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Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:14:00 - [1] - Quote What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ? How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"? What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why? (And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread).
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 114	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:15:00 - [2] - Quote Super carriers are not overpowered, and neither are titans. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img]
Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:18:00 - [3] - Quote Headerman wrote: Super carriers are not overpowered, and neither are titans. OK, now that we have this covered, let's move to others.
White Tree Broski Federation Elite Space Guild 198	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:19:00 - [4] - Quote A single frigate hull which makes assault ships and interceptors redundant and destroys an entire corner of gameplay.
White Tree Broski Federation Elite Space Guild 198	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:20:00 - [5] - Quote An entire faction becoming redundant because ships in the line come with severe fitting issues across the board and a set of weapons which make no sense and haven't done for years.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 114	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:23:00 - [6] - Quote Scorch [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img]
Tallian Saotome Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension 72	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:33:00 - [7] - Quote FOTM defines what is overpowered, in any system that is not 100% balanced. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Chuc Morris Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:46:00 - [8] - Quote Karim alRashid wrote: What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ? How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"? What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why? (And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread). When I can 100AB fit my Tengu while I'm mostly industrial skilled, some meh faction mods: over 67K EHP (has you can see I'm very far from having all lvl5) shoot/kill stuff at over 100km and never misses -T2 launchers speed tank at +1800m/S and over 2400 OH small T2 shield booster just in case cap stable fit at 40% everything running I CAN PVE AND PVP IN THIS FIT (if I wanted to with this char of course), solo/gang/fleet with this On the other side my triple trimarked Proteus with another char having a LOT MORE TANKING/ENERGY/GUNNERY skills than this toon (gunnery almost perfect, some 23D skills that can wait), can: CAP OUT just by shooting get out of cap charges faster than it can kill something else than retrievers, when it does it's time to go back to station get more ammo and cap charges (I understand opportunists because it's the perfect ship for them, backstabber stuff and gtfo) Can't engage anything from far distances than 20km with the ridiculous long range blaster T2 ammo and does crap dmg at this distance kitted at 24km with faction point he dies without being able to shoot a single round or do whatever (and slowly,ubber tank for sure) Can't do decent dmg out of it's ridiculous blaster optimal distance (around 4km with dedicated sub and nothing really exciting) Drone sub is so ridiculous the only drones I have with are 2 set of lights to pop other's drones and EC600 Vespas BUFFER tank or maybe with small faction repairer just for the fun of cap out even faster, consume cap charges even faster and still die miserably to any smart pilot *MWD ON and not shooting caps out in less than one minute and it's mostly Faction fitted I can't decently pvp with this ship solo, will not be accepted in fleets for everything else than maybe links or logis guard, in small gang is just THE loot pinata hard to kill nothing really dangerous. PVE? -lots of smiles? "you have cruiser at 5 right? train logis and use the oneiros you'll be more useful" This is why I feel overpowered with my tengu, and soon enough the proteus will be changed for another tengu.
Sebero Sinak Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:55:00 - [9] - Quote @Chuck Morris When you give specifics like that ....do you ever just want to shake your head and say "jesus i wish CCP would sell Eve to someone who gives a ****."
Brooks Puuntai Nomadic Asylum 96	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:57:00 - [10] - Quote When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers. ex. The only way to counter a supercap blob is to bring more supers. And by blob I mean 50+ not just 4-5 supers.
White Tree Broski Federation Elite Space Guild 202	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:59:00 - [11] - Quote Please don't use the term 'FOTM' in EVE Online. Something isn't 'FOTM' if it started being used over 2 years ago and continues to be used today. FOTM doesn't exist in EVE because EVE is an unbalanced and subsequently bad game.
