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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
74
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:58:00 -
[121] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Hey Red, long time no see. Interesting battle report there. Looks like that's getting into the realm that no active tank is going to matter in. Consider that even the ship with the least number of people on its kill mail is well above any threshold that an active tank can ever matter in - ASB or not. That said, the ASB fit ships did quite well for themselves despite the fact you rather dramatically outnumbered them. But really, linking a battle report where a Sleipnir tanks 13 people and takes 90k raw damage is ... probably not going to help your cause. -Liang
eh true but we didn't show till the end. a carrier and maybe a couple drakes were shooting at them for a good while. and i never got in close enough to test out my 1800dps domi :P. then one of the rane guys had an overview issue and started shooting us and took too long to figure it out. does it need a nurf or is it too OP i don't think so. in my opinion armor reps are underpowered in the firstplace. ASB is just a fix in the long list of fixes to active tanks that ccp is going to make.
oh and i've been in that realm with active tank myrm with logi support. very interesting to see how well you can tank with dual armor reps and 2 scimis shield repping you against an equal sized fleet. If you are dying slowly means you can get the logi to keep you up. yes scimis but i was too lazy to shield fit it and i liked the active tank for ganking fleets. they go ooh he's all alone and his fleet is 30 au away. we can kill that! .... nope. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2032
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 05:04:00 -
[122] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote: eh true but we didn't show till the end. a carrier and maybe a couple drakes were shooting at them for a good while. and i never got in close enough to test out my 1800dps domi :P. then one of the rane guys had an overview issue and started shooting us and took too long to figure it out. does it need a nurf or is it too OP i don't think so. in my opinion armor reps are underpowered in the firstplace. ASB is just a fix in the long list of fixes to active tanks that ccp is going to make.
Yeah it's just the first in a long line of fixes that CCP is going to make, but they've already said that ASBs are too powerful in many circumtances. I'd say that's correct too. It'll be interesting to see what they do with them. Also, keep kicking ass. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
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Posted - 2012.09.02 05:23:00 -
[123] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:eh true but we didn't show till the end. a carrier and maybe a couple drakes were shooting at them for a good while. and i never got in close enough to test out my 1800dps domi :P. then one of the rane guys had an overview issue and started shooting us and took too long to figure it out. does it need a nurf or is it too OP i don't think so. in my opinion armor reps are underpowered in the firstplace. ASB is just a fix in the long list of fixes to active tanks that ccp is going to make.
oh and i've been in that realm with active tank myrm with logi support. very interesting to see how well you can tank with dual armor reps and 2 scimis shield repping you against an equal sized fleet. If you are dying slowly means you can get the logi to keep you up. yes scimis but i was too lazy to shield fit it and i liked the active tank for ganking fleets. they go ooh he's all alone and his fleet is 30 au away. we can kill that! .... nope. It's funny because instead of having many local tanks, you can have buffer tanks and a bunch of logis that together can rep more than a couple of ASBs.
Especially with fleets that use alpha-based tricks, ASBs probably wouldn't like projectile winmatar arty-on-everything attacks. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2033
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 05:51:00 -
[124] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Red Teufel wrote:eh true but we didn't show till the end. a carrier and maybe a couple drakes were shooting at them for a good while. and i never got in close enough to test out my 1800dps domi :P. then one of the rane guys had an overview issue and started shooting us and took too long to figure it out. does it need a nurf or is it too OP i don't think so. in my opinion armor reps are underpowered in the firstplace. ASB is just a fix in the long list of fixes to active tanks that ccp is going to make.
oh and i've been in that realm with active tank myrm with logi support. very interesting to see how well you can tank with dual armor reps and 2 scimis shield repping you against an equal sized fleet. If you are dying slowly means you can get the logi to keep you up. yes scimis but i was too lazy to shield fit it and i liked the active tank for ganking fleets. they go ooh he's all alone and his fleet is 30 au away. we can kill that! .... nope. It's funny because instead of having many local tanks, you can have buffer tanks and a bunch of logis that together can rep more than a couple of ASBs. Especially with fleets that use alpha-based tricks, ASBs probably wouldn't like projectile winmatar arty-on-everything attacks.
