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Slaves and Punishment

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Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.18 16:44:00 - [1] This is a question going out to all other Amarrians or whoever have slaves on their ships. If one was to get out of line or one was to steal whilst on the ship what would you do to them?
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 16:52:00 - [2] Eject him and his 10 closest friends out of the garbage chute. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.18 16:56:00 - [3] The other day, a child slave, stole food from my personal chambers. I beheaded both him and his father. I put their heads in the slaves sleeping quarters for an example to show what happens. I was just wondering how everyone else chose to go about punishing them.
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.18 16:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Dammion Orto The other day, a child slave, stole food from my personal chambers. I beheaded both him and his father. I put their heads in the slaves sleeping quarters for an example to show what happens. I was just wondering how everyone else chose to go about punishing them. You should perhaps behead whomever is in charge of your personal security and slave training, instead? Quite a lapse. Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.18 17:33:00 - [5] Let me just say...They are no longer on my ship either.
Katy Moore Amarr J. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:22:00 - [6] And what of your punishment? You failed in your duty as a Holder, what punishment are you going to receive? It is your responsibility for the spiritual well-being of the people under your authority, and you failed them. Amarrian Science at its finest
Esna Pitoojee Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:35:00 - [7] Circumstances would vary, but assuming they stole it for their own consumption and this is the first time those in question had stolen, I'd say it would generally involve taking those involved aside and asking them why they'd stolen from me. As such an incident would indicate a certain level of desperation on their part, I'd also ask if they or someone they knew was starving, then make sure this person was given an adequate meal in place of causing others to endanger themselves unneccesarily. Assuming the person in question was driven by a manic desire to take risks or steal things rather than some actual need, I would ensure that they recieved psychiatric counselling to assist them in controlling these urges... and possibly recruit them into my security forces, as someone that brave (and that good at breaking and entering, assuming they weren't supposed to be in your quarters) could, with training, prove to be a valuable member of a security force. This tends to inspire loyalty through acceptance of the fact that I actually care for them rather than merely making them fear me, which will eventually lead to anger, then hatred. ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.03.18 18:53:00 - [8] And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what the Matari people have endured for centuries. And yet, we are the "barbarians".
Lucius Vindictus Amarr East Khanid Trading	Posted - 2011.03.18 19:20:00 - [9] No amount of repression will prevent a brutalized crew to commit desperate acts of rebellion and sabotage. You'd be surprised how much better.. and safer... a ship runs when the crew is happy. Bio Blog
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 19:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Ava Starfire And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what the Matari people have endured for centuries. And yet, we are the "barbarians". You are quit ignorant by assuming that slaves are purely Matari. For the more sophisticated work I prefer smarter slaves. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.

Ava Starfire Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Killer Gandry Originally by: Ava Starfire And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what the Matari people have endured for centuries. And yet, we are the "barbarians". You are quit ignorant by assuming that slaves are purely Matari. For the more sophisticated work I prefer smarter slaves. And you wantonly display your own stupidity by proudly demonstrating your low levels of reading and comprehension. I said this is what the Matari have been enduring for centuries...this sort of treatment. At no point in time did I say that I was sure the slaves in question were or were not Matari, just that we have, historically, endured this sort of treatment for a very long time. Since you seem to be sort of slow, let me dumb it down: Amarr bad. Amarr hurt us. We not like it. We sick of it. They do this stuff to us, and others, but mostly, to us. For long time too. PS. The word is "quite" not "quit".
Raphael Saint Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Dammion Orto The other day, a child slave, stole food from my personal chambers. I beheaded both him and his father. I put their heads in the slaves sleeping quarters for an example to show what happens. I was just wondering how everyone else chose to go about punishing them. I am sure, Mr. Orto, that the cost of the food was equal to that of the slaves lost. I also like to destroy my investments when something goes just slightly awry.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Ava Starfire Originally by: Killer Gandry And you wantonly display your own stupidity by proudly demonstrating your low levels of reading and comprehension. I said this is what the Matari have been enduring for centuries...this sort of treatment. Heck if allmost a whole race is held under slavery, does that say something bad about the slavers or the lack of backbone of said race? Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:34:00 - [14] Lucius is correct. In Khanid, our slave class is an integral part of life. God commanded us to teach and uplift our slaves. If a slave were to develop an abnormality that made them steal, then we'd find out why and give the poor wretch as much guidance and re-education as needed until he could rejoin society. Of course, an adjustment of the slave's TCMC might be in order too. New Tales of the Dark Amarr
Ava Starfire Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.03.18 20:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Killer Gandry Originally by: Ava Starfire Originally by: Killer Gandry And you wantonly display your own stupidity by proudly demonstrating your low levels of reading and comprehension. I said this is what the Matari have been enduring for centuries...this sort of treatment. Heck if allmost a whole race is held under slavery, does that say something bad about the slavers or the lack of backbone of said race? Thank you for proving my assesment of you accurate.
