Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Saile Litestrider
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 19:55:00 -
[31]
Don't forget the Legion in all this. It has virtually the same drone subsystem, only with even less bandwidth, plus it has no secondary drone sub meaning it can't even break 50.
|
Noisrevbus
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 20:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Virtue Maulerant The Drone Proteus feels so bad,it has all that potential but still it cannot sustain 5 Heavy Drones.Any half-serious drone boat can use 5 heavy drones but unfortunately the Proteus cannot be one of them despite even being T3 and fully investing(in terms of subsystems)in drones.
The rest of the T3 ships are considered to have a subpar offensive subsystem as well but at least those fulfil their role more or less.The Proteus having only a bandwidth of 100 Mbit/sec gets a major kick in the face in terms of DPS.
In the end,it's really a shame to let it be like that when a very very simple fix(literally putting 125 in a field)would actually make it worthwhile.
The OP seem to be confusing what he wants, for what the ship needs.
Any half serious drone-boat? Aside BS drone-bay scaling (which could easily be looked at) and exclusive ships there are two drone-boats that have 125 bandwidth, and those ships are essentially nothing but drone-boats. In order to preserve clear roles for the Ishtar and Domi, ships like the Myrm and Eos do not. The same Myrm and Eos which are in comparable bracketting with the Proteus.
The Proteus itself is a pretty good ship already, that without further improvement still ursurp the potential of the other racial platforms more so than any other race. Within it's own class it's also a highly competetive option, from cloaky scout to cloaky booster to ranged- or heavily buffered booster or general purpose platform with attractive expertise. On top of that it has qualities as a solo-boat and in very small groups.
Why should a modular tech III outperform Vexors and Myrms that are somewhat dedicated drone-boats, and further overstep Gallente HACs and CS in their roles?
Spend time on suggestions for ships that need changes instead, of dreaming about what you want for your own ships.
|
Scorpii Orion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize The Myrm and Eos don't have 125mbit/s either you know. T3s are jack of all trades, masters of none. The real issue is hybrids.
Oh and the cloaky legion dps fulfills nothing offensively.
Except tengu wich is master of everything. Even pvp, it's drake on steroids.
|
Adacia Calla
Minmatar Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:09:00 -
[34]
Pretty sure CCP doesn't want a cruiser hull doing 1100 dps with a T2 BS sized tank.
|
Dark Voynix
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:25:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 12/05/2011 08:25:46 Edited by: Dark Voynix on 12/05/2011 08:25:26 Edited by: Dark Voynix on 12/05/2011 08:25:05
Originally by: Daneel Trevize The Myrm and Eos don't have 125mbit/s either you know. T3s are jack of all trades, masters of none. The real issue is hybrids.
Oh and the cloaky legion dps fulfills nothing offensively.
While i wont comment on proteus bandwith ( too few experience on t3 ships) i remind you that both of the ships you named was designed with 125 Mbit. Both was nice and good ships, but then whine fest forced CCP to reduce bandwith on both ships and they are crappy since then.
|
ColdCutz
Gallente Pwny Nation
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Adacia Calla Pretty sure CCP doesn't want a cruiser hull doing 1100 dps with a T2 BS sized tank.
Um, Blaster Proteus can already do that; so I guess CCP does want. Even with 125mbit/s though, Drone Proteus would top out at around 950.
|
Swynet
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize The Myrm and Eos don't have 125mbit/s either you know. T3s are jack of all trades, masters of none. The real issue is hybrids.
Oh and the cloaky legion dps fulfills nothing offensively.
Sorry to wake you up but even a certain Amarr battleship has 125Mb/s It's obvious these stats are related to their racial bonus
|
Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 12:49:00 -
[38]
I agree that the proteus needs 125mbit bandwith. I also think that we could fix the problem of that making the ishtar obsolete by actually giving the ishtar some fitting space, or giving it a 10%/lvl drone damage bonus for HAC skill as well as the gallente cruiser one. After all... its not like it actually can fit guns in its current state.
As for the myrm/eos - I think both of those need 125mbit bandwith as well. Myrm wouldn't replace the ishtar, because in its current state, it has enough space for 5 heavys and 5 lights... pop 1 drone and you cut off 1/5 of its drone dps, and even with 5 heavies/sentries, it still does only mediocre dps. This just makes it so you may actually see some used in PvP by someone other than a noob. And even with a 125mbit bandwith the eos isn't going to be a powerhouse - it still doesn't have a drone damage bonus, and still wouldn't outdps an astarte, which is the major reason why it got the nerfbat anyways. Of course, you still wouldn't see anyone flying an eos, because its still a piece of junk anyways. That was more of a nerfhammer than a nerfbat that hit it anyways...
