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Mineral Content of High Sec

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Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:53:00 - [1] CCP: I attempted to have my dislike addressed by a gm but when my questions were not answered, I felt its time to bring my opinion to open forum in the chance that my questions will get answered. Here is the bulk of my closed petition: This game seems to be directed by public opinion so in my growing fustration I want to get my opinion out. I hope there are many more that agree with me to the point that you will change, correction return the game back to a previous standards. I will planning to post this message in the forums as well as petition. I hope to be able to have a conversation with a GM about this to understand why the game was changed as well as drum up support for change to Eve. To help understand my point of view, let me tell a small bit about myself and my experience with Eve. I was invited to play Eve by a friend at work, who happen to part of a mining corp, after playing a several MMOs this was my first scifi based. In one of my discussions with my friend about joining is the "requirement to raid and pvp", he explained due to how complex the game was that did not exist in Eve. That was the main selling point for me to join this game. My first exposure to Eve was mining, since I love doing tradeskills it seems like a natural start and even to this day I love to mine. From 1.0 belts to 0.0 and WH I've mined in the all. But what I really enjoyed was the high sec belts. I could relax and focus on how to mine more effient. This led to me purchasing a second account so I spend more time mining. The changes that CCP made to high sec astroids, amount of minerals they yield, at first I really didn't see a change but I have noticed more and more that it takes several belts of mining one type mineral to fill an orca. Is it the intent of CCP to throw all players to low/null sec after a certain point? I personally detest PvP greatly, and make all strides that I can to avoid doing and recieving attacks. I have lost ships and been podded so I know what's it like to be killed by another player. I'm not asking to adjust pvp rules or punish pvp more severally but I do ask can you make high sec worth mining like it was less than 6 to 8 months ago. That way when I get ganked by someone that thinks it's funny to destroy other folks stuff for no reason I can at least afford another mining ship so i can get back to mining. Most minerals for manufactoring are generated from high sec, so to penalize high sec miners because we like to work with some security is rediculous. On top of that you're more likely to have a high sec miner with multiple accounts versus a pvper, so why should I pay more or pay at all to have someone come up to kill me in a game?[b]If possible could I get an answer to why CCP is forcing miners to low/null sec and is it possible to readjust mineral content of high sec? Respectfully, Jenkx
Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.03.29 21:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Kara Sharalien on 29/03/2011 21:58:30 Originally by: Jenkx Is it the intent of CCP to throw all players to low/null sec after a certain point? Yes. Originally by: Jenkx I personally detest PvP greatly, and make all strides that I can to avoid doing and recieving attacks. Then you need to do something, and then make a decision. First, accept that you are in the wrong game. Eve is a massivly multiplayer PvP game. If you want to solo PvE and nothing else, you probably shouldn't be here. Now, choose one of the following options: 1. Stay in highsec and solo PvE at lower rewards 2. Go to low/null sec and learn to like PvP 3. Go to low/null sec and pay someone to PvP for you
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:00:00 - [3] As a miner by profession (though I am about to leave mining for now by the looks of it), I fail to see the problem. Hisec is teeming with roids, if you have to go several belts to fill an Orca, you are simply in the wrong place - find a different system (the 20+ belts ones are bound to be overrun), move around, hisec is enormous.
sableye principle of motion	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:08:00 - [4] of course if you hammer the same system it will get lower, just move system and then come back and complain when there is nothing left to mine I remember a few years back they never generated new asteroids for a week or so (bug) and you could still find new asteroids by travelling a few jumps and the forums filled up with people saying nothing was left. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:12:00 - [5] Kara, If it was only a PVP game there would be no highsec, but you are missing the point of my message. It is not to mess with pvp rules at all, it's to return highsec back to what it use to be.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Jenkx Kara, If it was only a PVP game there would be no highsec, but you are missing the point of my message. It is not to mess with pvp rules at all, it's to return highsec back to what it use to be. I believe your reasoning is wrong - hisec is not in any way meant to insulate people from PvP. If that was the intended feature, there would be a full weapons lock in hisec. As it is, the only difference, PvP wise, between hisec, low and nullsec is that you will get concorded for killing somebody in hisec. PvP is still very much present.
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:20:00 - [7] Good point =D
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:22:00 - [8] You also fail to grasp that not all PvP is Ships Pewpewing each other.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Zhou Wuwang on 29/03/2011 22:26:58 A misconception among folks who stay in Empire space is that 0.0 is unsafe and requires a lot of pvp. Far from it. Null sec can be some of the safest space to live in Eve. All major alliances need industrial characters and mining for the heavy industry that takes place in null sec. You (and your friend(s)) need to find a better corporation.