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Katy Moore And what of your punishment? You failed in your duty as a Holder, what punishment are you going to receive? It is your responsibility for the spiritual well-being of the people under your authority, and you failed them. Originally by: Esna Pitoojee [...] This tends to inspire loyalty through acceptance of the fact that I actually care for them rather than merely making them fear me, which will eventually lead to anger, then hatred. Originally by: Raphael Saint I am sure, Mr. Orto, that the cost of the food was equal to that of the slaves lost. I also like to destroy my investments when something goes just slightly awry. Originally by: Lucius Vindictus No amount of repression will prevent a brutalized crew to commit desperate acts of rebellion and sabotage. You'd be surprised how much better.. and safer... a ship runs when the crew is happy. I support all of the above statements/viewpoints, whether they be explicit or implicit. You could have done something much more useful, whether it be questioning the offender to find and solve the root of the problem, or integrating and training the brave offender into a Kameira.
Nola Doyle NeuroGEN	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:03:00 - [17] What amuses me most are cries of inefficiency on the part of Mr. Orto in extinguishing the life of his property for perceived minor misbehavior. Even more absurd is expectation that his personnel be punished for the misdeed, for their perceived lack of oversight in allowing the act to happen in the first place. I would contend that as long as a sentient being is allowed to have a choice, no matter how terrible the consequence, that predictability of misbehavior should be accounted for. The flaw in logic is ever allowing property the opportunity to fail in the first place, which rests solely on the head of those who claim to be owners. Mr. Orto, if you are serious in your intent to maintain slaves aboard your vessels, I would strongly suggest taking more effective action to prevent this behavior from occurring again. NeuroGEN has several neurological treatment programs to induce compliance at the chemical level, ensuring that subjects remain attentive and engaged with your instruction. We also provide invasive nanite therapy techniques and sub-dermal implantation products that ensure obedience without the unnecessary poisoning and regressive fear techniques commonly used amongst your cast. Please contact me anytime for details. Regards, Dr. Nola J. Doyle Co-CEO, NeuroGEN
Half Cocked Jack	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Dammion Orto The other day, a child slave, stole food from my personal chambers. I beheaded both him and his father. I put their heads in the slaves sleeping quarters for an example to show what happens. I was just wondering how everyone else chose to go about punishing them. If this is your perspective, you are condemned. You may be blessed above all by God, but that comes with the caveat of being destined to toil all of your days in his glorious service. As Amarr, you are a shepherd in the darkness and an angel of mercy to those who do not know the light of faith. Your slaves are a gift of God's favor and a duty you must fulfill. You have desecrated that gift and forgotten your duty. You are but a child slave compared to your Lord, and you have stolen something from him much more precious than food. I suggest you recalibrate your perspective before it is your head being used as an example to your brethren. I'll pray for mercy on your behalf...but not much.
Ashar KorAzor Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Killer Gandry Eject him and his 10 closest friends out of the garbage chute. Listen not to the words of indolent foreigners that know little of the Faith when they seek to counsel you in spiritual matters. Originally by: Rek Jaiga I support all of the above statements/viewpoints, whether they be explicit or implicit. You could have done something much more useful, whether it be questioning the offender to find and solve the root of the problem, or integrating and training the brave offender into a Kameira. Heed not the words of the unrepentant Blood Heretic. Originally by: Nola Doyle Please contact me anytime for details. And try not to consort with the affiliates of Sansha's Nation, whether their association is current or former. In addition, Doyle's products are nothing particularly impressive or useful for the purpose at hand. Originally by: Half **ed Jack If this is your perspective, you are condemned. You may be blessed above all by God, but that comes with the caveat of being destined to toil all of your days in his glorious service. As Amarr... I am afraid, captain, that while your intentions might be pure you have run headlong into a social or cultural barrier. Generally speaking, most authorities will hold that matters of the Amarrian Faith are the sort that require us to keep our own council. We cannot but suspect the input of heathens, so unless you have at the very least converted we will have to discount what you have said. I should underline that it would be a mistake to discount the words of one of the Faithful if their message was the same as that of an improper source. Originally by: Dammion Orto This is a question going out to all other Amarrians or whoever have slaves on their ships. If one was to get out of line or one was to steal whilst on the ship what would you do to them? I expect you can recall my answer well enough. The answers of your fellows and the greater understanding of your handiwork have likely caused you suffering. Suffering of this specific kind, the kind that follows the discovery of a mistake, is a divine gift. It is God, giving you an opportunity to find wisdom. The wisdom will likely carry a weight, however, because the mistake has rendered you less pure, in history if not in soul, body, and mind. To regain a measure of what was lost, one may turn to penance. What will your penance be, captain Orto?
