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Karl Hobb Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium 512	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:24:00 - [91] - Quote Gogela wrote: DarthNefarius wrote: Yep posting in yet another force Hi Sec pilots into NULL SEC thread No. You stay in highsec. I don't care how safe you are there. I don't care where you go at all quite frankly. I just think there should be greater rewards as the risks go up. That's it. Quoting because this is what constitutes "forcing high-sec pilots out of high-sec" means to so many idiots. Nothing Found
Tesal 41	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:24:00 - [92] - Quote I bet the OP would love to goose step all over those newbs. That is what this thread is about. Some NPC corps are a lot of fun. Maybe that's why people stay in them. It is a game, people should have fun playing. This idea that EvE should be a cold ruthless world is already out there, it doesn't need to be taken to an extreme like the OP wants.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1026	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:38:00 - [93] - Quote Tesal wrote: I bet the OP would love to goose step all over those newbs. That is what this thread is about. A highly impractical stomping technique. I rather interrupt the miner botters, the tengu mission botters, or 25 account miners now in macks or skiffs which only have ganking to worry about. There is no interruption. if ganking occurs. In 5 minutes, they are out there in another mack. There is too much wealth in high due to zero long term threats in NPC corps. (Long term being everything longer than 15 minutes) Takes longer to become space rich in high, yet there is little to no sink. They just sit there. bloating the market.
Karl Hobb Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium 513	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:40:00 - [94] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: They just sit there. bloating the market. Dirty stinkin' carebears. Nothing Found
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1026	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:49:00 - [95] - Quote Karl Hobb wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: They just sit there. bloating the market. Dirty stinkin' carebears. Is there a word beyond that? This isn't just living in highsec and passive. Yet living on a pedestal on top of highsec.
Thrym Garsk Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.08.30 01:40:00 - [96] - Quote What is the deal with "veterans" in this game? We can hop on here and "learn the ropes" by reading hundreds and hundreds of fanboi-ish posts about how EVE is a "play it your way, whatever way that happens to be" type game. On the same page, we get garbage like this that wants to stamp that very line of thinking right straight out. Here's the deal. I don't want to be in a player run corporation right now. I don't want particularly want to get ganked in high sec(which is very much possible if you screw up, even as is). I don't want to get wardeced, and frankly I don't want to contribute to the play experience in any meaningful way until I am good and ready to do so. I don't want to be penalized for this opinion, and I want to "play it my way, whatver way that happens to be". The way the game is right now, that can mostly happen. Beyond the whole "freedom of choice" argument, the logic that NPC corporations kill playability because alot of people playing in them deserves some thoughts all on its own. If alot of people are playing in them, it's because they want it that way. Fact is, I see maybe a half dozen gankers wandering around the Rens area at a given time, but I see hundreds of mission runners and miners. Why would be cause any kind of problem for these hundreds to placate the half dozen? Want a real, in-game way to "make" people more interested in player corporations? Make gates more friendly(yeah, you can usually get through, but the times you can't are quite the turn off for an industrial or miner). Yes, yes, I know this is a "carebear" idea that gets tossed around alot, but in conjunction with the next, I think it would create the more target rich PvP environment the OP alludes to(that IS the real reason to drive folks out of the safety of NPC corp, right?). Change manufacturing recipes to use more low/null sec materials, thus forcing miners into those areas. The miners will need escorts, the bounty hunters will find pirates hunting them, and so on and so forth. All of a sudden the gates become accessible so the industrialists can get to their resources in relative safety, but once through become part of the PvP infrastructure as a whole which obviously functions better in a player corp with helpful friends.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1027	Posted - 2012.08.30 01:53:00 - [97] - Quote Thrym Garsk wrote: Here's the deal. I don't want to be in a player run corporation right now. I don't want particularly want to get ganked in high sec(which is very much possible if you screw up, even as is). I don't want to get wardeced, and frankly I don't want to contribute to the play experience in any meaningful way until I am good and ready to do so. That's fine. Great even. Its those though that use this cover to in fact "contribute" to the play experience without other players being allowed to "contribute" to their play experience in kind return. I don't want to kick anyone out of highsec. You still have concord protection. ... When not wardeced. And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right?