Yes, I would expect that ASBs do not scale to the FLEET level.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 06:00:00 -
[125] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Red Teufel wrote:eh true but we didn't show till the end. a carrier and maybe a couple drakes were shooting at them for a good while. and i never got in close enough to test out my 1800dps domi :P. then one of the rane guys had an overview issue and started shooting us and took too long to figure it out. does it need a nurf or is it too OP i don't think so. in my opinion armor reps are underpowered in the firstplace. ASB is just a fix in the long list of fixes to active tanks that ccp is going to make.
oh and i've been in that realm with active tank myrm with logi support. very interesting to see how well you can tank with dual armor reps and 2 scimis shield repping you against an equal sized fleet. If you are dying slowly means you can get the logi to keep you up. yes scimis but i was too lazy to shield fit it and i liked the active tank for ganking fleets. they go ooh he's all alone and his fleet is 30 au away. we can kill that! .... nope. It's funny because instead of having many local tanks, you can have buffer tanks and a bunch of logis that together can rep more than a couple of ASBs. Especially with fleets that use alpha-based tricks, ASBs probably wouldn't like projectile winmatar arty-on-everything attacks. Yes, I would expect that ASBs do not scale to the FLEET level. -Liang I actually wonder how many say tornados you need to blast an ASBed ship. to EFT ~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2033
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 06:02:00 -
[126] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: I actually wonder how many say tornados you need to blast an ASBed ship. to EFT ~
After all, there was that thread a while ago that claimed a small gang with Tornados could kill most things and that they needed a nerf etc etc. Probably because the person got popped, wonder if he was also using an ASB fit.
4-6 Tornados to volley an ASB Cyclone.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
55
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Posted - 2012.09.02 06:07:00 -
[127] - Quote
the reason they worked in the AT so effectively was the time limit, even in small engagements they can be killed fairly easily, http://pizza.evegank.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4926 the fight was actallu just our 5 drakes and the hyena against the three cs, theyd been in there shooting stuff earlier and mucked up our kb. That said when can I start using my AAR?
-edit ope the link in a new tab, it's doing that no kill id dealy again if you just click on it SLAPD - Star Scientist, I science stars |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2033
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 06:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
Cat Casidy wrote:the reason they worked in the AT so effectively was the time limit, even in small engagements they can be killed fairly easily, http://pizza.evegank.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4926 That said when can I start using my AAR? -edit ope the link in a new tab, it's doing that no kill id dealy again if you just click on it
I like how you outnumbered them 13 to 3 and they still took down your Abso. But, you're right - if you have all night you can generally run them dry and kill them.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
55
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Posted - 2012.09.02 06:13:00 -
[129] - Quote
Abso was later in the night while i was drunk, lost it to the drake and talos, that fight was just the drakes vs the sleip, claymore, and astarte SLAPD - Star Scientist, I science stars |
Arbiter Reformed
Analog Folk SRS.
50
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Posted - 2012.09.02 13:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
jus sayin... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16746075
tengu got out in hull and i died as abso was 10% hull |
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Robert Warner
Snap Crackle Pop. AAA Citizens
50
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Posted - 2012.09.02 13:35:00 -
[131] - Quote
Here's how I see it in a nut shell:
ASB (dual set-up) is over-powered for skirmish PvP.
Active tanking small ships is useless for any kind of fleet battle (N/A).
Solution: remove the ability to apply multiple ASB's to a ship.
Result: ASB has its purpose in small gang PvP where it can extend the life span of some ships (until it needs to reload) without allowing the ship to be effectively invincible. Active shield tanking will be useless in fleet battles which it was anyway - nothing changed.
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Recoil IV
Far From Sober
15
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Posted - 2012.09.02 13:41:00 -
[132] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
If this mod doesn't get nerfed/rebalanced with every other defensive system, then CCP's lost its mawbles.
asb in my opinion is just awfull.doesnt even need nerf |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 13:46:00 -
[133] - Quote
Robert Warner wrote:Here's how I see it in a nut shell:
ASB (dual set-up) is over-powered for skirmish PvP.
Active tanking small ships is useless for any kind of fleet battle (N/A).
Solution: remove the ability to apply multiple ASB's to a ship.
Result: ASB has its purpose in small gang PvP where it can extend the life span of some ships (until it needs to reload) without allowing the ship to be effectively invincible. Active shield tanking will be useless in fleet battles which it was anyway - nothing changed. Hm, when you put it that way... It wouldn't be good for small-scale pvp to end up with "ASB, let's just go." Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 15:27:00 -
[134] - Quote
Whoever says dual ASB is a problem is utterly delusional.