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Lothros Andastar You also fail to grasp that not all PvP is Ships Pewpewing each other. My use of PvP is blanket term for players destroying other players ships,pos, podds and griefing for what ever reason the person decides to do it. But again, this post has nothing to do with PvPing, its about high sec mineral content and the other questions I'm trying to get answered by CCP.

Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Burnharder on 29/03/2011 22:41:08 Not sure if this is a troll or not . My experience with mining high sec (0.5+) is that certain systems have belts that are pretty full, and that it would take 4 or 5 rigged and expanded Orca loads to totally clear out (of all roids). Actually there are plenty out there if you look. I occasionally take my Orca and Hulks for a spin and strip an entire belt. There's really no point in mining .7 or over, of course. You also sometimes get large gravs pop up that will give you 3 or 4 Orca-loads of low sec roids like Hemorphite (not often, but you do get them). So you know, if you're a high-sec miner, I suggest you get surveying, move away from hubs/high traffic systems/missioning systems and go someplace that does not get a large amount of traffic. The best systems are 0.5/0.6 without stations. Not many people bother mining those, so they're often full.
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Burnharder Edited by: Burnharder on 29/03/2011 22:41:08 My experience with mining high sec (0.5+) is that certain systems have belts that are pretty full, and that it would take 4 or 5 rigged and expanded Orca loads to totally clear out (of all roids). It's true in a 0.6 system as well.
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:48:00 - [13] If CCP only decreased the mineral content of the systems I currently mine, then I would have no problem moving or even suggesting to my corp CEO about all of moving. But CCP decreased all the mineral of content of all high sec systems. So the problem is ever where.
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Jenkx If CCP only decreased the mineral content of the systems I currently mine, then I would have no problem moving or even suggesting to my corp CEO about all of moving. But CCP decreased all the mineral of content of all high sec systems. So the problem is ever where. I still don't understand your problem. There are plenty of asteroids out there!
randomname4me	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:52:00 - [15] PVP is ingrained into every aspect of this game. Mining in high security space is no exception. the lack of good asteroids in the area you live is just an indication that you have been beaten at PVP. Find a new area or find a new game. Petition\|Successful\|Reimbursement\|Lag Pick 3
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Jenkx CCP: I fear all risk. I know nothing about pvp. I think I'm special. I think I should be catered to. Why aren't the bars of my baby pen made of solid gold? Respectfully, Jenkx fyp
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:01:00 - [17] Finding a good higsec spot should be your test now. Find a system where you can frequently scan down kernite and spud gravity sites. I've done this before and found it to be the only real way to make money mining in high sec.
Doddy Excidium.	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:01:00 - [18] er stop mining in mined out systems?
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:02:00 - [19] I really hope that I have not came across an rude to anyone. The point of this post is try to get an answer from CCP and on top of that try to return the mineral amount content of highsec to what it was.
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:08:00 - [20] But you haven't answered my points... or are you having trouble finding good botting sites?

SayTT	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:09:00 - [21] I would like to have a more complex system when mining to eliminate macros, thus giving a higher gain to the ones who do put in the time to support the market. I think ccp should spend some time working on ships/mods that improve mining aswell One thing I would like to see aswell would be grav sites thats HARD to scan in LS/HS and well guarded, but holds great ore finds. Seeing as most of the lowsec ore's are not worth the trouble atm. Things like that would probobly even out the ISK/task thing, seeing as you pointed out that a dedicated lowsec mission runner or just a pirate pvp;er can make more money than a miner with no sweat. The best thing would be to make mining profitable to players who are in a dedicated corp, who work togather. It should mirror the rest of eve; one guy running a lvl 4 mission should get ~ the same as a lone miner at high sp/mining gear. A corp dedicated to mining shouls be able to makes as much as a group dedicated to pvp/pirate etc.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:13:00 - [22] WAR DEC TIMEZ!!!!!
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Jenkx I really hope that I have not came across an rude to anyone. The point of this post is try to get an answer from CCP and on top of that try to return the mineral amount content of highsec to what it was. I just skimmed through the last few patch's notes... it doesn't look like they nerfed anything with regards to high-sec 'roids (could be wrong about that though). That said, you are aware that the "respawn rate" for asteroids is "dynamic" and that amount of respawned rocks shifts over from "overmined" systems to less mined systems... right? Like others said, change your base of operations to someplace a few systems over... preferably some backwater high-sec system that doesn't see much traffic/is out of the way. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:33:00 - [24] Yes, I do know about that. The decrease in mineral content has some months ago.
sableye principle of motion	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Jenkx Yes, I do know about that. The decrease in mineral content has some months ago. did it coincide with the time you started raping the system? ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
Jenkx	Posted - 2011.03.29 23:44:00 - [26] I wish I that accomplished as a miner. No, I had my orca before CCP made the changes.
