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LEFT CORP TO AVOID WARDEC... SO BANNED??!?

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IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:45:00 - [1] So im not sure if some of you know this but apparently if you leave your corporation (no matter if your corp dec'd another or you got dec'd by a corp) its a bannable offence? " Sent - 3/24/2011 11:47:00 PM Hi, This mail is sent to inform you that your EVE Online account *****, has been suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM regarding the use of Corp-hopping to avoid war decs. You have already been warned for this behavior and still you use the same tactic. The account has therefore been banned for three days. Please note that further violations of this sort will eventually lead to a permanent account ban. If you feel the ban is not justified or you have something to add to the matter, please reply to this mail and we will respond as soon as possible. Regards, GM Stardust EVE Online Customer Support" My response can be seen here If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or 0rphanage (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). Not to make this post insanely long but below is a petition (also put in by the banned character months ago) responded from by a GM. 2010.07.22 21:01:00 * Hello, My corp has dec'd Rookie Empire (alliance) twice. First time as a corp, second time as an alliance. Each time, their members leave and join an alt corp to avoid the war dec. I thought this was considered an exploit when it happens more than once and the obvious intention is to avoid a war dec by corp hopping. As soon as the war was over last time, they rejoined their corp in the alliance. An example of one of these characters is: col sanders420 Thanks for looking into this 2010.07.25 19:06:00 GM Ocelot Hello, Thank you for the information. unfortunately there is little we can do in this case as joining and leaving a corporation is not considered an exploit. Even if it is done to avoid wars. Players are free to come and go as they please and if they do not wise to fight they can leave the corporation. Best regards, GM Ocelot The EVE Online Customer Support Team So EVE please tell me which GM to believe because I am lost here. If anything that char/person has canceled all of his accounts because CCP is jerking him around banning characters and making up their own rules as they go along... How can anyone in EVE or this person follow CCP's guidelines without CCP knowing what their own rules are?** The only thing i ask is that a GM respond to this post or contact my character in eve to resolve the matter by removing this ban as a past offense and possibly if he isn't too stubborn an apology?
Neo Omni Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Neo Omni on 30/03/2011 22:51:47 Are you serious? You can get banned for corp hopping to avoid wardecs? Sounds like a favorable game mechanic to me. Sounds almost like CCP is telling you how to play the game.
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:52:00 - [3] Just keep doing it. They have said repeatedly on the forums that it is not an exploit or bannable offense. I don't know Stardust and he or she might be a fine person who is just unaware of the rules. Escalate it to a higher level GM.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:52:00 - [4] Don't bring your GM issues to the forums, you'll score yourself a forum ban too. Follow the process for escalation as per the EVE site. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
The PitBoss Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:53:00 - [5] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA ... If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or 0rphanage (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned ... If soliciting your tears is bannable ... please by all means .. ban us ... OTHERWISE ... Please leave us out of this UNTIL you have a leg to stand on Thank-You, The Pitboss Signatures by: Kalen Vox
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:55:00 - [6] First off, if you want to keep this thread open, or if you want the OP to still make any sense whatsoever after a forum mod comes through here, you'd better remove all the copypasta of GM conversations (the mods will do that for you and some of the other text might go away with it too) and replace it with a very rough summary of what was said (as long as it's just paraphrasing, it's ok-ish). Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA So EVE please tell me which GM to believe because I am lost here. Both, and neither. For the time being, for each individual situation, ALWAYS listen to the GM in charge for that PARTICULAR situation. Not listening to warnings (even if they contradict what another GM has said in the past) will lead to exactly what happened to you. However, for the long run, challenge everything. Not all GMs are created equal... and some policies are left semi-interpretable... if they even exist written down somewhere). My advice would be to reopen both, mention the identifying details of the other one in each, and ask escalation to a higher GM level. Also... it's a 3-day ban. It will almost certainly expire BEFORE the situation will get solved. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.30 22:59:00 - [7] I know that if I was banned from the game I would run to the forums and break rules in hope of a forum ban also. Also IBTL. .
xXxSatsujinxXx Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:00:00 - [8] In before you get snipped. I reported a guy for this a couple of weeks ago, he leaves his corp pretty much weekly, for 12 or so hours at a time to use his freighter. I was told by the GM that it was not an offense. Soooooooo, unlucky... clearly the rules were moody that day...
Neo Omni Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Cipher Jones I know that if I was banned from the game I would run to the forums and break rules in hope of a forum ban also. Also IBTL. Then in turn ban CCP from your bank account as well. So who actually loses here? touche.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:02:00 - [10] Originally by: xXxSatsujinxXx In before you get snipped. I reported a guy for this a couple of weeks ago, he leaves his corp pretty much weekly, for 12 or so hours at a time to use his freighter. I was told by the GM that it was not an offense. Soooooooo, unlucky... clearly the rules were moody that day... Inconsistency is rife here, it's laughable.
Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:10:00 - [11] OP is the kind of sucky game mechanics abuser that wardec with a alt in a one man corp, that once his covops alt found a tasty target missioning joins the corp and quickly gank the WT, then leave corp to avoid retribution. By his own admission he even at least once did it without a session change so he would not appear as a war target in local nor on his victim overview, and already got warned for that. I for one, hope that he'll catch testicular cancer IRL, oh wait, not possible. There are no macrominers in EVE
Montgomery Crabapple	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Lubomir Penev OP is the kind of sucky game mechanics abuser that wardec with a alt in a one man corp, that once his covops alt found a tasty target missioning joins the corp and quickly gank the WT, then leave corp to avoid retribution. By his own admission he even at least once did it without a session change so he would not appear as a war target in local nor on his victim overview, and already got warned for that. Yup, seen this so many times. Still, love forum whines for exploiting game mechanics almost as much as I love forum whines for bot bans.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:17:00 - [13] the real question is how much pointing and laughing at the OP can we get IN BEFORE THE LOCK? what a marooon --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Herp McDerpington	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:17:00 - [14] Just a heads up but the same GM has been up to some crazy antics today in other places too: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489853
yumike	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:18:00 - [15] its been said countless times that it is an actionable thing. If you leave a corp thats at war, thats fine. If you joined a new corp and they dec that one too, And the dec was meant for you (Aka you started it likely verbally and now are copping out are usually how these go.) then you again drop that one. Then yes it is actionable.. Obviously. And good OP. i'm glad you learned your lesson.
Petrov Kreigt Caldari Asteroids Civil Rights Union D'Haran Empire.	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:18:00 - [16] I guess Brybry was so good at the pew pews that he was silenced D: The ever evolving rulebook of eve never ceases to amaze still <3 double standards
DurrHurrDurr	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:19:00 - [17] "Thank you for the information. unfortunately there is little we can do in this case as joining and leaving a corporation is not considered an exploit. Even if it is done to avoid wars. Players are free to come and go as they please and if they do not wise to fight they can leave the corporation. Best regards, GM Ocelot The EVE Online Customer Support Team" Stardust you are a terrible GM. Please learn the rules you are responsible for enforcing.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Montgomery Crabapple Originally by: Lubomir Penev OP is the kind of sucky game mechanics abuser that wardec with a alt in a one man corp, that once his covops alt found a tasty target missioning joins the corp and quickly gank the WT, then leave corp to avoid retribution. By his own admission he even at least once did it without a session change so he would not appear as a war target in local nor on his victim overview, and already got warned for that. Yup, seen this so many times. Still, love forum whines for exploiting game mechanics almost as much as I love forum whines for bot bans. Being warned for aggressing without a sesion change seem to me like a completely different offense than leaving a corp to avoid a war dec. How is a warning for aggressing without a session change the same as a warning for leaving a corp to avoid a dec? I believe that is the point the op is making. Perhaps a warning should have been received instead of a ban and perhaps the GM's should all get on the same page as far as rules are concerned. Inconsistency = unprofessional.