-Arazel
|
Centus Commander
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 12:56:00 -
[39]
Yes
|
Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 13:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Adacia Calla Pretty sure CCP doesn't want a cruiser hull doing 1100 dps with a T2 BS sized tank.
1084dps with heat. 185k EHP with slaves and standard gang boost.
[Proteus, ohai] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Reactive Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Warp Scrambler II Domination Stasis Webifier Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
|
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 16:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Songbird Domi has 5drones x 1.5 damage mod so basically 7.5 drones effective. On top of that it has enough space for 3 sets of large drones.
Proteus (which costs 10x the domi, or 4x the ishtar or gila) should be buffed by getting 2x damage mod for drones. It's drone bay is smaller. Max it can launch is 4 large drones so basically it will have 4x2 it will be 8 drones effective. It can have only medium guns so compared to a domi it will still have less DPS.
No changes to the ship itself - only 1 subsystem is changed - the 5% bonus to hybrid damage morphs into 20% bonus to drones DPS(vs the original 10%)
I endorse this approach. Just make the Proteus a little different and slightly better from a pure drone perspective. It wouldn't utterly ruin the Ishtar, but it would provide a bit of variety and an advantage.
|
Goose99
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 16:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Songbird Domi has 5drones x 1.5 damage mod so basically 7.5 drones effective. On top of that it has enough space for 3 sets of large drones.
Proteus (which costs 10x the domi, or 4x the ishtar or gila) should be buffed by getting 2x damage mod for drones. It's drone bay is smaller. Max it can launch is 4 large drones so basically it will have 4x2 it will be 8 drones effective. It can have only medium guns so compared to a domi it will still have less DPS.
No changes to the ship itself - only 1 subsystem is changed - the 5% bonus to hybrid damage morphs into 20% bonus to drones DPS(vs the original 10%)
I endorse this approach. Just make the Proteus a little different and slightly better from a pure drone perspective. It wouldn't utterly ruin the Ishtar, but it would provide a bit of variety and an advantage.
"Ruin" is too weak a reasoning. T3's are supposed to be better than HACs. Balance between Drone Proteus and Ishtar should be the same as that of Tengu and Cerebrus, or Legion and Zealot.
|
Voith
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 05:12:00 -
[43]
The Legion isn't much better than a Zealot because Legions are ****. Proteus is worse than an Ishtar because the Proteus is ****.
Is anyone really going to say a Loki or Tengu isn't much better than their T2 counterparts?
Face the music folks, Gallente and Amarr are dead. Winmatar for PvP, Caldari for PvE. Has been for almost a ****ing decade.
Give up.
|
trollerii
-Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 12:39:00 -
[44]
Edited by: trollerii on 13/05/2011 12:39:31
Originally by: Grimpak I think there are better ways to boost the drone proteus than to make the ishtar totally obsolete and irrelevant.
Because they cost roughly the same? Tengu/Loki/Proteus/Legion is not outperforming the other HAC in every single way? Of course they are better, but then they cost 6-700m isk to t2 fit it and 1.5b+ if you gonna really pimp them out.
-{Signature}-
OvO -orly? *hoot hoot* m m |
Songbird
Gallente T.I.E. Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:05:00 -
[45]
Ishtar is cheap and sufficient for most situation , of course if you wanna spend 2bil on a drone ship you'd be able to by going for drone proteus.
The tengu has the 750 DPS at 120km and no other ship can match it. Even if the proteus drone subsystem had 20% bonus to damage 4 sentry drones wouldn't even come close to these numbers. At best it would be a harder hitting ishtar with AC's(and mid sized AC's max range is much less than the sentries can reach). On top of that the smaller drone bay (max 225 if I'm not mistaken) is perfect for the solution.
