DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.

Did you come up with this idea all on your own? Your momma must be so proud of you for wearing your big boy pants!

Here, have a cookie.

You know, I hate having all of these old threads up on the front page so I'm just going to post in here my hatred of them so that I can not bump them up anymore than they already are.

So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Oh and increase mission runner taxes more in NPC corps.

DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.

[Not enough hate in the right direction.

Allow wardecs against NPC corps.

Then, when the NPC navy fleet shows up with its caps and supers it'll be just like an incursion for the war-deccers corp alone. And also a bit like faction war where the war-deccers corp is denied access to stations etc until they can take them by force. etc. Sounds like fun!

Alternatively, and a little more simply. Auto movement from a civilian NPC corp to NPC navy in one month. A garbage chute into FW in a way.

LOL, kind of like getting drafted?

Conscription in Eve, could work!

I'm liking the ideas, NPC corps are part of the reason so much ganking has been going on in high sec, it's the only recourse some people had since the NPC corps can't be war decced. I think the idea of preventing all those mining alts from sitting in NPC corps has some merit, if they want to affect the economy they should have to deal with the possibility of others affecting their livelihood.

That would sure shake things up.

... to force you into a player corp.

That's all it is. And the apathy of a few individuals shows just how often it has come up before. Yet this most glaring flaw has yet been addressed. Only a few symptoms but not the disease.
It's not miners, its not gankers, its not the act of living in highsec. It stems from NPC corps. The revamp of the wardeck system is pointless still. Once npc is the proper rookie stepping stone as they always should have been. The new mechanics actually become used.

I guess the concept of 'sandbox' only counts for some and not others.

How about when your sec status goes to neg 5 you are forced to stay out of high sec? How about if you are global you are forced not to be able to warp and your weapons don't work?

I thought so.

Mr Epeen

If your sec status is -5, all players can attack you anyway. That is sandbox. That is being accountable for your actions which led you to -5

Come up with better.

So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Oh and increase mission runner taxes more in NPC corps.
As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions. Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding.
This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.

That's not the same as neg 5 being forced to rat up their status to be allowed in high sec. Even neg ten has a free pass in high sec. So the gankers get a free pass but you want to take what little shelter is left for the casual player away?

No that it would ever happen, but it sure would be Interesting to see how fast the server population drops if it ever did.

Mr Epeen

Yes, those 500 guys on average, at any given time in each of the NPC corps, are the reason for all of EVE's problems and why people gank.
Dear OP,
How many high sec corps is your little 2 man corp currently at war with? Because when I'm flying around high sec on my alt, I see a shitton of people in player made corps also flying around high sec.
And explain to me, why exactly, that guy in a barge, who is a member of a player corp got suicide ganked while he was mining again? Oh, because the guy who ganked him was in an NPC corp, and the other guy didn't want to pay the wardec fee or put himself in a possition of being attackable while flying around high sec.

And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual?
The "casual" does not need NPC protection. My alts are in personal corps and have never been harassed. If I am, my god, I have mercenaries. What else would you use your isk for? If you are targeted, you are not as casual as you let on. Or you said something stupid. Which should lead to consequence.

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.

Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game.

It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff.

Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp.

/end thread

Did you come up with this idea all on your own? Your momma must be so proud of you for wearing your big boy pants!

Here, have a cookie.

And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual?

As to how you expect it will change anything...vOv

Oh. I see now. You want to force station traders, who's entire life outside a station was moving to a trade hub, into being able to be war decced.

Yup. That'll sure change the entire high sec dynamic. You'll have 'em running scared.

But, whatever... If it makes you feel any better, I agree. I'm no stranger to being at war and not even realizing it, let alone having it affect me in any way whatsoever. As to how you expect it will change anything...vOv

Mr Epeen

In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people.

In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people.

You vets are hilarious. Most of the problems of this game are actually vet created. You created the mess that is nullsec. You created the mess that is low sec via gate camps and such. YOU have created the problem with highsec by relentlessly exploiting the ruleset to kill newbies. You scream and cry about newbies staying in the NPC corps and then when one tries to join your corp you scream "SPY ALT!!!" or "NOT ENOUGH SP!!!" all day at them. So newbies have the choice of staying in the NPC corp or taking a risk on a small corp that is very likely a ****** corp. On top of that when you don't scream about spies or SP issues you take the opportunity to scam the newbie by taking everything they have or by killing them. Then you come to the forums acting all surprised when newbies stay in the NPC corp.

In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people.

