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Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:10:00 - [1] CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will.
Armoured C Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:14:00 - [2] need more ram? THE EVE REPORT
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Desert Ice78 CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or I will. fixed
Ordais	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:16:00 - [4] Whats this, random whine or something specific your ranting about?
Di Mulle	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:19:00 - [5] Torfi just talked about drugs in Incarna. We don't need those already. We already have Sanctums, with all heavy dependency symptoms.
LogixCraft Gallente Death by Crayon Cascade Associates	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:20:00 - [6] Edited by: LogixCraft on 26/03/2011 17:21:31 /forum whine index increased ----------------------------- Eve-Compendium
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Ordais Whats this, random whine or something specific your ranting about? Ordais, you need to read this: Greyscale's fail idea on how to improve Nul-sec; for everyone mind you.....
Eternal Noob	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:32:00 - [8] His decision is horrid. I wonder who else in the team supported it, and decided that Greyscale was going to put his name on it. Anyone on on the team could have killed it at any time. So who all on the team was a part in it? Does that matter? EVE is pretty much becoming a "put your $$$-to-play-actively" game now anyway. In fact if you don't want to grind yet want to be in on the most important events in this game, you either spend a lot of hours at the keyboard ...or you pay money to skip the grinds. Now, this is a new realm. This affects people who were established or trying to make it, maybe not RiCh and in charge, or maybe so. The whole thing is half-baked. This decision, either you make that decision in conjunction with a lot of other hardcore decisions, or just don't do it. Or, make a clean/new server that does not accept money-for-PLEX, or ISK transfers from existing characters. bam. done. Trust me, THAT server/servers would be off the chain.
Meeogi Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:43:00 - [9] CCP will never accomplish its stated goals...because humans don't play like that. People will clump together always into two massive groups. This goes for politics and wars. Allies, axis.....democrat, republican, labor, torrey. It's the way of things. I'm all for shaking things up........but you will always end up with two massive opposing sides....then one will either be conquered or collapse...then the cycle repeats. Eve has gone through a few of these revolutions already. what was the first major war ..bob and acf?
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:46:00 - [10] I actually see this as a good thing. Imagine all the back stabbing that will happen when this goes live, it makes me wanna fap.
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Desert Ice78 I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. You and your friends, don't slam the door on your way out.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Eternal Noob Or, make a clean/new server that does not accept money-for-PLEX, or ISK transfers from existing characters. bam. done. Trust me, THAT server/servers would be EMPTY. FTFY
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:50:00 - [13] Your stuff, can I has?
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Milla Jovo*** Originally by:** Desert Ice78 I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. You and your friends, don't slam the door on your way out. He chose the wrong/correct alliance to join before making that threat.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:55:00 - [15] 1. Stop posting 2. Become a better EVE pilot 3. Take better truesec space 4. Continue farming Sanctums ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Desert Ice78 we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. The nullbears leave eve? I don't have a problem with this. Carry on. There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:57:00 - [17] U matt? Vote Sokratesz for CSM-6!
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:01:00 - [18] I don't agree with firing him, also he's part of a team, and the voice of the team. Thus he is not entirely to blame for what was posted, sad that a team came up with it though. Certainly he needs to rethink it.
Sensaia The Wyld Hunt The G0dfathers	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:20:00 - [19] EVE is REAL ergo rethink this, or fire that whole team that brought this up.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:23:00 - [20] Originally by: El'Niaga Certainly he needs to rethink it. Yes. This nugget is proof of how deluded these high-sec GMs really are... Quote: Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec So by effectively reducing the number of systems where upgrades yield usable results, you hope there will be more room for "upstarts." I am sure an established alliance will gladly yield their < -0.0 truesec systems to Captain Random Thunderpants and his band of delightfully fresh players. By now, I am hoping the entire dev blog is a troll. It seems so full of erroneous conclusions that it must be. Either that, or the team behind really do not have a clue why people do what they do in EVE and what is really wrong with anomalies. Hopefully someone will buy them a beer tonight and explain it to them in words they can understand.
Akasa Dwarf	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:31:00 - [21] its a bad idea!
Pres Obama	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:32:00 - [22] Get ****ed ccp.
Rakamy	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:53:00 - [23] So you want to fire some one because he wants to rebalanced (because basically this is what this is all about inset it) the game LOL....some of you guys make me laugh
Ceyna Lakise Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:03:00 - [24] The carebears are angry... Making good use of system upgrades and establishing more variety to space is a good thing. And if there is a lot of strain on coalitions about good spots for resources I am all for seeing them tear these massive blue-blobs apart. Less NAPs, less blues, more fun. Camp the good spots and kick the rest out.
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Rakamy So you want to fire some one because he wants to rebalanced (because basically this is what this is all about inset it) the game LOL....some of you guys make me laugh No, I want him fired because he is pushing for changes that he thinks will improve the amount of combat in nul-sec and create a more dynamic and evolving nul-sec (ergo improved the experience of nul-sec for those that live there) but will in actual fact turn nul-sec back into a pre-domination wasteland, will concentrate all the wealth even more into the hands of the limited power-bloc's making them even more entrenched in their part of space, and will decimate nul-sec warfare as there will be no reason to fight for the worthless space and nothing with which to fight it with. I want him fired because he is incompetent in that he cannot see or understand that his changes will destroy nul-sec again rather then improve it.