Chuc Morris Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.09.27 10:59:00 - [12] - Quote Sebero Sinak wrote: @Chuck Morris When you give specifics like that ....do you ever just want to shake your head and say "jesus i wish CCP would sell Eve to someone who gives a ****." Noes, I just ask my self how the same smart people who made this incredible game became so dumb they can't even see this.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 217	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:01:00 - [13] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers. Pretty much. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Captain Virgo Elite Shadow Society Waterboard 0	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:03:00 - [14] - Quote quote=Chuc Morris] Karim alRashid wrote: What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ? How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"? What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why? (And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread). When I can 100AB fit my Tengu while I'm mostly industrial skilled, some meh faction mods: over 67K EHP (has you can see I'm very far from having all lvl5) shoot/kill stuff at over 100km and never misses -T2 launchers speed tank at +1800m/S and over 2400 OH small T2 shield booster just in case cap stable fit at 40% everything running I CAN PVE AND PVP IN THIS FIT (if I wanted to with this char of course), solo/gang/fleet with this On the other side my triple trimarked Proteus with another char having a LOT MORE TANKING/ENERGY/GUNNERY skills than this toon (gunnery almost perfect, some 23D skills that can wait), can: CAP OUT just by shooting get out of cap charges faster than it can kill something else than retrievers, when it does it's time to go back to station get more ammo and cap charges (I understand opportunists because it's the perfect ship for them, backstabber stuff and gtfo) Can't engage anything from far distances than 20km with the ridiculous long range blaster T2 ammo and does crap dmg at this distance kitted at 24km with faction point he dies without being able to shoot a single round or do whatever (and slowly,ubber tank for sure) Can't do decent dmg out of it's ridiculous blaster optimal distance (around 4km with dedicated sub and nothing really exciting) Drone sub is so ridiculous the only drones I have with are 2 set of lights to pop other's drones and EC600 Vespas BUFFER tank or maybe with small faction repairer just for the fun of cap out even faster, consume cap charges even faster and still die miserably to any smart pilot *MWD ON and not shooting caps out in less than one minute and it's mostly Faction fitted I can't decently pvp with this ship solo, will not be accepted in fleets for everything else than maybe links or logis guard, in small gang is just THE loot pinata hard to kill nothing really dangerous. PVE? -lots of smiles? "you have cruiser at 5 right? train logis and use the oneiros you'll be more useful" This is why I feel overpowered with my tengu, and soon enough the proteus will be changed for another tengu.[/quote] Amen I keep waiting for CCP to make a special group of slots just for cap recharges when flying Gallente.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 93	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:12:00 - [15] - Quote When one out of a range of what should be equivalent options, one stands out so far from the rest that there is no competition, that option is "overpowered". Examples include a T1 pirate frigate which renders interceptors and assault ships irrelevant, one particular hull & fitting which is becoming quite popular for running missions due to its near invulnerability, and a class of hull that can be used for logistics and DPS at the same time with no sacrifice made in either capacity.
The Offerer Republic University Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:13:00 - [16] - Quote Karim alRashid wrote: What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ? How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"? What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why? (And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread). #1) Something is overpowered when it performs better than any other thing available to do the same task, effectively making the whole class(es) of ships/modules obsolete. #2) It is also overpowered when it can be used outside of the intended combat tactics as an "I Win" button and performs equally well against the majority of other setups. #3) A line between "powerful" and "overpowered" is drawn between "being able to use other ships/tactics against the powerful setup with success" and "having to use the same setups just with more numbers involved to beat the overpowered setup". Supercapitals - why: see #2 and #3. Dramiels- why: see #1. Let's not discuss supercapitals? Why not? They are the biggest problem in the game currently.
Gregor Palter 65	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:13:00 - [17] - Quote Overpowered means that, if you look at it objectively, it's the only real viable choice for a given situation to a point where it's simply illogical to bring another comparable ship. The result is that a lot of people will start using it, therefore if something is overused it's probably overpowered. See Supercaps, Angel ships, Falcon, Minmatar in general, Pulse+scorch. There have always been thing that were OP; cruise kestrels, nano age (all iterations), nos domi with single multispec ECM, the list goes on. I ofcourse realise that from a DEV point of view you WANT imbalance and want it shifted around every few years or so as that makes people train for new stuff. But imbalance is bad, it's just bad design and bad "maintenance" to not swiftly take care of something that for whatever reason all of a sudden starts to be overused. That doesn't mean that everything should be the exact same, that'd be very boring but comparable ships should at least be viable and not be a "lulz dis sux" choice. The balance cycle is ofcourse longer in EVE because of the player driven market and all that; you can't just swiftly change stuff the whole time but there's just no excuse for it taking so long to realise that Angel ships are top dog, gallente is fcked and supercaps are ********.