If you want this game to change you might want to take a moment and look at your own actions and how they might be contributing to the problems at hand. You're not hardcore and this game isn't hardcore either. I've seen hundreds of similar games over my decades of game playing. There's nothing special about your ability to play this game. Get over yourself and you might start to see the true problems here. Or you can continue your forum circle jerk about how eve is "cold and hard" and how special you are as people to play such a "cold and hard" game. If you want true "cold and hard" you should turn off the computer and go outside.

I've said my peace as a newbie to this game.

I lol'd.

It was especially funny because my character was only a couple days old and I was still trying to figure out how to even fly.

Considering just how many people are in some of those NPC corps I'm not so sure if wardeccing them is such a good idea. Would you really want to try to take on the Center for Advanced Studies? I certainly wouldn't want to. They're not all newbies, you know - some (not many, but some) of the oldest, more experienced characters in the game are still in those NPC corps as well. They might just take that sort of thing personally, too. Make an example out of people, if you catch my drift.

This could easily become one of those wishes that comes back to bite people in their behinds, and while the flow of tears suddenly in the other direction might be amusing at first, in the end it would only result in even more whining to change it back - and if I know those lovely sadists at CCP, that's right about when they start laughing maniacally for about five minutes straight, grin, say "NO!" and resume laughing again.

This could easily become one of those wishes that comes back to bite people in their behinds, and while the flow of tears suddenly in the other direction might be amusing at first, in the end it would only result in even more whining to change it back - and if I know those lovely sadists at CCP, that's right about when they start laughing maniacally for about five minutes straight, grin, say "NO!" and resume laughing again.

Considering just how many people are in some of those NPC corps I'm not so sure if wardeccing them is such a good idea. Would you really want to try to take on the Center for Advanced Studies? I certainly wouldn't want to. They're not all newbies, you know - some (not many, but some) of the oldest, more experienced characters in the game are still in those NPC corps as well. They might just take that sort of thing personally, too. Make an example out of people, if you catch my drift.

This could easily become one of those wishes that comes back to bite people in their behinds, and while the flow of tears suddenly in the other direction might be amusing at first, in the end it would only result in even more whining to change it back - and if I know those lovely sadists at CCP, that's right about when they start laughing maniacally for about five minutes straight, grin, say "NO!" and resume laughing again.

Yeah, sorry, the magic is gone. Try less hard, maybe?

One more "Those guys should be forced to play the game like I do" thread.

-1

Thanks for your valued input, very insightful.

He's got a point though......

Miners permit? Really? a Newcomer gets into the game in his nice new rookie ship with a civilian miner and and pretty much zero isk and now he's gotta pay a miner's permit? sure, it'll give him the hint that mining isn't a widely acceptable career, but shouldn't that be his decision?

So... another thread about how l33t PvPers are angry about NPC corps and miners?. Dude, you can still suicide gank them if you hate them so much. Maybe not with 2m destroyer, but Talos will do that (even well tanked mack - i tested it few days ago).

Im not a miner, but i was always amazed how those "elite hisec PvP warriors" are so angry that they cannot wardec miners. Maybe you should try Lowsec or Nullsec?

If you want true "cold and hard" you should turn off the computer and go outside.

Yawn, again .....

Leave hi sec alone and you cannot force ppl to become targets if they don't want to be..

Tal

Oh crap, i wish there were other things to shoot at than miners ...

Wanna bet

In the case of forcing ppl out of he sec into lo yes, If your talking about ganking in hi sec, no

Tal

formulating ideas on how to imporve the game.

tbh I'm having a tough time formulating ideas on how to imporve any game, much less EVE.

Hate, on the other hand, well, everyone should hate carebears. ******* carebears...

Carebears with teeth I'm fine with, it's the ones with no spine that think they should be left alone, they're the annoying ones.

A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Stop mining? What about their ISK/hr.? You, sir, are a loon.

Jesus, don't you guys ever get tired of reading your own crap?

Seriously, get a life already.

You know what I'd really like to see happen?

A Miner Strike.

A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Now THAT would be money well spent to see.

It'd still be nice to see their culminated seething anger and rage form it's own artificer of an intergalactic sized **** YOU.

Won't happen, we'll just mine the belts you aren't and either keep the minerals or sell them, probably for more than most miners since you're all on 'strike'.

By the way, I'd love to see you get even half of the miners in high sec to abide by any embargo. Good luck with that.

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.