Jelek Coro Erase Rewind	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:10:00 - [26] So, the changes effectively role things back to pre Dominion? Good. Only a problem for people who rent... otherwise, tool up and take a nice spot.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:21:00 - [27] ??? I read the devblog, I am a (sort of) carebear, and I don't see the problem. Maybe if you stopped whining and explained the reasons why you think that is a bad decision (so bad that it requires to demote its creator) I might even have agreed with you. Maybe. As it stands now the arguments of greyscale (more strife, more drama, more strategy) seems convincing to me. He might be wrong but since you didn't bother to present your reasons I have no reason to beleive otherwise. So congratulations, your effective post has convinced me that Greyscale is right. Anyway, the OP needs a serious attitude adjustment.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:29:00 - [28] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/03/2011 19:30:42 The funny thing here is that Greyscale is actually pretty good at his job. He's been responsible for a large number of PVE improvements over the years and has consistently given 110% to help ensure that the players are kept up to date. Attacking him as a "bean counter" not only does great injustice to him, but also exposes your own ignorance of reality. Bean counters are there to make sure that not only you are able to get your job done, but also everyone else. Its really very simple: without "bean counters", the total effectiveness of the system you're working on goes into the crapper. With regards to the rage about the dev blog itself, I can only say that most of it seems to be a knee jerk reaction from the ignorant masses to an unexpected move on CCP's part. Lots of them are simply anti-nerf, but that's a silly way to be. Anti-nerf simply leads to power creep and mudflation - both of which destabilize and kill games. There's also tons of hyperbole about how 0.0 is going to be worse than high sec. Its really simple to me: 0.0 wasn't worse than high sec before Dominion, and it wouldn't be worse afterwards either. You have to remember that the total ISK faucet in 0.0 will get smaller, and that will affect the rest of the game. With less raw ISK coming from 0.0, we'll see prices and trade based mission rewards (loot, LP, etc) go down. Then there's the somewhat muddy change to agent quality coming - which as originally described could push most high sec agent qualities quite low. Low agent qualities would make mission reward+bonus go down dramatically, and thus LP conversion begin to eat quite heavily into mission bounties. The net effect there is even lower net ISK inflow into the economy. Its also worth noting that while certain systems (and even whole regions - notably Pure Blind, Providence, and Cloud Ring) will stop having sanctums, there's still going to be a large number of sanctums and havens out there to be run. Cailais expressed it well in that there would be an up front migratory pressure to push individual people towards places where they make better 0.0 income - notably good truesec 0.0. I'm a bit unsure as to how well his goal of shaking things up and forcing more conflict will work out in practice, but it at least runs the chance of slightly destabilizing large coalitions. Also, at least there's going to be some truly crappy 0.0 out there again. Believe it or not, that's important to the game. And the final point is that he's reexamining the changes and it remains to be seen what the final changes are going to be. But given the fact the players of a game typically have a myopia, and Greyscale's fantastic track record in the past... I'm pretty confident he'll make the right decision. Also: I'm fairly sure he does play the game. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Galen Kane Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:37:00 - [29] This is EvE. Hardden the Fuk up. Yeah I do have a Bob Alt* NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Space Wanderer ??? I read the devblog, I am a (sort of) carebear, and I don't see the problem. Maybe if you stopped whining and explained the reasons why you think that is a bad decision (so bad that it requires to demote its creator) I might even have agreed with you. Maybe. As it stands now the arguments of greyscale (more strife, more drama, more strategy) seems convincing to me. He might be wrong but since you didn't bother to present your reasons I have no reason to beleive otherwise. So congratulations, your effective post has convinced me that Greyscale is right. Anyway, the OP needs a serious attitude adjustment. The reasons are that he is proposing changes, the results of which will be the exact opposite of that which he states are his intentions. THAT is the problem. If you, like Greyscale, are having trouble understanding this, you need to look through this thread, and this thread and this thread.
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/03/2011 19:30:42 snip -Liang Liang, I don't like this anymore then you do; in fact I find this quite distasteful. However, this is not the first bat**** crazy idea that someone in CCP has had, and I would hate it even more to come back to these forums in 6 months time to see a blog from someone saying that killing nul-sec was in fact a bad idea and that they are going to give it another go, when everyone has already left, and the game is dead.
Hesperius	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:48:00 - [32] Considering that CCP wants to make the game more difficult for players, if people were NOT making cry baby threads I would think they were doing a bad job at reaching their goals. This thread probably puts CCP Grayscale that much closer to getting a raise.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Desert Ice78 CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. Where do YOU work? I demand that YOU be fired from YOUR work for posting such threads, how would that reflect on THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/03/2011 19:30:42 snip -Liang Liang, I don't like this anymore then you do; in fact I find this quite distasteful. However, this is not the first bat**** crazy idea that someone in CCP has had, and I would hate it even more to come back to these forums in 6 months time to see a blog from someone saying that killing nul-sec was in fact a bad idea and that they are going to give it another go, when everyone has already left, and the game is dead. The problem is that everyone's just knee jerking so far, and nobody's even sat down and looked at what the dev blog said. Hell, half the people still think there's going to be no high end plexes at all below 0.8 space - and that just displays a complete lack of reading the dev blog at all. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
aycee F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Jelek Coro So, the changes effectively role things back to pre Dominion? Good. Only a problem for people who rent... otherwise, tool up and take a nice spot. now if we could only lose the supercap buff and the new sov system too :\| I'll keep the aoe dd change though.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:53:00 - [36] Edited by: mechtech on 26/03/2011 19:54:59 I absolutely don't support any call to fire any CCP employee (unless it's a case of corruption like T20). They are all valuable cogs in the design process, and this is something I want CCP itself to handle. Forum whining should have a limit, no? Constructive criticism guys edit: I'm TOTALLY for asymmetrical space. There should be things for 0.0 people to fight over, and I think there's currently not enough stuff to fight over or defend other than of course, killboard stats. The idea is sound.
Wild Rho Amarr Sniggerdly	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:55:00 - [37] Strategic resources (moon minerals, true sec values etc) really need to be more dynamic so you have areas that become depleted (less valuable) over time and other lesser used areas become more valuable so there is always an incentive to go out and fight for space.
SO Chong	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:55:00 - [38] @ OP: The game is being developed and has a certain idea behind it and that is that the game has to be hard. Rewards aren't there easy. This game has it's drive in conflicts. Posting to fire a CCP employee because he isn't giving you enough "bacon" as you like is a bit childish. Isn't it? Posting here telling the rest of the community that you are effected in a bad way by this event is ok...but keep the "Fire the dude" or "I am leaving" to a minimum if you want to be taken seriously by most of the normal people on these forums.
Cailais Amarr Neo-Tech Solutions	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:56:00 - [39] Dear OP, CCP Greyscale has added some excellent features to EVE in the past. Seeing as I've never heard of you I think its probably for the best if you unsub all your accounts and donate all of your stuff to the first noobie you see before the door hits you on the way out. kthxbye. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
SmashTech	Posted - 2011.03.26 19:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Wild Rho Strategic resources (moon minerals, true sec values etc) really need to be more dynamic so you have areas that become depleted (less valuable) over time and other lesser used areas become more valuable so there is always an incentive to go out and fight for space. Look, Eyjog was having trouble managing to respond to basic questions such as "How many PLEX are there in-game?" (despite the numbers already being published) so don't get your hopes up about someone figuring out that TECHNETIUM IS BROKEN AND CCP SHOULD BE ASHAMED but don't expect a fix until after we get our scars and tattooes.
