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Do Target Painters affect turret damage?

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Kaladine Atrix	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:03:00 - [1] Simple question but I can't seem to get a definitive answer - do Target Painters affect turret damage? Or are they only useful for missiles/rockets/torpedoes?
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:07:00 - [2] damage - no dps - yes. Yur turrets will not hit harder thx to TP, they will hit better on some targets. ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 19/03/2011 22:13:50 Well they can up your dps and don't make your guns cycle any quicker so yes, damage is better if you needed the bigger sig to track well enough to do 100% theoretical/paper dps. Then there's also more chance of the >100% hits and less of 0% misses I believe. I think drones also benefit, as should all corpmates but mostly people bring webs instead as these have a similar dps application effect plus help with tackling/GTFO.
Alonzo Harris	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:22:00 - [4] Painters affect target sig radius, sig radius affects the tracking formula. Realise that if the sig radius is already very big compared to the turret's size it doesn't help much. But bigger sig makes it "easier" to hit so you'll do more dps overall and it also increase the quality of the hit so, on average, you'll do more damage per hit.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:32:00 - [5] A target painter is about the equivalent of a 27.3% strength stasis webifier, if that helps. With, like, 8x the range and twice the cycle time (which can be both a good and a bad thing. Personally, I wish they'd reduce the cycle time and cap use on the damn things).
Firvain Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Akuma Tsukai damage - no dps - yes. Yur turrets will not hit harder thx to TP, they will hit better on some targets. DPS - damage per second. so how can they increase DPS but not damage, unless you fire faster which makes your damage be the same but increases your DPS, so yeah your got it wrong. They increase sig radius on enemy ship which makes it easyer for your guns to track target and do full damage on them
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Men Who Stare At Gates	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:55:00 - [7] Because not every EFT DPS is 100% DPS ingame, thats why a painter can increase your DPS without the need to add damage or improve your RoF.
Crabs Collector	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Firvain Originally by: Akuma Tsukai damage - no dps - yes. Yur turrets will not hit harder thx to TP, they will hit better on some targets. DPS - damage per second. so how can they increase DPS but not damage, unless you fire faster which makes your damage be the same but increases your DPS, so yeah your got it wrong. They increase sig radius on enemy ship which makes it easyer for your guns to track target and do full damage on them They wont increase the maximum damage, but the average dps will raise abit.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:00:00 - [9] I think the distinction you're actually trying to draw is "potential" versus "applied" damage. Damage and DPS have two separate meanings already, corresponding to the relationship between things like volley damage and cycle time. Target painters do not affect potential damage or DPS. They asymptotically increase applied damage (and DPS) toward the potential value. Eve is a complex game, and it's important to use the right words to describe the issue at hand, lest people get confused. That said, I'm still not sure if the community has worked out what the word "passive" means, yet...
demonfurbie Minmatar Drunken Wookies BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:08:00 - [10] dont forget painters help every one in gang not just you
Kaladine Atrix	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:46:00 - [11] OK, so what I'm getting from all the replies here is that the target painter will increase your AVERAGE damage, but not your max damage with a turret. Does that sound right or am I reading these replies wrong?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:49:00 - [12] A target painter will reduce the amount of damage mitigated via tracking issues. So if you're having tracking problems, a painter will reduce them and you'll do more DPS. If you're not having tracking issues, then it won't do much apart from looking quite cool.
Kaladine Atrix	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:01:00 - [13] ok, so right now I'm flying an AC Rupture, but I'm planning to switch to an Arty Rupture. I know that arties have issues with close targets, so would a target painter help in this situation? Or would I just be better off using a webifier?
Alonzo Harris	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:52:00 - [14] If you do lvl 2 missions you're fine with AC's, if you do switch to 650's then yes sure a painter would help but the real answer is that your drones should take care of the small targets your guns can't handle. Also, if you do missions for Minmatar you mostly run into angels so you'll want to shield tank that ruppie, you won't have slots for tp or web :)
Kaladine Atrix	Posted - 2011.03.20 03:08:00 - [15] Edited by: Kaladine Atrix on 20/03/2011 03:08:57 Originally by: Alonzo Harris If you do lvl 2 missions you're fine with AC's, if you do switch to 650's then yes sure a painter would help but the real answer is that your drones should take care of the small targets your guns can't handle. Also, if you do missions for Minmatar you mostly run into angels so you'll want to shield tank that ruppie, you won't have slots for tp or web :) I am doing L2 missions yes and I do run into Angels quite frequently, but I'm also running into Caldary ships a lot and get hit by a ton of kinetic/explosive damage. So my goal here is to take advantage of the 6 low slots on the Rupture and turn it into an armor tank that I can switch 2 armor hardeners to suit the mission. This would free up the 3 mid slots, so I'm thinking a target painter, stasis web, and whatever I need to make the rest of the build work (probably something to increase cap regen so the armor repairer can run longer). Right now I'm using 2 shield hardeners and an extender in my mid slots, which I'll essentially carry down to low slots and replace with armor equivilants, and use the other 3 lows for a damage control, repairer, and gyrostabilizer.
