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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.03.31 10:53:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Gosakumori Noh
Originally by: Roga Dracor
The French are just jealous we took their idea and ran with it. Does that mean the Gallente harbor a desire to be the Amarr? Is that why the phallic ship design pervades both Empires? OOhh what's that IC rag news outlet, have I got a story for them.. 
That is genius.
Not really. Mainly because your previous assumptions about the ideas behind the races were mostly incorrect. Although Viking humor and beer played a very big part another big participant in the creation of the races is game play. Even at last weekends fanfest it was said multiple times by several people that game play dictates a lot of the storyline or even creates it. The races are the way they are mostly to give all types roleplayers a place to hang their hats or robes.
To get back to the threads subject matter. At a previous fanfest TonyG was asked when we would see the fifth race in game. He responded by asking which race was meant. The questioner said the Jove. I think TonyG was quite deliberate in being vague about what was implied with the fifth race. Could it be possible that we, by solving the puzzle, could actually be responsible for making another, not the Jove, playable race available?
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 11:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pottsey
Constructive Criticsm
The timeline hasn't yet been sourced but is at the bottom of the document, it's primarily based on statements along the lines of:
Originally by: "Present Pieces"
"I ran some tests, and the first object dates back roughly fourteen to fifteen thousand years; the second, this one here, only about slightly less, probably within less than a thousand years of the other."
"So late Yan Jung Era or shortly thereafter."
However I don't see any sources given for your time-line which, could you provide them please so that I can compare it against the one presented here?
What interests me most is that you seem to have a source for dates regarding the Talocan era where all I have is the rather vague pre-Sleeper idea. Do you have anything stating the Talocan did not exist around the time of the Yan Jung? Or that proves they are not the first Jovian empire (who can be proven to have existed at the time of the Yan Jung). I'd be very, very pleased to see any such data as it would cut down on the number of theories considerably.
As to your doubts regarding the Talocans might, I share them, the evidence seen so far does not reflect the power that would be expected of a race who mastered Hypereuclidean Mathematics and Spatial Manipulation. Where is the weaponry, where are the advanced drives, where is any of it. But then the Talocan are a migrant race, with gutted vessels and examples of rustic repairs. They were not at their prime, then the Sleepers had their way with the relics, and most likely the Jovians too.
Nothing specifically says they date back that far I agree, nothing says they don't either. Ideas will be dropped the moment contradictory evidence is provided, half of what is in the document already contradicts the other half. In short I have no strong feelings for any of these ideas and I want them disproved if they can be but please, bring the sauce.
Lastly the Terran section lacks dates as the source material lacks dates, namely the orginal manual and the original opening animation. If you can help here that would be great.
For those interested 400 sources linked and counting, nightmarish work as Google can be very frustrating at times even when you have an actual quote. I've been unable (or rather unwilling) to provide page numbers for every TEA, TBL, and short story reference at this time because this effort has already detracted from the actual fun part of the work considerably. If anyone would like to help once the sourced document is out that would be greatly appreciated.
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 12:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Roga Dracor
Catholic is the broader term for Christians, and more specifically, those who believe the Pope is the actual infallible representative of Christ on earth.
Given the large number of references to other religions I believe the words origin, rather than it's current use, may be more pertinent:
Originally by: "Wikipedia: Catholic"
The word catholic (derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal") comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (kath'holou), meaning "on the whole," "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and όλος meaning "whole". The word in English can mean either "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing" or "of the Roman Catholic faith." as "relating to the historic doctrine and practice of the Western Church."
The name may instead suggest a unified group that is the last refuge of organized faith in a secular cluster. The Unified and Universal Church if you will.