Antisocial Malkavian Antisocial Malkavians 216	Posted - 2012.08.30 02:05:00 - [98] - Quote Yeah GL with that, obviously CCP isnt looking to kill miners anymore but get them to KEEP paying their subs/buying PLEXes. Looks like they finally figured out miners' money spends like everyone else's http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears you will be harvested
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 248	Posted - 2012.08.30 02:14:00 - [99] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Nyancat Audeles wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: As if I wasn't clear enough: DOWN WITH NPC CORPS. Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game. It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff. Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp. /end thread Kneejerk much? NPC corps purpose is to learn the basics of the game. Then release you like a haw.... ...a dove into the wild. I am not railing for their ultimate destruction. I ask for them to serve their purpose and then are dismissed. A month. A whole month should be plenty of time to get the basics of the game and find a few people. Specially with revamped new player experience. For someone with a really crappy idea, you're pretty clueless. Drop out of your crappy two man corp and notice were you go. The NPC corps aren't for new players to learn, it's for people who don't want to be in a player run corp. You have tons of targets you can wardeck, not that I think your 2 man corp has the ability to wardeck many people, and something tells me it isn't, but they're there. You're idea would kill EVE, period.
Antisocial Malkavian Antisocial Malkavians 216	Posted - 2012.08.30 02:27:00 - [100] - Quote Hey Roll; wardec Goons. There plenty of targets for you http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears you will be harvested
Jonah Gravenstein 912	Posted - 2012.08.30 02:45:00 - [101] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef, show us on this doll where the bad NPC corp touched you War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. CCP can't patch stupidity.
Matriarch Prime Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2012.08.30 02:53:00 - [102] - Quote This is nice. You act like all your problems would be solved if only everyone would play like you. News flash: different players play differently. I'll give you a moment to catch you breath. I know its a bit of shock. I play for my own enjoyment, not for yours. And I'll continue to do so long as I wish. I've been in my corp longer than your character has even existed. Run along child. You have no idea the value older players in npc corps have to the new player experience.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 281	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:18:00 - [103] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right? I never really found creating alts to be casual friendly as creating and training alts puts a hold on any skill development on your main, and casuals are less likely to have multiple accounts to make that a non-issue.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 1751	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:33:00 - [104] - Quote Matriarch Prime wrote: This is nice. You act like all your problems would be solved if only everyone would play like you. It's not even that. It's that they want people to play for them. 99% of these threads are started by people who have run out of easy targets and can't afford the ship loss/ sec hit of ganking. So instead of deccing a corp with members that can fight back, they come in here demanding that CCP give them fish in a barrel. They can pretty it up any way they like, but it boils down to a bunch of pathetic gankers that are too risk averse to even gank something. So they post in here, wallowing in their own tears because the rest of the players in the game won't park themselves in front of them in untanked T1 ships with a 'kick me' sign painted on them. Mr Epeen There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1028	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:33:00 - [105] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right? I never really found creating alts to be casual friendly as creating and training alts puts a hold on any skill development on your main, and casuals are less likely to have multiple accounts to make that a non-issue. Yet it doesn't take much SP to max out mining, or even mission running. What would these casuals start training? Carriers? noo... Science and industry? Well a lot of that requires POS stuff as station slots of filled for weeks and requires a real corp. In other news. A lot of angry people with safe NPC alts.
Shizuken Venerated Stars 89	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:35:00 - [106] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties. Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1028	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:37:00 - [107] - Quote Shizuken wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties. Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it. easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 281	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:43:00 - [108] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Yet it doesn't take much SP to max out mining, If you train strait for the ships, sure why not. Supports to make the most of any ship take a while though Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: or even mission running. This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character. Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: What would these casuals start training? Carriers? noo... Science and industry? Well a lot of that requires POS stuff as station slots of filled for weeks and requires a real corp. If they want to do things that NPC corps don't allow, they move out. Seems a simple solution to me.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1028	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:50:00 - [109] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character. Remember, NPC casual. The vast majority arn't training for a competent subcap PvP character. They get into an Exhumer, t3, or a faction BS. and they go grind. The argument was training up an alternate character was too intensive for a casual. You have them learning every subcap and support skill beyond what they do day after day.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 282	Posted - 2012.08.30 03:57:00 - [110] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character. Remember, NPC casual. The vast majority arn't training for a competent subcap PvP character. They get into an Exhumer, t3, or a faction BS. and they go grind. The argument was training up an alternate character was too intensive for a casual. You have them learning every subcap and support skill beyond what they do day after day. NPC casual doesn't mean get 1 hull and just park your pod there permanently. A lot of people like trying different ships and weapons. Crosstraining into T2 ships and weapons in many cases isn't a short train. Getting an alt to that point to get around wardecs takes even longer as they start from scratch. And all things considered, why would they ever stop training? It's not intensive, it's a key part of the game.
Antisocial Malkavian Antisocial Malkavians 218	Posted - 2012.08.30 04:23:00 - [111] - Quote Dude; seriously; wardec goons. Im sure theyd accomodate you for targets. Or EVE-UNI http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears you will be harvested
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1028	Posted - 2012.08.30 04:49:00 - [112] - Quote Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Dude; seriously; wardec goons. Im sure theyd accomodate you for targets. Or EVE-UNI Id rather target their npc corp alts producing thousands of ice an hour. Though that's not really specific to any one alliance.