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:20:00 - [19] I'm not biting. I know you've written with sincerity, I think you're just pulling my leg. What next, getting rid of insanity ECM?
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Lubomir Penev OP is the kind of sucky game mechanics abuser that wardec with a alt in a one man corp, that once his covops alt found a tasty target missioning joins the corp and quickly gank the WT, then leave corp to avoid retribution. By his own admission he even at least once did it without a session change so he would not appear as a war target in local nor on his victim overview, and already got warned for that. I for one, hope that he'll catch testicular cancer IRL, oh wait, not possible. Cool bro... so in the petition the banned user stated that he followed the rules he was told was not an exploit by joining corp then session changing by jumping through a gate. Lame method or not, he followed the GM's rules that were laid forth. For instance if you ask a GM "Is it ok to leave corp during a wardec while being camped in station so i can undock and leave safely" and he says "Sure you can leave corp right now and it wouldn't violate any rules" You then leave corp and undock past your former wt's and fly away safely (btw this has happened plenty of times) Then all of a suddenly your former wartargets petition you for leaving corp to avoid a war dec and you then become banned by a different GM for reasons of "Leaving your corp to avoid a war dec" Is that right? Btw on another note, ppl in eve corp hop and leave corp to avoid war decs all of the time, they also log off in freighters when they jump into a gate camp in order to avoid being killed because they log off while cloaked so they disappear within 30 seconds and therefore cannot be killed. People do the cloak warp trick.... to avoid war targets. All you bears use the game mechanics to their full advantage to avoid flashies but its not ok if someone to take advantage of the mechanics to kill ppl who run from decs all their EVE life. Its a shame.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:28:00 - [21] Originally by: yumike its been said countless times that it is an actionable thing. If you leave a corp thats at war, thats fine. If you joined a new corp and they dec that one too, And the dec was meant for you (Aka you started it likely verbally and now are copping out are usually how these go.) then you again drop that one. Then yes it is actionable.. Obviously. And good OP. i'm glad you learned your lesson. Bro... the banned member only had outgoing decs not incoming, not to mention there were still characters in that corp when he left. Good job reading.
Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:32:00 - [22] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA All you bears use the game mechanics to their full advantage to avoid flashies but its not ok if someone to take advantage of the mechanics to kill ppl who run from decs all their EVE life. I have hundreds of empire kills of war targets. Never used corp hoping tricks. You just suck. Big time. There are no macrominers in EVE
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA All you bears use the game mechanics to their full advantage to avoid flashies but its not ok if someone to take advantage of the mechanics to kill ppl who run from decs all their EVE life. I have hundreds of empire kills of war targets. Never used corp hoping tricks. You just suck. Big time. GJ bro, click the 'x' at the upper right corner of your browser to receive a cookie, you've earned it.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:37:00 - [24] griefer tears = best tears
Cacnea	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:38:00 - [25] Originally by: yumike its been said countless times that it is an actionable thing. First time I've heard of this. Originally by: yumike If you leave a corp thats at war, thats fine. If you joined a new corp and they dec that one too, And the dec was meant for you (Aka you started it likely verbally and now are copping out are usually how these go.) then you again drop that one. Then yes it is actionable.. Obviously. I'm sure continual wardecs on a specific person is borderline, if not full, harassment. Originally by: yumike And good OP. i'm glad you learned your lesson. Did you even read the OP's post? Oh, you did? 3/10, you had me going there for a while.
Xioling Soung	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:39:00 - [26] Edited by: Xioling Soung on 30/03/2011 23:39:48 I guess he was so good at the pew pews that he was silenced D: The ever evolving rulebook of eve never ceases to amaze still <3 double standards
rock crawlermne	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:41:00 - [27] So, lemme get this right OP. PLease correct me if I'm wrong. You war dec'd a crop w/a 1 man alt. Found a memeber of that corp w/ your main...quickly joined the 1 man alt corp, ganked a unsuspecting target before the game mechanics could catch up and alert him that you're an enemy...and then left the 1man alt corp to avoid retribution. How is this not an exploit of the system? GM stardust discovered this, and banned you for it. So you come here and post just enough to let us know YOUR side of the story, and mislead us in morally backing you up. If that is true, then you sir, are the worst kind of scum. I ninja salvage/loot...I openly steel from mission runners, and I gurarentee people will respect me more then you. I read in your link that you have '7 other accounts' that you will cancle if this doens't get resolved. I'll bet money that 5 of those accounts are bots. I wont tell you to leave...becuase that's againts the rules and I wont stoop to that level....but should you quit, no tears will be shead.
Xioling Soung	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:43:00 - [28] Originally by: rock crawlermne So, lemme get this right OP. PLease correct me if I'm wrong. You war dec'd a crop w/a 1 man alt. Found a memeber of that corp w/ your main...quickly joined the 1 man alt corp, ganked a unsuspecting target before the game mechanics could catch up and alert him that you're an enemy...and then left the 1man alt corp to avoid retribution. How is this not an exploit of the system? GM stardust discovered this, and banned you for it. So you come here and post just enough to let us know YOUR side of the story, and mislead us in morally backing you up. If that is true, then you sir, are the worst kind of scum. I ninja salvage/loot...I openly steel from mission runners, and I gurarentee people will respect me more then you. I read in your link that you have '7 other accounts' that you will cancle if this doens't get resolved. I'll bet money that 5 of those accounts are bots. I wont tell you to leave...becuase that's againts the rules and I wont stoop to that level....but should you quit, no tears will be shead. Bro... posting reams of nonsense before thinking or even having a clue... best idea ever C/D?
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:49:00 - [29] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA For instance if you ask a GM "Is it ok to leave corp during a wardec while being camped in station so i can undock and leave safely" and he says "Sure you can leave corp right now and it wouldn't violate any rules" You then leave corp and undock past your former wt's and fly away safely (btw this has happened plenty of times) Those people don't rejoin the corp they just left if they happen to find a juicy target. They were griefed out of corp, success, victory. Quote: Then all of a suddenly your former wartargets petition you for leaving corp to avoid a war dec and you then become banned by a different GM for reasons of "Leaving your corp to avoid a war dec" Is that right? Yes. You look like a kid that think he's very smart but that is actually too dumb to make the difference between the spirit and the letter of the law, or actually you do and have such a superiority complex that you think you're the only one... If you think you have ground to cry, go read the EULA, they can ban you for no other reasons than "they felt like it". Also shopping for the answer you'd like to hear with an oriented question is quite easy, GMs aren't usually shining stars of intellectual brilliance (until you get to a senior GM where they are usually quite decent). Quote: Btw on another note, ppl in eve corp hop and leave corp to avoid war decs all of the time, they also log off in freighters when they jump into a gate camp in order to avoid being killed because they log off while cloaked so they disappear within 30 seconds and therefore cannot be killed. People do the cloak warp trick.... to avoid war targets. Only the logging off under gate cloak is borderline exploit in what you said, but as CCP can't reliably make the difference between a genuine disconnect/grid load crash and a logoff they can't really act on it, in practice for normal people leaving corp under wardec is perfectly fine as long as they don't rejoin as soon as they find an afk hauler belonging to their former WTs... Quote: All you bears use the game mechanics to their full advantage to avoid flashies but its not ok if someone to take advantage of the mechanics to kill ppl who run from decs all their EVE life. Its a shame. I'm not quite sure you know who you're talking about, speaking of a few people that answered that thread. If you wanna gank bears, wardec them, and stick to your damn corp. Hundreds of people are successfully farming bears without the need to play with shifty corp hoping mechanics, what about you man up and start sucking less?