Dual ASB setup > any active tank setup Single ASB setup > any passive tank setup
Now it ain't rocket science to come up with right conclusion. 14 |
M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
46
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Whoever says dual ASB is a problem is utterly delusional.
Dual ASB setup > any active tank setup Single ASB setup > any passive tank setup
Now it ain't rocket science to come up with right conclusion.
Its a problem because its ENCOURAGES the blobs, as the only way to kill them is out DPS it or alpha it, both of which requires having much larger numbers.
It effectively kills solo PVP, which isnt a problem since this is an MMO, but it also kills SMALL gangs, which are a lot of fun.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
692
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 12:03:00 -
[136] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
If this mod doesn't get nerfed/rebalanced with every other defensive system, then CCP's lost its mawbles.
Seems CCP thinks it's ok mod so just use it. Let those getting blown up throw tears at CCP. brb |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
839
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 12:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
Riiiight. Except for this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And this. edit: Oh, and this one too.
This ^^ +1
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 14:35:00 -
[138] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Whoever says dual ASB is a problem is utterly delusional.
Dual ASB setup > any active tank setup Single ASB setup > any passive tank setup
Now it ain't rocket science to come up with right conclusion. Its a problem because its ENCOURAGES the blobs, as the only way to kill them is out DPS it or alpha it, both of which requires having much larger numbers. It effectively kills solo PVP, which isnt a problem since this is an MMO, but it also kills SMALL gangs, which are a lot of fun. The same is true for single asb, which encourages blobs in just the same way, increasing the time required to score a kill.
Also, there's nothing wrong with playing solo in a MMO, since you're playing against other players. Whoever compares solo PvP to soloing Twitter is a complete moron and totally misses the point. 14 |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 14:39:00 -
[139] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
If this mod doesn't get nerfed/rebalanced with every other defensive system, then CCP's lost its mawbles. Seems CCP thinks it's ok mod so just use it. Let those getting blown up throw tears at CCP.
Except that CCP has already said the ASB is too powerful. That's usually a sign for "We're going to nerf it" in some way. There's so many ways that could go that I'm not even going to try to guess how it'll go down. It could be really minor... it could be really major. Either way I suspect we'll see armor changes at the same time.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1270
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 14:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
Not OP enough yet. The Omen can't use it effectively and still kill things. |
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 15:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
If this mod doesn't get nerfed/rebalanced with every other defensive system, then CCP's lost its mawbles. Seems CCP thinks it's ok mod so just use it. Let those getting blown up throw tears at CCP. Except that CCP has already said the ASB is too powerful. That's usually a sign for "We're going to nerf it" in some way. There's so many ways that could go that I'm not even going to try to guess how it'll go down. It could be really minor... it could be really major. Either way I suspect we'll see armor changes at the same time. -Liang I literally have my fingers crossed on them unleashing the nerfbat at its best. The damn thing boosts almost twice (!) as much HP of what it should, and minor changes simply won't change anything. 14 |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
27
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Posted - 2012.09.03 21:29:00 -
[142] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Jori McKie wrote:
T2 ships are benefiting the most from a x-large ASB
Jori McKie wrote:
Exception of Cyclone and Maelstrom mostly true.
take a Rapier for example.
I literally laughed when you said Rapiers are good ASB ships. ASB Rapier boosts back all of its shields with one cycle of the ASB and gets volley'd far too easily to be of use. Rapiers, as well as the cookie cutter cane, are still buffer fits because they are better that way. While the XL ASB Cane might be useful against solo drakes (wait, there's solo drakes w/o cynos?) they are not nearly as effective in small gang where 3 hurricanes will easily break it. ASBs remain useful on tank bonused ships like Maelstroms and Cyclones (Found a 1.5b triple ASB Rattler once), etc and on small fast ships like frigate hulls, T1 and T2. However, they are not the be all end all of the most popular PVP ships (Canes Drakes and 1400mm Tonados).
