back at a higher level they will probably be fans of the new leadership. Originally by: X Gallentius Edited by: X Gallentius on 27/03/2011 13:40:35 You give meaning to occupancy warfare, not CCP. CCP provides the mechanics. ôMeaningö might be a bit too vague of a term. It may be more precise to say there should be some ôconsequenceö to taking over the system. Right now there is no consequence. The changes Altered Ego proposes are mechanical changes that only ccp can make. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Altered Ego Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.03.28 04:39:00 - [265] Originally by: X Gallentius Edited by: X Gallentius on 27/03/2011 13:40:35 You give meaning to occupancy warfare, not CCP. CCP provides the mechanics. So by that logic, if I give meaning to FW and yet I'm not there to participate (as are a lot of disappointed players) therefore, FW has no meaning. To Cearain; I understand that you want to increase pvp. I want to do the same things as well. However, I don't like the idea of CCP declaring 'Thou shalt PVP' and forcing players into pvp combat. However, if we increase the incentives for players to become involved in FW as well as more chances of players from the opposing sides coming into contact with each other, all this new PVP will happen organically.
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.28 14:57:00 - [266] You don't need a dot on a map to know that you occupy a system. If you really want to occupy a system and deny others from using it, then move there and occupy it. Anyways, I'm definitely not opposed to Faction Warfare specific stations switching sides if that system becomes occupied (by whatever false figure of merit is created and then exploited).
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.28 15:46:00 - [267] Edited by: Cearain on 28/03/2011 15:47:16 Altered ego I do see that there are plenty of activities that are conducive to shooting npcs. (sleepers, incursions, missions in high sec, missions in low and null sec, sanctums, ratting, and even fw missions.) And there is only one mechanic in all of eve that could be conducive to small scale pvp. That one is fw occupancy. I am just asking for a single mechanic in all of eve that supports small scale pvp. I don't think pver's should complain if there exists a single mechanic in all of eve that is not really geared to shooting xs. XGallenteus there can be valid mechanisms for occupancy that can't be exploited. Of course ccp would have to commit to working on the exploits as they arise. But it can certainly be done if they decided to do it. And no one is saying they want to deny others from using the system. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.28 15:53:00 - [268] So you want to have a dot on a map say you've occupied a system, but you don't actually want to occupy it? That, in a nutshell, is the problem with any of these occupancy figures of merit (including null sec).
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2011.03.28 16:26:00 - [269] Originally by: X Gallentius So you want to have a dot on a map say you've occupied a system, but you don't actually want to occupy it? That, in a nutshell, is the problem with any of these occupancy figures of merit (including null sec). X Gal, why not make it any NPC corp aligned with a faction and not just the FW corps' stations? Does it make sense that a Cal FW corp could have an office in a Roden Shipyards station? Or, to take the edge off my comment, why do you think the opposing faction forces should be able to use non-FW stations?
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.28 16:38:00 - [270] Edited by: X Gallentius on 28/03/2011 16:38:57 In a rp sense, CONCORD had the factions set up the Faction Corps and Stations to limit the war to those entities and not let it spread universe - wide. It's State Protectorate Militia versus Federation Defence Union Militia, not Gallente versus Caldari. And, those guys who use other corporations as stations shouldn't be affected by a limited war they aren't engaged in.



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