Nivalis Dhal	Posted - 2011.03.30 00:29:00 - [27] My corp runs mining ops, we pull in three to four orca's worth or ore a day, we do this in 5 neighboring systems with a dedicated hauler, we've never run out of ore, we've never run out of ore, we just monitor what belts we drain and yes we suck those rocks down to less then a pull, and we rotate our belts. It's like crop rotation. Heck I imagine one hulk pilot would be keeping their holds full out of one system. As to multiple accounts not needed for PvP, the Solo PvPer is little more then a target in this game, they make friends or multi-box, just like the miners. Our ops are not one man ops, our orca pilot is also a command ship pilot so they don't suffer in any way being an orca pilot can can do PvP and PvE, yes one of our Hulk pilots is an ALT of our mission running/hauler pilot. So our mining ops only contain one ALT and that person did it because they wanted a mission runner and a dedicated industrialist, not because the game required it. We just found industrialists and grouped up and eating our little chunk of high-sec. Like all MMOs, make friends or multi-box or accept less ISK/Hour. The big sharks in this game do not do it solo. Of course one of our Ex-corp mates who is still friends with our corp, is a massive industrialist, controls a small market, has never mined a day in his life and has a net worth greater then our corp. As to high sec being penalized just learn to rotate your belts like crops and don't try to compete for belts. There is enough ore in enough high sec systems to fuel this game. If another mining op moves in, we just migrate and haul our ore to our base. I think the one thing mining ops need to be successful is dedicated haulers which so many forget about.
SayTT	Posted - 2011.03.30 01:01:00 - [28] Edited by: SayTT on 30/03/2011 01:02:21 Originally by: Nivalis Dhal My corp runs mining ops, we pull in three to four orca's worth or ore a day, we do this in 5 neighboring systems with a dedicated hauler, we've never run out of ore, we've never run out of ore, we just monitor what belts we drain and yes we suck those rocks down to less then a pull, and we rotate our belts. It's like crop rotation. Heck I imagine one hulk pilot would be keeping their holds full out of one system. As to multiple accounts not needed for PvP, the Solo PvPer is little more then a target in this game, they make friends or multi-box, just like the miners. Our ops are not one man ops, our orca pilot is also a command ship pilot so they don't suffer in any way being an orca pilot can can do PvP and PvE, yes one of our Hulk pilots is an ALT of our mission running/hauler pilot. So our mining ops only contain one ALT and that person did it because they wanted a mission runner and a dedicated industrialist, not because the game required it. We just found industrialists and grouped up and eating our little chunk of high-sec. Like all MMOs, make friends or multi-box or accept less ISK/Hour. The big sharks in this game do not do it solo. Of course one of our Ex-corp mates who is still friends with our corp, is a massive industrialist, controls a small market, has never mined a day in his life and has a net worth greater then our corp. As to high sec being penalized just learn to rotate your belts like crops and don't try to compete for belts. There is enough ore in enough high sec systems to fuel this game. If another mining op moves in, we just migrate and haul our ore to our base. I think the one thing mining ops need to be successful is dedicated haulers which so many forget about. Oh well, you seem to present an ideal situation that probobly doesn't exist in the game, just in theory, not in highsec atleast (or your corp have a constilation in hs for your own). You can't monitor and count on your system when the masses of people (the locals) who you do not have control over, mine as they please. A system like this do work "around" the diminishing returns of respawn ore, but only if you are the only actor in the play
Nivalis Dhal	Posted - 2011.03.30 01:18:00 - [29] Originally by: SayTT Edited by: SayTT on 30/03/2011 01:02:21 Oh well, you seem to present an ideal situation that probobly doesn't exist in the game, just in theory, not in highsec atleast (or your corp have a constilation in hs for your own). You can't monitor and count on your system when the masses of people (the locals) who you do not have control over, mine as they please. A system like this do work "around" the diminishing returns of respawn ore, but only if you are the only actor in the play You are right we are not the only people in this dance, but we are in an out of the way place, with 5 systems .5-.7 around our refining hub. Besides our notes we also shoot out a guy in a fast frigate and a survey scanner to book mark warp in spots at belts with rich roids. Trust me my crop takes in that much ore in a day and we've not depleted our systems belts. Belt rotation is like crop rotation and like I say, should another mining op move in (And it takes an op, not a couple of hulk pilots to disrupt us) we just flit out 2 jumps from our refining hub instead of one. Remember the key, "Work smarter not harder."
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.03.30 01:23:00 - [30] You must be in a crap system. My (as in this character, not my other ones)corp has many mining ops each month. We go around to certain systems, and most of the time we need 2 orcas to deal with the ore amounts (plus 3 haulers to help take stuff back to our manufacturing system). One belt can easily fill an orca, especially if you are willing to mine stuff other than the most valuable ores.



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