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Nadea Semah	Posted - 2011.03.16 04:55:00 - [1] So i was wondering the other day. For those that (arguments sake) were raised with strong ethical and moral backgrounds- based on religion, or what not.. Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? Are you a hypocrite for condemning one action in real life, yet committing said action in eve? example: If irl i was a religious leader and railed against the devils brew, yet I was regularly spotted drinking it in public on Friday nights- that would be a hypocritical thing pure and simple.. If however, I railed against contract fraud all day irl, and then tried to sell a tritanium for 600mill isk repetively in high population systems- would that be the same as above? would that be transgressing ones moral outlook on real life? SO, for those who were raised with a very strong sense of justice, ethics, morality and so forth- be it from religious upbringing or secular- do you find it hypocritical to have a real life code, and a eve code by which you operate? I never ask questions like these that i dont answer (my moral code lol) but No, I do not consider it hypocritical if lets say a fundy pastor played eve as a very successful pirate and scam artist. and no we arent discussing wether religon robs folk irl does and to what extent your real life code of ethics carry over into your play style in eve? and what is the basis for your answer?
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.16 04:58:00 - [2] I have a very strong sense of morality and ethics IRL, but I'm an evil scammer in eve. The reason for this is that eve is a game in which this is an intended method of gameplay. Doing "bad" things in eve is no different than bluffing someone in poker, shooting people in counter strike, or bankrupting your opponents in monopoly. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Alotta Baggage Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:04:00 - [3] I did 3 tours in my 6 years in the USMC... so my real life morals are pretty much on par with my piracy life in Eve. I get an order to go and gank, I go and gank. I don't even feel bad about it Originally by: Valkoinen Heteromies I for one would love to be able to walk on stations and fly spaceships in the body of a little cute catgirl!
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:16:00 - [4] Not blue, shoot it. There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness.
Blacksquirrel	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:18:00 - [5] This is to assume that most people are out to **** whomever over at the fastest possible moment? Or say what I like to call "clubbing baby seal syndrome"? Meaning in Eve people will blast any and all targets...kinda like farming noob zones in lvl based MMO's. And then taking gloating over it. (Finding sport in what otherwise offers 0 challenge to put it another) I would have to say given my experience this is not the case IRL for a majority of people. Unless you're extremely pessimistic.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:20:00 - [6] EVE is a game that I play for fun. Some days, that fun involves roasting/robbing some chump (or doing both). Some days, I may be training some hapless newbie. (Said chump and newb may be the same person) I'll generally give the newbs some pointers to start, but after that... Let the harvest begin. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Dian'h Might I have a very strong sense of morality and ethics IRL, but I'm an evil scammer in eve. The reason for this is that eve is a game in which this is an intended method of gameplay. Doing "bad" things in eve is no different than bluffing someone in poker, shooting people in counter strike, or bankrupting your opponents in monopoly. This. It seems the worst a scam could possibly be is some form of rudeness, hardly anything unethical.
Hecatonis Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.16 05:58:00 - [8] i can say that i play eve, and all video games like i live life. i only head to retribution for those that deserve it, people who rob me, or the repugnant. i do find that i am helping random people around my home system more then i am doing things for my benefit. and when i have some good cash on hand and i am not pressed to buy a new shinny, i generally give a lot away to newbies. and the only kills i have ever done that wasn't in a corp war when they where camping my HQ was when i was in RvB, but common, you dont join RvB for the safety. yep, my strong morals pass into my gaming as well. i will roll that chaotic good any day. __________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain
Alpheias Euphoria Released	Posted - 2011.03.16 06:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Alpheias on 16/03/2011 06:23:54 Why not? I quiver at the thought that there are people out there right now, angry, because they lost in a internet spaceship game. But really, you shouldn't ask a misanthrope that question. You wouldn't like what I would say. ♫ When your ship gets blown to bits ♫ And you lose your Faction fits \☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.03.16 06:30:00 - [10] EVE scams are a tax on stupid people. --- Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2011.03.16 06:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Nadea Semah Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? No, not at all. In real life, I would not blow up ships for the sake of the shiny fireworks. In EVE I do, because it's not more and not less than a game. If I was raised on religious base, I'd have joined the Amarr and started massacring Minmatar.