If a player is more than 30 days old and leaves a corp what happens to them in this scenario? They end up in FW? What race? What is they don't have the standings to be in the FW? What if they are a free trader and end up in an apposing races FW area? What are the intended plans to address corp hopping? What would you do to stop the hundreds of new corps made each day to avoid wardecs?

Sounds like a lot of coding work for very little outcome.

So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions.
Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding. This can just be a small part of a whole slew of changes. Bring in clone changes and change other risk adverse breeding mechanics and people may actually get involved with the game at large and stop being scenery "look but don't touch" while they screw with the game at large with idiotic pretenses like "I mined it, its free".
And of course the bots.
edit: This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.

It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

You seem to think being held accountable equals PVP. Even though it only makes you a valid target, should someone want to even bother attacking you.

A better strip mine weapon is to force overheat the targets modules so you either A: make them kill you faster. Or B: burn out all their mods out so they cant do jack.

How exactly would you "hold someone accountable" in a way that doesn't involve PvP?

Also if someone has irked you enough that you feel they should be held "accountable" then you can easily do so while they are still in an NPC corp; as long as your willing to put a little work into your revenge that is.

Also my post wasn't about turning mining lasers into weapons, but about forcing PvPers into mining similar to how PvPers want to force miners to PvP (yes I know not all PvPers want soft targets, but then this change would not affect them anyways).

Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out.


It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

Previous NPC corp miners don't have to grab their guns when wardecked.
You can avoid them.
You can pay them off in some agreement.
You have a free ally to bring into war to do the shooting for you. (Plenty would love a free war, though they may not be as helpful as a payed group.)
You have more slots for more allies.

What else are you going to spend your NPC corp "earned" ore on? Effect my ship prices more?

Your pvp is already forced on others in the form of mineral and ship prices. Just shows how many of the utterly clueless dwell withint the npc corps. If you'd actually bothered to take any of the discussion in you might have read that.

They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'

They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'

No wonder people gank NPC miners.

They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'

No wonder people gank NPC miners.

I don't know... the problem with highsec in my opinion is the draw to highsec. If your endgame is riches and power, you can achieve that with greater efficiency and virtually no risk in highsec. There no motive outside of epeen to leave highsec. I hear the alliance heads on the CSM saying that nullsec wars are about epeen.... well yah for them maybe. They forgot how their members live and what made the little guys come to nullsec though. If there are not greater rewards for low and nullsec for the individual, those areas of space will be inherently broken. The fix is obvious to anyone and has been posted many times before... but it's a big undertaking. I'm not sure CCP understands this yet, despite the great Incarna revolution. Listening and understanding are two different things... people need to understand that as long as the riches of EvE are in highsec, the game is broken. Str8 up yo.

One more "Those guys should be forced to play the game like I do" thread.

-1

Yep posting in yet another force Hi Sec pilots into NULL SEC thread

No. You stay in highsec. I don't care how safe you are there. I don't care where you go at all quite frankly. I just think there should be greater rewards as the risks go up. That's it.

I bet the OP would love to goose step all over those newbs. That is what this thread is about.

They just sit there. bloating the market.

Dirty stinkin' carebears.

Here's the deal. I don't want to be in a player run corporation right now. I don't want particularly want to get ganked in high sec(which is very much possible if you screw up, even as is). I don't want to get wardeced, and frankly I don't want to contribute to the play experience in any meaningful way until I am good and ready to do so.

Kneejerk much?
NPC corps purpose is to learn the basics of the game. Then release you like a haw.... ...a dove into the wild. I am not railing for their ultimate destruction. I ask for them to serve their purpose and then are dismissed. A month. A whole month should be plenty of time to get the basics of the game and find a few people. Specially with revamped new player experience.

And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right?

This is nice. You act like all your problems would be solved if only everyone would play like you.

I never really found creating alts to be casual friendly as creating and training alts puts a hold on any skill development on your main, and casuals are less likely to have multiple accounts to make that a non-issue.

Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

Wrong. It IS taxed, when you sell it.

Yet it doesn't take much SP to max out mining,

or even mission running.

What would these casuals start training? Carriers? noo... Science and industry? Well a lot of that requires POS stuff as station slots of filled for weeks and requires a real corp.

This takes the prior statement about supports and magnify it exponentially. Add things like training different ships for different factions and you can easily find yourself in different races, weapons, ship classes and tank types. All in all leaving you very little to go to get a competent (SP-wise) subcap PvP character.

Remember, NPC casual. The vast majority arn't training for a competent subcap PvP character. They get into an Exhumer, t3, or a faction BS. and they go grind. The argument was training up an alternate character was too intensive for a casual. You have them learning every subcap and support skill beyond what they do day after day.

