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How good are skill certificates?

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Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.03.12 13:52:00 - [1] I've played for 4 years and some days now, I don't need help from skill certificates myself, but should I tell new players to use them as guidance or not? How good are they? How well do they match up to actual play styles, including PVE playstyles, mining and so forth? Is CCP keeping it "real", or are the certificates badly defined? -- Salpad
Sjugar	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:02:00 - [2] some certificates are good to work to. Something like core competency standard is a good basis for any new player. So are the defense standard skills. Hull tanking elite is often lol-led at but actually also quite a good one. But people need to know certicates aren't the end all. Active shield tanking elite for instance requires all the shield compensations to 5 and tactical shield manipulation to 5. These are maybe good for a supercap pilot and the tsm to 5 is still under debate whether it's good bad or just not plain worth the long time to train it.
Pyrosomniac Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.12 21:19:00 - [3] Quite a lot of them are good stepping stones to work towards. They give good advice and goals for budding pod-pilots to guide their career. They only go so far though, and some elite certificates are useless / generally aren't pursued. In general though, they do match to some playstyles and gameplay mechanics.
Cindy Marco Minmatar Expanse Security	Posted - 2011.03.12 22:15:00 - [4] I think the lower level ones are great. The skills are pretty much what you would train if you started over/started an alt. The higher level ones are mixed. Some certificates have skills that are of questionable use. ôLife is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.ö - Bill Hicks
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.13 11:47:00 - [5] Standard and Improved certificates are very handy for new players to look at as they won't miss out on some obvious but badly named support skills that way. Now going for Elite certificates is something to do for fun when you start to run out of other useful skills to train for. I mean the only reason I spent nearly 2 months training Fleet Command 5 was to collect the Fleet Co-Ordinator Elite Cert.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.13 22:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 13/03/2011 22:07:07 The harvesting certs are kinda silly at Improved. None of my mining alts have them all yet, though they are all in Hulks with T2 crystals, also with perfect ice and gas harvesting. One mining alt is currently in a Rorqual training Capital Industrial 5 (blech, 52 days) even. I think the core and defense certs are perfect though.
Lukriss Caldari Notorious Legion Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.03.14 09:47:00 - [7] Certs hep in the sense that they allow newer players to see some skills that may be useful for a given ship, but not more than that. Originally by: Redloc I want to gank hulks in high sec! I have a dedicated miner account so I have the funds to throw away.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:04:00 - [8] Looking at the cert recommendations for a given ship, and then thinking very hard about whether you actually want to take the fifth level in any given skill, is probably sufficient to initially skill up for a given ship. By the time you've gotten most of the certificate-recommended stuff to 4, you should have picked up on what you need to take to 5 and what else you want to take just from flying the ship around and seeing how it handles. Basically, I'd say that recommending that someone follow the certificates for about the first month, tops, would be decent advice. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Magnus Witchspace	Posted - 2011.05.17 00:34:00 - [9] I don't 'get' certificates at all. It's the one button I never click on my display. If I want to fly a particular ship or improve a certain area of my game, I look up the skills required and train them. Certificates seem utterly useless to me.
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2011.05.17 01:58:00 - [10] some certs are good, some are bad. Since mining mentioned in the op. Look at gallente elite mining requirements. Lists armour tank certs as a requirement. Because you know...hulk's are best run as armour tanks lol. Most are decent though, or at least with a grain of salt are are decent guidelines.

