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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2011.04.11 09:40:00 -
[61]
Something struck a chord for me in the OP. The mention of Faction Warfare being the point where they feel it started to go wrong. For me it was the same.
I always played this game for the story. I enjoyed the events back in the day. As someone who actually flew with the Defiants it was a bit wrenching to see the monumental changes to our world that brought Faction Warfare occur in DT where we could neither play a part in them or affect their outcome. The coronation of the latest Emperor (Empress to be precise) did it for me. Where once we could have launched a probably futile assassination attempt we got to watch a video during DT about what was happening behind locked gates.
I had my fill of 0.0 long ago in Providence and Curse. Faction Warfare lost it's shine the moment I realised CCP were never going to have any actual repercussions for all those systems we claimed. The hunt for decent PvP in the hour before DT died in the face of countless other PvP games that do not go offline in my prime time. So I left a few weeks after the launch of Faction Warfare.
I came back a few months ago thanks to the lure of free days and PLEX as a payment option. For a while it was fun to just potter around getting my infrastructure setup to pay for my PLEX and read the Chronicles. Now I'm established and the Chronicles have been stopped I'm just logging in a few minutes a day to do some trades to keep my account alive.
Eve is not dying but compared to the game it used to be it shows few signs of life. Sure, there are more players, the game is more crowded but it somehow feels less alive than it used to.
I miss the events, I miss the Chronicles, I miss feeling like we could actually affect the backstory albeit in small ways (Bloody Hands of Matar anyone? 1 ISK for Midular?).
I can't say exactly what the game needs, whatever I suggest is bound to be argued for and against in equal measure. I just hope CCP work it out, meanwhile I'll just keep the ISK flowing so I am around for that day when the roller coaster gets to the top of the track again.
Signed,
Disenchanted yet oddly hopeful, recently returned vet.
Thrace Inc Poster |
Alexis Orlenard
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Posted - 2011.04.11 09:55:00 -
[62]
I'm guessing you haven't even noticed the return of live events with Incursion, Telemicus and the effort devs have put into getting players involved with the storyline ?
You were probably too busy feeling sad that the game isn't new to you anymore.
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A Little Girl
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: A Little Girl on 11/04/2011 10:07:53
Bender from Futurama said it best when he took a deep breath and said
 Quote:
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:16:00 -
[64]
Incursions a live event  - I heard that some dev spawned a bunch of Sansha last year. When I talk about story driven events I'm talking about Karishal Muritor, Salvator Serpenti stealing that dread... I could go on but there is no point. Enjoy your next Incursion spawn, if that's what passes for story these days I have nothing to tell you.
Meanwhile, as a barometer check I see there has not been an backstory news items or chronicles this year. Ah well, trades done for the night, time to play something else. Sad, no, just posting my thoughts in a relevant thread. With my main too. 
Thrace Inc Poster |
The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:19:00 -
[65]
Methinks the game needs FOCUS and greater IMMERSION from any new storylines. The current diversity of gameplay is excellent, every expansion has brought in something new, but there's no major storyline running through the game any more. People are all over the place, doing different things in their own bit of space.
I thought the incursions might make a difference, you know like a sort of borg invasion that rallied everyone together to save the universe as we know it. But no, incursions pop up very localised and are blown within a few hours, a few more isk are earned by the few and the universe carries on regardless.
There are so many storylines that have shown promise. Amarrian turmoil over the Emperor's succession, the Jovian thing that engaged every single player (I've still got bits of bone splinter and blood drops from that), FW, etc etc. They've all arrived with a flourish, but then sort of faded away.
I think we need something big, a life-or-death thing that affects everyone, and adds an epic sense of urgency and focus into the game.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Akita T
P.S. "As always, ALL SCENES were captured from actual gameplay."
Also : ENGINE TRAILS.
*wipes tear out of eye*
Eh, that's coming from the light and heat from the engine trail. Yes, yes very much so.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:27:00 -
[67]
Originally by: The Old Chap
I think we need something big, a life-or-death thing that affects everyone, and adds an epic sense of urgency and focus into the game.
Yes, we need something epic. Perhaps rather than one great unifying thing we need faction based issues. Around the time of FW coming out we had tribal division in the Republic with growing civil unrest under the leadership of Karin Midular. Jamyl Sarum could have caused an Amarrian civil war with her disregard for tradition and the manner of her ascension. Tibus Heth was a great character, all the old mega corps trying to hold onto their power bases in the great 'leveling'.