Dude; seriously; wardec goons. Im sure theyd accomodate you for targets. Or EVE-UNI

Forums ate my response and don't feel like retyping the whole thing again, so in summary what it boils down to is:

I'm not wholly against the idea of doing away with NPC corps, but I do feel if your going to force miners to grab their guns then they should be able to force you to grab some mining lasers.

In all actuality NPC corps are at best only a fraction of a bit safer than being in a 1 man corp; unless you are just running around mouthing off to everyone.

Also what is wrong with people wanting to enjoy the game their way? Isn't that the whole point behind this thread (as ones like it) is so that people like the OP can have soft targets for them to shoot at; which is what they seem to enjoy?

So you're mad that your ships prices are cheap?

Earlier someone said something about needing to hold miners "accountable" and I can't figure out what they need to be held accountable for. The only thing I can figure is that you're all mad that mineral prices are low so your ships and modules are cheap. Apparently you want your pvp ships to cost more?

Not that it really matters to me personally since I do play the game my way, but I am seeing what I just quoted being parroted by both sides of this stupid argument that is the EVE-O version of the 'Song that Never Ends''.

How about less telling others how they should play and more doing what you want within the constraints set out by CCP. Sandbox doesn't mean no rules, it means think for yourself.

Mr Epeen

easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.

Stupid Stuff

I hate to break it to you, but even a max-skilled Trade alt is still paying tax on EVERYTHING they sell.

So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions.
Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding. This can just be a small part of a whole slew of changes. Bring in clone changes and change other risk adverse breeding mechanics and people may actually get involved with the game at large and stop being scenery "look but don't touch" while they screw with the game at large with idiotic pretenses like "I mined it, its free".
And of course the bots.
edit: This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.

That's all it is. And the apathy of a few individuals shows just how often it has come up before. Yet this most glaring flaw has yet been addressed. Only a few symptoms but not the disease.
It's not miners, its not gankers, its not the act of living in highsec. It stems from NPC corps. The revamp of the wardeck system is pointless still. Once npc is the proper rookie stepping stone as they always should have been. The new mechanics actually become used.

Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe

Hey youngen. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an alt. How much would you say you know about the game after two months now? After doing tutorials and all that shtick.

Serious input as I actually don't want to hurt new players.
I want to hurt the ones on welfare who are in fact capable of honest work, but would rather have the cake and eat it too.

DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.

Shall I do a formal Heil salute while shouting this, or will a more relaxed Heil salute do?

OMG so much this. It's all about fairness.

And they can not war dec you either. The grass is always greener on the other side of the tracks.

I say this because if being in an NPC corp is so much better than being in a player corp then why are you in a player corp?

Everybody is free to choose where they want to be in EVE. Fact is you made your choice and could be in a NPC corp if you wanted. My guess is you all have an alt in a NPC corp that is probably 3+ years old right now anyway.

Please dont be so pathetic. I have never seen any hisec mining corp wardeccing another hisec mining corp over hisec asteroid fields. We all know that OP is just about wardeccing miners in NPC corps, not about wardeccing PvPers in NPC corps. Its all about easy targets

Please dont be so pathetic. I have never seen any hisec mining corp wardeccing another hisec mining corp over hisec asteroid fields. We all know that OP is just about wardeccing miners in NPC corps, not about wardeccing PvPers in NPC corps. Its all about easy targets

People hiding behind the oh the bad man wants to hurt the new guy argument again. Its deff not the hey these people are hiding in NPC corps that cant be wardec and they are 3 4 or 5 years old.

I say this because if being in an NPC corp is so much better than being in a player corp then why are you in a player corp?

Everybody is free to choose where they want to be in EVE. Fact is you made your choice and could be in a NPC corp if you wanted. My guess is you all have an alt in a NPC corp that is probably 3+ years old right now anyway.

So what? It's a GAME. If they want to play that way, let them ******* play that way. Jesus christ what is wrong with bitter vets and PvPers? You all sound like a bunch of blathering fascist idiots.

Just let them play the gods damn game their own gods damn way and you go play your way. It's none of your business how they play or not. It's not your choice. You don't own them. You don't own the game. If they wanna NPC it up, all the more power to them if that floats their boat and makes them happy/relaxed.

If pewpewing people on a gate or belts or in a roam is what floats your boat and gets you happy/relaxed, even more power to YOU.

But what the flying ******* **** on a stick with a side bucket of god ******* dammit is it with people bashing on carebears?! Bots, is one thing, everyone agrees they should be ganked...but the actual carebear players? Jeesh.