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.03.16 06:57:00 - [12] When a player logs into EVE, they consent to all that is possible within the game universe. No such this as non-concensual pvp, if you log into a game that has pvp, pvp is gonna happen. When you log in to EVE you accept the rules of EVE. Scams, pirates etc are within the rules of eve. The fundamental difference between EVE and RL is if you don't like the rules of EVE you can log out.
Metathron S'Erum	Posted - 2011.03.16 07:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Nadea Semah So i was wondering the other day. [...] strong ethical and moral backgrounds- based on religion, or what not.. Wait, what? Religion and ethics...really? Originally by: Nadea Semah Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? Are you a hypocrite for condemning one action in real life, yet committing said action in eve? This. Is. A. Game.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2011.03.16 07:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Nadea Semah So i was wondering the other day. For those that (arguments sake) were raised with strong ethical and moral backgrounds- based on religion, or what not.. Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? First: I can absolutely promise you my ingame playstyle do NOT affects my real life! For me Eve is just another game. A game I love, but still a game! In private I am a dust collector of a museums worker. At home I am a totally non violent and ordinary family man. But I enjoy playing games - and eve is among my favorites. Not for the sake of violence in it, but for the sake of brain it requires to be good at it! And ofcource the social aspect of it, is ofcource important. I have also met plenty of people in EVE at two fanfests (2006 and 2007), and most of them are like me: family people with good morales - even the goons! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Burial Day Anti-citizen One	Posted - 2011.03.16 07:50:00 - [15] ^ 100% rationalizing, 100% flawed logic if you segregate morality and non-morality based on its contextual application, you're missing the point: morality is about people, not the "game" (i.e., the context) also, it is very easy to provide logical proof that real life can be interpreted as a game.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.16 07:53:00 - [16] SRS answer: This is a roleplaying game. What you think is wrong or right IRL doesn't matter here, we are all roleplaying in some fashion Not srs: Trololololololool ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
My Postman	Posted - 2011.03.16 08:03:00 - [17] I don¦t like to be scammed irl. Unfortunatly, from times to times it happens. Than i feel sad/angry. When this happens in eve i get my arazu/whatever ship and pewpew the bad guy, or at least try to get revenge. Some kind of difficult in rl as i¦m don¦t have any shotguns/357 magnum/pershings at home. Hence, i don¦t scam in game as i don¦t behave so irl. I¦m not a guy who feels good to ruin another ones day. I can perfectly see that others don¦t and the most bad guy in game might be quite nice irl. Long story short, it¦s a game, nothing more.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.16 08:06:00 - [18] Well, let me present you the other point of view. You are assuming that good and moral people will respond to this thread and hope to get justifications of their in-game actions by using "This is just an Internet pixel game about spaceships" or similar. That assumption is wrong. So... Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? No. I'm a real bastard in RL and pretty much don't care about people that I don't know. I carefully pick my friends and avoid getting into any society/interest group/political party because I don't think its leadership is smarter or more experienced than me and hate to give my time and/or money to a group that I don't control myself. I also don't like ideologies (be it religious, political, or any form of social ones) and like to stay independent. In game, I'm a helpful person that answers all questions and provide services to even friends of my friends even though I don't directly know them. I'm a member of Morsus Mihi as a society and I think that the leadership is smarter and/or more experienced than me. I dedicate my time, knowledge and ISK to help the corp, alliance and the coallition I'm in, even though I don't have direct profit from it. I'm not independent, I'm just playing my part in the alliance as good as I can. Are you a hypocrite for condemning one action in real life, yet committing said action in eve? For example, I would never give a single cent to a beggar - he's responsible for his own life. Why should I pay him for his own mistakes? In-game, I've helped many people (especially newbs) with free ISK, implants and ships. I don't really know if that makes me a hypocrite. SO, for those who were raised with a very strong sense of justice, ethics, morality and so forth- be it