With a few news items and a book that all seemed to have died off. How is Tibus doing these days? Jamyl kill anyone with her mind yet? The Defiants are still out there, what's the go with the Elders? So many opportunities, so many possibilities.
Thrace Inc Poster |
Alexis Orlenard
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:28:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Alexis Orlenard on 11/04/2011 10:30:02
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Incursions a live event - I heard that some dev spawned a bunch of Sansha last year. When I talk about story driven events I'm talking about Karishal Muritor, Salvator Serpenti stealing that dread... I could go on but there is no point. Enjoy your next Incursion spawn, if that's what passes for story these days I have nothing to tell you.
I'm not talking about the game mechanic, i'm talking about the Sansha live events before. But since you couldn't even be bothered to check them out at the time or even just click that link and get a clue i'm not even going to bother.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:50:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Alexis Orlenard
Edited by: Alexis Orlenard on 11/04/2011 10:30:02
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Incursions a live event - I heard that some dev spawned a bunch of Sansha last year. When I talk about story driven events I'm talking about Karishal Muritor, Salvator Serpenti stealing that dread... I could go on but there is no point. Enjoy your next Incursion spawn, if that's what passes for story these days I have nothing to tell you.
I'm not talking about the game mechanic, i'm talking about the Sansha live events before. But since you couldn't even be bothered to check them out at the time or even just click that link and get a clue i'm not even going to bother.
But you did just bother didn't you. I only came back to the game a few months ago so I didn't take part in the events of last year. I did view that link and by the sounds of it I didn't miss much. Spawning some uber sansha and playing pinata pales next to the story arcs we used to have. This is no story, "Some Sansha spawned again and got blown up".
The Old Chap knows the score, the Epic-ness is missing. I don't expect many on this forum to agree with me. Many players I know do but they know better than to try and discuss anything on these forums.
I should head to Deck 23 and see if I can find any familiar faces.
Thrace Inc Poster |
Cailais
Amarr
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:54:00 -
[70]
Originally by: The Old Chap
Methinks the game needs FOCUS and greater IMMERSION from any new storylines. The current diversity of gameplay is excellent, every expansion has brought in something new, but there's no major storyline running through the game any more. People are all over the place, doing different things in their own bit of space.
A good point made there. I was just thinking along similar lines. There's some good things to be said about broadening a games appeal - be that through FW, W space, Incursions, incarna etc; trouble being that you make lots on 'mini games' that dilutes the community rather than embracing mechanics that pull that community together through shared experience.
I shall blog about this subject I think. Good point Sir and well made.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.04.11 11:31:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 11/04/2011 11:32:37
For me EvE has always been about internet spaceships. The rest of it is just fluff.
The backstory (provided in the early Chronicles) was actually excellent fluff but it soon became clear that CCP's vision of a sandbox didn't involve building on those stories any significant permanent way.
Factional Warfare and Wormholes are both examples of awesome ideas based in the backstory that never got taken past version 1.0 and are now boring deadends as a result.
As long as the game provides opportunities for playable (i.e. acceptable lag), small scale (i.e. limited blobs) spaceship pvp with new ships, modules, strategies and tactics I'll keep subscribing. At the moment it still does, although you do have to search long and hard to find them.
However, the big projects currently on the horizon such as Incarna and DUST don't add anything to my own gameplay. This is the first time I've felt this way about EvE since I started playing back in 2006. If it continues to be the case I can see myself leaving at some point as I don't think I share CCP's vision of what they want EvE to be anymore.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.04.11 12:05:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 11/04/2011 12:15:26
Originally by: Stitcher
Farts really loudly in public
This guys post was so full of crap I can't even begin...
Most great things come from a small handful of people who have a dream. if by some quirk of fate that dream becomes immensely successful like EVE Online has they begin to hire new people who simply were not there at the beginning. They were simply not part of that spark that touch a nerve in so many people and thus resulted in great popularity.
What replaces it is a marketing campaign that is focused on getting new people to subscribe, orchestrated by people who are paid allot of money for not having the same caliber of dream.
. . .
Now, far be it from me to correct a nitwit like Mr Sticher and his fail "Reality check" but a hell of allot of people who play this game have multiple accounts. You need them at this stage of the game play to get anything done. So you can pretty much take that "40-50k" people you see online everyday and divide it by half (and also cram it)
About 25K people (give or take a few thousand) are online each day 
So as people like you (and people at CCP) count their beans and think "oh look how good we are doing" you fail to realize the ever increasing trend of multiple accounts online at any given time. What you get is a game that is not actually growing at the rate that people are thinking, there is merely a growing need for multiple accounts.