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Desert Ice78 CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. Look at these tears. STAY THE COURSE, GREYSCALE. ONLY YOU CAN SAVE US. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:03:00 - [42] Originally by: SmashTech but don't expect a fix until we spend a bunch of PLEX on scars and tattooes. FYP ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Mak Gruber	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:05:00 - [43] OP is just a little upset that he may not be able to sit on his fat ass, while letting his sanctum carrier make his billions. All high end r64 moons should be moved to WH space.....and the current ones should start slowly depleting. You want to start seeing real wars, cunning and betrayal? .....Watch what happens when supply's slowly start to dwindle.... and the pvp in whs...would bring it back to what I think we all want. You only need to look at oil if you need proof.
Xenuchrist STK Scientific	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:06:00 - [44] Aaaaawwww... Show us on this doll where Greyscale touched you on your carebear parts. -- "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:07:00 - [45] Originally by: SmashTech TECHNETIUM IS BROKEN AND CCP SHOULD BE ASHAMED What are you talking about? Technetium is awesome.
Mastertz	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:10:00 - [46] So many tears over rats. I'll say it again and again: "Carebear tears are best tears." Don't quit, I enjoy blowing up your expensively fit T3s and Carriers.
Korasen Abora Sayara	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:14:00 - [47] Desert Ice78 needs to be either moved to a place where he will no longer post on the forums, or else banned from EVE Online. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Desert Ice78 remains in a position to post on these forums, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Desert Ice78 is a beancounter. He reads a devblog without grasping what it means and then makes judgements that affect forum threads based upon what the voices in his head are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his forum post states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Desert Ice78 is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Desert Ice78 leaves or we will.
Ai Mei Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:19:00 - [48] Op sounds like a carebear in 0.0 ratting all the time. Whats the matter little girl did big bad CCP take away all your sanctums so you can no longer rat. Did the big bad CCP make it so you have to put effort into the game to earn money? Awww poor baby, Hello kitty online is that way.
Thisby My O'face	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Galen Kane Edited by: Galen Kane on 26/03/2011 19:38:43 This is EvE. Harden the Fu*k up. This.
Alexi Komanov	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Desert Ice78 CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. Well, since you're leaving I wouldn't mind your stuff...
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Alexi Komanov Originally by: Desert Ice78 CCP Greyscale needs to be either moved to a place of less influence, or else fired from CCP. It is with a heavy heart and with no pleasure that I call for this extreme measure. There are levels of incompetence and ineptitude that I can tolerate and levels which I simply cannot. I love this game and I want to protect it, and I feel that if Greyscale remains in a position of influence, then by virtue of the path he is taking it will come to a point where he has permanently and irrevocably damaged the game. I have to take a stand now. Greyscale is a beancounter. He runs the figures and then makes judgements that affect the whole game based upon what those figures are telling him. Nothing good can ever come from such a short-sighted and limited view of Eve. It is still beyond me to understand how anyone can propose changes, the effect of which will be the precise opposite of that which his blog states is intended. How can anyone be involved with a product and yet have such a limited understanding of it? This is what tells me that Greyscale is neither qualified nor able to manage the position he is in. While I do not want to sound overly dramatic, I believe that CCP now has a stark choice; we have reached the point where either Greyscale leaves or we will. Well, since you're leaving I wouldn't mind your stuff... Alexi, I honestly wish I actually had something worth giving to you...
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.26 20:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Originally by: Space Wanderer ??? I read the devblog, I am a (sort of) carebear, and I don't see the problem. Maybe if you stopped whining and explained the reasons why you think that is a bad decision (so bad that it requires to demote its creator) I might even have agreed with you. Maybe. As it stands now the arguments of greyscale (more strife, more drama, more strategy) seems convincing to me. He might be wrong but since you didn't bother to present your reasons I have no reason to beleive otherwise. So congratulations, your effective post has convinced me that Greyscale is right. Anyway, the OP needs a serious attitude adjustment. The reasons are that he is proposing changes, the results of which will be the exact opposite of that which he states are his intentions. THAT is the problem. If you, like Greyscale, are having trouble understanding this, you need to look through this thread, and this thread and this thread. Your issue is not with Greyscale, nor the changes that he and his team propose, but rather with the fact that you do not want to have to fight for what you have. You and your friends are happily ensconced in your areas having set everyone around you to blue while you run your isk printing sites. These changes will force you to actually work to keep those sites. No longer will you be able to just set people to blue and go about your business. You will have to be constantly watching over your collective shoulders for the inevitable strike from a neighbour who wants your slightly better space for himself. This is exactly how things have played out over the entire length of human history. There is always going to be someone who wants what you have, and the way the system runs at the moment this kind of behaviour has become stifled to the point of non-existence. The only thing these changes will bring about is a return to a normal state of affairs, and that is what has you all so angry. You believe that you are entitled to what you have, that it is some sort of divine right perhaps? Clearly you are all deluded, and this has burst your little bubble. It would serve you well to remember that you are not the only people in this game, you are not the only people wanting a slice of the pie and now you are going to have to actually fight for your supper instead of singing the song of NAP. Your insistence on the sacking of a valued member of staff only serves to highlight your clear self serving bias and will only confirm what many of us already suspect, that there are too many people getting far too comfortable in EVE. Remember this, EVE is not designed to look like a cold, harsh place. It IS a cold, harsh place. Maybe its time you were reminded of this.