You won't laugh when you face that kind of Rapier in a kiting small scale 3-5 gang. An ASB Rapier has about 5k raw shield hp 1x boost cycle reps about 900hp, you are a little over the top with your claim. Usually a Rapier or Huginn is the primary for any opposing kiting gang and usually a passive Rapier dies or is forced off grid but with a x-large ASB fit that Rapier can stay on field much longer and will cause havoc. And yes alpha is/will be a problem but in small gangs you won't have that much alpha, test it and you won't laugh anymore. The same deal with Falcons. The funny thing is most Recons have absolutly no fitting problem to get 1 x-large ASB online.
An ASB Cane deals very well against 2 passive Canes actually you will be able to tank the DPS of 2 Canes and laugh about the neuts. And you commentary about solo Drakes shows me that you have no clue about small scale. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1719
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 21:41:00 -
[143] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:If you're not, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what you're flying. I haven't made a fit in the last 3 months that wasn't Single or Dual ASB fit, even if it was meant to armor tank.
If this mod doesn't get nerfed/rebalanced with every other defensive system, then CCP's lost its mawbles.
I would like to know more.
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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
76
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Posted - 2012.09.03 21:52:00 -
[144] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Jori McKie wrote:
T2 ships are benefiting the most from a x-large ASB
Jori McKie wrote:
Exception of Cyclone and Maelstrom mostly true.
take a Rapier for example.
I literally laughed when you said Rapiers are good ASB ships. ASB Rapier boosts back all of its shields with one cycle of the ASB and gets volley'd far too easily to be of use. Rapiers, as well as the cookie cutter cane, are still buffer fits because they are better that way. While the XL ASB Cane might be useful against solo drakes (wait, there's solo drakes w/o cynos?) they are not nearly as effective in small gang where 3 hurricanes will easily break it. ASBs remain useful on tank bonused ships like Maelstroms and Cyclones (Found a 1.5b triple ASB Rattler once), etc and on small fast ships like frigate hulls, T1 and T2. However, they are not the be all end all of the most popular PVP ships (Canes Drakes and 1400mm Tonados). You won't laugh when you face that kind of Rapier in a kiting small scale 3-5 gang. An ASB Rapier has about 5k raw shield hp 1x boost cycle reps about 900hp, you are a little over the top with your claim. Usually a Rapier or Huginn is the primary for any opposing kiting gang and usually a passive Rapier dies or is forced off grid but with a x-large ASB fit that Rapier can stay on field much longer and will cause havoc. And yes alpha is/will be a problem but in small gangs you won't have that much alpha, test it and you won't laugh anymore. The same deal with Falcons. The funny thing is most Recons have absolutly no fitting problem to get 1 x-large ASB online. An ASB Cane deals very well against 2 passive Canes actually you will be able to tank the DPS of 2 Canes and laugh about the neuts. And you commentary about solo Drakes shows me that you have no clue about small scale. Edit: Just so you aren't in the dark, a scram ASB Cane has no invul instead you fit a T2 shield ampli. You can consider that kind of ASB Cane as "passive" with extended buffer tank.
M1k3y Koontz and the people he flys with know what they are doing so typically doesn't matter how pimp you are you'll die. |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 22:23:00 -
[145] - Quote
If you say so .......
I don't care about what you think, i know how good that ASB Rapier and Falcon is. Same deal with an ASB Cane, i know first hand what that ship is capable of. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2043
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:14:00 -
[146] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:M1k3y Koontz and the people he flys with know what they are doing so typically doesn't matter how pimp you are you'll die.
Red, I know that you guys are the most amazing 20-40 man PVPers in the entire game. Nobody can stand before your glorious might and awesomeness. However, that's not small gang warfare and the game is entirely different at the small gang levels. So far I haven't really seen anyone in your alliance that has a decent amount of small gang experience at all - and the experience that they do have tends to be pretty poor. I've just been mostly unimpressed with the small gang experience coming out of your alliance.
So while you say things like "it doesn't matter how pimp you are, you'll die"... do you think that'd be true in the environments that this thread is primarily centered around? That is to say: small gangs? Just judging from his killboard record, I'd have to say things would go decidedly poorly for him. Even if he is the world's best 20-40 man gang PVPer.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2043
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:16:00 -
[147] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:If you say so .......
I don't care about what you think, i know how good that ASB Rapier and Falcon is. Same deal with an ASB Cane, i know first hand what that ship is capable of.
No question the ASB Cane is absolutely wicked, but I really prefer the Cyclone. I've been looking into that ASB Rapier too - I might give it a try some time. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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