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:50:00 - [30] Originally by: yumike its been said countless times that it is an actionable thing. If by "it's be said countless times that it is an actionable thing" you mean it's been said countless times that it is not an actionable thing, then you would be right. Otherwise, you are wrong. CCP has said that corp hoping to avoid war decs is actually allowed.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:51:00 - [31] Originally by: rock crawlermne So, lemme get this right OP. PLease correct me if I'm wrong. You war dec'd a crop w/a 1 man alt. Found a memeber of that corp w/ your main...quickly joined the 1 man alt corp, ganked a unsuspecting target before the game mechanics could catch up and alert him that you're an enemy...and then left the 1man alt corp to avoid retribution. How is this not an exploit of the system? GM stardust discovered this, and banned you for it. So you come here and post just enough to let us know YOUR side of the story, and mislead us in morally backing you up. If that is true, then you sir, are the worst kind of scum. I ninja salvage/loot...I openly steel from mission runners, and I gurarentee people will respect me more then you. I read in your link that you have '7 other accounts' that you will cancle if this doens't get resolved. I'll bet money that 5 of those accounts are bots. I wont tell you to leave...becuase that's againts the rules and I wont stoop to that level....but should you quit, no tears will be shead. Bro... Keep reading the OP until you understand it then come back and post. right now its like me saying "I had my dog euthanized" and you coming back with the response "YOU SHOT YOUR DOG! YOU'RE A TERRIBLE MAN" See whats wrong there?
Nuniki Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:52:00 - [32] Edited by: Nuniki on 30/03/2011 23:55:13 People still seem pretty fuzzy on the whole "when is using the join/leave function of a corporation at WAR a reportable offense?" Good (or rather, neutral): Your corp gets wardecked. You do not wish to fight. You leave the corp. You may do this as much as humanly possible. Bad: You exploit wartarget flagging mechanics. Example? Corp A and B are at war, you are currently not in Corp A but are waiting to have your application accepted when the moment is right, when Corp B engages thinking they have the upperhand (and then suddenly 2-3 people instantly join corp A who are on the gate/belt with them). It's my understanding that THIS is the abuse of corporation wardecking that people get suspended for. Edit: Oh, forgot the obligatory "nobody cares" and "don't post about GM discussions on the forums".
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:54:00 - [33] Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 30/03/2011 23:54:41 Did you per chance do this Hop-Surprise! to any of the shipsofeve allied corporations? The GMs affiliated with shipsofeve are kinda harsh tbh when it comes to tinkering with their mates.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:58:00 - [34] The OP is doing the following, Wardec a corporation/alliance with an alt which is part of a 1 man corp, he then keeps that alt logged off so the alliance thinks nothing of it while his second neutral alt is scouting and trying to find a juicy target, when it's found, his main puts in an application to his 1 man alt corporation, then warps to mission/belt/whatever, then accepts it, and hes able to kill people completely unaware of him in local or on the overview, since it doesn't update unless you make a system change. Thats an exploit and not ok. You can leave a corp when you want if you don't like war, you can't immediately rejoin it, kill someone, then immediately leave though. ---
Jaci Johanna	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:59:00 - [35] Originally by: Nuniki Bad: You exploit wartarget flagging mechanics. Example? Corp A and B are at war, you are currently not in Corp A but are waiting to have your application accepted when the moment is right, when Corp B engages thinking they have the upperhand (and then suddenly 2-3 people instantly join corp A who are on the gate/belt with them). It's my understanding that THIS is the abuse of corporation wardecking that people get suspended for. Yeah. This is why I'm hesitant to jump all over the GM. OP could have pulled some asshat move for all we know.
Avrilicious	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:59:00 - [36] Originally by: rock crawlermne So, lemme get this right OP. PLease correct me if I'm wrong. Lets do this. Originally by: rock crawlermne You war dec'd a crop w/a 1 man alt. Yes, he did. Originally by: rock crawlermne Found a memeber of that corp w/ your main...quickly joined the 1 man alt corp, ganked a unsuspecting target I would assume so. Originally by: rock crawlermne before the game mechanics could catch up and alert him that you're an enemy... False, if you actually read the OP's post, he specified that he did indeed wait through a session change. Originally by: rock crawlermne and then left the 1man alt corp to avoid retribution. How is this not an exploit of the system? This is not an exploit. The standing precedent states that it is okay to leave a corp to avoid a wardec. Originally by: rock crawlermne GM stardust discovered this, and banned you for it. So you come here and post just enough to let us know YOUR side of the story, and mislead us in morally backing you up. GM Stardust discovered that the OP did leave his alt corp so that he would not get attacked by his wartargets, but as stated before, that is not a bannable offense. I believe that the OP has stated the full story and has not bent it in any way. The only thing he could have done that would have been a bannable offense would to shoot prior to waiting for a complete session change. Since the OP has been adamant that he did indeed wait through it, we can imply that the OP did not partake in any bannable actions. Originally by: rock crawlermne If that is true, then you sir, are the worst kind of scum. I ninja salvage/loot...I openly steel from mission runners, and I gurarentee people will respect me more then you. I read in your link that you have '7 other accounts' that you will cancle if this doens't get resolved. I'll bet money that 5 of those accounts are bots. I have lots of honor sir. In fact, my mining lazors are preloaded with honor mining crystals. Originally by: rock crawlermne I wont tell you to leave...becuase that's againts the rules and I wont stoop to that level....but should you quit, no tears will be shead. I will cry. A lot.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:00:00 - [37] Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not.
rock crawlermne	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:01:00 - [38] Edited by: rock crawlermne on 31/03/2011 00:03:17 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Bro... Keep reading the OP until you understand it then come back and post. right now its like me saying "I had my dog euthanized" and you coming back with the response "YOU SHOT YOUR DOG! YOU'RE A TERRIBLE MAN" See whats wrong there? LOL funny analogy. I don't think OP is telling all of the story. I think he abused the leave/join mechanic and got banned for it. Time will tell. EDIT: IF I'm incorrect in my assumptions, then I apologies for my offense and clearly you have been wronged.
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Nuniki Bad: You exploit wartarget flagging mechanics. Example? Corp A and B are at war, you are currently not in Corp A but are waiting to have your application accepted when the moment is right, when Corp B engages thinking they have the upperhand (and then suddenly 2-3 people instantly join corp A who are on the gate/belt with them). It's my understanding that THIS is the abuse of corporation wardecking that people get suspended for. In his case that's that, questionable behavior but not actually bannable, then leaving immediately so he can haul loot from the comfort of a NPC corp. Joining a war late is ok, leaving immediately is what he got his tempban for. He's a no risk taken PvPer, on par with station camper with hordes of NPC corp logistics alt, or lowsec station camper that will drop their ship in a carrier bay and warp their pod if they start to lose. In short, someone that won't be missed.