Hope this possibility helps. Your comparison of the Khanid to the Freemasons is interesting and I'd be interested in hearing more on this even if it does seem to bear little relevance to the mystery at hand.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.31 15:37:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Pottsey on 31/03/2011 15:39:02
Edited by: Pottsey on 31/03/2011 15:37:40
The way I see it is we have the timelines for the Yan Jung and Jove. We know both came though the Eve gate and settled in the respective homeworld systems. We know the location for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Jove empires. "The ancestors of the Jovians settled in Utopia while the EVE gate was still open. The Heaven constellation was the home of the First and Second Jovian Empires, both larger and grander than their current Third Empire." http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul01
As far as I am aware there are zero timeframes for the Talocan. Let's assume and for me it's a big assumption the Talocan are the Jove. Then we are in a situation where if we draw a line between the position of the 3 empires we have the Jove very far South, Yan Jung upper middle of the line and Talocan North. What are the chances the Jove have an empire both to the South and north of the Yan Jung Empire with such a massive gap between the empires? To me it seems the Talocan are in completely the wrong position to be a part of any Jove Empire. If we look at the position of the 1 and 2nd Jove Empires then look at where the 3rd empire moved to we find the Talocan are nowhere near any logical migration pattern.
You say the Talocan are strongly hinted to be a part of the 1st Jove Empire, but what hints? I am not aware of any strong links or even weak links really. There are some links between the Jove and Sleepers on the other hand.
I guess what I am trying to say is, I don't see any links between the Talocan, Jove or Yan Jung. What technology we have seen from the Yan Jung is vastly more advance then the Talocan. So even if Talocan in the right timeframe I don't see how they could have been a threat.
My best guess is both the Jove and Yan Jung are colonies that survived the gates shutting. The Talocan are a race them came much later after re-developing.
http://www.eveonline.com/races/jove.asp says "Within the space of only a few centuries they had recovered, and were once again running a hi-tech society." I took that to mean the 1st Jove empire was created and running 200 and 500 years after the disaster of the new Eden gates. The empire lasted 9000 years from the same link. Putting us around 17261 to 17562 for when the 1st empire collapsed and around the year 8261 to 8562 depending on precisely what a few centuries mean for when the 1st empire was created.
http://www.eveonline.com/bitmaps/img/jove1.jpg is a picture of the Jove leader who united the Jove in the 2nd empire more than 3000 years ago. Sorry I don't remember what other source I used but I came to the conclusion and took the meaning more than 3000 years as not greatly more then. People tend to round so more than 3000 most likely means between 3000 to 3999 years ago. If it was 4000 years I would have expected someone to write more than 4000 years. With The Society of Conscious being funded 3000 years ago I figured this was around the same time as the new empire. Assuming I am completely around about the 3000 year number the max timeframe for the 2nd empire could be created is a little over 5000 years ago or it would have existed at the same time as the 1st empire. That should be enough data to draw a rough timeline of when each Jove Empire was created and collapsed.
Source http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1261656/page/3#72 says the 3rd Jove empire was created 500 years ago. Which would have been around 22736
Can I suggest instead of taking out bits that some of us don't agree with you put both points in. One problem you will have is a lot of data is subjective. Perhaps in sections were there is debate you can put something like Kaito Haakkainen and my follow researches think this point. A few other researches like Pottsey or whoever don't agree and think this point instead.
Just trying to dig though my Yan Jung notes and timelines.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.31 16:33:00 -
[35]
"Their ships also surpass the ability of known empire ships and the Eidolon battleship has been shown to be able to withstand massive amounts of firepower"
Personally I think this is Jove propaganda. If you look closely every single Jove encounter recorded has had the Jove perform shockingly bad. The Jove realise how bad there situation is and are trying to project power they no longer have. For example look closely at point [25] to prove Jove ships are superior.
We have a fleet made up of new pod pilots with very low skilled points and using primitive at best T1 weapons and T1 modules. This fleet engaged a Jove fleet with minor loss and complete loss of the Jove ships. This looks even worse if it turns out the Jove fleet was made up of old experience pilots with high skill points and good weapons.
There have been plenty of examples in recent years of small numbers of skilled pod pilot using advanced technology and tactics engage and winning again worse odds. If we took some experienced pod pilots with high skill points T2 or better equipment I would expect them to win against those odds or at the very least last a while. Take any standard wormhole expedition and I bet a small fleet of those pilots would not only withstand as long as those Jove battleships but most likely even win against the same odds.