Chuc Morris Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:18:00 - [18] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers. Same ships = pilot's skill difference PLUS A whole organisation and effort to have more than the neighbour. So if you can't understand this then the "social" aspect of the game is missing somewhere at alliances level. What is unbalanced is not those numbers, it's more like this: frig: I'll pass I hate them all, from T1 to T2 they're just throw isk away or noob stuff cruiser: can have decent dps/navigation with around 30/35k EHP before fleet bonus destroyer: useless other than minmatar one, not using this crap stuff neither BC: excellent dps (other than gallente) 65 to 90K EHP before fleet bonus BS: ridiculous dps, navigation ORCA style if not nano'd and buffer shield tanked, 125 +/- before fleet bonus Capitals/ Supers/ Titans: put whatever you want, forum is filled with comments on those and specially about the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune from guys knowing sure more than I'll ever do on this matter since I'm not willing to waste my time training for those, never liked those bot's insta killing you with scripts and will never like such overpowered ships or fly them, there are enough tards to do it.
Gregor Palter 65	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:20:00 - [19] - Quote Chuc Morris wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers. Same ships = pilot's skill difference PLUS A whole organisation and effort to have more than the neighbour. So if you can't understand this then the "social" aspect of the game is missing somewhere at alliances level. What is unbalanced is not those numbers, it's more like this: frig: I'll pass I hate them all, from T1 to T2 they're just throw isk away or noob stuff cruiser: can have decent dps/navigation with around 30/35k EHP before fleet bonus destroyer: useless other than minmatar one, not using this crap stuff neither BC: excellent dps (other than gallente) 65 to 90K EHP before fleet bonus BS: ridiculous dps, navigation ORCA style if not nano'd and buffer shield tanked, 125 +/- before fleet bonus Capitals/ Supers/ Titans: put whatever you want, forum is filled with comments on those and specially about the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune from guys knowing sure more than I'll ever do on this matter since I'm not willing to waste my time training for those, never liked those bot's insta killing you with scripts and will never like such overpowered ships or fly them, there are enough tards to do it. What the **** are you talking about.
Brooks Puuntai Nomadic Asylum 96	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:25:00 - [20] - Quote I was talking about being overpowered not unbalanced. When THE ONLY WAY TO COUNTER something is to bring the more of the same it is OP. Prime example was back when Nanos where OP, there was no way to counter a nano fleet without bringing similar or larger nano fleet. It was pointless to fly anything else. It makes almost every other fleet setup or ship type useless.
Chuc Morris Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:39:00 - [21] - Quote Gregor Palter wrote: Chuc Morris wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers. Same ships = pilot's skill difference PLUS A whole organisation and effort to have more than the neighbour. So if you can't understand this then the "social" aspect of the game is missing somewhere at alliances level. What is unbalanced is not those numbers, it's more like this: frig: I'll pass I hate them all, from T1 to T2 they're just throw isk away or noob stuff cruiser: can have decent dps/navigation with around 30/35k EHP before fleet bonus destroyer: useless other than minmatar one, not using this crap stuff neither BC: excellent dps (other than gallente) 65 to 90K EHP before fleet bonus BS: ridiculous dps, navigation ORCA style if not nano'd and buffer shield tanked, 125 +/- before fleet bonus Capitals/ Supers/ Titans: put whatever you want, forum is filled with comments on those and specially about the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune from guys knowing sure more than I'll ever do on this matter since I'm not willing to waste my time training for those, never liked those bot's insta killing you with scripts and will never like such overpowered ships or fly them, there are enough tards to do it. What the **** are you talking about. Has I said I don't know that much about them other than the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune is the big part of the equation, the numbers is just a matter of perception. You can see smaller ship types numbers (drake blobs?) being countered by smart choices other than bring 200 supers on them. Take away the immune warfare reduce EHP by a lot, set more conditions for bombers use and you'll see less of them. Seems not very difficult to understand there is some problem does it? Now your perception is sure different than mine but it just my opinion, I'm not trying to convince you or someone else that my point is the only way to go. By the way you haven't even shared your opinion.