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Ashar KorAzor Heed not the words of the unrepentant Blood Heretic. "Listen not to the arguments and propositions of this individual, because he is this-or-that." Ad hominem, how very original!

Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Ashar KorAzor Lot of religious blabbering Slave = property. When property malfunctions you either get it fixed or get rid of it. Slaves are cheaper to get fresh ones than to educate them. So give me a good reason as why to waste ISK. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Kazuma Ry Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.03.19 01:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Kazuma Ry on 19/03/2011 01:37:48 Originally by: Dammion Orto The other day, a child slave, stole food from my personal chambers. I beheaded both him and his father. I put their heads in the slaves sleeping quarters for an example to show what happens. I was just wondering how everyone else chose to go about punishing them. Your form of punishment goes against any good holder should ever consider. As others have said, your did not find out why this happened. The child stole food, so the question must be asked, do you feed your slaves properly? Most likely the answer is going to be no, since any properly fed Slave should never have the need to steal food, since they know they get proper amounts each day. I would personally just give your slaves to another holder that is better at care and enlightenment, since your methods clearly are lacking the standards that is expected of any holder in this day and age.
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.19 02:55:00 - [23] Let me clear some things up about why I acted the way I did. First off, he had no reason to steal food. I always feed them the same amount I give everyone on my ship. The reasoning behind him stealing was that he wanted a challenge. I have caught him countless times stealing odd things. Every time I would take him and his father aside and tell them he needs to find a way for him to stop. He kept on, so I punished them both by adding more labor to their schedule. This went on for a week. Then that is when he got caught stealing from my chambers. So yes, I believe that he needed to be taken care of, I could have gone about it a different way now that I had time to think about it. I did it in anger and I shouldn't have done that.
Kazuma Ry Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:13:00 - [24] Edited by: Kazuma Ry on 19/03/2011 04:15:47 Your slave was a repeat offender at stealing from within. The problem here sounds like your ways of enlightening him were not working, and you should have looked for outside resources to help provide guidance and assistance.
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:19:00 - [25] If it happens again I shall do just that
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:34:00 - [26] Edited by: Sinjin Mokk on 19/03/2011 04:35:43 Originally by: Dammion Orto Let me clear some things up about why I acted the way I did. First off, he had no reason to steal food. I always feed them the same amount I give everyone on my ship. The reasoning behind him stealing was that he wanted a challenge. I have caught him countless times stealing odd things. Every time I would take him and his father aside and tell them he needs to find a way for him to stop. He kept on, so I punished them both by adding more labor to their schedule. This went on for a week. Then that is when he got caught stealing from my chambers. So yes, I believe that he needed to be taken care of, I could have gone about it a different way now that I had time to think about it. I did it in anger and I shouldn't have done that. To waste the lives of slaves is to live a wasteful life. That is impure. You exhibit a lack of control in your property and a lack of prudence in how you keep them. That shows your House is weak. A weak house makes the Empire weak. That is unwise. I strongly suggest you seek redemption and more than a little re-education. To assist you, I'll be making sure your name and this conversation is mentioned to your local office of the SPCS. New Tales of the Dark Amarr
Uraniae Fehrnah	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:43:00 - [27] As I don't own any slaves myself I can only share what I remember of my family's treatment of our slaves as I grew up. In all but the most extreme of cases my father felt that if a slave failed to obey, the failure wasn't the slave's, but his own. With that sort of perspective my family was perhaps very lenient by some standards. Positive reinforcement and education far outweighed punishment in most cases. I will concede however that perhaps there are simply some slaves who simply need a firmer hand, and further down that line, that some may never accept salvation through service.
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Uraniae Fehrnah I will concede however that perhaps there are simply some slaves who simply need a firmer hand, and further down that line, that some may never accept salvation through service. That is the way my family thought..I'm trying my best to go against that for the sake of the slaves.
Uraniae Fehrnah	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Dammion Orto That is the way my family thought..I'm trying my best to go against that for the sake of the slaves. I fail to see how it was for the sake of the slaves you executed. I'm sure there is a certain, debatable, value to the deterrent effect the execution had on your other slaves, but in the end I doubt the value of Faith when forced upon others. Faith built on a foundation of cruelty more easily crumbles into a ruin of corruption.
Dammion Orto	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:17:00 - [30] What I meant was I'm trying to go against my families teachings about how to deal with slaves..After seeing what executing slaves can do firsthand, I am willing to change my ways of thinking.



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