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Thor79
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:15:00 -
[1]
There currently exists no direct counter to Cloakers (direct as in, you have weak explosive resists, so I use explosive ammo). While this presents a good tactic for people wanting to play mind games (a perfectly valid tactic), or people just wanting to hide while being hunted down, it presents a problem when those people use it to grief, and choose not to play the game.
There needs to be a counter. I'm not saying you should be able to probe out a cloaker who is active, as that would ruin the mechanic. There needs to be a counter specifically to AFK cloaking. There's obviously very little to no code dealing with people who afk in the game. That's fine in normal circumstances. When its used to impair the abilities of an alliance to function normally, that is griefing.
I'm not saying a cloaker roaming about a system popping miners and ratters is griefing. I'm saying hiding in a safe spot, cloaking up, and then going to work or school, is griefing. You are choosing not to play the game, meanwhile, those who do choose to play the game, can't function normally because of the danger a neut or a red in system potentially poses. Even worse is a cloaked neut or red.
Before you accuse me of botting or macroing, stop right there. For most of the time I have played eve, I played in high sec solo. Much of my mining was semi-afk (or entirely afk for ice mining for short periods of time). I recently chose to join a 0.0 corp and move out to null. As a result, I effectively chose to take a more active role in my gameplay. How is it fair that when I take the time to go out and mine to try to make some isk, that my gameplay gets shut down effectively when someone else decides to go afk while cloaked in my system? Why should a tactic reward someone for not playing the game?
But, you say "they're afk, so why worry?"...you know that argument is full of it. You don't know they are afk, you have no idea when they could uncloak and lock you down and pod you (more often than not the cloakers in our systems are sporting strategic cruisers rather than covops frigates, so a miner or ratter really doesn't stand a chance). So you don't take that chance, you find something else to do, something that is probably considerably less profitable, or you simply don't play the game and just sit in your POS or station and chit chat until they go away. You can't do anything about someone who goes afk cloaked. You effectively can't bait them, as you have no idea when they will come back. So the PvPers who might help you out get bored, and go roaming or something, leaving you relying on yourself and the other miners/industrialists around you.
"Why even let them in your systems? Stop them at the gate!"....yeah this isn't so simple is it? You're asking a group of people who prefer to take a much more active role in the game (PvP), to sit on their butts for a while waiting for someone to uncloak after a gate fire. Most of them have itchy trigger fingers and would much rather be off roaming enemy territory, or at the very least ratting in an anomaly.
There needs to be a counter. I'm not saying it should be easy to attain the counter. It should probably require heavy skill training in astrometrics (or some advanced form of it) to get the ability to scan down an afk cloaker. There just needs to be some recourse people can have to hunt down the people who choose not to play the game, and instead grief those of us who do.
I'd like to see this topic stay on topic....solving the problem of AFK cloakers. I started this specifically because the last one got shutdown for ranting. So here's a thoughtful post with good reasons (IMHO) for introducing a counter for AFK cloakers. I'd like to hear your constructive comments both for and against a counter to AFK cloaking as well as your ideas for how to solve the problem. Thank You.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:18:00 -
[2]
tldr.
No.
HTFU.
tia.
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me me2
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:19:00 -
[3]
Edited by: me me2 on 18/03/2011 16:21:39
Threat reported as duplicate, rant, bottomless and trolling.
You cannot do anything when cloaked, that is the penalty of being cloaked.
If you want to mine for gold, go to WoW
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Grimpak on 18/03/2011 16:22:17
AFK cloakers.
not even on the keyboard, unable to do squat, and they still cause much rage.
 Originally by: Thor79
"Why even let them in your systems? Stop them at the gate!"....yeah this isn't so simple is it? You're asking a group of people who prefer to take a much more active role in the game (PvP), to sit on their butts for a while waiting for someone to uncloak after a gate fire. Most of them have itchy trigger fingers and would much rather be off roaming enemy territory, or at the very least ratting in an anomaly.
if they uncloak, they are not AFK, so your point is moot.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:22:00 -
[5]
They aren't a problem, so no solution is necessary.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar
JOKAS Industries
Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Joe Skellington on 18/03/2011 16:23:32
Wall of text crit me for over 9000.
Also TL;DR
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Rachel Vend
Gallente
Zend Insurance
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:25:00 -
[7]
There is a counter to AFK cloakers.
Don't let them into your systems in the first place.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:26:00 -
[8]
The obvious solution is to move over a system. That way you have peace and quiet from the big bad meanie who isn't even at his keyboard. When he shows up in local again you can be worried.