from religious upbringing or secular- do you find it hypocritical to have a real life code, and a eve code by which you operate? I was raised with the real strong sense of justice, ethics and morality. Then came a war to my country, then economic crisis, then political disturbances and mass riots, after that came another war, poverty, unemployment, corruption, etc. Justice became just a word used to justify the actions of those with power over those without it. Ethics and morality are completely optional. In one word, if you can make some cash from it, ethics and morality don't matter much. In order to survive, I had to adjust to the environment, so I did. In-game, I've always been an anti-pirate. For a long time I've operated under NRDS policy (ex-Provi block) and still operate under NRDS outside nullsec. I don't do suicide ganking, can flipping, contract and market scams, mission runner baiting, ninja salvaging, etc... even though there's much ISK to be earned from any of those activities. I don't think I'm a hypocrite, but merely a multidimensional person. does and to what extent your real life code of ethics carry over into your play style in eve? To some extent, yes it does. I always watch after my friends anywhere - in the game and in RL. and what is the basis for your answer? The basis is the fact that I'm free to be whoever I like to be. Limitations are only presented by the situation and the social surrounding that I'm in. Cheers
Zombieofice	Posted - 2011.03.16 08:06:00 - [19] Great topic! Lots of great chatter on this one. I try to play the game as close to RL as I can seeing as a major part of the game for me is the simulation. CCP has said many times their ultimate end goal is to create the end all of sci-fi simulators. It just so happens that I wanna simulate how I would fare in the sci-fi future this game portrays. Btw, was this a Crazy Kinux blog banter topic lately? If not, it should be!

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.03.16 08:54:00 - [20] I want to be a spaceship pilot in RL too! And I try to play it as close to RL as I can. /c Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Lex Dante	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Burial Day if you segregate morality and non-morality based on its contextual application, you're missing the point: morality is about people, not the "game" (i.e., the context) By that argument, a pacifist would be a hypocrite if they played Chess or Go. Originally by: Burial Day also, it is very easy to provide logical proof that real life can be interpreted as a game. Ah, good old appeal to authority, still as fallacious as ever. It's even easier to make an unsubstantiated argument and claim it's 'logical' though, yeah? Maybe people are a lot more complex than "your morals must be consistantly applied across every aspect of everything or you're a hypocrite". And context is important. I'm not "killing" anything in a game, I'm moving a state machine into another state. To claim that that's "immoral" kind of waters down the whole concept of morality, don't you think?
Machiavelli's Nemesis Angry Mustellid	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:19:00 - [22] Unfortunately the government thinks it's somehow wrong for me to hunt down and kill amarrians IRL, so I can't really live the way I play. I plan to start a petition on the matter soon though.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Nadea Semah Is your play style consistent with your Real life code of ethics?? No Quote: Are you a hypocrite for condemning one action in real life, yet committing said action in eve? No. I don't support unregulated capitalism and exploitation of the poor, but that doesn't mean I don't find enjoy crushing my opponents in Monopoly. It's called a "game" (aka "not reality"). If you can't separate the two, you need to go see a shrink and/or remember to take your pills. The only conceivable source of hypocrisy related to EVE would be if you were the kind of person who thought that escapism is bad for you. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Romo Skywind	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Romo Skywind on 16/03/2011 09:46:09 Scamming in Eve is, morally at least, the exact same as scamming in real life. You're tricking other people to take what's theirs and make it yours, with no regard to the pain you're causing others. You may only be stealing internet spaceship pixels, but that doesn't change the morality behind it. Anyone who thinks they can be a good person IRL yet be ruthless and cruel to strangers online is either deluding themselves, or incredibly naive. And any comparisons to other games (killing someone in counterstrike, monopoly, etc) doesn't work as in those games everyone knows exactly what they're getting in to. They agreed to play knowing full well that they may kill people, and they may die. Scamming, by definition, is the complete opposite of this. The scamee has no idea what he's getting into.