So your opinion is total *******s.
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 12:25:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Signal11th on 11/04/2011 12:25:26
Humm not that I agree with the OP but when people say EVE is dying I disagree, I think more than anything EVE has basically become boring, very boring.
Hence the constant need for "new" stuff,
1: Become a mission runner (ok do the same 15-20 missions, I mean next time I see that Damsel I'm just going to pod the stupid *****, how manys times) over and over and over.
2: Be a pirate (possible the only constantly evolving career), because ganking that new player again for the 40th time just thrills you.
3: Live in 0.0(like myself) it's ok, but again you either rat or pvp both get boring if thats what your doing all the time, pvp somewhat less though. Join in a large scale battle,humm been there done that quite nice watching my ship get blown up at 1 fpm.
4: Be a trader nuff said who's ever met an accountant who was the life and soul of the party.
5: Incursi....z.zzzzzzzzzzzzz
I've only been playing for a few years and I still enjoy it but if I'm honest it's technically a very boring game that's more like a speadsheet than anything, it's only the corp mates that make it vaguely interesting.
There's nothing that really suprises you anymore, just random **** that you think woaahh wtf, pvp you win you lose or you draw/escape great fun for 20 seconds but then you spend another 4 hours trying to find that again.
For once I would like to go through a gate and then the screen says "Due to a techical malfunction you have been miswarped to "middle of goon home system" then you can really go "OOO ****" didn't need that to happen but WTF and laugh.
it seems to me it's all to pre-ordanied to much like a spreadsheet. BTW no I'm not leaving (still love the game) you can't haz my stuff I'm not mad or any of that other childish ****.
Just my tuppence worth!
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Jorhan Brimve Stahl
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Posted - 2011.04.11 12:38:00 -
[74]
"You ignore the community."
Community (tm) so far successfully predicted EVE's death every year.
Year in and year out Community (tm) produces steady output of *****ing, whining, raging, theorising, flaming, and outright trolling which is now called "feedback which CCP ignores". Any sane person would do the same, I think, since picking any useful information from this dump must be a damn torture.
Oh, in CCP's place I'd stop ignoring the Community(tm). First - make forum login screen show "YOU SUCK, GO PLAY THE GAME INSTEAD" in huge orange letters. Second - randomly issue execution warrants for every topic starter using words "fix", "nerf", "boost" or "should".
Don't you ever confuse forum Community (tm) with people who play the game and don't stroke their e-Ghandi egos on the forum.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2011.04.11 13:18:00 -
[75]
I just got back from a run and had some thoughts on what I find to be missing. My big issue will be explaining it in the detail I understand it. Using the Defiants story arc as an example, what made it so immersive was the delivery. In as small a nutshell as I can manage this is what happened:
It started with a member of Republic Fleet (a dev / GM) posting a threat to the Amarr on Intergalactic summit. Debate sprang up and just as we thought it might come to nothing we read a news article about that same Captain Karishal Muritor going rogue with his men and stealing a bunch of ships.
Before I know it I am exchanging EveMails with Karishal. Meanwhile Republic loyalists are getting mails from Fleet command getting them to hunt Karishal down. I had some great in game chats with Republic Loyalists who had no idea me and my corp were about to go rogue and follow Karishal out to 0.0.
There were some small to large in game events including the destruction of an Imperial Battlestation in a joint Ushra'Khan / Defiants raid. The Amarr sent an elite unit, The Saracens, after the Defiants and focussed their efforts in the Bleak Lands. During this period you could scan down Saracen bases in the Bleaks and if your attack was successful you could capture data chips to pass to the Defiants. Of course the Amarr loyalists tried to stop us (as we now know this was the prototype Faction Warfare mechanic).
Sadly it came to an end when Karishal was ambushed and killed by Republic Fleet. Protests followed and the call for Karin Midular to stand down rang out from the fringe Matari elements.
A short while later the old Defiant commander Shakor revealed a perfected version of the Insorum antidote (a whole other story arc that started a year or so before the Defiants events). A Minmatar fleet including what was left of the Defiants launched a daring raid rescuing many slaves. Karin Midular was forced to step down and Shakor took over. That was all covered in the first Eve novel and news items / videos at the time.