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CrackD0wn
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:28:00 -
[9]
i agree it does suck to have someone in system cloaked up in a safe spot. but it is a valid tactic its a kind of psychological warfare. obviously you know hes there if hes talking in local, but if hes got strict discipline at not talking in local then he could totally use this to his advantage. what would help would be for the residents of said systems to go out in a fleet roam through the system going from all the possible warp spots and throw up some mobile warp bubbles with cans in them. granted this would hurt and be like shooting a target 1000 yards away with a blind fold on. but its something.
the one thing i wouldnt mind seeing is where the cloaking device would automatically shutdown after 30 minutes or even 60 minutes. and hav e the covert ops ships have a bonus to the duration of the cloaking device to increase the length from say 30 minutes to 60 minutes. just my thoughts.
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Thor79
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:29:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Thor79 on 18/03/2011 16:30:35
Originally by: me me2
Edited by: me me2 on 18/03/2011 16:21:39
Threat reported as duplicate, rant, bottomless and trolling.
Clearly you don't know the definition of "rant" or "trolling".
Quote:
You cannot do anything when cloaked, that is the penalty of being cloaked.
Except warp about freely, or at the very least (with the most basic cloaks), move about at reduced speed. Those who afk cloak are usually always in covert ops equipped ships, so they can move about however they want, the only limitation being they can't get within 2000m of someone or they lose their cloak. This means they can easily get a tactical edge. And since they may do this after having been afk for 10 hours, there is no way to effectively counter (sure their are ways to temporarily counter the threat, but nothing that will last 10 hours realistically) their surprise appearance right next to your Hulk.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:30:00 -
[11]
There is a counter: minimize local.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Frau Klaps
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thor79
There needs to be a counter specifically to AFK cloaking.
You are choosing not to play the game, meanwhile, those who do choose to play the game, can't function normally because of the danger a neut or a red in system potentially poses. Even worse is a cloaked neut or red.
Much of my mining was semi-afk (or entirely afk for ice mining for short periods of time). I recently chose to join a 0.0 corp and move out to null. As a result, I effectively chose to take a more active role in my gameplay. How is it fair that when I take the time to go out and mine to try to make some isk, that my gameplay gets shut down effectively when someone else decides to go afk while cloaked in my system? Why should a tactic reward someone for not playing the game?
You don't know they are afk, you have no idea when they could uncloak and lock you down and pod you
So you don't take that chance, you find something else to do, something that is probably considerably less profitable, or you simply don't play the game and just sit in your POS or station and chit chat until they go away.
Sounds like it is YOU choosing not to play. 0.0 has risks, if you want to mine you should be prepared to include a defence force to protect you from risk.
If there are no neuts in local you can simply be alert and get safe as soon as someone enters local.
If there is one of these mystically OP AFK cloakers in system, then get some defence for your ops or just move next door or do something else. How can they follow you to the next system if they are afk? If they DO follow you then you know you need to get some support. Simple. Just because you are too lazy to accept the risks of 0.0 does not mean a fix is needed.
These whines are always the same, stop looking to get CCP to hold your hand and learn to deal with it, it's not difficult.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:33:00 -
[13]
I have a solution to AFK cloakers : ignore them.
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Hypatia Alexandria
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:33:00 -
[14]
You are absolutely correct! This psychological threat in the game should be "nerfed" by having cloaked ships vanish from local. |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:33:00 -
[15]
I think the afk cloaker broke his bot program :(
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Vito Antonio
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:35:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vito Antonio on 18/03/2011 16:35:11
Train "Detect Hidden"
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thor79
mind games (a perfectly valid tactic)
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Moody Fugher
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:37:00 -
[18]
didnt read anything u posted
defense fleet, fit point and omni tank
countered
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Kangaax
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:39:00 -
[19]
I have the perfect counter. Move to wormhole space.
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Kyo Haku
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:40:00 -
[20]
Or you could just, you know, go on with your business and ignore them. Odds are they're AFK if they've been there for more than an hour.
--
"Far be it from me to stand in judgment. I prefer to sit." -Stephen Colbert |
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Thor79
Edited by: Thor79 on 18/03/2011 16:30:35
Originally by: me me2
Edited by: me me2 on 18/03/2011 16:21:39
Threat reported as duplicate, rant, bottomless and trolling.
Clearly you don't know the definition of "rant" or "trolling".
Quote:
You cannot do anything when cloaked, that is the penalty of being cloaked.