Abel Merkabah The Executioners Capital Punishment. 114	Posted - 2012.08.30 06:03:00 - [113] - Quote Sorlac wrote: Forums ate my response and don't feel like retyping the whole thing again, so in summary what it boils down to is: I'm not wholly against the idea of doing away with NPC corps, but I do feel if your going to force miners to grab their guns then they should be able to force you to grab some mining lasers. In all actuality NPC corps are at best only a fraction of a bit safer than being in a 1 man corp; unless you are just running around mouthing off to everyone. Also what is wrong with people wanting to enjoy the game their way? Isn't that the whole point behind this thread (as ones like it) is so that people like the OP can have soft targets for them to shoot at; which is what they seem to enjoy? Many of us already have to do some form of PvE. Ships are not free, and in case you didn't know, PvP players tend to lose ships. So, PvP players already do both sides. I think that is the problem; it's not balanced, PvE only players affect PvP players through the market, but PvP players are not able to use their skills to effect the PvE players through combat. That is the problem the OP is arguing. 2 notes: I couldn't care about NPC corp and who stays in them; once you leave highsec, wardecs lose a lot of importance. 2. I use PvE and PvP in relation to combat in the above post; overall, I do not believe there is any true PvE in this game. "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacuuming systems."
Virgil Travis Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated 685	Posted - 2012.08.30 08:43:00 - [114] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Virgil Travis wrote: Sorlac wrote: Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out. It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine. Your pvp is already forced on others in the form of mineral and ship prices. Just shows how many of the utterly clueless dwell withint the npc corps. If you'd actually bothered to take any of the discussion in you might have read that. So you're mad that your ships prices are cheap? Earlier someone said something about needing to hold miners "accountable" and I can't figure out what they need to be held accountable for. The only thing I can figure is that you're all mad that mineral prices are low so your ships and modules are cheap. Apparently you want your pvp ships to cost more? Where did you read that in my post, try reading it again because you're wrong. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Virgil Travis Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated 685	Posted - 2012.08.30 08:48:00 - [115] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Virgil Travis wrote: They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way' Not that it really matters to me personally since I do play the game my way, but I am seeing what I just quoted being parroted by both sides of this stupid argument that is the EVE-O version of the 'Song that Never Ends''. How about less telling others how they should play and more doing what you want within the constraints set out by CCP. Sandbox doesn't mean no rules, it means think for yourself. Mr Epeen I can think for myself, and I have been for the past 3+ years since I started playing. I'm not telling others how to play, what I'm referring to are those that refuse to accept that things can happen in the game that aren't nice and fluffy. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.08.30 09:19:00 - [116] - Quote I don't think there are ways to make rules that will separate players who don't really affect anything other than just CCP's wallet and those who are sitting with that bunch, abusing any sort of existing rules all the way (crude example: lonely carebears and large NPC-affilated fleets mining for medium-sized corp). In the end, anything that is meant to help new or ineffectual player can be abused by anyone else most of the time, and that is exactly why we can't have nice things.
Ensign X 136	Posted - 2012.08.30 17:53:00 - [117] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Shizuken wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties. Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it. easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station. I hate to break it to you, but even a max-skilled Trade alt is still paying tax on EVERYTHING they sell.
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 145	Posted - 2012.08.30 18:16:00 - [118] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Stupid Stuff Why is there so many losers posting here lately???
MIrple BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team 82	Posted - 2012.08.30 18:37:00 - [119] - Quote Ok why when someone posts any idea about changing Hi sec or NPC the what about the noobie shield is always raised in defense? What the OP is saying is after a set time you are moved from your starter corp into a corp that can have action taken against you. Would it be better if you changed it to skill points so say after 5 million you would be moved. Well that wouldn't work because you would have people getting 4999999 sp and stopping because that way the could have the shelter of CCP for ever. We are not trying to make you play the game our way. What we are trying to tell you is you effect our game with how you are playing and the only way we can effect your game is by ganking you. Were you not the ones that were crying about ganking. There has to be some place we can meet in the middle on this as it will benefit the game in the long run and probably increase new player retention as they would experience more of the game. I am 100% against picking on the newbie. But players that are 3 years and still living in there NPC corps basement screaming for to CCP to make them meatloaf are sad.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1033	Posted - 2012.08.30 19:37:00 - [120] - Quote Ensign X wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Shizuken wrote: Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties. Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it. easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station. I hate to break it to you, but even a max-skilled Trade alt is still paying tax on EVERYTHING they sell. Thought there was additional npc corp taxes on market trades. Well then, since it only effects bounties and mission payouts. multiple reasons to ever leave the safety of a NPC corp as a miner now isn't there no matter how long you have been playing.

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