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 217	Posted - 2011.09.27 11:47:00 - [22] - Quote Chuc Morris wrote: You can see smaller ship types numbers (drake blobs?) being countered by smart choices other than bring 200 supers on them. GÇªthat's because the Drake isn't overpowered. You're not exactly disproving his point here. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
non judgement Evolved from the Wreck Flying Burning Ships Alliance 20	Posted - 2011.09.27 12:05:00 - [23] - Quote Proteus remove tho trimark rigs and use ccc rigs and you can make it cap stable... also 4 heavy drones isn't too bad. pity it can't use 4 heavy drones and a covert cloak. it'd make a nice heavy Arazu. I usually use an ab or mwd on my proteus. It has a 15% bonus to cap usage for those anyway. Reminds me of a diemos. Some would say thats not really a good thing. Oh wait this is about overpowered things... anyone talked about cloaking? Cloaking is over powered. I think they should put a cooldown timer on it or something. If you use it for 10-15 minutes, then it turns off. And have to wait 1-2 minutes before you can turn it on again. So you can't just sit cloaked all the time.
Chuc Morris Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.09.27 12:06:00 - [24] - Quote Tippia wrote: Chuc Morris wrote: You can see smaller ship types numbers (drake blobs?) being countered by smart choices other than bring 200 supers on them. GÇªthat's because the Drake isn't overpowered. You're not exactly disproving his point here. I'm not trying to disprove anything because somehow he's right, my example it's just an example where numbers aren't the main factor because you can choose different tactics with different ship types, OC you can bring 200drakes to counter 50 drakes but it's one of the possible choices.
Talaan Stardrifter Universal Exports 0	Posted - 2011.09.27 13:55:00 - [25] - Quote non judgement wrote: Cloaking is over powered. I think they should put a cooldown timer on it or something. If you use it for 10-15 minutes, then it turns off, and have to wait 1-2 minutes before you can turn it on again. So you can't just sit cloaked all the time. Sigh. It's not the cloak that's overpowered, it's the perfect-intel local that's overpowered.
Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.09.27 14:01:00 - [26] - Quote White Tree wrote: A single frigate hull which makes assault ships and interceptors redundant and destroys an entire corner of gameplay. Don't you think that unless we have identical stats across ships, there always will be a best one in a class/role ? Or you mean a ship, which is "best" across several ship classes/roles ?
AFKCloaked AltSpy MasterMined Technologies 13	Posted - 2011.09.27 14:02:00 - [27] - Quote White Tree wrote: Please don't use the term 'FOTM' in EVE Online. Something isn't 'FOTM' if it started being used over 2 years ago and continues to be used today. FOTM doesn't exist in EVE because EVE is an unbalanced and subsequently bad game. FOTM means metagame and it certainly exists in Eve. All games have a metagame. ROFL @ the concept cloaking is overpowered. What you meant to say is local is overpowered.
Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.09.27 14:03:00 - [28] - Quote Chuc Morris wrote: When I can 100AB fit my Tengu while ... On the other side my triple trimarked Proteus ... Does that mean that the Tengu is overpowered or that the Proteus is underpowered?
Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.09.27 14:07:00 - [29] - Quote non judgement wrote: Cloaking is over powered. I think they should put a cooldown timer on it or something. If you use it for 10-15 minutes, then it turns off, and have to wait 1-2 minutes before you can turn it on again. So you can't just sit cloaked all the time. Not sure if serious ... Would you consider docking overpowered for exactly the same reasons that you consider cloaking overpowered ?
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 38	Posted - 2011.09.27 14:14:00 - [30] - Quote White Tree wrote: Please don't use the term 'FOTM' in EVE Online. Something isn't 'FOTM' if it started being used over 2 years ago and continues to be used today. FOTM doesn't exist in EVE because EVE is an unbalanced and subsequently bad game. More evidence that the current CSM is nothing more than an "idiocracy".

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