No wonder people don't play this game so much, our player base/community elitists suck.

Translation: Let them affect you (every mineral they mine lowers the price of anything I would mine) without any consequeces other than suicide attacks, and be happy about it!

The mission runners are fine, they are sinking isk that would otherwise enter the economy if they were in player corps and taking in less personal income as a trade off for war dec invulnerability, but miners are introducing more material into the game without having to worry about anything but the (now harder) suicide ganker.

Well for the "leet" crowd, why not take your own advice, jump into low, nul or w-space, and mine rare asteroids instead of trying to ruin affect THEIR gameplay, hmm?

Cheaper ships sound good to me. Shouldn't pvp'ers and others be happy that theyll get the cheaper vessels and weapons to the point where their precious ganking becomes profitable? Like I said, if they want play that way, let them play. YOU shouldn't affect THEIR gameplay, just like THEY don't go out of their way to affect YOURS.

Miners gonna Mine.
Haters gonna Hate.

No one can be this dense, or so I thought.



If you would go to the missions and complexs forums you will see what I do, I play all over.

Not the point. The point is the npc miners are affecting the rest of us, we should be able to affect them back (lol). The current state is unfair.




This is what I call a "tell", because it tells us that you have a loack of general morality, and thus project that onto others.

So, because these un-war-deccable NPC miners are providing us with cheap ships, it makes the unfairness of the situation less unfair? Because, as long as I benefit from something, it's ok right?

Wrong.

If I have to pay an ingame price for my chosen activity (and I do), everyone should have to, or no one at all should have to.

All I hear is baaaaw it's unfair they don't get taxed and are safe lasering rocks baaaaw.

Just where is the negative affect aside from some cheap minerals for cheaper gear. If that's it, then get over it.

No

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Then stop posting and leave the NPC bears alone. If they wanna mine, let them mine.

My posting isn't preventing anyone from mining, I'm simply calling attention to an unfair situation. Fairness is an important aspect of a game, and any for-profit business should strive to provide it.

Since overall fairness is not an important concept to you, feel free to ignore my postings.

You vets are hilarious. Most of the problems of this game are actually vet created. You created the mess that is nullsec. You created the mess that is low sec via gate camps and such. YOU have created the problem with highsec by relentlessly exploiting the ruleset to kill newbies. You scream and cry about newbies staying in the NPC corps and then when one tries to join your corp you scream "SPY ALT!!!" or "NOT ENOUGH SP!!!" all day at them. So newbies have the choice of staying in the NPC corp or taking a risk on a small corp that is very likely a ****** corp. On top of that when you don't scream about spies or SP issues you take the opportunity to scam the newbie by taking everything they have or by killing them. Then you come to the forums acting all surprised when newbies stay in the NPC corp.

In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people.

If you want this game to change you might want to take a moment and look at your own actions and how they might be contributing to the problems at hand. You're not hardcore and this game isn't hardcore either. I've seen hundreds of similar games over my decades of game playing. There's nothing special about your ability to play this game. Get over yourself and you might start to see the true problems here. Or you can continue your forum circle jerk about how eve is "cold and hard" and how special you are as people to play such a "cold and hard" game. If you want true "cold and hard" you should turn off the computer and go outside.

I've said my peace as a newbie to this game.

LOL, wow dude. You just dropped the ball on this one.

This is basically you saying "Do as I say, not as I do."

As a highsec bear, i love these threads. You have my permission to carry on!

Since when was Eve fair? Do you ignore the "working as intended" posts spewed by pvpers? The touting of this game as dark, harsh and, oh yeah, unfair?

Sorry I ruin the game for all you guys.
I have a two year old so I get distracted easy. But I love the game and I'm happy shooting rocks, for now. I mostly just sell kernite when the market is favorable so I can collect more ships. It's what I like to do. I'm sorry I ruin the game for everyone else. I'll try to shoot less rocks in the future.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)
GǪ

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions..

02/10

Somebody has been reading Marx.
Label, demonize, marginalize, and destroy. You're 3/4 of the way there.
Nearly every one of your posts has some form of this in it.

Your hate mongering disgusts me.

OP we both pay the same subscription fee. It allows you and I to play how we see fit within the bounds that CCP has set for us. Non-consensual PvP.

I also have other restrictions to my game time. I am a casual player.
I would be doing a diservice to any corp I joined as I wouldn't be able to uphold their requirements. I also feel that I can spend my time better than being a meat shield the entire time I can actually get some time to play.