For those of you that remember all this, yes I have been very brief. Let's not nitpick over the details as the point I am trying to make is this.
That was one story arc that used all elements of the game to play itself out. Forums, news articles, in game live events, scripted (npc) events, chronicles, videos (this, and this) and even lead into the book. There were other arcs that I don't know too much about "The Speakers of Truth" was one I heard people talking about but I was busy fighting in 0.0 to pay much attention (that and not an Amarr).
That story arc gave many of us a backdrop to play against. It gave us a reason to go fight the fundies in the Bleaks. For a while I really thought I'd get set -10 to the Republic for helping Karishal, a few of us faced it as a real possibility and moved all our gear into the Great Wildlands and Providence just in case. It provided the reason for our actions.
That is the kind of epic, immersive, big picture kind of thing I miss from Eve. Even if I am not involved directly I liked reading the news articles and chrons. It just made it feel like more than just a spreadsheet. I really hope that Incarna becomes just another instrument for CCP to bring this kind of thing back to the game. I know it got a lot of the attention it did for being the build up to FW and the first novel but it was still one of the finest times I had in Eve and once it was gone...
Thrace Inc Poster |
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.04.11 13:25:00 -
[76]
I largely agree with the OP.
If CCP would just stop breaking stuff that already worked then the fact that they waste years worth of development effort on meaningless crap and never refresh old content wouldn't be such an issue, but they don't. Instead they also insist on breaking the only thing that was good about the game in the first place which was the basic ship combat.
Examples that stand out for me include:
Sound - completely borked since Apocrapha, there's no longer any synchronisation whatsoever between graphics and sound effects.
Ship effects steadily getting worse with each passing expansion.
Engine trails - gone.
Warp scramble effect - practically invisible.
Web effect - practically invisible.
Shield hardeners - make stupid buzzing sound.
Cloak activation/deactivation - makes no sound at all.
Sensor booster - in gangs overpowers all other effects.
Cyno effect - replaced with crap.
Ship balance screwed beyond belief in the critically important area of capitals.
One shotting carriers - lame.
Dreads - pointless.
Super carrier blob pwnmobiles - lame.
Economy and ship prices getting ridiculous.
40M for a Sabre :(
160M for a Devoter :(
In the area of ship combat all this that has changed has been pretty much the exact opposite of what the majority of players appeared to want, and it all makes it much harder to enjoy the only bit of the game that I'm really interested in.
So while I'm not sure I'd agree that Eve is dying per se, it's certainly becoming far less interesting for me.
If they want to revitalize Eve then they need to focus on the core activities of PvP and PvE combat and make it more like what the players want. And Incursions which break the sandbox model, spawn on the other side of the Eve cluster and are killed off a few hours after downtime don't remotely cut it.
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Arci Arratece
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:35:00 -
[77]
OP is absolutely right. I think something she's stumbling to get out is that I don't think she's saying "no new features" she seems to be saying, "take care of the features we have" and "iterate on the things you promised to iterate upon" which I think it something we can all agree with.
+1
Sister Arci M. Arratece
Matron Sister, Sisters of Clarity
Servant Sisters of Eve |
Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.12 09:05:00 -
[78]
CCP would be good to read this and reply to this. There have been some changes in the past weeks/months that really make you think what is going on....
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.12 09:10:00 -
[79]
the sansha live event were not just some dev spawning random NPCs.
every ship was being flown by a dev or GM
they were normal pvp fit
they were abducting people, and the players got to come in and change that number.
the devs actily GMed the events, so when a player tried to ECM the wormhole with a certain frequency the devs had it shut down the wormhole. this could be found through hints in PvE in wormhole space.
The devs talked in local and some players even came to their aid istead of fighting them.
I'm just saying it might not be AS epic as finding pieces of joivians in your cargo or other awesome stories or past, but at least give them cerdit where cerdit is due.
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Ignatius Gnarl
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.04.12 11:55:00 -
[80]
Agree with op.
I've paid hundreds of pounds of subscription over the years to play a sandbox internet spaceship game. I don't want to play hairdressing online. The 'adapt or die' crew miss the point. If you bought Crysis and opened the box to find Michel Thomas you'd be ****ed too - you wouldn't 'adapt'.
The heart of the game is a mess, and the players make it good in spite of the game.
I'm amazed no one else has made a good internet spaceship game. If there was an alternative I'd switch at once. As far as I'm aware, although EVE may be bad, it's all there is.