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: Desert Ice78 Originally by: Space Wanderer ??? I read the devblog, I am a (sort of) carebear, and I don't see the problem. Maybe if you stopped whining and explained the reasons why you think that is a bad decision (so bad that it requires to demote its creator) I might even have agreed with you. Maybe. As it stands now the arguments of greyscale (more strife, more drama, more strategy) seems convincing to me. He might be wrong but since you didn't bother to present your reasons I have no reason to beleive otherwise. So congratulations, your effective post has convinced me that Greyscale is right. Anyway, the OP needs a serious attitude adjustment. The reasons are that he is proposing changes, the results of which will be the exact opposite of that which he states are his intentions. THAT is the problem. If you, like Greyscale, are having trouble understanding this, you need to look through this thread, and this thread and this thread. Your issue is not with Greyscale, nor the changes that he and his team propose, but rather with the fact that you do not want to have to fight for what you have. You and your friends are happily ensconced in your areas having set everyone around you to blue while you run your isk printing sites. These changes will force you to actually work to keep those sites. No longer will you be able to just set people to blue and go about your business. You will have to be constantly watching over your collective shoulders for the inevitable strike from a neighbour who wants your slightly better space for himself. This is exactly how things have played out over the entire length of human history. There is always going to be someone who wants what you have, and the way the system runs at the moment this kind of behaviour has become stifled to the point of non-existence. The only thing these changes will bring about is a return to a normal state of affairs, and that is what has you all so angry. You believe that you are entitled to what you have, that it is some sort of divine right perhaps? Clearly you are all deluded, and this has burst your little bubble. It would serve you well to remember that you are not the only people in this game, you are not the only people wanting a slice of the pie and now you are going to have to actually fight for your supper instead of singing the song of NAP. Your insistence on the sacking of a valued member of staff only serves to highlight your clear self serving bias and will only confirm what many of us already suspect, that there are too many people getting far too comfortable in EVE. Remember this, EVE is not designed to look like a cold, harsh place. It IS a cold, harsh place. Maybe its time you were reminded of this. You are wrong, my issue IS with Greyscale. He can kill nul-sec all he wants, he can hand the power-blocs all the pie he wants, he can destroy nul-sec pvp all he wants, and he can turn whole swaths of nul-sec into a lifeless and barren wasteland if he likes, but what he cannot do is tell me that he wants to induce more pvp, and improve nul-sec for everyone and break up the large coalitions when even the most basic understanding of nul-sec living will tell you that if you make the changes that he is proposing, then that is the last thing that is going to happen. I don't care about the changes, I care about the ignorance of the changes, because THAT is what will eventually kill this game.
Commander TGK Gallente The Deep Space Armada	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:09:00 - [54] Originally by: Desert Ice78 I'm a total douchebag Seconded
Fkn Arson 0ne Percent.	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:19:00 - [55] I agree, it is obvious that Greyscale is acting alone and with no input, whatsoever, from anyone, at all, outside his realm of influence, which is changing null-sec, in this case. Please remove him asap so the next person who replaces him can be removed in a timely manner as well!
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Desert Ice78 You are wrong, my issue IS with Greyscale. He can kill nul-sec all he wants, he can hand the power-blocs all the pie he wants, he can destroy nul-sec pvp all he wants, and he can turn whole swaths of nul-sec into a lifeless and barren wasteland if he likes, but what he cannot do is tell me that he wants to induce more pvp, and improve nul-sec for everyone and break up the large coalitions when even the most basic understanding of nul-sec living will tell you that if you make the changes that he is proposing, then that is the last thing that is going to happen. I don't care about the changes, I care about the ignorance of the changes, because THAT is what will eventually kill this game. It may have escaped your notice but CCP staff do not get to release updates, patches or game changes without it going through a very thorough vetting process. For a start CCP Greyscale undoubtedly works with numerous other employees who are on an equal footing with him. Next is the fact that every single change he talks about will have been passed through various hands, some below him and without a shadow of a doubt some higher than him. You can rage all you like and claim that it is only directed at Greyscale, but it should be clear to most people here that the truth is as I stated it. You are attempting to make yourself seem reasonable by attacking an individual while at the same time claiming that you don't care about the actual changes he is proposing. Then you claim you do care about the changes but only so far as their effects on you. If you cannot see how imbalanced this actually makes you appear then I fear no amount of talking on here can help you. You also seem to think you speak for someone other than yourself when you say "we". It is unwise to assume you speak for anyone other than yourself as I am pretty certain that those you claim to speak for will not be standing by your side when you are left with only the option to quit the game as you threatened to do. CCP will not be firing CCP Greyscale because he has broken no rules or laws. What he has done is to be part of a team that has come up with a solution for the stagnant NAPfest that nullsec has become. You can attempt to justify your attitude any way you see fit, but don't think you are fooling too many people.
Orkasm Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:20:00 - [57] Its ****ing terrible that we sat at a 0.0 roundtable for an hour talking about pos mods being outside poses etc and he didnt even bother to bring up this devblog and changes during it so we could pas judgment (read = Excorsism)
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:25:00 - [58] I vote Greyscale stays and gets a pay raise. Since this is internet democracy, my vote counters OPs vote and he should stay right where he is. neener neener neener. ♥
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:31:00 - [59] Originally by: Liang Nuren stuff -Liang yes certainly some people are over reacting but if you want people to be out in nullsec you need to give them something to do. and there are other changes that imo could be better done to do that. providence was pretty much worthless for years and imo that was the only reason cva held onto it.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:31:00 - [60] Originally by: Orkasm Its ****ing terrible that we sat at a 0.0 roundtable for an hour talking about pos mods being outside poses etc and he didnt even bother to bring up this devblog and changes during it so we could pas judgment (read = Excorsism) I mean no offense, but what makes you think you are entitled to that? The changes he proposes are the only thing that will revitalise 0.0 and may even have the added bonus of attrcting people into low-sec in preparation for a life in 0.0 A stagnant society will die, and 0.0 has become stagnant. How many whine threads are dotted around the forums concerning the endless NAP trains that dominate much of 0.0 life? How many threads are there from smaller alliances begging for a chance to get into 0.0? How many threads are there going in to extreme detail about the unfair distribution of resources in 0.0 and how they are available ONLY to massive alliances? When you take even a cursory glance over these threads it becomes clear that there is, and has been for a while, a major imbalance in the way 0.0 functions with regards to resources and also the way in which alliances function within that space. The OP is angry that he will now have to consider actually working to hold space that presently remains mostly uncontested owing to the perma NAP trains that permeate most of 0.0 These changes are needed, no discussion should be had about their implementation, CCP cannot always listen to the players much in the same way that parents will not always listen to their children. In this instance people like the OP are like children asking for candy for dinner, and CCP are the parents telling us we have to eat our veg first. Seems the OP can't stomach a decent meal, or a fight.