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:03:00 - [40] Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 31/03/2011 00:03:43 Originally by: rock crawlermne Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Bro... Keep reading the OP until you understand it then come back and post. right now its like me saying "I had my dog euthanized" and you coming back with the response "YOU SHOT YOUR DOG! YOU'RE A TERRIBLE MAN" See whats wrong there? LOL funny analogy. I don't think OP is telling all of the story. I think he abused the leave/join mechanic and got banned for it. Time will tell. some LSS / PRONS alts have been doing it for literally years, and even if you draw a picture and ****ing fax it to a GM he'll still just sit their dribbling cheerio's from his mouth wondering what's going to happen on his favourite soap tonight.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:04:00 - [41] Originally by: rock crawlermne Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Bro... Keep reading the OP until you understand it then come back and post. right now its like me saying "I had my dog euthanized" and you coming back with the response "YOU SHOT YOUR DOG! YOU'RE A TERRIBLE MAN" See whats wrong there? LOL funny analogy. I don't think OP is telling all of the story. I think he abused the leave/join mechanic and got banned for it. Time will tell. Well i had all petitions from GM and responses from the banned member posted but was advised that the gms would lock the thread and take it down so i took them down. There isnt anything more to tell. If you read the first page i believe one of the first 8 posts after the OP the same GM banned someone else for posting a wiki link in a chat room.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:09:00 - [42] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 30/03/2011 23:32:57 *Updated* So im not sure if some of you know this but apparently if you leave your corporation (no matter if your corp dec'd another or you got dec'd by a corp) its a bannable offense? "suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM regarding the use of Corp-hopping to avoid war decs." If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). So EVE please tell me which GM to believe because I am lost here. If anything that char/person has canceled all of his accounts because CCP is jerking him around banning characters and making up their own rules as they go along... How can anyone in EVE or this person follow CCP's guidelines without CCP knowing what their own rules are? The only thing i ask is that a GM respond to this post or contact my character in eve to resolve the matter by removing this ban as a past offense and possibly if he isn't too stubborn an apology? Seems like you may be leaving out a huge chunk of the story out. Let's hope GM Stardust doesn't pop up and fill us in with all of the details . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:10:00 - [43] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. Lemme guess... you dropped corp in the middle of a firefight to try to get the WT's concorded? You dropped corp after a quick gank so you could loot and travel around unmolested? You pulled some other ****head move as a griefing/exploit tactic and deserve a permaban instead of a lame 3 day ban?
Cacnea	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:13:00 - [44] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA snip Seems like you may be leaving out a huge chunk of the story out. Let's hope GM Stardust doesn't pop up and fill us in with all of the details . OP edited post so thread wouldn't get locked. Before edit, it was clearly shown that OP was banned for avoiding wardecs by dropping corp. Nothing else was referenced by the GM, which begs the question: why was he banned for avoiding wardec by dropping corp?
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:14:00 - [45] Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:16:34 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 30/03/2011 23:32:57 *Updated* So im not sure if some of you know this but apparently if you leave your corporation (no matter if your corp dec'd another or you got dec'd by a corp) its a bannable offense? "suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM regarding the use of Corp-hopping to avoid war decs." If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). So EVE please tell me which GM to believe because I am lost here. If anything that char/person has canceled all of his accounts because CCP is jerking him around banning characters and making up their own rules as they go along... How can anyone in EVE or this person follow CCP's guidelines without CCP knowing what their own rules are? The only thing i ask is that a GM respond to this post or contact my character in eve to resolve the matter by removing this ban as a past offense and possibly if he isn't too stubborn an apology? Seems like you may be leaving out a huge chunk of the story out. Let's hope GM Stardust doesn't pop up and fill us in with all of the details . God, i wish he would. I already had the details filled in, but as advised by ppl in the thread i took all petition mails down in hopes they wont lock the thread and remove the petition text anyway. Originally by: mkmin Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. Lemme guess... you dropped corp in the middle of a firefight to try to get the WT's concorded? You dropped corp after a quick gank so you could loot and travel around unmolested? You pulled some other ****head move as a griefing/exploit tactic and deserve a permaban instead of a lame 3 day ban? No, close but a few days lapsed, No and you sir hooked on phonics, look into it because you obviously cannot read.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:20:00 - [46] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. You seem to be playing word games here. Let's put aside the reason given for his ban, did this member insta-join/insta-drop a corp to attack a war target? Because you seem to be avoiding this question and latching on to explicit and literal GM writing to save you, like it's a document being scrutinized in court. That's not going to fly here. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:21:00 - [47] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Well i had all petitions from GM and responses from the banned member posted but was advised that the gms would lock the thread and take it down so i took them down. There isnt anything more to tell. If you read the first page i believe one of the first 8 posts after the OP the same GM banned someone else for posting a wiki link in a chat room. This is why you escalate petitions when the responses are too funky. So that the higher-ups know that the lower ranked GMs screwed up, and know who to send to "remedial training". _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:22:00 - [48] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: mkmin Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. Lemme guess... you dropped corp in the middle of a firefight to try to get the WT's concorded? You dropped corp after a quick gank so you could loot and travel around unmolested? You pulled some other ****head move as a griefing/exploit tactic and deserve a permaban instead of a lame 3 day ban? No, close but a few days lapsed, No and you sir hooked on phonics, look into it because you obviously cannot read. I can read. I just think you're lying, trying to garner sympathy in one of the most useless places to do it. The thread's probably going to be locked anyway, and this is merely the entertainment of the moment. If you really want it fixed instead of just to cry about how you got out-griefed by a GM, escalate your petition rather than dance around like a monkey covered with it's own droppings.
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:23:00 - [49] Well, there's alot of ways that OP could have cheated or manipulated the system, but he claims innocence and for now I beleive we should give him the benefit, until proven otherwise. OP, you came to the forum with this to get a rabble started, so here we are. Now that you've gotten our attention and geared it twords the GM's I can only hope they come down to defend themselves. But the big question on everyones mind is did you get screwed? Or are you lying? Would you be willing to post any responce from GM's/CCP here? Now that you've gotten our attention, I'm sure I speak for many when I say "We would like to know the outcome."
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:25:00 - [50] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can't possibly be 'leaving a corporation, right after a kill that by pure chance happened one minute after I joined'.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:29:00 - [51] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. You seem to be playing word games here. Let's put aside the reason given for his ban, did this member insta-join/insta-drop a corp to attack a war target? Because you seem to be avoiding this question and latching on to explicit and literal GM writing to save you, like it's a document being scrutinized in court. That's not going to fly here. So... "account suspended for avoiding a war dec by leaving corp" clearly means "account suspended for apping into a corp at war and engaging a war target without session change" Wow, do i feel stupid... how did i not know that's what he meant. Are you serious??? even so, if the banned member had performed a app in then gank tactic he followed the proper session change procedure. If you think its dumb, its still not an offense that calls for warn or ban.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:32:00 - [52] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. You seem to be playing word games here. Let's put aside the reason given for his ban, did this member insta-join/insta-drop a corp to attack a war target? Because you seem to be avoiding this question and latching on to explicit and literal GM writing to save you, like it's a document being scrutinized in court. That's not going to fly here. So... "account suspended for avoiding a war dec by leaving corp" clearly means "account suspended for apping into a corp at war and engaging a war target without session change" Wow, do i feel stupid... how did i not know that's what he meant. Are you serious??? even so, if the banned member had performed a app in then gank tactic he followed the proper session change procedure. If you think its dumb, its still not an offense that calls for warn or ban. The best part is that the GM correspondence said you were WARNED! And you were stupid enough to CONTINUE! Why are we supposed to feel sympathy for you? If it happened repeatedly enough to warrant a warning, than good riddance to you and whatever lies and misinformation you're spewing to cover your griefing ass.
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:35:00 - [53] Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:37:19 Originally by: NinjaSpud Well, there's alot of ways that OP could have cheated or manipulated the system, but he claims innocence and for now I beleive we should give him the benefit, until proven otherwise. OP, you came to the forum with this to get a rabble started, so here we are. Now that you've gotten our attention and geared it twords the GM's I can only hope they come down to defend themselves. But the big question on everyones mind is did you get screwed? Or are you lying? Would you be willing to post any responce from GM's/CCP here? Now that you've gotten our attention, I'm sure I speak for many when I say "We would like to know the outcome." No, I told everything straight the way it happened and even posted the GM petition conversation. After the first few posts of users warning the thread would be locked and the petition texts taken down anyway i removed them but they were up there until about 30 minutes ago. The only thing i want to get at is what is the actual rule on this, yes some people on here say there is no fine definition of the rule but i think that if there is no definition of the rule then there should be something done about GM's telling me its ok to do one thing then when i do it i get banned by a different GM. There is a problem there, i do understand they make the rules and i have to follow them but for god sakes... Give me a definite rule or guideline so i don't get banned because im following the rules. ^ Its a freaking loop of endless crap. Originally by: Caius Sivaris Can't possibly be 'leaving a corporation, right after a kill that by pure chance happened one minute after I joined'. No, was docked and i stated earlier was in that corp for a few days before i left.