Izuru Hishido Amarr Lethal Dosage. Violent Society	Posted - 2011.03.20 05:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Kaladine Atrix Simple question but I can't seem to get a definitive answer - do Target Painters affect turret damage? Or are they only useful for missiles/rockets/torpedoes? Yes. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.03.20 07:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Kaladine Atrix Edited by: Kaladine Atrix on 20/03/2011 03:08:57 Originally by: Alonzo Harris If you do lvl 2 missions you're fine with AC's, if you do switch to 650's then yes sure a painter would help but the real answer is that your drones should take care of the small targets your guns can't handle. Also, if you do missions for Minmatar you mostly run into angels so you'll want to shield tank that ruppie, you won't have slots for tp or web :) I am doing L2 missions yes and I do run into Angels quite frequently, but I'm also running into Caldary ships a lot and get hit by a ton of kinetic/explosive damage. So my goal here is to take advantage of the 6 low slots on the Rupture and turn it into an armor tank that I can switch 2 armor hardeners to suit the mission. This would free up the 3 mid slots, so I'm thinking a target painter, stasis web, and whatever I need to make the rest of the build work (probably something to increase cap regen so the armor repairer can run longer). Right now I'm using 2 shield hardeners and an extender in my mid slots, which I'll essentially carry down to low slots and replace with armor equivilants, and use the other 3 lows for a damage control, repairer, and gyrostabilizer. You've got the right idea on how to fit ships, but you shouldn't mix active and buffer (Except in high-level wormholes and certain PVP situations, don't worry about it). The damage control is certainly nice, but a third hardener will do you better. Try this. [Rupture, Missioner (Armor) vs angels] Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Gyrostabilizer II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Cap Recharger II 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Better yet, switch the arty for 425 autocannons and kick some butt.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.20 08:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Aamrr A target painter is about the equivalent of a 27.3% strength stasis webifier, if that helps. With, like, 8x the range and twice the cycle time (which can be both a good and a bad thing. Personally, I wish they'd reduce the cycle time and cap use on the damn things). And immediate application. That would make the 3rd applied web just slightly better FINAL effect (i.e. after target has slowed down, which takes time) then painter, so first painter would be better then final effect of fourth web. Is that calced on a 37.5% painter, i.e. named/t2 with maxed skills? Oh, and painter beats TC with tracking script, and does it for everyone in fleet.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:27:00 - [19] Yes, that calculation assumed maximum skills. Sorry if that was a bit much. Perhaps a 36% paint would have been a better assumption.
Alonzo Harris	Posted - 2011.03.21 05:16:00 - [20] Edited by: Alonzo Harris on 21/03/2011 05:18:36 Originally by: Kaladine Atrix I am doing L2 missions yes and I do run into Angels quite frequently, but I'm also running into Caldary ships a lot and get hit by a ton of kinetic/explosive damage. So my goal here is to take advantage of the 6 low slots on the Rupture and turn it into an armor tank that I can switch 2 armor hardeners to suit the mission. This would free up the 3 mid slots, so I'm thinking a target painter, stasis web, and whatever I need to make the rest of the build work (probably something to increase cap regen so the armor repairer can run longer). Right now I'm using 2 shield hardeners and an extender in my mid slots, which I'll essentially carry down to low slots and replace with armor equivilants, and use the other 3 lows for a damage control, repairer, and gyrostabilizer. While that may be logical, to most people actually, it's not what you should be doing. You see, most people look at a ruppy's slotting (3 mid, 5 low) and go "aha, it's an armour tanker", but it's not... for several reasons. - shield regen fits are quite powerful tanks because they make use of midslots, rigs but also low slots. Armour tanks are just low slots and possibly rigs, the rest you need for cap - armour SUCKS against explosive/kin damage, so if you do missions for Minnie you're much better off using shield - active rep fits use tons of cap which you might have issues with at low SP, shield regen fits lower you carp recharge this is true but as Minnie doesn't use cap to do damage it doesn't matter - the Hurricane uses the same philosophy for the same reasons and the Maelstrom for lvl 4 is a shield tanker. Besides, most Minnie PVP fits shield tank as well, might as well focus on shield anyway. Here's a fit for you to work with, the only things important I made named, the rest is up to you fill with named or not. [Rupture, Low SP lvl 2] Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Gyrostabilizer I Gyrostabilizer I Tracking Enhancer I 10MN Afterburner I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 425mm AutoCannon I, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon I, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon I, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon I, EMP M Small Tractor Beam I [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Warrior I x5 Warrior I x1 The fit works because of three things; oversized shield extenders, purger rigs, shield power relays. Normally you'd add resists to that as well but it's not needed, might as well fit an AB instead. Would you want more tank simply replace a gyro with a third SPR. Guns up top are personal preference but I wouldn't use arties for lvl 2's, way too many fast&small movers in those missions.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2011.03.21 06:36:00 - [21] Dont use TP for solo on turret boats. Use tracking computer - much better. Regards I.