Felix Decat	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:34:00 - [61] +1 for Greyscale. There is more to 0.0 then farming Sanctums. I personally live in area of in an area of 0.0 that will be affected by the change, and while it kind of sucks, if it helps remove pressure from hostile locals, it could be a plus. As an aside, there is too much money in the game right now and industry is not even half of what it could be. Isk generation faucets need a serious clampdown, this is going to help. Now about the botters.......
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:36:00 - [62] What about the announcement a while back where CCP announced the addition of 5/10, 6, 7, 8 and 9 /10s for all pirate factions. Yes its SOON TM but there will ways to fill that void.
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:41:00 - [63] I didn't see the roundtable so maybe this thread is warranted but my first thought is... Why would you expect clear answers from Greyscale about the economy or possible changes to it? If he drops the slightest speculation about what they may do there could be mass hoarding or sell offs based on it. An Eve economist really needs to be careful what they talk about.
Lise Kahel	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:43:00 - [64] Nice. I'm less convinced about the nerfing though (nullsec carebearing already barely competes with highsec, but for the people that actually spend more time carebearing than pvp). One thing though; most alliances sunk quite some ISK in those upgrades, if anything they'll stay put for some time and their space is not worth taking. But have with fun coming up with some decent arguments in front of CSM -if you dare ofcourse-
Orkasm Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: Orkasm Its **ing terrible that we sat at a 0.0 roundtable for an hour talking about pos mods being outside poses etc and he didnt even bother to bring up this devblog and changes during it so we could pas judgment (read = Excorsism) I mean no offense, but what makes you think you are entitled to that? The changes he proposes are the only thing that will revitalise 0.0 and may even have the added bonus of attrcting people into low-sec in preparation for a life in 0.0 A stagnant society will die, and 0.0 has become stagnant. How many whine threads are dotted around the forums concerning the endless NAP trains that dominate much of 0.0 life? How many threads are there from smaller alliances begging for a chance to get into 0.0? How many threads are there going in to extreme detail about the unfair distribution of resources in 0.0 and how they are available ONLY to massive alliances? When you take even a cursory glance over these threads it becomes clear that there is, and has been for a while, a major imbalance in the way 0.0 functions with regards to resources and also the way in which alliances function within that space. The OP is angry that he will now have to consider actually working to hold space that presently remains mostly uncontested owing to the perma NAP trains that permeate most of 0.0 These changes are needed, no discussion should be had about their implementation, CCP cannot always listen to the players much in the same way that parents will not always listen to their children. In this instance people like the OP are like children asking for candy for dinner, and CCP are the parents telling us we have to eat our veg first. Seems the OP can't stomach a decent meal, or a fight. Right, if you had made the effort to come to fanfest and see what ccp had been wanting they are trying to 'Change the 0.0 players attitudes' instead of changing the games, its all Grayscale went on about at the round table. Getting us to fight together as smaller groups and remove the 'blob' mentality. Now they want us to fight over individual small areas of good space. Thus More blob warfare because the space is so required by alliances we will throw everything we have at it to take it, thus more huge fights and Soul Crushing Lag. It was a common consensus amongst the players here and if you read the thread on the forum there too that this is NOT a good idea. make all of 0.0 more viable for alliance ISK making and make sov easier to take, along with target for smaller gangs to hit without needing massive blobs (pos mods outside shield, miner & silo for example) that can still serve to ** off larger alliances and have smaller gangs patroling to defend said silos and miners this will encourage smaller gang warfare and a fluid sov system
Marley Browning	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:59:00 - [66] This decision got me thinking, I don't think im going to stay in 0.0 for much longer as its going to be far to hard to make isk. Maybe I will try my hand at wh space or something like that but realistically I just see myself eventually quitting eve with all the recent crap game play decisions the devs are making.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.03.26 21:59:00 - [67] I'm going to have to agree with Liang. People are just having a knee jerk reaction. This change isnt going to kill 0.0 anymore than any other change has in the past. As someone else in this thread has said, it looks like the isk faucet is getting turned down a bit. Theres nothing wrong with that. CCP is trying to free up some 0.0 systems to give the little guys a chance to claim their own space. However, I do doubt the changes proposed so far will force 0.0 alliances to contract into a smaller space to give those smaller guys a chance. Should be interesting to see the changes and how 0.0 alliances react to them though.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.03.26 22:16:00 - [68] two things: one, it is entirely likely that CCP Greyscale passed this by several other people within CCP, including CCP Zulu, CCP Nozh, and a couple other people within game design. So, while you're demanding Greyscale be fired, I'd like to suggest there are likely other people who share as much of the 'blame' as he, so be sure to refocus your rage accordingly. two, people lived for years in 0.0 without sanctums. They even lived for years in fairly awful space like Providence without sanctums. The world of internet spaceships is hardly at an end because you're going to take an X% hit to your isk/hr. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Nikgah Plz	Posted - 2011.03.26 22:20:00 - [69] Keep in mind...carebears make Eve go round. Without carebears, there is no ships, no pirating and no one buying officer mods etc etc etc.
SirJoJo	Posted - 2011.03.26 22:21:00 - [70] He needs a raise instead!
Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.26 22:32:00 - [71] Are you really this stupid or do you act this way to get attention? (Or lulz if your a troll)
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.26 22:38:00 - [72] Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 26/03/2011 22:44:36 Originally by: Orkasm Right, if you had made the effort to come to fanfest and see what ccp had been wanting they are trying to 'Change the 0.0 players attitudes' instead of changing the games, its all Grayscale went on about at the round table. Getting us to fight together as smaller groups and remove the 'blob' mentality. Now they want us to fight over individual small areas of good space. Thus More blob warfare because the space is so required by alliances we will throw everything we have at it to take it, thus more huge fights and Soul Crushing Lag. It was a common consensus amongst the players here and if you read the thread on the forum there too that this is NOT a good idea. make all of 0.0 more viable for alliance ISK making and make sov easier to take, along with target for smaller gangs to hit without needing massive blobs (pos mods outside shield, miner & silo for example) that can still serve to **** off larger alliances and have smaller gangs patroling to defend said silos and miners this will encourage smaller gang warfare and a fluid sov system First of all it is rude to assume that everyone can afford the time or money to go to Iceland, well done for you if you could, I have however watched as much as was aired on the live stream. Secondly how has it not occured to you that the very reason these things are happening is because player attitudes are NOT changing. You may speak for yourself, maybe even your entire alliance, you may even be speaking for every single poster on these forums but that still makes up a very tiny percentage of the 0.0 population. Just because you are willing to do something it does not automatically follow that everyone else is willing to do the same. It should be blindingly obvious that some people wish things to remain exactly as they are. It is these people that end up forcing CCP's hand when it comes to game changes, and it is to those people you should take your grievances. While I agree that CCP sometimes has heavy handed methods of getting things done, there are also times when they have little to no choice. You would agree, would you not, that things cannot remain as they are? With the new system in place the larger alliances will have no choice but to shed some systems, consolidating themselves into a smaller area while retaining maximum profit, thus freeing up areas for smaller alliances to "step up" into better space. When it comes to blob warfare there is really very little that CCP can do to alter the situation as for the most part it seems to be more about a certain mind set than an actual need for blobbing. The excuse has always been that we blob because they blob, but by making it more profitable to hold less space, blobbing will become the exception instead of the norm. The larger alliances will still hold the most profitable space, as they do right now, and wars will still rage over the resources as they do now, but those wars will be over less actual space. Smaller borders will mean less need for gigantic cap fleets and less need for extensive networks all of which consume time, effort and resources to maintain. At the same time, smaller alliances will be able to gain a solid foothold at the bottom of the 0.0 ladder by occupying the now deserted "poorer" regions. Fights will undoubtedly break out over these areas much in the same way as they will in the richer areas, with patches of space changing hands frequently as fledgling alliances attempt to gain a solid purchase. While this is going on it may well encourage people to come to nullsec, to use it as a training ground for 0.0. A constant trickle of people coming down from high sec, looking to settle their small part of the wild west as it were. I can't imagine a more fitting outcome to this round of changes. As to the OP, I still maintain that his only real issue is that his time of peace is over, he will have to dust of the guns, polish his boots and take to the trenches to defend his land.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.03.26 23:14:00 - [73] 'wah wah wah, I'll be forced to PvP in nullsec :(' Just get out you ridiculous nub Go back to hisec, I hear you can carebear quite safely over there. Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.26 23:38:00 - [74] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/03/2011 23:43:30 Originally by: Liang Nuren Then there's the somewhat muddy change to agent quality coming - which as originally described could push most high sec agent qualities quite low. Low agent qualities would make mission reward+bonus go down dramatically, and thus LP conversion begin to eat quite heavily into mission bounties. The net effect there is even lower net ISK inflow into the economy. I have been away from the forums for a time and I have missed this. You have a reference? Or it was said at fanfest? TY
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.27 00:15:00 - [75] Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 27/03/2011 00:17:13 Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/03/2011 23:43:30 Originally by: Liang Nuren Then there's the somewhat muddy change to agent quality coming - which as originally described could push most high sec agent qualities quite low. Low agent qualities would make mission reward+bonus go down dramatically, and thus LP conversion begin to eat quite heavily into mission bounties. The net effect there is even lower net ISK inflow into the economy. I have been away from the forums for a time and I have missed this. You have a reference? Or it was said at fanfest? TY This was said at fanfest, though where it got "muddy" is beyond me. It was made quite clear that effective quality will not be affected but that the quality levels themselves will be removed. Quite where all this "OMG LP WILL BE WORTHLESS" rubbish has come from is beyond me. To make it very, very clear mission rewards + bonus will NOT be affected by these changes. The videos of this and all other parts of fanfest will be available on the CCP Youtube page by the end of next week according to someone at CCP. CCP Youtube page Keep an eye out there.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.27 04:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Felix Decat There is more to 0.0 then farming Sanctums. I personally live in area of in an area of 0.0 that will be affected by the change, and while it kind of sucks, if it helps remove pressure from hostile locals, it could be a plus. As an aside, there is too much money in the game right now and industry is not even half of what it could be. Isk generation faucets need a serious clampdown, this is going to help. Now about the botters....... right, but things that get people out and active in 0.0 are good things.