Cacnea	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:43:00 - [54] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. You seem to be playing word games here. Let's put aside the reason given for his ban, did this member insta-join/insta-drop a corp to attack a war target? Because you seem to be avoiding this question and latching on to explicit and literal GM writing to save you, like it's a document being scrutinized in court. That's not going to fly here. So... "account suspended for avoiding a war dec by leaving corp" clearly means "account suspended for apping into a corp at war and engaging a war target without session change" Wow, do i feel stupid... how did i not know that's what he meant. Are you serious??? even so, if the banned member had performed a app in then gank tactic he followed the proper session change procedure. If you think its dumb, its still not an offense that calls for warn or ban. The best part is that the GM correspondence said you were WARNED! And you were stupid enough to CONTINUE! Why are we supposed to feel sympathy for you? If it happened repeatedly enough to warrant a warning, than good riddance to you and whatever lies and misinformation you're spewing to cover your griefing ass. He himself said he was warned, as the GM didn't mention anything about session changes. Also, after the warning, the OP no longer ignored the session change. Do you even read or do you just see what you want to see?
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:45:00 - [55] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 31/03/2011 00:02:13 Apparently people here may be a little dense.... Let me break this down for you... Corp hopping (important, pay attention) then Session changing by jumping through gate or docking then undocking to kill a juicy war target of the corp im joining is not what the member was banned for. Leaving a corporation to avoid a war dec (look right here) IS what the member was banned for. Can i make it a bit simpler to understand? I think not. You seem to be playing word games here. Let's put aside the reason given for his ban, did this member insta-join/insta-drop a corp to attack a war target? Because you seem to be avoiding this question and latching on to explicit and literal GM writing to save you, like it's a document being scrutinized in court. That's not going to fly here. So... "account suspended for avoiding a war dec by leaving corp" clearly means "account suspended for apping into a corp at war and engaging a war target without session change" Wow, do i feel stupid... how did i not know that's what he meant. Are you serious??? even so, if the banned member had performed a app in then gank tactic he followed the proper session change procedure. If you think its dumb, its still not an offense that calls for warn or ban. The best part is that the GM correspondence said you were WARNED! And you were stupid enough to CONTINUE! Why are we supposed to feel sympathy for you? If it happened repeatedly enough to warrant a warning, than good riddance to you and whatever lies and misinformation you're spewing to cover your griefing ass. Sigh... Banned member was warned for something totally different almost a year ago... not to mention what you are saying is the banned member was warned more then once for leaving a corp to avoid a war dec? still by at least 3 GMs that i know of not a warn or bannable offense to leave a corp to avoid a war dec, I only know one GM that considers this an offense and that would be GM stardust aka... (nah bad idea)
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:45:00 - [56] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA No, was docked and i stated earlier was in that corp for a few days before i left. off course you were docked, can't leave a corp if you aren't. Was it right after a gank yes or no...
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Caius Sivaris Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA No, was docked and i stated earlier was in that corp for a few days before i left. off course you were docked, can't leave a corp if you aren't. Was it right after a gank yes or no... No, it went like this. 1. gank 2. dock 3. 3 days 4. leave corp.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:52:00 - [58] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Explain how so? Don't think either of those corps are avoiding decs. Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). How so? This would be considered hired help, not avoiding a dec. Something smells fishy here...sounds like the whole story isn't coming out...The only mechanic I know of that is punishable is the alliance wardec transfer thing they patched a while back and stated anyone using that as a way to avoid decs would be in trouble. Who is your main that got banned? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 00:56:00 - [59] Originally by: Cacnea Do you even read or do you just see what you want to see? Nah, I'm just trolling someone who is crying, and probably lying. Nobody who posts in this thread can do jack squat for him, so who cares? This is a meaningless thread. If he wants to get it overturned, escalate the petition. If he wants to get a firm policy made public, ask. If he wants to get flamed and accused of lying, cheating, and exploiting, rage on the forums.
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:04:00 - [60] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: Caius Sivaris Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA No, was docked and i stated earlier was in that corp for a few days before i left. off course you were docked, can't leave a corp if you aren't. Was it right after a gank yes or no... No, it went like this. 1. gank 2. dock 3. 3 days 4. leave corp. And I suppose you omitted 0. one minute before 1, join Anyway it looks like a pretty odd ruling. Likely there is something else that made the GMs angry...
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:04:00 - [61] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA So... "account suspended for avoiding a war dec by leaving corp" clearly means "account suspended for apping into a corp at war and engaging a war target without session change" Wow, do i feel stupid... how did i not know that's what he meant. Are you serious??? even so, if the banned member had performed a app in then gank tactic he followed the proper session change procedure. If you think its dumb, its still not an offense that calls for warn or ban. Ok. this member was obvioulsy doing more than just "avoiding a war dec by leaving corp". But you want the reason for the ban to explicitly state explicitly word for word what the member did wrong when you already know exactly what he did wrong. He was even warned and continued to do it anyway. You're going to fight this tooth and nail and latch on to the excuse that he was banned for "hopping corps" when the ban email should have stated a different reason. You are not going to win this one. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Explain how so? Don't think either of those corps are avoiding decs. Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). How so? This would be considered hired help, not avoiding a dec. Something smells fishy here...sounds like the whole story isn't coming out...The only mechanic I know of that is punishable is the alliance wardec transfer thing they patched a while back and stated anyone using that as a way to avoid decs would be in trouble. Who is your main that got banned? So... neither of those alliances have member leave corp while at war?