Charles37	Posted - 2011.05.17 14:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Magnus Witchspace I don't 'get' certificates at all. It's the one button I never click on my display. If I want to fly a particular ship or improve a certain area of my game, I look up the skills required and train them. Certificates seem utterly useless to me. This is why they're useful. Being able to undock a ship is not the same as being able to fly the ship well. The "recommended certificates" tab under ship info gives you a good idea of what kind of skills you need to fly the ship well.
Darryl Ward	Posted - 2011.05.17 14:57:00 - [12] They are great guides for new players. Core skills work for all new players. And then, depending on their race, you can guide them towards the appropriate defense and offense certificates they should aim for. When I was a newer player, I found that following the certificates gave me better performance in missions as I completed skills than trying to pick my path myself.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.05.17 21:50:00 - [13] If its for a solo character then they're pretty decent indicators. Getting to them in a sensible way is another matter - Evemon is your friend there. For people with multiple characters then no, they're not that useful. Eg I have a close to maxed out bomber alt with 22mill SP but his certificates suggest he's utterly useless. For his role the certs are wrong. Were he a main (solo) character then they'd be right.
Cuircuir Moustache Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.18 12:49:00 - [14] I'd say it's a good way not to miss any important skill, but if followed by the letter they're also a good ways of training useless stuff. I for one have perfect skills for the drake but still miss some certificates because I don't have stupid skills like TSM5, afterburner5 or heavy assault missiles. TL;DR They are good but does not dispense you from reading the skills descriptions.
Jaseara	Posted - 2011.05.19 12:28:00 - [15] I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.19 16:59:00 - [16] Many of the elite ones are laughable for requiring pretty useless lvl 5's. Take a look at Research Manager Elite, you need research project management 5 (nothing at all to do with actual BPO research-just datacore farming) for that one and Sci Networking 5. The only reason I even got Sci Networking to 3 was because it let me get a couple certs, not much need for it that high otherwise.
Leekana Gallente Digital Messiahs	Posted - 2011.05.20 04:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Jaseara I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc I don't dislike this but I'm a bit iffy on it. Seeing as there is already implants that do this, i can't see it hurting. +1
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2011.05.20 09:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Tonto Auri on 20/05/2011 09:06:46 Originally by: Jaseara I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc You gain bonuses naturally training skills. Go dig the meaning of "Certificate" in dictionary. On topic: Certificates are good for start, frustrating at middle and disappointing or plain wrong at the end of the tree. Get EVEmon and get used to actually read skills descriptions and learning their implications. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Leekana Gallente Gearworks Industrial	Posted - 2011.05.20 19:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Tonto Auri Edited by: Tonto Auri on 20/05/2011 09:06:46 Originally by: Jaseara I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc You gain bonuses naturally training skills. Go dig the meaning of "Certificate" in dictionary. On topic: Certificates are good for start, frustrating at middle and disappointing or plain wrong at the end of the tree. Get EVEmon and get used to actually read skills descriptions and learning their implications. Thanks for being the first person to shoot this down -1. Anyways, I think your missing the point. A lot of level 5 skills don't unlock tech 2 and do little but move you into a perfection state for fitting / flying. The point is, if you take the time to get the cert. Which may require you getting skills you don't really need. You would get a bonus %. Don't belittle me with elitist "dictionary" definitions. Eve doesn't follow real world description. Using this example to express key features or elements of the game is bad.
Sonya Kranz	Posted - 2011.05.20 19:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Leekana Originally by: Tonto Auri Edited by: Tonto Auri on 20/05/2011 09:06:46 Originally by: Jaseara I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc You gain bonuses naturally training skills. Go dig the meaning of "Certificate" in dictionary. On topic: Certificates are good for start, frustrating at middle and disappointing or plain wrong at the end of the tree. Get EVEmon and get used to actually read skills descriptions and learning their implications. Thanks for being the first person to shoot this down -1. Anyways, I think your missing the point. A lot of level 5 skills don't unlock tech 2 and do little but move you into a perfection state for fitting / flying. The point is, if you take the time to get the cert. Which may require you getting skills you don't really need. You would get a bonus %. Don't belittle me with elitist "dictionary" definitions. Eve doesn't follow real world description. Using this example to express key features or elements of the game is bad. While i think doing something more with the certificates is an interesting idea, the bonusses idea that was suggested is so overpowered that it would most likely break alot of things instead of adding something useful. and on topic: the only elite certificates i have are elite core competency and elite hull tanking, the rest is all kinda weird. especially the basic and standards are good to work towards, and worth pointing out to newer players.

Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.21 07:04:00 - [21] As said before, standard and improved, after that they get a bit doubtful to be honest... But being an older player and a bit of a collector I do tend to train that one pointless skill to 5 just to get that elite certificate just because I can ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.05.21 10:24:00 - [22] Thanks for the replies. Is there a way to see a list of the certificates and what skillz they require at which level, without being logged in? -- Salpad
Super Failure	Posted - 2011.05.21 19:26:00 - [23] They serve their purpose ok because the lower ones are generally good. Higher ones can become silly.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.05.21 19:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Salpad Is there a way to see a list of the certificates and what skillz they require at which level, without being logged in? EVEMon. Otherwise I'm not aware of any but I get they're out there somewhere.
Pyrosomniac Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.21 22:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Leekana Originally by: Tonto Auri Edited by: Tonto Auri on 20/05/2011 09:06:46 Originally by: Jaseara I'd say certificates system is typical eye-candy stuff. It would be so simple and much more attractive if CCP add to to current certificates special bonuses after gaining elite status... eg x% velocity bonus after gaining velocity elity status etc You gain bonuses naturally training skills. Go dig the meaning of "Certificate" in dictionary. On topic: Certificates are good for start, frustrating at middle and disappointing or plain wrong at the end of the tree. Get EVEmon and get used to actually read skills descriptions and learning their implications. Thanks for being the first person to shoot this down -1. Anyways, I think your missing the point. A lot of level 5 skills don't unlock tech 2 and do little but move you into a perfection state for fitting / flying. The point is, if you take the time to get the cert. Which may require you getting skills you don't really need. You would get a bonus %. Don't belittle me with elitist "dictionary" definitions. Eve doesn't follow real world description. Using this example to express key features or elements of the game is bad. I've an idea how to tie it all together. Gaining a certificate implies that you have studied all areas of a topic, and can see the relationship between all key areas. So the certificate basically ties it all together. Hell, I'd give it a short training time for claiming, and boot it out as a feature! Imagine it! Train all topics for a certificate, then gain a bonus by training for a few hours to tie it all together.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.05.21 23:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Salpad Is there a way to see a list of the certificates and what skillz they require at which level, without being logged in? EVEMon. Otherwise I'm not aware of any but I get they're out there somewhere. Where in EVEMon can I see certificates? I've looked and looked, but I can't find them. -- Salpad
Pyrosomniac Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.22 00:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Salpad Is there a way to see a list of the certificates and what skillz they require at which level, without being logged in? EVEMon. Otherwise I'm not aware of any but I get they're out there somewhere. Where in EVEMon can I see certificates? I've looked and looked, but I can't find them. Create a new skill plan under "plans", then look under the certificates tab.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.05.22 11:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Pyrosomniac Originally by: Salpad Where in EVEMon can I see certificates? I've looked and looked, but I can't find them. Create a new skill plan under "plans", then look under the certificates tab. Thanks! I've never used EVEMon for anything except to see when it was necessary to log in and set a new skill. This opens up a whole new side of EVEMon to me. -- Salpad


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