Hecatonis Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.27 05:39:00 - [77] i always get a really good laugh at nul sec carebears crying. you are meant to be in some of the most dangerous space in the game, do you really think that you should have the most income, the best equipment drops and be protected by countless jumps in secured lands? no, get over it. some people here tried to make the point that "CCP is trying to stop blobbing, but they are concentrating the resources, this is only encourage blobbing" well not being at fanfest i can only say what i saw in feeds and read. the players are refusing to brake up the blob, and i think that is why CCP is doing this. the blob is expensive, the cost in ships and time must be staggering, but this is mitigated by a massive amount of ISK that can be made there the space to set up the production, and the defenses to hold the choke points. you can set up massive walls around your empire, farm, mine, and produce away. you can toss wave after wave of ships and never move an inch because your income lets this happen, this is why it needs to stop being this way. it will not remove the blob because you people refuse to remove it, but what CCP can do is make it harder to support those kinds of numbers. nul sec will still be a great income source, and some of the best income in the game, but it will become less controlled, and i am all for that. adapt or die __________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.27 06:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Hecatonis i always get a really good laugh at nul sec carebears crying. you are meant to be in some of the most dangerous space in the game, do you really think that you should have the most income, the best equipment drops and be protected by countless jumps in secured lands? no, get over it. Ok. How is that relevant in any way. This change will not affect the security of 0.0 in any way. It just means a huge chunk of it just became worse to live in and the people who invested in developing those areas are royally screwed. Generally this will be the new/smaller entities. Originally by: Hecatonis some people here tried to make the point that "CCP is trying to stop blobbing, but they are concentrating the resources, this is only encourage blobbing" well not being at fanfest i can only say what i saw in feeds and read. the players are refusing to brake up the blob, and i think that is why CCP is doing this. the blob is expensive, the cost in ships and time must be staggering, but this is mitigated by a massive amount of ISK that can be made there the space to set up the production, and the defenses to hold the choke points. you can set up massive walls around your empire, farm, mine, and produce away. you can toss wave after wave of ships and never move an inch because your income lets this happen, this is why it needs to stop being this way. Except this doesn't change any of that. It actually radically increases athe amount of isk and minerals the larger entities can gain from upgrades. Even if you live in the worst space available getting money isn't the problem. The problem is that instead of being able to develop your area and have your players actually live and be active in 0.0 they will have to make the money somewhere else. Lvl 4 mission grinding alts are the way to go for most. This is how it worked before those upgrades were available and this is how it will work if you get screwed by this change. It's a big problem, since it actually removes people from 0.0 and makes them less active there. Inactive space is boring space. It's also bad for CCP since missioning is one of the most boring things in this game and people who are forced to do it on a constant basis for extended periods of time have a high tendency to leave the game. Anomaly farming is a bit more entertaining and you don't have to grind so long before you are able to lose ships again. Originally by: Hecatonis it will not remove the blob because you people refuse to remove it, but what CCP can do is make it harder to support those kinds of numbers. nul sec will still be a great income source, and some of the best income in the game, but it will become less controlled, and i am all for that. adapt or die You have to realize that this change will only make the huge blobber space even more better for gaining income. Like wastly more better as far as individual wallets are concerned and nerf the areas that is largely inhabited by smaller entities. The big entities already had the best space for income and the best moons to replace all losses, but now they will get the best upgrades for increased isk/mineral farming too. So basicly this ghance will further solify the position of the current big boys while at the same time nerf any newcomers, so they have even less of a change to challenge the status quo, and this change is supposed to bring about more constant fighting and help the new guys. I'm sure there will be fighting at first as the change ripples through EVE, but I don't see any more reason for sustained conflict between alliances and the new/little entities are getting hit to the head with a nerfbat. I'll bet, that if this change is the only one CCP makes, the final 0.0 will look very much as it does today, only with less people actually living in it. I just don't see how any of this will actually make the game any better, achieve any of the stated goals and it seems to go against the desire to make a more vibrant 0.0.
David Hassan	Posted - 2011.03.27 06:32:00 - [79] Not supported in any fasion. CCP Greyscale released a dev blog that many people strongly disagreed with. That same day (on his Friday night no less) The man took time to reply to the community pretty openly I think. It would be one thing if he entirely ignored the community, but he has not. Developers that are receptive is something that I would like to keep around this game, rather than boot them and take a chance with the next random dev they can import. IF you don't **** up every now and then, it means that you aren't doing anything.
Hecatonis Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.27 07:15:00 - [80] Edited by: Hecatonis on 27/03/2011 07:18:58 wow, a good post other then "durp you dumb" Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Ok. How is that relevant in any way. This change will not affect the security of 0.0 in any way. It just means a huge chunk of it just became worse to live in and the people who invested in developing those areas are royally screwed. Generally this will be the new/smaller entities. worst areas generally increase crime rates. the desperate do desperate things aka more combat less money also bring about smaller fast paced combat because you dont want to risk an all in move that cant be replaced CCPs goals are achieved, more fighting on a smaller scale Quote: Except this doesn't change any of that. It actually radically increases athe amount of isk and minerals the larger entities can gain from upgrades yes this is correct, but its also confines the wealth to smaller areas. to use this wealth to ether have to bring in more people to use the resource (high population density) or build bigger (higher tec) high population density generally increases crime rate thus CCP is doing what is intended and higher tec can be taken out by the n+1 principal. not what CCP is intending, but blobs are a fact of life as is Quote: It's a big problem, since it actually removes people from 0.0 and makes them less active there. this is where i have to disagree, if you care enough to find my location you will notice that i am in high sec, but that is not where i make my money. most of my income is from finding wormholes to nul sec space and clearing out a system fast and effectively. the big problem lately is that nul sec is too full, i have taken a massive hit in income because of it. with so many people living in a system full time instead of just passing through, my income has dropped a lot. having more empty systems means more places for me to clear out. believe me, these system are not barren empty wastelands, people like just strip them bare and leave without anyone being the wiser. nul sec is where i work, its just not where i live. in eve no space is wasted Quote: It's also bad for CCP since missioning is one of the most boring things in this game and people who are forced to do it on a constant basis for extended periods of time have a high tendency to leave the game. Anomaly farming is a bit more entertaining and you don't have to grind so long before you are able to lose ships again. you are doing it wrong then ;) to ninja a whole system under and alliance's nose is not only profitable, but so much fun as well. i will not comment on the last part because it seems to touch on the rest as a whole, sorry but i have to jump off to bed as its getting late. please comment away, you are one of the few rational/has a good point people that has a problem with this. edit: didnt proof the post, getting so sleepy, i hope i got all the errors __________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y.	Posted - 2011.03.27 07:57:00 - [81] A friend of mine saw all these tears and said she would love to play a game that causes this kind of drama, so she is starting an account as soon as the client is finished downloading. (she is hot too ) So the game losing you as a subscriber will not be an issue. Anyways, I know this is a bit awkward and all being so soon, but can she have your stuff?
