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Incursion lag and ccp policy to reinbursment

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marshall26	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:17:00 - [1] Edited by: marshall26 on 22/03/2011 11:35:35 Edited by: marshall26 on 22/03/2011 11:30:55 Hey guys Am a experienced incursion running pilot who has come accross alot off lag over the past few weeks. As the fleets are running the sites they can be between 5-10 second lag spikes and make running incursions very dangerous as logistics have to work alot harder then what they should have too Now some days are better then others but overall this is unacceptable me myself have lost a ship due to this lag as have others too, when petitioned the response from ccp is that it is something on are end and won't replace the ship lost but if its gameplay surely they should right? But if a fleet off 10-70 pilots experience the lag what are the odds that all off us who are on different connections have the same problem? this issue has to be taken serious by ccp and something must be down as they know where the systems of the incursions spawn so surely they can turn the bandwith up? if u run incursions and have experienced lag running them or lag whilst been in a incursion spot please let me know on this thread or your thoughts on this matter this can be a start off a petition thank u to have had the time to read this Marshall26
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:22:00 - [2] I don't know about experiencing lag, but I experienced a mild burning sensation in my corneas attempting to read your post.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:24:00 - [3] Not sure if serious.
Tlaltiplac	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:30:00 - [4] Edited by: Tlaltiplac on 22/03/2011 11:31:42 Well there always one person that puts a really smart reply back. I have also experienced lag for about 3 days after the most recent patch. perticually during the periods of 16th - 18th March. Before then lag was not an issue. I know for a fact is was not my connection, as I am on a dedicated business line at 20 meg which does not get throttled. I almost lost my ship on the 18th in a 10 man vanguard fleet in the Amarr incursion (cannot remember the exact system) and there has been many reports of other pilot experiencing the same during that time. Infact - looking over the three day period quite a few people reported to loose their ships. I think CCP should have re-imbursed those people who did genuinly loose their ships due to the lag spikes that day. I know if I had lost my ship I would of expected nothing less.
Planetary Genocide Gallente Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Rura-Penthe	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:33:00 - [5] Line breaks, son. Line breaks.
The Offerer	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:35:00 - [6] Join the club. 0.0 players say that for years, but they call them "trolls" and refuse to take any action.
marshall26	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:38:00 - [7] Yes but the difference between 0.0 and incursions is that with incursions ccp know where the systems spawn where in 0.0 ccp don't know where are when i fight is going to happen and if there is a big fleet battle then u have to send them a notification.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:40:00 - [8] You can't reimburse ships because of lag. Every time a large number of people come together to fight there will be some lag and every hcange to the game can alter the amount of lag the players experience. Yes it is unfortunate when it happens to you and you lose a ship, but the only rational thing to do in a game like this is to not reimburse anyone because of lag. Basicly keep your interference to a minimum and just let the players know that lag is an inherent risk in internet gaming and that you try to keep to a minimum, but it will always be there and they just have to adjust to it.
The Offerer	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:42:00 - [9] Originally by: marshall26 Yes but the difference between 0.0 and incursions is that with incursions ccp know where the systems spawn where in 0.0 ccp don't know where are when i fight is going to happen and if there is a big fleet battle then u have to send them a notification. They do know very well where and when most of the fights will happen. That's why they have fleet fight notification form. Incursions shouldn't have been deployed before lag was fixed, or customer support tools upgraded. Now, the problem is even worse and affecting almost everyone in the game.