Valhallas New Eden Robotics	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:51:00 - [25] Scamming is part of the gameplay, and we all pick the types of gameplay in EVE that we enjoy. But if you are the type of person who gets enjoyment out of this type of gameplay, then that says a lot about what you are really like as a person. So for the people saying they have high moral standards in RL but are evil scammers in EVE, maybe you should consider that at a basic level you are quite a nasty person, but are projecting a false personality of niceness to the people around you, in order to fit into society or your religious group. Hmmm, thats some deep thinkin I did
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.16 10:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Romo Skywind Scamming in Eve is, morally at least, the exact same as scamming in real life. Scamming in EVE is, morally, the exact same thing as feinting left and going right in football. Quote: Anyone who thinks they can be a good person IRL yet be ruthless and cruel to strangers online is either deluding themselves, or incredibly naive. Anyone who can't separate the two needs to take his or her meds. Quote: And any comparisons to other games (killing someone in counterstrike, monopoly, etc) doesn't work as in those games everyone knows exactly what they're getting in to. Same thing here. If you get into EVE, you know exactly what you're getting yourself into: a game where scamming is part of the play book. Quote: The scamee has no idea what he's getting into. Completely different thing: he only has no idea what he's getting into in the same way the guy with his back to you in counter strike doesn't know what he's getting into (viz. getting shot in the back very soon), or the guy who hasn't rolled the die yet in Monopoly doesn't know what he's getting into (viz. having to part with a pile of money very soon). When the "scamee's" money is lost; when that guy gets shot in the back; when the monopoly player lands on [whatever is the most expensive square in your country's version] with a hotel onà he will know. More importantly: all those things are part of the game, and people expect them. If you're talking about "he didn't know what he was getting into" in the sense of "he didn't know it could happen" ù i.e. if he didn't expect them ù then maybe he should have read up on the rules and understood the game. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.03.16 10:07:00 - [27] ah, (in)famous e-honor :) honestly, at the end of the day, being at the wrong end of a gun sucks any way you look at it, whether you're scammed, camped, or head-shotted. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.16 10:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Romo Skywind Edited by: Romo Skywind on 16/03/2011 09:46:09 Scamming in Eve is, morally at least, the exact same as scamming in real life. Scamming in EVE is exactly the same as bluffing someone with a better poker hand than you into folding. Do you consider that "scamming in real life"? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Fondon	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Tippia Same thing here. If you get into EVE, you know exactly what you're getting yourself into: a game where scamming is part of the play book. Quote: The scamee has no idea what he's getting into. Completely different thing: he only has no idea what he's getting into in the same way the guy with his back to you in counter strike doesn't know what he's getting into (viz. getting shot in the back very soon), or the guy who hasn't rolled the die yet in Monopoly doesn't know what he's getting into (viz. having to part with a pile of money very soon). When the "scamee's" money is lost; when that guy gets shot in the back; when the monopoly player lands on [whatever is the most expensive square in your country's version] with a hotel onà he will know. More importantly: all those things are part of the game, and people expect them. If you're talking about "he didn't know what he was getting into" in the sense of "he didn't know it could happen" ù i.e. if he didn't expect them ù then maybe he should have read up on the rules and understood the game. The main difference between EVE and Monopoly is that while Monopoly has a stablished set of rules, EVE is a player driven world. As a sandbox EVE is meant to have the fewest possible rules in order to let players make their owns adjusting their activities to their very personal objectives. In EVE you can't win nor lose the way you're intended to win or lose in games like monopoly, poker or chess. MMOs are persistent worlds where your actions impact real people and in my opinion here's where the morality is defined, when you chose to interact in a positive way or in a negative one.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:59:00 - [30] Eve is a game, not a simulation. The fact that the individuals get to decide what winning entails is kind of moot, there is still a large distinction between how one behaves in the context of the game and in real life. There's a different goal. In real life, generally your goal is to be liked/respected by those around you, fill your basic needs, and be entertained. In a game of chess, your goal is either to simply win (in which case you can get pretty ruthless in how you play) or to socialize with the other player (in which case you probably 'play nice', even to the extent of intentionally throwing the game). Both of these are simpler and somewhat distinct from the dozens of different concerns and goals you balance in your life in general. Honestly, morality and ethics rarely come into _either_ set of behaviors, since they are generally trained behaviors designed to apply to fairly specific, uncommon circumstances. Your highly acute feeling that every human life is valuable doesn't really come into play when you're in a video game trying to pod someone, and it doesn't come into play when you're deciding which end of your foot-long to bite into first. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous

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