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:14:00 - [63] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Explain how so? Don't think either of those corps are avoiding decs. Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). How so? This would be considered hired help, not avoiding a dec. Something smells fishy here...sounds like the whole story isn't coming out...The only mechanic I know of that is punishable is the alliance wardec transfer thing they patched a while back and stated anyone using that as a way to avoid decs would be in trouble. Who is your main that got banned? So... neither of those alliances have member leave corp while at war? I doubt just to avoid the war, they're mercs, war is what they do...but if you had specific examples... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
IAMYOURMAMA	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:25:00 - [64] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Explain how so? Don't think either of those corps are avoiding decs. Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). How so? This would be considered hired help, not avoiding a dec. Something smells fishy here...sounds like the whole story isn't coming out...The only mechanic I know of that is punishable is the alliance wardec transfer thing they patched a while back and stated anyone using that as a way to avoid decs would be in trouble. Who is your main that got banned? So... neither of those alliances have member leave corp while at war? I doubt just to avoid the war, they're mercs, war is what they do...but if you had specific examples... So.. you're telling me that the GM knows who is and who is not leaving a corp to avoid a war dec.... And in any case if you petition a GM and ask him if its an offense to leave a corp to avoid a war dec he will more then likely say NO its not against any rules and is completely fine. Well unless you get GM stardust and depending on his mood.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:28:00 - [65] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA So.. you're telling me that the GM knows who is and who is not leaving a corp to avoid a war dec.... And in any case if you petition a GM and ask him if its an offense to leave a corp to avoid a war dec he will more then likely say NO its not against any rules and is completely fine. Well unless you get GM stardust and depending on his mood. Huh? You're avoiding the request, and avoiding the previous request...who is the person that got banned? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Iam Widdershins FODT	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:28:00 - [66] Leaving a corporation, at any time, has never been a bannable offense, an exploit, or punishable by GMs. Numerous people have petitioned numerous times and received the same answer, only now from what I can gather "avoiding wars" is suddenly a bannable offense, in this one instance, which CCP will not answer. Making people avoid wars is often the whole GOAL of a wardec. You want them to leave the corporation or alliance, to break them up and reduce their numbers and organization. If CCP is changing the rules regarding this, they will have to do a hell of a lot better in their description of the offense, and make some kind of announcement explaining what is changing and what is and is not allowed. Or they can withdraw this ban and let us rest easy in our chairs without worrying about getting banned next time we want to change corporations at some point in a war.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.31 01:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Cacnea I'm sure continual wardecs on a specific person is borderline, if not full, harassment. I'm sure you're absolutely wrong. This isn't WOW, this game has consequences, if someone wishes to dec you everywhere you go.... join an NPC corp. ♥
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:15:00 - [68] I have an idea who the character in question is that the op is talking about. Let me try to state some facts. Some detail involving game mechanics will be discussed. Remember, lack of "honour" is not petitionable, and your own personal morals should not be substituted for fact. This is not the witch trials (or will I get banned for mentioning witch trials? Touchy Massachusettsians in the audience tonight that haven't gotten over 1692 yet?) Now for the facts. 1.) The character in question had previously petitioned characters for leaving corp to avoid a war dec, going to a hub to purchase new ships, and rejoining corp with new ships a few minutes later and was told this was perfectly legal. The character in question was explicitly told "Characters can join and leave a corp at any time even if it is to avoid a war dec." 2.) The character in question once got a warning for engaging a target without having gone through a session change. Let's say this came from GM 1. This came after another GM, GM 2 had stated that either the character in question OR the target had to undergo a session change. The reason for this is so the character in question immediately shows up as a war target on overview. GM 2 was in error. In fact the character in question has to undergo a session change. At this point GM 1 gave the character in question a warning and a question and answer session occurred between the character in question and GM 1, which specifically laid out the rules for changing corps and engaging war targets. Since this period, the character in question has not done anything that GM 1 as well as the GM in 1.) said was illegal and followed what they knew to be the rules to the fullest extend of ... spacelaw? 3.) Regarding the specific incident regarding the character in question. One morning the character in question joins one of his war dec corps since he doesn't have to watch his daughter that day and will have time to properly play eve. Character roams around for a couple of hours and stumbles upon a sizable target. Character in question destroys target, loots the wreck, and docks, noticing a new wt that was previously in a Hawk comes into local. Target passes through on his way to Jita. Character in question has eyes in systems in 3 jumps in every direction to look for wt's. None but the Hawk is out and about. It should be noted that the character in question is in a machariel and decides he would not be able to lock a hawk before it warps and decides to app to his mission running corp since he'll be watching his daughter in the evening and will need something non pvp oriented to do. Character in question runs a locator in a neighboring system, docks, logs, and begins his work day. During a break in the day the character in question logs on his mission running corp ceo and accepts app. Even later in the day, the character in question tries to log into his account to see what's going on and possibly run a locator and sees that he's been banned. Reason "leaving a corp to avoid a war dec having already been warned about it before". The character in question had never received a warning concerning this issue, and therefore believes a ban was unwarranted. The character in question, however, would have accepted a warning without much of an argument because it would have established a rule, even though it goes against what prior GM's have said. If this ban was really about "leaving a corp to avoid a war dec", who was trying to hunt the character in question? The character in question would want nothing more than to stay in a corp until a space armada showed up for some p versus p. However, after a sizable kill there was no action to be found so the character in question, in accordance with a prior GM's assessment that "players may join and leave a corp whenever they wish and is not considered an exploit", rejoined his mission running corp. And those are the facts.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:33:00 - [69] The simple answer to this would be to state unequivocally that you want this "GM Stardust" fellow to disclose the details of your ban publically. There is a precedent for such things, but be warned; the one i have see nnever end well for the OP.
Pollux21 The Pollux The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:47:00 - [70] The "character in question", after a futile effort in enlisting public support, has now resorted to a method known as "pulling heartstrings" by inventing an imaginary infant daughter of which he would like to be seen as the sole caregiver or single parent. This sort of politicking is juvenile at best, and illegal in some U.S. states ( amongst them, New Jersey is known to be the strictest, and it's consequences, most dire). I would urge the character in question to abandon this fruitless effort and chalk this one up as a loss. It is unfortunate but just. Good luck to you and God help your imaginary bundle of joy you call a daughter.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:50:00 - [71] Originally by: Pollux21 The "character in question", after a futile effort in enlisting public support, has now resorted to a method known as "pulling heartstrings" by inventing an imaginary infant daughter of which he would like to be seen as the sole caregiver or single parent. This sort of politicking is juvenile at best, and illegal in some U.S. states ( amongst them, New Jersey is known to be the strictest, and it's consequences, most dire). I would urge the character in question to abandon this fruitless effort and chalk this one up as a loss. It is unfortunate but just. Good luck to you and God help your imaginary bundle of joy you call a daughter. You know for a fact that the daughter of the character in question has f'd the character in question out of many glorious kills.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:54:00 - [72] As mentioned already, ask GM stardust to post here about the ban if you want people to take you seriously. Also that name sounds somewhat familiar, is he a senior GM? If he is you're probably boned, as if a senior GM tells you you're doing something wrong they are more often than not right (tbh the difference between GMs and senior GMs is absurd)
Pollux21 The Pollux The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:56:00 - [73] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 You know for a fact that the daughter of the character in question has f'd the character in question out of many glorious kills. I also know for a fact that the felines currently residing in the character in question's humble abode have accounted for dozens of very lawlful kills. Which to my school of thought would be more than adequate penance to be paid on part of said daughter.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 02:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Pollux21 Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 You know for a fact that the daughter of the character in question has f'd the character in question out of many glorious kills. I also know for a fact that the felines currently residing in the character in question's humble abode have accounted for dozens of very lawlful kills. Which to my school of thought would be more than adequate penance to be paid on part of said daughter. Does that count as account sharing if my cats jump on the keyboard and reset standings mid op, causing many many ship "losses"?