Xavier Isaacson Minmatar Surface Detail	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:45:00 - [10] Im thinking about the Call of Duty series here. They are gmaes with a fixed number of players on a small map, the total opposite of EVE, and which also suffers from hideous lag. I would say that CCP are doing a brilliant job dealing with it to be honest. Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
Tlaltiplac	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:47:00 - [11] if I remember correctly - Vanguard sites are 10 man. Now If you take the average encounter mission at lvl 4 you will have somewhere in the region of 10 - 20 ships on your screen. and in some cases you are looking at 30 or so. In a Vanguard site the same theory is applied - 10 man fleet with no more than 10 ships spawned at any one time. now for the 2 and a bit years i have been playing I have never had a peoblem with lag. Funny enough, even in places like Jita, I have no problems. From my point of view - it is CCPS's side and there is a issue here that does need to be adressed.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.22 12:15:00 - [12] Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/03/2011 12:15:29 As per the reimbursement policy, you are not allowed to get any ships back lost to lag or any internet related issues... either on your end or CCPs. If you are feeling lucky, petition it anyway and hope you get a GM with a "creative" outlook on what the policy actually means. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Scarengath	Posted - 2011.03.22 12:22:00 - [13] I have played EVE for a number of years now and can say, as a mission runner primarily during that time, I have rarely experienced lag. I am now heavily involved in Incursions and since this last patch I have had Horrendous lag in "pockets" which have less than HALF the number of ships than in Level 4 missions, with 10 second lag spikes approximately every 2 minutes or so. As a logistics pilot, it makes my life very difficult and I have, unfortunately, lost fleet members because of this. As a DPS vessel, it makes me extremely wary of bringing my Nightmare (which i have been using for a long time in incursions) into these areas - especially as I experienced HUGE lag one day and almost lost it. Thankfully I didn't cause apparently I would not have it replaced?! I know every game can suffer form lag, but this is getting beyond a joke. CCP cannot, in good conscience, say this problem is on OUR end if so many people are experiencing this. I admit CCP have done a great job with Lag issues over the years but this seems to be 1 step back for them and with people losing ships due to it (in my case 1.2bil if logi hadn't caught my Nightmare in time) something needs to be done and SOON. If it continues I can assure you that I, for one, will no longer be doing incursions and will return to the sedate and (apparently) Lag free world of mission running.
B3RT	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:40:00 - [14] I am in agreement with original topic content there should be re-enbursment.
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:49:00 - [15] you are new ?
xXlag generatorXx	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:55:00 - [16] They all so should reimburse my mega that died 6 hours after I logged at SS in one fleet fight
Fred 1	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:00:00 - [17] It seems to me that, if so many experienced pilots are suffering losses in the same situation ,due to curcimstances completly beyond thier controll. Then something should be done to fix the issue, and those pilots should be reimbursed.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Loraine Gess I don't know about experiencing lag, but I experienced a mild burning sensation in my corneas attempting to read your post. Ugh, you're lucky. After reading that, it burns when I pee.
xXlag generatorXx	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Fred 1 It seems to me that, if so many experienced pilots are suffering losses in the same situation ,due to curcimstances completly beyond thier controll. Then something should be done to fix the issue, and those pilots should be reimbursed. It is almost year and half when CCP introduced new feature in fleet fight called lag, even 50 players could break node. Is lag beyond payers control in 0.0: yes, are players reimbursed in 0.0: no
Goose99	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Goose99 on 22/03/2011 14:16:07 Originally by: The Offerer Join the club. 0.0 players say that for years, but they call them "trolls" and refuse to take any action. That is player blob induced lag, not the same as server produced lag with only 10 ppl on grid and 30 in system. In one case, you and your 500 friends are responsible for the lag, in the other, the server gives you and 9 other ppl lag in low population systems. In the former, break up the blob, go somewhere else, and no more lag, in the other, break up your 10 ppl gang and nothing happens, because you're not responsible for the lag to begin with.
marshall26	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:16:00 - [21] yes but the debate is when your running vanquard sites u are only a fleet of 10 with no more then npc u have in a level 4 mission so would u think with the amount going on would lag up for 10secs i don't think so.....
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:39:00 - [22] Don't worry; Once "Walking in stations" is introduced you'll be able to run back to your corpse and claim it. -)Peace through supreme firepower(-
Tlaltiplac	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:41:00 - [23] I just want to make this clear for those 0.0 trigger happy pilots. These problems are happening in high sector incursions. where there is no more than 40 - 50 people in local at any one time. I can understand CCP being dubious about refunding null sec pilots who loose there ships, probably because it is player induced lag. However, when your looking at High sector where the population is widespread and therefore not many people are congrigated in one area then ccp should listen to what is going on and investigate the problems. From my own exeprience the lag has happened fairly recently. as I explained from around the 16th of march. prior to that I have personally not eperienced any problems. But when you have multiple players experience the same lag issues in different locations where the population is not very high then there is a problem I can't believe for one minute that these lag issues in high sec are player induced.