Another example of so called Jove superior ships is the Amarr war. Yet if you look closely it was a disaster for the Jove. If any pod pilot fleet won in the same way as the Jove the fleet would be a laughing stock for its terrible performance.
Let's list the Jove advantages.
ò The Jove had capital ships with cap weapons and doomsday weapons while the enemy had Battleships as the max size.
ò The Jove had the full enemy battle plans and tactics before the battle. This gave the Jove the element of surprise and time to fit the perfect counter. Not to mention made it so the Jove had a fleet in waiting ready to engage as they know which systems the Amarr would land in.
ò The enemy Fleet Command ship (Which was a battleship) and fleet leader was a traitor working for the Jove. (This is a big one for me the Fleet leader giving orders worked for the Jove!)
ò The Jove had pod piloted ships with all the advantages that gives, the enemy had none pod piloted ships and all the disadvantages that gives.
ò The Jove had so called advanced weapons the enemy had T1 if not much worse then T1 weapons.
It should have been a clear easy win and short battle. Not massively long battle with the Jove losing one-third of the fleet. Surly I am not mistaken in saying any pod pilot fleet today with those advantages above would be a laughing stock for losing 1/3 of their fleet even if they still won?
I would also like to point out with backwards engineering wormhole technology giving T3 and constant advances due to war has shot up our technology massively in recent years. As far as we can tell the Jove have not made such advancements. The best known specs for Jove cruisers and battleships are now worse than our best known tech for our cruisers and battleships. Our T3 cruisers are far superior to the best known Jove cruisers. One could argue out T2 cruisers are better as well. Our T1 battleships are a match fro Jove battleship any day of the week.
I do not buy into the propaganda. Not with the above info and having been in fights with many Jove 1 on 1 and winning Jove. The only reason people think Jove are superior is due the Jove propaganda and PR.
It might be rumoured that Jove have weapons that destroy a whole planet. Wasn't there some news a while back that say a Titan doomsday had destroy a whole planet? Only whole planet meant all life and infrastructure.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.31 21:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kaito Haakkainen
The Unified and Universal Church if you will.
Your comparison of the Khanid to the Freemasons is interesting...
I think the unification was probably of all monotheists and for example the Eve's Khanids were probably inspired by these Kara-Khanid Khanate
Also notice the similarity between
with Minaret dome and Saracen Helmets
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 23:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Pottsey
Let's assume and for me it's a big assumption the Talocan are the Jove.
I'm personally more partial to them being the banished Jovian Elders but I'd rather this was considered a collection of theories that haven't been disproved rather than Kaito's list of opinions and immutable truths.
Originally by: Pottsey
You say the Talocan are strongly hinted to be a part of the 1st Jove Empire, but what hints?
There's a section dedicated to connection regarding the Talocan. The Talocan Stasis deflector and it's use in cloaking devices, Hypereuclidean Navigation and it's relation to cloaking, the Sleepers study of genetic samples and ancestries in w-space (most notable when haplogroups and the Aztec theme are considered) along with the Joves search for 'untainted' DNA, the shared use of trinary, use of fullerenes in Talocan life-support cores, Polaris and it's relation to the Jove, the existence in the database of Elder Datacores but none for Talocan. I'm sure there are more but work continues.
When it comes to advanced Talocan technology recall the Jovian presence in w-space and their hiding Terran artefacts at the EVE Gate. That and the very advanced sounding life-support cores and other k-space Talocan items compared to the rough and ready "spartan" equipment in w-space.
Originally by: Pottsey
What technology we have seen from the Yan Jung is vastly more advance then the Talocan.
There's no mention of the Yan Jung falling at all, they may have retained Terran levels of technology and been quite the challenge for the first Jovian empire. Given when their empire ended and their level of technology I'd say that they had a massive technological edge on the early Jove.
Originally by: Pottsey
The Talocan are a race them came much later after re-developing.
Either theory is valid without evidence to disprove them.
Your time-line sources match mine so I see little disagreement there, Mico Bour was pictured in the Jovian description on the eve website which is repeated in the Evelopedia under Jove.