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 03:04:00 - [75] Originally by: Cambarus As mentioned already, ask GM stardust to post here about the ban if you want people to take you seriously. Also that name sounds somewhat familiar, is he a senior GM? If he is you're probably boned, as if a senior GM tells you you're doing something wrong they are more often than not right (tbh the difference between GMs and senior GMs is absurd) As hard as this is to believe, the character in question did not start this thread, but was started by friends whose hearts are bigger than their brains. Much love bros. The character in question felt the need to set the record straight and regrets any use of GM names in the thread. The character in question does not care if the readers of this forum take him seriously as most of the readers have been unable to comprehend the situation, and probably never will. The character in question does point out that he finds it odd that in this instance, the petition was handled within a couple hours, when the character in questions petitions take 5 days or more to be answered. The character in question notices his cat scribble the characters "T20" in the litterbox and wonders what it means.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.31 03:57:00 - [76] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 As hard as this is to believe, the character in question did not start this thread, but was started by friends whose hearts are bigger than their brains. Much love bros. The character in question felt the need to set the record straight and regrets any use of GM names in the thread. The character in question does not care if the readers of this forum take him seriously as most of the readers have been unable to comprehend the situation, and probably never will. If memory serves repeatedly hopping in and out of corp to engage targets only at your convenience while being immune the rest of the time is something that CCP considers an exploit. It's kind of like griefing; you can get away with doing it, but if you're blatantly repeatedly doing it after a gm tells you to back down then you can expect a ban is incoming. Also what you're doing is very explicitly NOT just a matter of leaving a corp to avoid a wardec, it's hopping in and out of a corp to ** with your wartargets. Originally by:** OLDSKOOL 707 The character in question does point out that he finds it odd that in this instance, the petition was handled within a couple hours, when the character in questions petitions take 5 days or more to be answered. Exploit petitions are always handled quite fast, often with a gm showing up on scene within minutes. Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 The character in question notices his cat scribble the characters "T20" in the litterbox and wonders what it means. Yes, CCP banning "the character in question" for doing something that is clearly an abuse of the current game mechanics, after having been told not to do it by a GM, is clearly a victim of CCP bringing him down just for fun/to protect their alts. "The character in question" needs to get the GM in question to disclose the full case on the forums, because otherwise I have a sneaking suspicion that "the character in question" is just talking out his ass.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:05:00 - [77] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 Well I hope you get your ban squared away and tell your corpies not to bring problems with GMs to the forums I'm assuming it's just a temp one anyways. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Cacnea	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:10:00 - [78] We need to run instances again some time bro. I re-speced my drake for tank, so it'll be easy-peasy if we can find a healer.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:10:00 - [79] Originally by: Cambarus ]If memory serves repeatedly hopping in and out of corp to engage targets only at your convenience while being immune the rest of the time is something that CCP considers an exploit. It's kind of like griefing; you can get away with doing it, but if you're blatantly repeatedly doing it after a gm tells you to back down then you can expect a ban is incoming. Also what you're doing is very explicitly NOT just a matter of leaving a corp to avoid a wardec, it's hopping in and out of a corp to ** with your wartargets. Here is why you don't know how to read. A GM never said to backdown, but instead went over specific rules regarding the mechanic of changing corps, what is legal, and what is not. At which point the character in question did not do anything illegal according to the rules that GM stated. That warning was for engaging without a session change, which has not happened once the character in question had the rule clarified. A ban for "leaving a corp to avoid a war dec" is something completely different and should not have been piggybacked on the unrelated warning. Originally by:** Cambarus ]Yes, CCP banning "the character in question" for doing something that is clearly an abuse of the current game mechanics, after having been told not to do it by a GM, is clearly a victim of CCP bringing him down just for fun/to protect their alts. You obviously don't know how to read. The character in question was never told not to do "it" by a GM. Cconveniently a petition reply was only given once the war dec ran out. Probably just coincidence, but it is curious.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:16:00 - [80] lol highsec
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:17:00 - [81] From what I understand the rules are thus: 1) When under a war dec, you can drop corp and suffer under the tyranny of your NPC corp overlords. You pay a 11% tax as a consequence and can not have standings with 0.0 corps, can not own POSes, etc etc... 2) Hopping corps to avoid wardecs has ALWAYS been considered an exploit! Corp A disbanding and reforming under Corp B, then disbanding again and then reforming under Corp C, etc etc was always an exploit. Joining and leaving alliances to avoid war decs was always an exploit (remember the imune alliance?) THUS the general rule of thumb that I give you is this: Either STAY in the war dec corp or leave it. Changing your corp status rapidly raises suspicion and is "dangerous". You are putting yourself at the whims of whatever GM is reviewing a petition. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:21:00 - [82] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 Well I hope you get your ban squared away and tell your corpies not to bring problems with GMs to the forums I'm assuming it's just a temp one anyways. The ban on the character in question expired a few days ago. However, the character in question believes the GM's should fully read the prior warnings and petitions that have been levied against a character, or submitted by a character, before they click on the ban button. The character in question does not believe the situation was investigated thoroughly, if it was investigated at all. Tthere should be one set of clear rules. A player shouldn't hear one set of rules specifying certain activities are legal from two seperate GM's, and then get banned for it without a warning from another GM. There also should be one set of rules that govern "pvpers", "griefers", and "carebears" equally. If it is against the rules for the character in question to leave a corp to "avoid a war dec" then it should be against the rules for a "carebear" to leave a corp that's at war, go to Jita to fit a new ship, and re-join the war dec'd corporation 20 minutes later. I'm not saying what the character in question did should be legal, however if it is deemed illegal then characters on the flipside of the equation should be subject to the same rules.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:26:00 - [83] Originally by: Taedrin From what I understand the rules are thus: 1) When under a war dec, you can drop corp and suffer under the tyranny of your NPC corp overlords. You pay a 11% tax as a consequence and can not have standings with 0.0 corps, can not own POSes, etc etc... 2) Hopping corps to avoid wardecs has ALWAYS been considered an exploit! Corp A disbanding and reforming under Corp B, then disbanding again and then reforming under Corp C, etc etc was always an exploit. Joining and leaving alliances to avoid war decs was always an exploit (remember the imune alliance?) THUS the general rule of thumb that I give you is this: Either STAY in the war dec corp or leave it. Changing your corp status rapidly raises suspicion and is "dangerous". You are putting yourself at the whims of whatever GM is reviewing a petition. Point 2 is partially incorrect. The first section I was told by 2 GMs was legal as long as you session change. That is why this thread exists I suppose. the second section, " Corp A disbanding and reforming under Corp B, then disbanding again and then reforming under Corp C, etc etc was always an exploit. " is apparently legal because I've petitioned it a number of times. Targets were closing corp the second they got dec'd and reform under the same exact name, making them invalid targets with the same corp name as the corp you dec'd. I have explicitly been told that this is perfectly legal to my dismay, as the corps in question house obvious isk farmers.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:27:00 - [84] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 Well I hope you get your ban squared away and tell your corpies not to bring problems with GMs to the forums I'm assuming it's just a temp one anyways. The ban on the character in question expired a few days ago. However, the character in question believes the GM's should fully read the prior warnings and petitions that have been levied against a character, or submitted by a character, before they click on the ban button. The character in question does not believe the situation was investigated thoroughly, if it was investigated at all. Tthere should be one set of clear rules. A player shouldn't hear one set of rules specifying certain activities are legal from two seperate GM's, and then get banned for it without a warning from another GM. There also should be one set of rules that govern "pvpers", "griefers", and "carebears" equally. If it is against the rules for the character in question to leave a corp to "avoid a war dec" then it should be against the rules for a "carebear" to leave a corp that's at war, go to Jita to fit a new ship, and re-join the war dec'd corporation 20 minutes later. I'm not saying what the character in question did should be legal, however if it is deemed illegal then characters on the flipside of the equation should be subject to the same rules. So, you failed to escalate a petition that should have been escalated (someone corp jumping) and then you cheat the same way they cheated and got caught so now you're butthurt. Got it.
OLDSKOOL 707	Posted - 2011.03.31 04:52:00 - [85] Originally by: mkmin So, you failed to escalate a petition that should have been escalated (someone corp jumping) and then you cheat the same way they cheated and got caught so now you're butthurt. Got it. Get out of my sandbox bro. You're way to angry to be in here.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.31 05:11:00 - [86] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 Originally by: Taedrin From what I understand the rules are thus: 1) When under a war dec, you can drop corp and suffer under the tyranny of your NPC corp overlords. You pay a 11% tax as a consequence and can not have standings with 0.0 corps, can not own POSes, etc etc... 2) Hopping corps to avoid wardecs has ALWAYS been considered an exploit! Corp A disbanding and reforming under Corp B, then disbanding again and then reforming under Corp C, etc etc was always an exploit. Joining and leaving alliances to avoid war decs was always an exploit (remember the imune alliance?) THUS the general rule of thumb that I give you is this: Either STAY in the war dec corp or leave it. Changing your corp status rapidly raises suspicion and is "dangerous". You are putting yourself at the whims of whatever GM is reviewing a petition. Point 2 is partially incorrect. The first section I was told by 2 GMs was legal as long as you session change. That is why this thread exists I suppose. the second section, " Corp A disbanding and reforming under Corp B, then disbanding again and then reforming under Corp C, etc etc was always an exploit. " is apparently legal because I've petitioned it a number of times. Targets were closing corp the second they got dec'd and reform under the same exact name, making them invalid targets with the same corp name as the corp you dec'd. I have explicitly been told that this is perfectly legal to my dismay, as the corps in question house obvious isk farmers. Did you try escalating those petitions? I'm fairly certain that this is one of those "officially" against the rules, but most GMs ignore it things. Sort of like log-in/log-on traps. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Sepheir Sepheron Caldari Genco	Posted - 2011.03.31 07:21:00 - [87] Originally by: Mara Rinn Don't bring your GM issues to the forums, you'll score yourself a forum ban too. Follow the process for escalation as per the EVE site. How does gm co*k taste?