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:19:00 - [24] I disagree with the OP entirely. You can't reimburse ship loss for lag. I am sure most of the time what people are claiming is "server lag" is really client side or PC side lag. Basically you have a **ty ass PC with a ty ass internet connection with spyware and viruses all over trying to run EvE and you can't tell the difference between that and actual server lag. I have been in some huge fleet battles in 0.0 and had some massive lag to where you can't even fire a weapon because the system is so backlogged in requests that it takes 5 minutes to fire a weapon or turn it off. But the client is still working...you can still look around...you can still click stuff...THAT is server lag. I always turn my graphics down and sound off for those battles. I have done a few Incursions too...never experienced lag of any sort from the server. Did my client lag from all the on screen? Sure. The point is...since there are too many people that can't tell the difference for themselves how can you just replace ships for lag? Everbody would petition stating lag caused the loss...and everybody would expect thier ship back. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!**
Goose99	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi I disagree with the OP entirely. You can't reimburse ship loss for lag. I am sure most of the time what people are claiming is "server lag" is really client side or PC side lag. Basically you have a **ty ass PC with a ty ass internet connection with spyware and viruses all over trying to run EvE and you can't tell the difference between that and actual server lag. I have been in some huge fleet battles in 0.0 and had some massive lag to where you can't even fire a weapon because the system is so backlogged in requests that it takes 5 minutes to fire a weapon or turn it off. But the client is still working...you can still look around...you can still click stuff...THAT is server lag. I always turn my graphics down and sound off for those battles. I have done a few Incursions too...never experienced lag of any sort from the server. Did my client lag from all the ** on screen? Sure. The point is...since there are too many people that can't tell the difference for themselves how can you just replace ships for lag? Everbody would petition stating lag caused the loss...and everybody would expect thier ship back. No, that is lag caused by you and your 500 friends. In other words, you caused the lag, it's your fault. Incursion lag with gang of 10 and 20 ppl in local is caused by faulty patch. Patch caused the lag, it's CCP's fault.
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi I disagree with the OP entirely. You can't reimburse ship loss for lag. I am sure most of the time what people are claiming is "server lag" is really client side or PC side lag. Basically you have a **ty ass PC with a ty ass internet connection with spyware and viruses all over trying to run EvE and you can't tell the difference between that and actual server lag. I have been in some huge fleet battles in 0.0 and had some massive lag to where you can't even fire a weapon because the system is so backlogged in requests that it takes 5 minutes to fire a weapon or turn it off. But the client is still working...you can still look around...you can still click stuff...THAT is server lag. I always turn my graphics down and sound off for those battles. I have done a few Incursions too...never experienced lag of any sort from the server. Did my client lag from all the on screen? Sure. The point is...since there are too many people that can't tell the difference for themselves how can you just replace ships for lag? Everbody would petition stating lag caused the loss...and everybody would expect thier ship back. No, that is lag caused by you and your 500 friends. In other words, you caused the lag, it's your fault. Incursion lag with gang of 10 and 20 ppl in local is caused by faulty patch. Patch caused the lag, it's CCP's fault. I think you need to read my post. I doubt you truly understand what "server lag" caused by CCP really is. And frankly your comparison is weak. The server lags when there are too many objects in a system and too many requests being made by players for the server to be able to process adequately. Whether that is caused by too many players in system or too many rats in space...its still server lag. And you still aren't going to get reimbursed for the loss. It seems to me that the number of people experiencing this so called "lag" while doing incursions is few and far between...indicating the issue is likely on the players end. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!**
marshall26	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi I disagree with the OP entirely. You can't reimburse ship loss for lag. I am sure most of the time what people are claiming is "server lag" is really client side or PC side lag. Basically you have a **ty ass PC with a ty ass internet connection with spyware and viruses all over trying to run EvE and you can't tell the difference between that and actual server lag. I have been in some huge fleet battles in 0.0 and had some massive lag to where you can't even fire a weapon because the system is so backlogged in requests that it takes 5 minutes to fire a weapon or turn it off. But the client is still working...you can still look around...you can still click stuff...THAT is server lag. I always turn my graphics down and sound off for those battles. I have done a few Incursions too...never experienced lag of any sort from the server. Did my client lag from all the ** on screen? Sure. The point is...since there are too many people that can't tell the difference for themselves how can you just replace ships for lag? Everbody would petition stating lag caused the loss...and everybody would expect thier ship back. quite clearly u aint got a clue what this thread is about 0.0 is usually caused by player lag when a blob fight has 1000+ in local the point we are making is i have all graphics and brackets turned down only 18 in local and i have a stable connection and since the last update something is happened i have never had lag and before update incursions where fine so unless u have something relating to high sec incursions then don't bother commenting because the 2 topics are totally different!!!!