Except warp about freely, or at the very least (with the most basic cloaks), move about at reduced speed. Those who afk cloak are usually always in covert ops equipped ships, so they can move about however they want, the only limitation being they can't get within 2000m of someone or they lose their cloak. This means they can easily get a tactical edge. And since they may do this after having been afk for 10 hours, there is no way to effectively counter (sure their are ways to temporarily counter the threat, but nothing that will last 10 hours realistically) their surprise appearance right next to your Hulk.
Show me proof they are AFK. And if they are how the hell do they warp around freely?
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DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:46:00 -
[22]
1. You know what i hate AFK Station spinners. I fly all the way out to a system and there are AFK people in a station. I should have a skill that makes people undock so i can play my game the way i like.
2. AFK people at a POS. I hate it when there are people sitting in a pos for hours AFK. I want a skill that can tractor them out of the Shield so i can kill them.
3. AFK people have never killed anyone.
4. A cloaked ship must uncloak before he can do anything. If he does that he is not AFK.
5. AFK people all over empire taking up band width wrecking my game.
6. The issue is AFK and until you find a way to police AFK by setting up a camera at my computer please stop with my game play. When i decloak you will know for sure.
7. How about getting rid of your free radar called local. This tool you didnt have to train but it is given to everyone and it has no counter.
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Petite Morte
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
7. How about getting rid of your free radar called local. This tool you didnt have to train but it is given to everyone and it has no counter.
This.
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Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.03.18 16:52:00 -
[24]
DELAYED LOCAL, That is all :)
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Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:02:00 -
[25]
I got a funny story =)
One day I was running Sanctums, and there was an AFK cloaker in the system. I didn't care much. So I opened up the in-game browser, and was browsing along, and all of a sudden I hear missile explosions, and I think "WTF, the camera is too far away from the NPCs for me to be hearing explosions on the NPC ships", then the next one hits, and I realise it's a torpedo sound, then I see the distinct torpedo shockwave at the edges of my screen, and think to myself "Well that's not right, Gurista torps don't hit that far oot (I'm Canadian, you see)", so I tab the browser, and there's this little bugger in a Manticore hittin me with torps. So I recalled my Medium Drones (I was keeping my NPC distance at 100_km), and targeted the Manti. Then I got on comms and called for reinforcements.
Well, my drones finally came back, then my light drones were deployed, then I got the target lock, then immediately he was gone :(
Anyways, he had been in the system for about 4 days.
Moral of the story: how do you know they're afk? There are people out there with no lives. Maybe they have two accounts and the cloaker alt stays in an enemy system, and they use the other character as their main. Even though they're not actively using their cloaking alt, does not mean they are away from the keyboard.
Also, staying cloaked in a system is not griefing, nor is it even close. Interesting angle, but wrong nonetheless.
_____________________________________
Real men corpse tank. |
Thor79
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:03:00 -
[26]
Guess it's too much to ask for people to try to use their brains and discuss a problem a portion of the community perceives as a problem.
Nothing but trolling in response. Go ahead and lock it ops...that's all it's going to get.
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Chandaris
Gallente
Lethal Devotion
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:06:00 -
[27]
No. Cloaking mechanics should remain as they are.
There should, IMO be no way to detect a cloaked ship.. If they do decide to do that, it better be exceedingly difficult to do.
And as someone else said, the counter to the fact that they are cloaked is LOCAL, and the fact that you know they are there.
You can't do anything to them, and they can't do anything to you while cloaked. So it's a stalemate
If youre mining/missioning ops are scared off by a cloaky in local, then you are noobs because you should know that as long as you are not on a belt, gate or station and don't see scanner probes he is not tracking you and is either providing local intel, or afk.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar
JOKAS Industries
Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:08:00 -
[28]
OP reminds me of this guy:
Linkage
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Frau Klaps
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Thor79
Guess it's too much to ask for people to try to use their brains and discuss a problem a portion of the community perceives as a problem.
Nothing but trolling in response. Go ahead and lock it ops...that's all it's going to get.
Which part of my reply was trolling? The bit where I indicate simple counters? Sorry if the effort is unreasonable for you.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Thor79
Guess it's too much to ask for people to try to use their brains and discuss a problem a portion of the community perceives as a problem.
Nothing but trolling in response. Go ahead and lock it ops...that's all it's going to get.
No you are just upset that everybody doesn't share your view and now every one is out to get you.
So now you know. Your idea sucks and the portion of the community you speak of is outweighed by the other portion that understand the mechanics and can deal with this part of the game . In which is very obviuos you are struggling with peeps crashing your one player version of the game.
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