Originally by: Pottsey
Kaito Haakkainen and my follow researches think this point. A few other researches like Pottsey or whoever don't agree and think this point instead.
If you read through you'll find many of the theories already disagree and many are based on previous observations of other players along with on-going process of adding contributions from the community, the request for which is a major point of this threads creation. They are not my theories, they are only theories, the criteria for inclusion is that they be short, succinct, backed by evidence and not dis-proven by evidence. Please, add to the collection. Though I admit there exists some bias regarding inclusion because a line has to be drawn somewhere to stop the document reaching biblical length.
Originally by: Pottsey
"Their ships also surpass the ability of known empire ships and the Eidolon battleship has been shown to be able to withstand massive amounts of firepower"
Personally I think this is Jove propaganda. If you look closely every single Jove encounter recorded has had the Jove perform shockingly bad.
I'm satisfied with one being able to pass through the singularity at the EVE Gate that other ships cannot even approach without being torn apart in the Empyrean Age. Beyond that we have Admiral Ourias ships taking entire capsuleer fleets worth of firepower to take down. There's also the extreme manoeuvrability noted in Theodicy and the firepower superior to CONCORDs exhibited in Forsaken Ruins.
While empire technologies are advancing the Jovians have access to fullerene technology beyond our understanding and are sole users of complex fullerenes which may constitute an additional techlevel. Then there is the shift to bio-engineered vessels (possibly related to archaea) that likely represents a further techlevel. This is merely what we know of so far.
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 23:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Eve's Khanids were probably inspired by these Kara-Khanid Khanate
Already noted in the document.
I'm pleased to announce that sourcing is complete though for the majority I'd hold off on re-reading until v1.0 is out with all the added data and prettiness as there is almost no new content in v0.3 compared to v0.2.
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Gosakumori Noh
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Posted - 2011.03.31 23:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
Originally by: Gosakumori Noh
Originally by: Roga Dracor
The French are just jealous we took their idea and ran with it. Does that mean the Gallente harbor a desire to be the Amarr? Is that why the phallic ship design pervades both Empires? OOhh what's that IC rag news outlet, have I got a story for them..
That is genius.
Not really. Mainly because your previous assumptions about the ideas behind the races were mostly incorrect.
I'd roll my eyes, but I seem to have misplaced the pupils.
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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.04.01 02:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Scientific_method
Belief can alter observations; the human confirmation bias is a heuristic that leads a person with a particular belief to see things as reinforcing their belief, even if another observer would disagree.
Originally by: TQ
If it wasn't for the discovery of artifacts from an ancient human civilization dating back to when the EVE Gate was still open, the constellation would still be a desolate, dreary place totally ignored by all but a few bandits.
The constellation is Okkelen.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 03:25:00 -
[41]
Kaito, I really like what you've started here. Here is my contribution. Though I think you've already captured much of it, it can be another piece of your source material and you can check the "Public Documents" section at the end to make sure you have all of those as well.
Keep up the fine work.
The Shattered Planets Datacore
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Roga Dracor
Caldari
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.04.01 22:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
At a previous fanfest TonyG was asked when we would see the fifth race in game. He responded by asking which race was meant. The questioner said the Jove. I think TonyG was quite deliberate in being vague about what was implied with the fifth race. Could it be possible that we, by solving the puzzle, could actually be responsible for making another, not the Jove, playable race available?
We already are that fifth race. As Capsuleers, we regularly cross racial boundaries and are building Empires based on purely Capsuleer driven motivations. At least, those of us who do not blindly follow some Inner Sphere politico\factional ideology. Brutor flies proudly beside True Amarr and Gallente freely flies with Deteis. How else might a race, and a new Jovian Empire, be born?
The Jove have been grooming the Empires to produce the fifth race, us. Their motivation and intent may be elusive still, but, their machinations are not. It has been stated in a few places that we are the heir to the Jove. Hopefully, we inherit more than their seemingly ill fated war with the Enhuadanni.
Given the hints I have seen from the devs, a few tweaks to the character creator could easily handle genetic modification and cybernetic enhancements. So, some Gallente podder could be the progenitor of the next round of Modifiers, and a more open RP experience for all. Maybe play an infomorph "face dancer" like the Broker..?