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:34:00 - [28] Originally by: marshall26 Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi I disagree with the OP entirely. You can't reimburse ship loss for lag. I am sure most of the time what people are claiming is "server lag" is really client side or PC side lag. Basically you have a **ty ass PC with a ty ass internet connection with spyware and viruses all over trying to run EvE and you can't tell the difference between that and actual server lag. I have been in some huge fleet battles in 0.0 and had some massive lag to where you can't even fire a weapon because the system is so backlogged in requests that it takes 5 minutes to fire a weapon or turn it off. But the client is still working...you can still look around...you can still click stuff...THAT is server lag. I always turn my graphics down and sound off for those battles. I have done a few Incursions too...never experienced lag of any sort from the server. Did my client lag from all the on screen? Sure. The point is...since there are too many people that can't tell the difference for themselves how can you just replace ships for lag? Everbody would petition stating lag caused the loss...and everybody would expect thier ship back. quite clearly u aint got a clue what this thread is about 0.0 is usually caused by player lag when a blob fight has 1000+ in local the point we are making is i have all graphics and brackets turned down only 18 in local and i have a stable connection and since the last update something is happened i have never had lag and before update incursions where fine so unless u have something relating to high sec incursions then don't bother commenting because the 2 topics are totally different!!!! And you...quite clearly like the one before you...didn't read my post. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!**
marshall26	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:38:00 - [29] i know the diffrence between player caused lag and server lag i have 70+ pilots who can confirm on thursday 18th everyone off them pilots in diffrent systems running incursions had lag spikes of 10secs + now your telling me out off all them pilots its all there connections there end and not server what are the odds on that!
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:51:00 - [30] Originally by: marshall26 i know the diffrence between player caused lag and server lag i have 70+ pilots who can confirm on thursday 18th everyone off them pilots in diffrent systems running incursions had lag spikes of 10secs + now your telling me out off all them pilots its all there connections there end and not server what are the odds on that! Really now? Prove it...have all "70+" pilots log on here and attest to the lag in the system. Maybe then you can get CCP to do something about it. Maybe then you will have the proof you need to make your claim a viable one. But until then it is one persons word that there was a problem. And nobody on these forums or at CCP knows if you have any clue whatsoever if you can tell the difference between PC and server lag. If there are in fact 70+ people that all had the same problem then I am sure there was a problem. Until then it is just hot air and tears over a lost ship. And you could file a petition you know instead of complaining on the boards. You will never get a reimbursement for a ship loss over "lag". But if there was a problem on the CCP side that caused the lag that may or may not have contributed to the loss of your ship then maybe you can get it reimbursed. Until that is proven I assume you had a ** fit for your ship and lost your ship due to your own inadequacies in skills and fitting. Again...you will NEVER get a ship reimbursed due to lag. Just isn't going to happen. Prove that you weren't the only one experiencing this lag issue. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!**

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