Rasz Lin Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.31 08:20:00 - [88] sound like banned guy was one of those "hey lets make 1 man corp that grows only when we have eyes on our WTs" Good riddance I say.
Hermosa Diosas	Posted - 2011.03.31 08:25:00 - [89] The more I play this game the more I realise how stupid the people at CCP are! They complain about mechanics THEY implemented ! If it's an issue then CCP should code it so you can't leave a Corp whilst in a war it's not difficult in fact it's prob a couple of lines of code!! Making it a bannable action is just stupid!! Absolute idiots
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.31 08:34:00 - [90] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas The more I play this game the more I realise how stupid the people at CCP are! They complain about mechanics THEY implemented ! If it's an issue then CCP should code it so you can't leave a Corp whilst in a war it's not difficult in fact it's prob a couple of lines of code!! Making it a bannable action is just stupid!! Absolute idiots The problem is, that leaving or joining a corp during a war isn't an actual problem and is something you have to allow. On the other hand you can't program a mechanic that is immune to player abuse and doesn't interfere greatly with legitimate use of the mechanic. It can often be much more sensible to just deal with the few abusers of the mechanic and ban their wrinkly asses, than do a massive overhaul of the system that inconveniences everyone and just propably creates new exploits.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.31 08:41:00 - [91] Why all the war dec and corp hopping talk? It has absolutely nothing to do with why the OP got a temp ban. Let me highlight it for those a bit slow: Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA *"suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM..."* That's right. You get banned for ignoring direct instructions from a GM (Terms of Service point 1, Suspension and Ban Policy point 7b). It does not matter what the instructions are about; if the GM tells you to jump, you jump. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.31 08:47:00 - [92] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Why all the war dec and corp hopping talk? It has absolutely nothing to do with why the OP got a temp ban. Let me highlight it for those a bit slow: Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA *"suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM..."* That's right. You get banned for ignoring direct instructions from a GM (Terms of Service point 1, Suspension and Ban Policy point 7b). It does not matter what the instructions are about; if the GM tells you to jump, you jump. I got banned for following the intructions of a GM. Go figure. I also got forum banned for following the instructions of StevieSG. The problems start when people who are unaware of their own inadequacy start issuing instructions.
Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.03.31 09:10:00 - [93] Originally by: IAMYOURMAMA Edited by: IAMYOURMAMA on 30/03/2011 23:32:57 *Updated* So im not sure if some of you know this but apparently if you leave your corporation (no matter if your corp dec'd another or you got dec'd by a corp) its a bannable offense? "suspended for ignoring the instructions of a GM regarding the use of Corp-hopping to avoid war decs." If this be the case then a LOT of people that are in large wardec corps/alliances such as NOIR or Privateers (be dec'd by or initiated dec) should have been or should be banned. Not to mention, ALL capsuleers who use the 1 man corp dec method then instantly join 2 or more members to the corp after locating a war target then leaving corp should be banned(I have not heard of any such cases of this). So EVE please tell me which GM to believe because I am lost here. If anything that char/person has canceled all of his accounts because CCP is jerking him around banning characters and making up their own rules as they go along... How can anyone in EVE or this person follow CCP's guidelines without CCP knowing what their own rules are? The only thing i ask is that a GM respond to this post or contact my character in eve to resolve the matter by removing this ban as a past offense and possibly if he isn't too stubborn an apology? Hi mate. Just a general tip on dealing with GMs and other incompetent staff: when you get a response from a GM on anything except a "stuck" petition then the first thing you have to do is write "hello, i'm sorry but your answer is not acceptable and i want this ticket escalated to a senior GM immediately". If you don't escalate the ticket then there is zero hope of getting any sort of half-useful response. Then after about 2-4 weeks when you get an equally incompetent and/or worthless answer from the senior GM then ask to escalate it again and follow up with up with a complaint to Internal Affairs. Then you may actually get someone to read your petition. Not that will actually help with your problem but maybe this might motivate someone to improve the quality of their support sooner or later (simply because it's cheaper to improve service quality then to constantly have to go through the entire escalation process - only chance it will ever get better).
Josefine Etrange	Posted - 2011.03.31 09:32:00 - [94] Originally by: Lubomir Penev OP is the kind of sucky game mechanics abuser that wardec with a alt in a one man corp, that once his covops alt found a tasty target missioning joins the corp and quickly gank the WT, then leave corp to avoid retribution. By his own admission he even at least once did it without a session change so he would not appear as a war target in local nor on his victim overview, and already got warned for that. I for one, hope that he'll catch testicular cancer IRL, oh wait, not possible. Sounds like exploiting to me, And not just using game mechanics but using unintentional flaws in game mechanic. Permaban him and anyone else who does this. And while your at it, make a war target stay at least 24 hours a wartarget, even when they left their corp. ;-)
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:05:00 - [95] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk The problems start when people who are unaware of their own inadequacy start issuing instructions. That was polite.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:17:00 - [96] CCP I recommend making full investigation of all accounts of the player in question. It is very likely that bot-use and other exploitive behavior can be found. Strike as neccessary... or nuke from orbit. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:20:00 - [97] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: Gavjack Bunk The problems start when people who are unaware of their own inadequacy start issuing instructions. That was polite. Ricky Gervais made a fortune out of the simple concept. I guess if burger flippers stopped getting promoted or hired into positions way beyond their abilities, we'd lose a lot of comedy opportunities in the world. True story.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:26:00 - [98] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: Gavjack Bunk The problems start when people who are unaware of their own inadequacy start issuing instructions. That was polite. Ricky Gervais made a fortune out of the simple concept. I guess if burger flippers stopped getting promoted or hired into positions way beyond their abilities, we'd lose a lot of comedy opportunities in the world. True story. I love people with really big egos. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Gavjack Bunk Gallente Zero taxes corps are easy to make	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:28:00 - [99] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: Gavjack Bunk The problems start when people who are unaware of their own inadequacy start issuing instructions. That was polite. Ricky Gervais made a fortune out of the simple concept. I guess if burger flippers stopped getting promoted or hired into positions way beyond their abilities, we'd lose a lot of comedy opportunities in the world. True story. I love people with really big egos. Not sure if hypocritical, or just simply knowingly inferior.

CCP StevieSG	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:29:00 - [100] Locking this as GM disputes should be filed using the petition system. Please note if you dispute an action by a GM, you should always ask to have the petition escalated to a Senior GM.

Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.31 10:31:00 - [101] Originally by: OLDSKOOL 707 decides to app to his mission running corp since he'll be watching his daughter in the evening and will need something non pvp oriented to do lol, not like running missions at war is difficult, especially as by your own "friends" admission you're only farming bears. The root of the issue is you being a bundle of stick. There are no macrominers in EVE

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