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Khmoud Hasjiz
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Posted - 2011.04.12 12:02:00 -
[81]
agreed, this can count on my signature i have already dropped down from 4 to 2 accounts for diverse reasons (all related to ccp policy) and feel less and less willing to log in...
no tears yet however to anyone that has any gaming development skills please consider the market vacuum there is in space MMO games and create something more 'evolved' then eve... riches lay ahead.
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Arriana Alterana
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Posted - 2011.04.12 12:31:00 -
[82]
Originally by: MotherMoon
the sansha live event were not just some dev spawning random NPCs.
every ship was being flown by a dev or GM
No, they weren't. They spawned a huge cloud of NPC sansha battleships and scrambler frigs and one developer flown ship, usually a carrier or a nightmare.
Quote:
they were normal pvp fit
Ahahahahahahahahahha
Did you look at the fits the developers used?
Quote:
they were abducting people, and the players got to come in and change that number.
And that's all we got to do. We had no way of interacting with the storyline besides showing up at the planet being attacked, and shoot a blob of NPCs, we also able to minorly effect the storyline, but the outcome was fixed, there was no way to change anything. And the poor sansha RPers...when Incursion came out CCP dropped them like a bad habit and gave them absolutely no room to stand. They were completely screwed over.
the devs actily GMed the events, so when a player tried to ECM the wormhole with a certain frequency the devs had it shut down the wormhole. this could be found through hints in PvE in wormhole space.
actually no, that was worked out in Syne intel and conducted by Operation Bad moon. I was a part of it. I know. We were just taking shots in the dark with the graviton ECM. There was no secret trick. There was nothing to be found in the wormhole space system the Sansha were reported as having moved through. There was nothing.
Quote:
The devs talked in local and some players even came to their aid istead of fighting them.
I'm just saying it might not be AS epic as finding pieces of joivians in your cargo or other awesome stories or past, but at least give them cerdit where cerdit is due.
I'm willing to give credit, but only so far. My issue with Incursions though, is not the way the story was handled its that the outcome was determined before it began. There was no way to change the overall course of the story or send it off in another direction. I suspect that Incursions, in terms of storyline treatment, are going to end up like Faction Warfare. Abandoned, relegated to the sidelines, and ignored as much as possible.
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Mirime Nolwe
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.04.12 13:02:00 -
[83]
I don't agree with all this "doom days are here" threads in the last few days but i also don't agree with some counter arguments that people use, most of you support your ideas in "we have more players now that we had in the past", since when quantity is equal to quality? Does that make WoW the best MMO of the last 5 years? I understand that the game some of the old vets (i started at late 08)knew in 04/5/6 is not here anymore, life is like that you know? We always crying about how good life was in the good old days.
The only thing i actually agree is the continuous errors that might lead to a major discontent from the playerbase, resulting in a big exodus from the people that love this game. The issue here is not doing something wrong, is doing stuff wrong over and over.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
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Posted - 2011.04.12 13:26:00 -
[84]
Confirming EVE never fades is my favourite trailer evar!
also, I'll just leave this here
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Zoggin
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:24:00 -
[85]
god sake, you whiners, all of you..
if you don't like eve anymore, or the direction it is going in etc etc
JUST **** OFF ALREADY
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Zoggin
god sake, you whiners, all of you..
if you don't like eve anymore, or the direction it is going in etc etc
JUST **** OFF ALREADY
So basically, as long as the changes don't effect you personally, then you don't care if the game is going down in flames around you...
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
We're all in this together. Like it or not.
Nikita's Graphic Arts Studio
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Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:32:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana
So basically, as long as the changes don't effect you personally, then you don't care if the game is going down in flames around you...
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
We're all in this together. Like it or not.
Wow, you really think that's an appropriate comparison to make?
That really is way, way out there in delusionland.
Also using your alt (Arci Arratece) to post in support = lol.
Unless you sold that char.
Yes.
Yes, I am. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana
First they came for ...
Wait, does that count as invoking Godwin's Law? 
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2011.06.24 12:36:00 -
[89]
Welp, time to go ahead and bump this.
Nikita's Graphic Arts Studio
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.24 12:58:00 -
[90]
That vid gave me chills... I actually like the old avatars better. They had more character back then... CCP as well.
They need to quit with the damn eye candy and get under the hood and get their hands dirty fix the expansions.
I am afraid CCP backed themselves in a corner with Dust... PI could have been an epic expansion but it was gimped to make room for Dust.
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