I don't afk anything except sitting in a station if I have to leave my computer for any reason.
I have never nor will I ever have anything to do with a bot.

NPC Corps..
Who are in these corps?
Null alts, pirate alts, scouts, cyno alts, industrialists, alts to play while hiding from your FC, traders, miners, and you even said haulers.
You are doing more than just forcing newbs to htfu. You are even forcing your peers into something for which they did not ask.

In the end, when you force people to do something, they tend to push back.

Quite often with their wallets.

At which time, you will probably be complaining how empty the game is and why are all the prices so high?

I give it a 02/10 because I was forced to reply.

You're not ruining the game for anyone, you are benefiting from an imbalanced situation that the game makers seem to have so far overlooked when they imposed the npc corp tax.

Any here we have yet another dont change my game as millions will leave post. Again this is not targeted at the new players this is targeted at players that are using the NPC corp as a meat shield. If you are in an NPC corp mine deep inside of your your factions areas where the opposing factions would have a hard time reaching you with out getting blown up. Your safish but you still can be effected by other people.

easily countered by market alt the never fears decs anyway as they never leave station.

Millions won't leave. I would. Many others that I know would. But, our impact on CCP's income wouldn't be very severe.
So, please don't take that statement as doom and gloom.
I do however, want you to consider what will happen to all the alts of those null-sec dwellers, pirates, etc.
Those alts completely lose their functionality.
Some if not most of those alts are on seperate accounts. What happens to those accounts?

Millions won't leave, but enough will be canceled to make a difference. Dismissing this point doesn't make it invalid. It would have to be considered by CCP. To try and be more clear, it probably won't be a huge impact, but it will be noticable.

---

Saying it isn't targeted at new players isn't 100% the truth. It still affects them. Just because someone has 30 days worth of time and skills trained doesn't mean they played 24/7 and learned everything. At 30 days some people may only have 20 or 30 hours and that isn't enough to learn the skills required to survive in the shark tank.

---

I'm not quite sure I understand the last part of your statement. But, safeish does stand out to me.
I don't expect to be safe, not even in the NPC corp. Or in Empire.
When I play I am constantly on D-Scan and watching local for people I've marked as hostile. (for whatever reason they may have given me in the past)
I can still be ganked.
Sure, 15% tax or whatever it is to not be war dec'd doesn't seem like much to you. I'd pay 50% if I had to.
But I don't have the time to play in the style you folks are saying I should play.

Eve is a great game, I enjoy it my way. In the NPC corp, I try to help new players. Steer them away from making the same newbie mistakes that I made. And honestly, I'm still a newb.

Please tell me how to set up my toon to never pay market tax or broker fees for selling items on the market. I have not figured that one out yet

Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game.

It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff.

Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp.

/end thread

If you leave you shouldn't be allowed back into them

@Mlrple, thank you for the clarification. I'll have to think about that for a bit. But, at first glance that seems ok.

@Vincent Athena - That is a very interesting concept. They would have to make sure the reciprical nerf wasn't so harsh that new players struggle to get anywhere with mining.
Would this also have an effect on missioning? Also any of the other professions?

If it only hit mining, that brings it in line with the current trend of GD trying to erradicate mining from the game.
I trust that isn't your intention?

How about just leave the poor miners alone for now. They are in one of the lowest ISK per hour professions as it is.
Mr Epeen

Why do you think its such a poor profession though?

Unfortunately, you can't force people to be in a Corp. The only thing that would result from getting rid of NPC corps would be a vast migration of players to another game. They just don't want to be in a Corp. ..and who can blame them?

Corp. : You have to do what your told, follow some asshats leadership, get bossed around and told to be online at regular hours or you'll be forcibly ejected, etc..

NPC Corp. : Do whatever you like, when you like and nobody in your Corp judges you or tells you to do things. You are accountable only to yourself and never need worry about being kicked, plus you have a great Corp chat where people who feel the same way you do hang out. (Something else you won't find in a player Corp in most cases.)

So really, given a choice between not playing and being forced to group and Corp and be someones tool, what do you think they're going to do?

Honestly who actually gives a **** about a few noobs in NPC corps mining away that can't be wardecked? Do people really give a toss about minor stuff like this?

Honestly it makes me chuckle that people cry so hard not being able to shoot a bunch of noobs making relatively little pretend space money.

Just play a goddam game and have some fun and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Just allow NPC corps to be wardecced

Keep the NPC corps around.

Problem solved.

I am still missing the point of why miners in NPC corps need to be wardecable?