I need a life.

[quote=Shanija]

People who use them on Hurricanes, Ruptures, etc. fit their ships poorly and die as a result.

I'm sorry, did you just claim that T1 attack frigates are by and large able to sit 3-5km from a Thrasher and DPS down since the patch that boosted them? That's... special.

Also, I'm really tired of the incoherent ranting, straw man arguments, and personal attacks. I decided not to respond to most of those. It's why my post is so short.

-Liang

AAAGH! I'm a spaceship forum-warrior and I must be right in every PVP thread so I'll trawl your killboard history and quote your loss mails without any context of what actually was happening at that point in time. All to prop up my poorly thought out opinion, which was roflstomped three replies back.

Something tells me that this thread is actually a subtle plea to have ASBs nerfed.

Yes, yes you do. Go PVP and stop writing novels...

I would like to quibble about your math a bit. While obviously your math is good in the mundane case, the mundane case is never the case that gets used and abused. Consider that the Nano nerf didn't happen because people were flying around at 5km/s in Crows, but instead because people were flying around at 35km/s in crows.

With that in mind, it becomes obvious that a dual large ASB Cyclone can be made to tank somewhere between 1600-2300 DPS per booster. To put that in perspective, a dual large ASB Cyclone can tank 2.5-3 BCs per booster. Furthermore, it can do this while being completely immune to neutralization. There is no counter available to small gangs except bringing more people and taking more time. That's why ASBs are being fit to everything from famously armor tanked ships (Myrmidons) to famously shield tanked ships (Cyclones).

With regards to that specific fight, I believe it's worth mentioning that I never brought it up as an example of how ASBs are OP or not and I wouldn't really consider a fight between two ASB ships to be an interesting example of balance. Furthermore, I certainly wouldn't complain that a ship was tanking well when we were deliberately flying around in kite tanked T1 frigs. Some back of the napkin math tells me that if the Cyclone had been set up to maximum effect, the fight could have gone on for a long, long, long time. Totally neglecting shield and cap recharge I'd have expected 24,000+ seconds (about 7 hours) before running dry of cap boosters.

And finally, I'd say I made a pretty clear argument earlier in the thread why what we did (DPS with kiting ships) was the proper response when facing an ASB ship. You can make the argument that doing it in frigates was suboptimal and I'd agree.That doesn't mean that the tactic itself is any less viable. That we eventually did win is really a testament to the fact that ASB ships can be killed.

But then, I've never claimed that they couldn't. Just that they are powerful enough to provide an overpowered competitive advantage against ships that are not ASB fit.

-Liang

Ed: Do try not to read so much into his straw man arguments. :)

T2 ships are benefiting the most from a x-large ASB

Exception of Cyclone and Maelstrom mostly true.

take a Rapier for example.

I literally laughed out loud at this.
ASB Rapier boosts back all of its shields with one cycle of the ASB and gets volley'd far too easily to be of use. Rapiers, as well as the cookie cutter cane, are still buffer fits because they are better that way.
While the XL ASB Cane might be useful against solo drakes (wait, there's solo drakes w/o cynos?) they are not nearly as effective in small gang where 3 hurricanes will easily break it.

ASBs remain useful on tank bonused ships like Maelstroms and Cyclones (Found a 1.5b triple ASB Rattler once), etc and on small fast ships like frigate hulls, T1 and T2. However, they are not the be all end all of the most popular PVP ships (Canes Drakes and 1400mm Tonados).

If i remember correctly we saw an ASB fit everything fleet and well...it died pretty hard.

If you-re 3-5 k from a thrrasher to tackle it, you're tackling like a 4 year old, a point reaches 24 km and your frigate should be faster then the thrasher so if you are sitting at 3-5 km, again you are doing it wrong.

And on the damage the other guy is right, attacking minny ships which have Therm and Kinetic leaning tanks means he can tank you far easier then he should be able to, so again, you're doing it wrong.

This thread is one of the few on this entire forum where people are actually discussing the fact that you are simply misinformed, the personal attacks didn't start until you responded to logic by repeating your core statements with different words that mean the same thing, which in this game is just flat out begging people to start trolling.

Not for nothing, but even with an EM resist rig the EM hole on a minny ship is big enough to drive a truck through yet there your incorrect ammo using frigs sit throwing therm and kinetic damage at a ship designed to tank Kinetic and tanked heavily against thermal. Again the golf ball tank comparison come to mind.

And a note about the underlined bits, do you even own a dictionary or now how to use the one on google??????

saying something is suboptimal yet STILL viable is just... well not real intelligent? your admitting your tactics choice puts you at a disadvantage and then you cry about being at a disadvantage. That's like complaining you don't get paid enough at work and then turning down an offered raise.

"I think we have provably established that it was a viable tactic. It won, after all. Doesn't make it efficient or optimal, but certainly viable."

I'm not sure if you're serious either. You complain it took to long to kill it and that's unbalanced and bla bla bla but when called on using a bad plan that was guaranteed to take awhile you admit you knew that, so why are you complaining it happened the way you knew it would?????????

Yeah, you and your 4 or 2 friends depending on the mail dps'd down a dessy.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17349298

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17349302

Again something that SHOULD happen 2-4 frigs should smoke a dessy with little to no effort especially when the dessy is arty fit and you are point blank. so again, No, try again.

EDIT* http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17243275 Just found this, its a one time event, commonly know as a fluke. What's that saying? **** happens, do it a dozen times in a row with the same ship against the same ship yeah that's a problem. But you only did it once.

"Looks like that's getting into the realm that no active tank is going to matter in" I distinctly remember you telling me that inferior ships with inferior firepower and numbers can win with ASB's clearly not the case per the report linked by Red.

"But really, linking a battle report where a Sleipnir tanks 13 people and takes 90k raw damage is ... probably not going to help your cause"

Sure it does you keep insisting those mods let you win fights you shouldn't be able to, he lost and he should have lost. So where is his miracle victory brought about by the god like mod you hate so much yet use on EVERY PVP loss mail I can find?

"Also, I find it cute that you went and got your entire alliance to come post here Garreth."

This deserves it owns post, I have 2 guys show up days after you're buddies start trolling my posts and now I'm the one asking for help? You say you know and used to hang with Red, ask him if I bat phoned him and mickey or if he noticed the thread while he was browsing the forums.

Also how is 2 guys in my corp = "my entire alliance"?

Ah, my mistake. The fact that your corp/alliance starts posting rapidly in succession wouldn't at all mean that you quite possibly linked the thread and asked for help.



-Liang

I don't want to be involved, and this is a serious question; do people really ask for help in forum threads?

If i remember correctly we saw an ASB fit everything fleet and well...it died pretty hard.

Yeah, I've seen it before. Dozens of times, in fact. I've been on these forms for way too many years.

-Liang

If i remember correctly we saw an ASB fit everything fleet and well...it died pretty hard.

Ah, that was our battle. Hello! Basically what you saw was us dying for a fight (hisec WT weren't providing anything) and a test run of an idea with not enough everything. This was the first non-test server run we had. In other words, a typical skunkworks op.