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Andras Dalion
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Posted - 2011.04.05 18:39:00 -
[1]
Just wanted to make ABSOLUTELY SURE i heard this right. All of the info pages concerning concord's mechanics state that fellow corp members (same player corp and not npc corp) may fire on one another in high sec without concord stepping in and popping someone's ship. Someone said that you have to also be in fleet, while someone else said you have to steal from each other's cans. I wanted to test my tank with a friend but dont want to loose my ship to concord to do it either. Anyone know for sure what will trigger concord on friendly fire in high sec (i also heard the aggression mechanics changed recently, too, so wanted to be clear on this rule)?
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Karl Planck
Walt Disney Productions
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Posted - 2011.04.05 18:51:00 -
[2]
If you are in the same corp you are fine to fire on each other. You don't need cans or anything.
However, I believe if someone drops corp in the middle of a brawl then you can get the concord.
As always test it out in something cheap, worst that happens is you lose 15min of your time
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Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. |
Andras Dalion
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Posted - 2011.04.05 18:55:00 -
[3]
TYVM. Good to know.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.04.05 19:50:00 -
[4]
Bear in mind... the whole "can shoot the same corp" thing applies ONLY in PLAYER CORPS. In NPC corps you must drop and steal each other's cans otherwise CONCORD will come to have a "word" with you.
As for the fleet bit... a couple of expansions ago it WAS possible to engage other fleetmates without fear of CONCORD. However it was deemed an exploit and was changed.
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"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.06 03:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Andras Dalion
I wanted to test my tank with a friend but dont want to loose my ship to concord to do it either.
In addition to what the above posters have said, I want to add this:
Whenever I want to test some high sec game mechanics, I fit out a very very cheap ship and go play. I once bought a Burst (Minmitar Frigate) for 20,000 isk. 20,000 isk is well worth the potential knowledge gained from toying around with game mechanics.
Furthermore, when you try to do something which will cause CONCORD retaliation, you will get a warning message making sure you want to do the hostile action (unless you turned that off. Chances are you have not turned that message off.)
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.06 10:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Karl Planck
However, I believe if someone drops corp in the middle of a brawl then you can get the concord.
You can't drop corp in space ... so there's no reasonable way to exploit this, unless you know victim has deactivated his warning messages.
To really answer the hidden question though ...
Why were you using another player to test your tank?
All it teaches you is that:
- At a specific range
- At a specific speed
- Against a specific ammo type
- Against a specific skill level
- Against a specific player level
- Specific guns
- Judging incoming damage by eye
... your tank was "hhmmmm."
Seriously ... either EFT your fit and tweak, or calculate tankable DPS using repair amounts and resists. What you are doing teaches you nothing.
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Oni Sixx
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Posted - 2011.04.06 11:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Seriously ... either EFT your fit and tweak, or calculate tankable DPS using repair amounts and resists. What you are doing teaches you nothing.
Not everyone just looks at numbers. Some people like to actually see how it works under actual fire.
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Oni Sixx
[Not everyone just looks at numbers. Some people like to actually see how it works under actual fire.
As stated, said "actual fire" is completely pointless if you have zero basis for comparison. You may as well just not do it.
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Starnap
Concentrated Evil
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Oni Sixx
[Not everyone just looks at numbers. Some people like to actually see how it works under actual fire.
As stated, said "actual fire" is completely pointless if you have zero basis for comparison. You may as well just not do it.
Yeah, stop playing dumb video game, just play EFT 
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Starnap
Yeah, stop playing dumb video game, just play EFT
Fine.
How about I bring a random ship, random guns, ammo, skills and tactics and come shoot you?
Using only what you see in game, estimate my DPS versus your resists, and ergo your tank.
owait
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Velicitia on 06/04/2011 14:30:51
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Fine.
How about I bring a random ship, random guns, ammo, skills and tactics and come shoot you?
Using only what you see in game, estimate my DPS versus your resists, and ergo your tank.
owait
the original refute to your point being, numbers are great... but a real-world test can sometimes trump the numbers. EFT and in-game tests are meant to be used together...
pre-EFT, calculating the tanks, etc were all done in the "real-world tests"... and probably some pretty nice spreadsheets or personal applications to handle the math.
For example:
you EFT warrior something with 50k EHP ... you think that looks pretty good...
you now have two options:
1. believe in EFT and go get blown to hell in the first "real" PvP engagement you have because you inadvertently left some huge hole in your tank.
2. have a corpie take a few pot-shots at you -- you realize that there's a hole in your tank, and fix it.
At least by taking route two, you're getting "real-world" data that either supports (or discredits) your assumptions based on EFT.
edit -- can't spell for ****
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Plentath
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:27:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Plentath on 06/04/2011 16:28:03
A mixture of both, to be honest
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Velicitia
but a real-world test can sometimes trump the numbers
It can't. Dozens of tests with known and varied variables can equal or best the knowledge of numbers. One corpie shooting you does nothing.
Quote:
pre-EFT, calculating the tanks, etc were all done in the "real-world tests"
If you were a fool, you did this. What most did was use some Quote:
pretty nice spreadsheets or personal applications to handle the math.
which is now what EFT does 
Quote:
For example:
some nonsense about missing a clearly marked resist hole
That's a fail on you, not EFT.
Quote:
2. have a corpie take a few pot-shots at you -- you realize that there's a hole in your tank, and fix it.
If said corpie was able to determine your resist hole, by chance and/or exploit it in a manner that leads you to believe it is behaving inconsistently with other damage types in repeated tests, leading to a conclusion one in particular is weaker.
Or, just use EFT and read the resists.
In case two you're judging the viability of your PVP ship based off ONE specific encounter with unknown DPS. Which is dumb as ****.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 17:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 06/04/2011 17:30:21
Whenever you want to test something, and don't want to take risks of losing stuff on the live server (Tranquility, a.k.a. TQ), try it on the test server (Singularity, a.k.a. SiSi).
Using SiSi Launcher makes it easy too.
Make sure to read the test server rules too.
Usually everything on SiSi costs 100 ISK from NPC, even capital ships. To make ISK on SiSi, insure your ship and self-destruct it, then buy another for 100 ISK. Repeat until you have as much ISK as you want. Of course this doesn't work on TQ.
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