Deerin Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.21 08:14:00 - [22] Originally by: AstarothPrime Dont use TP for solo on turret boats. Use tracking computer - much better. Regards I. I kinda disagree with this one. The signature increase provided by TP helps tracking more than a tracking computer with tracking script does. Tracking computers have the flexibility of adding a range script, thus increasing optimal and falloff when the situation requires. ------------------------------------------- Die Amarr Die!!!
Billy Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:39:00 - [23] A target painter is generally better than a tracking computer (with a tracking script) for a couple of reasons. 1. It provides a bigger bonus to tracking. A well-skilled target painter provides a 37.5% bonus to a target's signature radius, which is equivalent to a 37.5% bonus to tracking. The tracking computer will generally add only 30%. 2. The target painter will not be stacking-penalized with your tracking enhancers and rigs. If you put tracking enhancers and tracking rigs on your ship then any tracking computer will not apply its full effect and/or reduce the effect from mods and rigs lower in the stacking list. Target painters have stacking penalties only with other target painters, so chances are you'll see a much bigger benefit to tracking with a target painter.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:20:00 - [24] Try this. Eve Tracking Formula: http://wiki.eve-id.net/Tracking ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Terianna Eri Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2011.03.22 04:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Billy Kidd A target painter is generally better than a tracking computer (with a tracking script) for a couple of reasons. 1. It provides a bigger bonus to tracking. A well-skilled target painter provides a 37.5% bonus to a target's signature radius, which is equivalent to a 37.5% bonus to tracking. The tracking computer will generally add only 30%. 2. The target painter will not be stacking-penalized with your tracking enhancers and rigs. If you put tracking enhancers and tracking rigs on your ship then any tracking computer will not apply its full effect and/or reduce the effect from mods and rigs lower in the stacking list. Target painters have stacking penalties only with other target painters, so chances are you'll see a much bigger benefit to tracking with a target painter. While these are of course true it's worth noting that not only does a tracking computer have the option to increase your range, but also that target painters have limited range whereas the effect of a tracking computer does not ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Zin Zy	Posted - 2011.03.22 07:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Billy Kidd A target painter is generally better than a tracking computer (with a tracking script) for a couple of reasons. 1. It provides a bigger bonus to tracking. A well-skilled target painter provides a 37.5% bonus to a target's signature radius, which is equivalent to a 37.5% bonus to tracking. The tracking computer will generally add only 30%. 2. The target painter will not be stacking-penalized with your tracking enhancers and rigs. If you put tracking enhancers and tracking rigs on your ship then any tracking computer will not apply its full effect and/or reduce the effect from mods and rigs lower in the stacking list. Target painters have stacking penalties only with other target painters, so chances are you'll see a much bigger benefit to tracking with a target painter. While these are of course true it's worth noting that not only does a tracking computer have the option to increase your range, but also that target painters have limited range whereas the effect of a tracking computer does not And the fact that TC do not need to be applied, like TP's do. And with the long cycle time of the TP, you miss a lot of "help"
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:00:00 - [27] Yes painters increase damage, just not on EFT. If you understand that sentence, you'll be fine. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:56:00 - [28] I would describe it like this. Target Painters will NOT improve your theoretical maximum Damage that you see in EFT What they do is they make it more likely you get close to that number in real game scenario. This goes for all weapons. Turrets or missiles. Pod
Billy Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:36:00 - [29] EFT does take target painters and tracking computers into account, though. The effects of target painters and tracking computers are noticeable (and comparable) in the "DPS graph" function. You can use those graphs to decide for yourself which is better given your particular set of circumstances.
Jahpahjay	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Billy Kidd A target painter is generally better than a tracking computer (with a tracking script) for a couple of reasons. 1. It provides a bigger bonus to tracking. A well-skilled target painter provides a 37.5% bonus to a target's signature radius, which is equivalent to a 37.5% bonus to tracking. The tracking computer will generally add only 30%. 2. The target painter will not be stacking-penalized with your tracking enhancers and rigs. If you put tracking enhancers and tracking rigs on your ship then any tracking computer will not apply its full effect and/or reduce the effect from mods and rigs lower in the stacking list. *Target painters have stacking penalties only with other target painters*, so chances are you'll see a much bigger benefit to tracking with a target painter. I would just like to point out that, no, target painters are not stacking penalized, so the more painters you have the better and better the results (up until having a bigger sig radius no longer makes any difference in the damage equations).

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