krickettt Golden Orb Technology inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2011.03.27 08:05:00 - [82] All these tears excite me!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.27 08:15:00 - [83] Originally by: Hecatonis Edited by: Hecatonis on 27/03/2011 07:18:58 wow, a good post other then "durp you dumb" Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Ok. How is that relevant in any way. This change will not affect the security of 0.0 in any way. It just means a huge chunk of it just became worse to live in and the people who invested in developing those areas are royally screwed. Generally this will be the new/smaller entities. worst areas generally increase crime rates. the desperate do desperate things aka more combat less money also bring about smaller fast paced combat because you dont want to risk an all in move that cant be replaced CCPs goals are achieved, more fighting on a smaller scale Quote: Except this doesn't change any of that. It actually radically increases athe amount of isk and minerals the larger entities can gain from upgrades yes this is correct, but its also confines the wealth to smaller areas. to use this wealth to ether have to bring in more people to use the resource (high population density) or build bigger (higher tec) high population density generally increases crime rate thus CCP is doing what is intended and higher tec can be taken out by the n+1 principal. not what CCP is intending, but blobs are a fact of life as is Quote: It's a big problem, since it actually removes people from 0.0 and makes them less active there. this is where i have to disagree, if you care enough to find my location you will notice that i am in high sec, but that is not where i make my money. most of my income is from finding wormholes to nul sec space and clearing out a system fast and effectively. the big problem lately is that nul sec is too full, i have taken a massive hit in income because of it. with so many people living in a system full time instead of just passing through, my income has dropped a lot. having more empty systems means more places for me to clear out. believe me, these system are not barren empty wastelands, people like just strip them bare and leave without anyone being the wiser. nul sec is where i work, its just not where i live. in eve no space is wasted Quote: It's also bad for CCP since missioning is one of the most boring things in this game and people who are forced to do it on a constant basis for extended periods of time have a high tendency to leave the game. Anomaly farming is a bit more entertaining and you don't have to grind so long before you are able to lose ships again. you are doing it wrong then ;) to ninja a whole system under and alliance's nose is not only profitable, but so much fun as well. i will not comment on the last part because it seems to touch on the rest as a whole, sorry but i have to jump off to bed as its getting late. please comment away, you are one of the few rational/has a good point people that has a problem with this. edit: didnt proof the post, getting so sleepy, i hope i got all the errors except there is absolutely nothing to fight over in the "small scale" and if I want to do something desperate for isk I'm heading for Highsec, which has suicide ganking, trading, and mission running. trying to fleet up to oust the naptrains from their good systems just sounds like a losing proposition to me, and then maintaining a coalition to keep them out. and having 5-6 sanctums in a system at a time hardly does much to increase population density, it will support one or two more players at a time in that system. and anyways they can just dock/pos up to avoid conflict. the only way to really engage in combat is to afk cloak for long enough that they go about ratting and the surprise attack them. and the way you talk of ninjaing systems sounds like you are doing exploration, which only takes a few people a short time to clear out, which leads to people being less active there. as for anoms vs missions, both seem about equally entertaining to me. anoms seem a bit better as there is less back and forth.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.03.27 08:27:00 - [84] Basically this was a case of 'give candy to baby' in Dominion, 'take candy from baby' in the future, people are not going to like it. However, I think it's a good move. I don't see any solid counter argument from the OP as to why this is a bad, just a whine, as obviously a lot of peoples income is going to be hurt. Follow Flynn on Twitter
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.27 09:08:00 - [85] So if I understand this right, Greyscale is wanting to shake up nullsec. I'm all for it. On the other hand, they can't even allocate enough resources to fix the lagfest in nullsec. Perhaps, if the lagfest was fixed then conflict would spring anew? IDK.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.27 09:40:00 - [86] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/03/2011 09:40:21 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton except there is absolutely nothing to fight over in the "small scale" By your logic, there never has been. And yet we've always found something to fight over in low sec and 0.0. Man really now, an anom nerf isn't going to kill 0.0 despite what the whiners are crying about. And frankly, Eve NEEDS ** 0.0 regions. And Dominion really took that away. -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.03.27 09:41:00 - [87] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Liang Nuren stuff -Liang yes certainly some people are over reacting but if you want people to be out in nullsec you need to give them something to do. and there are other changes that imo could be better done to do that. providence was pretty much worthless for years and imo that was the only reason cva held onto it. Good point, other changes need to happen as well. When we excised CVA from Providence it was not because of the balancing of null sec value. Admittedly it didn't hurt, but we would have done it anyway. They provoked the wrong people, and that opened up incentive to relocate them. However, I agree that CVA held their space due to it being of relatively low worth compared to other null sec area's AND in comparison to high sec. The only thing that made it profitable for them was being organized. That kind of makes a point in favor of the new system though, if you think about it. It enables weaker entities (like CVA) to occupy space because the more powerful entities aren't interested in paying the upkeep on systems that are less than optimal. Once those weaker entities have grown in strength and numbers they will have a strong incentive to try and annex bits of their neighbors more profitable space (as CVA tried to do even though it really wasn't more profitable, it was just more space to expand into). You have to admit, holding even low/moderate quality space is a big recruitment draw. I'm also looking at the fact that even the lower quality null sec will still be more profitable than it used to be in the old days, and support a larger population... and also still compare favorably with high sec income. That and keeping in mind that the best space will really not be any more profitable than they are now (thus keeping them from getting to far out of whack) it should help to slow down the flood of ISK into the EVE economy. I think implementation needs to be looked at very closely, and some discussion needs to take place before the final details are finalized. I definitely do NOT think that CCP Greyscale should be chastised for writing a blog proposing the changes. The basic idea is sound. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Dazram Two	Posted - 2011.03.27 09:55:00 - [88] That's harsh dude. What if he's got a family he has to take care of? Lighten up, geez.
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.03.27 10:01:00 - [89] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 27/03/2011 10:01:28 Originally by: Ranger 1 However, I agree that CVA held their space due to it being of relatively low worth compared to other null sec area's AND in comparison to high sec. The only thing that made it profitable for them was being organized. they had rather nice supercap production (for external selling) going on in Providence to make money.
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.27 10:03:00 - [90] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/03/2011 09:40:21 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton except there is absolutely nothing to fight over in the "small scale" By your logic, there never has been. And yet we've always found something to fight over in low sec and 0.0. Man really now, an anom nerf isn't going to kill 0.0 despite what the whiners are crying about. And frankly, Eve NEEDS ** 0.0 regions. And Dominion really took that away. -Liang Exactly. Honestly the hysteria is as ludicrious as it is predictable. Just FYI to the tear-fountains: I was making billions a week in Pure Blind without the benefit of a single upgraded system. While red to the inhabitants. Even if CCP removed upgrades completely, that region would still be a money-tree. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always** to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.27 10:23:00 - [91] NC and NC alts raging, MUST READ DEVBLOG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, death by DRF and death by CCP . Im not Bismaru, im better!

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.27 10:29:00 - [92] Thread locked. Hiring or firing has not, and never will be, decided on the forums. Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

BlackSparrowHawk	Posted - 2011.03.27 10:33:00 - [93] All the people raging is proof that there are so many carebears disguised as pvpers/pirates. Who evers Raging about this change should be kicked out of 0.0. I've been in situation where i've given a shout out in corp for roams and they all were busy doing sanctums....5 hours later the same thing just with different people. Now hopefully we'll see 0.0 inhabitants ACTUALLY valuing isk. Instead of going to fleet fights to see a spam of 100-200 Cap ships...

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