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Roga Dracor
Caldari
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.04.01 22:49:00 -
[43]
As to the Talocan being the banished Jovian Elders, my though was more that perhaps the Talocan were the refugees that survived a confrontation with the Jovian Elders. I would hold it more reasonable that the Yan Jung represented the Jovian Elders.
They are arguably the most advanced of the old races. Seems if any of the ancients were Elders it was the Yan Jung.
There is a site in w-space, a Mag site I believe, that has an abandoned Talocan BS Hull. It sits by a damaged Sleeper Enclave and a Preservation Conduit. The feeling I get from this site, is that the Talocan probably were the ones uploading themselves.
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Roga Dracor
Caldari
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.04.02 01:55:00 -
[44]
And further, if the 1st Jovian Empire was the grand affair it is implied to be, far exceeding the Amarr Empire at it pinnacle, would it not control a fair amount of the cluster to begin with? It reigned for ninety centuries.
How does anyone concieve that it did not reign over parts, if not all, of current Empire Space? Or did it just ignore the struggling populations below it in abject disinterest? The most likely scenario is that ALL the ancients are Jovian factions. And we are the survivors of a Jovian inspired holocaust.
Why all the guilt and haunted behavior from the Jove we have seen introduced. Because they have time and again entered into the sacrosanct realm of god, and been rebuffed and horrified at the results. And what is the sacrosanct realm of god?
Creation.. How many Frankenstein's monsters have they released?
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Gosakumori Noh
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Posted - 2011.04.02 03:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Roga Dracor
And further, if the 1st Jovian Empire was the grand affair it is implied to be, far exceeding the Amarr Empire at it pinnacle, would it not control a fair amount of the cluster to begin with? It reigned for ninety centuries.
The Ring of Exploding Death Stars, which Arvash cleverly tried to pin on Her Make Glorious Grand Majesty (sneaky bastard) strikes me as more of the defensive ring of an ancient border. Insofar as Amarr Prime was among the first systems settled by men coming through the EVE Gate, it naturally follows that an ancient border would encompass, rather than bisect, Amarr territory.
However, you only go to the expense of building a defensive perimeter if you believe the risk of an external threat outweighs the cost of building the barrier.
So if it was an ancient border created by men after having come through the EVE Gate, what were they guarding against?
One might make a historical reference to the Great Wall of China, built to guard against the wandering hordes - which in EVE terms could suggest a clash between the Yan Jung (inside the border) and the Talocan (wandering hordes). The Sleepers were enslaved by the Talocan and rebelled, leading to the implosion of both. Unclear what happens to Yan Jung inside their Wall (note: Wall didn't work so well for China).
The Takmahl are the first contemporary empire dwellers to start looking into all of this, parallel Knights Templar digging for Temple of Solomon.
The Jove... bah. Over-exposed.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.02 14:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Also notice the similarity between
with Minaret dome and Saracen Helmets
Some other iconographic similarities.
Kador family icon has a similar appearance to a Menorah/Hanukkah (Jewish candle holder)
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.02 20:42:00 -
[47]
Regarding the moral reforms and "Emperor as the supreme and infallible voice of God" this seems to have parallels with the first Vatican council which raised Papal infallibility to dogma.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.04.05 06:23:00 -
[48]
Anyone else not able to download the pdf for the past week? Everyone's talking about it, I'm dying to download it, but I get a 5.5KB corrupted pdf.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 13:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cave Lord
Anyone else not able to download the pdf for the past week? Everyone's talking about it, I'm dying to download it, but I get a 5.5KB corrupted pdf.
I had the same problem when I used right click -> Save As.
I found if you download it into a tab then save it works.
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.04.05 16:19:00 -
[50]
New version up, all pretty.
Now that things are winding down I'd like to know if there's any interest in including my own theory on all this, perhaps tagged on at the end along with a disclaimer. It's based primarily upon the feel of things gathered over the time this has been worked on though, there is corroborating evidence. The primary benefit would probably be found in efforts to disprove the theory more than anything else.
I'm split on this as if there's one thing I'm tired of reading it's the huge amount of baseless conjecture posted that often yields little progress towards any kind of consensus.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.04.05 17:38:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kaito Haakkainen
Now that things are winding down I'd like to know if there's any interest in including my own theory on all this, perhaps tagged on at the end along with a disclaimer. It's based primarily upon the feel of things gathered over the time this has been worked on though, there is corroborating evidence. The primary benefit would probably be found in efforts to disprove the theory more than anything else.
It's your magnum opus mate; if you want to share your theories then go right ahead. Given the depth of knowledge and references in your work, it'd certainly be a more useful contribution than most.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 22:45:00 -
[52]
Something I've been musing over.
The R.A.M.- Hybrid Technology is used to reverse engineer T3 parts.
When recycled it produces Angel parts
- Construction Alloy
- Data Processor
- Electric Conduit
- Energy Cells
- Mechanic Parts
There is one slight anomaly I noticed was Angel Spatial Analyzer, that to me seems more associated
with the Talocan.
Angel are normally associated with Minmatar space.
The COSMOS in Minmatar space reveals sleeper artefacts.
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.04.05 22:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Something I've been musing over.
Excellent find, will add it to the next update.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.04.06 02:34:00 -
[54]
Aha! Link does not work for me in FireFox 4.0. Every method ends with a corrupted pdf file (5-6KB). I used Internet Explorer and it downloaded the file just fine.
..hope this helps anyone else having trouble with the link.
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2011.04.06 09:09:00 -
[55]
Apologies for the trouble people are having with the link. Using Firefox 4.0 myself with the file uploaded to public and it works directly for me each time. Suggestions welcome.
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Mal Darkrunner
Caldari
Zero Tau Research Institute
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Posted - 2011.04.10 15:28:00 -
[56]
Great resource! Thanks for taking the time to put this together
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Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:22:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Roga Dracor on 13/04/2011 23:22:21
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Angel are normally associated with Minmatar space.
The COSMOS in Minmatar space reveals sleeper artefacts.
There is one slight anomaly I noticed was Angel Spatial Analyzer, that to me seems more associated with the Talocan, than the sleepers.
Another thing it points to is Jove. The Angels have shown themselves to be very adept at reverse engineering Jovian tech. So, it points to another link between the Jovians and the Sleepers.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 16:48:00 -
[58]
"City of God" in Eve, "a place worthy of divine residence. The city was to be constructed in space, not bound to any earthly place". "The emperor set out to uproot and eradicate many of the most sacred traditions in Amarr, replacing them with his own ideas on divinity."
"De civitate dei" Latin for City of God, also New Jerusalem, "the dwelling place of the Saints".
City of God also a book written Saint Augustine of Hippo which fuelled the reformation.
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.21 10:32:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tsual on 21/04/2011 10:33:39
Just some hypothesis that cropped up somewhen related to a possible minmatar talocan relationship but is mostly off-current-discussion:
The colony ships that landed on matar were talocan.
The tlalocan were a pre collaps ferrying service.
Just wether on matar there were only colonists of various cultural heritage or there was also a penual human workforce or it started as a penual colony isn't entirely clear to me.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.21 11:43:00 -
[60]
The Serpents Coil talks talks about:
Quote:
The location of the Coil is of great interest to astrophysicists. The military base is located close to some very peculiar rock formations floating in space. Rumors abound about their origin, equally divided between natural explanations for the phenomenon and the more intriguing ones - that the huge rock boulders are the result of some strange experiment now long forgotten.
Lead me to Snake coils (geology) formed during glacial retreat and might be described as 'floating in space'. First described by French Geologist Jean-Jerome Peytavi in 1973 during an expedition to northern Greenland these are similar to Tunnel Valleys.
I also found a book titled "serpent's coil" which give a 'true account' of the how the Leicester was salvaged after being battered by three hurricanes in the Western Atlantic during 1948, a very bad season which resulted in the loss of ships and lives. While interesting, I don't think it's relevant but is included for elimination purposes.
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