I love to toot my own horn and all that but this time I've hit the nail squarely on the head. This solution + my 'lower ranged, higher dps rails 'solution will revive the gallente race (I hope).
|
Wolfuzz
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:10:00 -
[46]
Totaly agree, drone proteus needs 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth. CCP just give us ability to use 5 heavy or sentry drones, and take one turrent slot to balance dmg buff. It is sick that Ishtar old heavy assault ship is much better for pve than new and fresh T3.
|
Virtue Maulerant
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Wolfuzz Totaly agree, drone proteus needs 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth. CCP just give us ability to use 5 heavy or sentry drones, and take one turrent slot to balance dmg buff. It is sick that Ishtar old heavy assault ship is much better for pve than new and fresh T3.
Not to mention that the Proteus in drone subsystem configuration looks awesome,literally like an advanced drone itself.It's only hindered by the bandwidth otherwise it would have made a very fun ship to fly.Right now the dps is lacking.
If anyone has ever tried it in its current state it would be nice to hear some feedback although I doubt it will be positive.
|
Gefen Orion
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 18:11:00 -
[48]
Face it guys...CCP really messed up with the Gallente race...gallente is super nerfed and CCP won't do anything about it anytime soon...Might as well train CNR + missiles for PVE...
the proteus is a poor excuse for a T3 ship...pfft... "Right here, right now." |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 18:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Goose99 T3's are supposed to be better than HACs.
they are? why?
Originally by: trollerii Edited by: trollerii on 13/05/2011 12:39:31
Originally by: Grimpak I think there are better ways to boost the drone proteus than to make the ishtar totally obsolete and irrelevant.
Because they cost roughly the same? Tengu/Loki/Proteus/Legion is not outperforming the other HAC in every single way? Of course they are better, but then they cost 6-700m isk to t2 fit it and 1.5b+ if you gonna really pimp them out.
pve HAM/HML Tengu (because there is no comparable cruiser in this field) and blaster proteus (because blasters suck, really) aside, no subsystem configuration outmatches T2 role-specific ships for a specific role.
a vaga-loki isn't better than a vagabond, and a laser-legion is just marginally better than a zealot.
if any, T3's show that certain T2's need a boost (cerb and deimos being the most glaring examples). ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2011.05.14 23:40:00 -
[50]
i agree the prot should get an extra 25mb on the main offensive sub, in the same regard i would surgest 5% (or 10) damage bonus TO LAZERs for the legions drone sub.
theres no real reason the drone prot shouldnt have 5 heavy capability (perhaps with a gun less).
tengu can do the cerb or moa better tho lacks the top end range, ecm is always left to FALCON
legion can do a zealot with more dps or the sac, far better tank in both cases, lacks vs curse with nuets (range)however is better than pilgrim
loki can out perform any of its cruiser sized brothers, the muninn, vaga or the hugin/rapier
why wouldnt the prot have AT LEAST the same drone abilitys as the ishtar? p.s. prot cant (and has no real option) to fit its ew, damps, tho does ofc get the tasty range bonus which anyone would argue is decent.
|
|
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 00:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dr Fighter i agree the prot should get an extra 25mb on the main offensive sub, in the same regard i would surgest 5% (or 10) damage bonus TO LAZERs for the legions drone sub.
theres no real reason the drone prot shouldnt have 5 heavy capability (perhaps with a gun less).
tengu can do the cerb or moa better tho lacks the top end range, ecm is always left to FALCON
legion can do a zealot with more dps or the sac, far better tank in both cases, lacks vs curse with nuets (range)however is better than pilgrim
loki can out perform any of its cruiser sized brothers, the muninn, vaga or the hugin/rapier
why wouldnt the prot have AT LEAST the same drone abilitys as the ishtar? p.s. prot cant (and has no real option) to fit its ew, damps, tho does ofc get the tasty range bonus which anyone would argue is decent.
tbh I still think there are better options than making the ishtar irrelevant.
that said, if you boost proteus drone bay, replace ishtar's gun damage bonus for something else drone related (and boost the other hacs's too. just because its T3, doesn't mean they should be better) ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Goose99
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 01:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Dr Fighter i agree the prot should get an extra 25mb on the main offensive sub, in the same regard i would surgest 5% (or 10) damage bonus TO LAZERs for the legions drone sub.
theres no real reason the drone prot shouldnt have 5 heavy capability (perhaps with a gun less).
tengu can do the cerb or moa better tho lacks the top end range, ecm is always left to FALCON
legion can do a zealot with more dps or the sac, far better tank in both cases, lacks vs curse with nuets (range)however is better than pilgrim
loki can out perform any of its cruiser sized brothers, the muninn, vaga or the hugin/rapier
why wouldnt the prot have AT LEAST the same drone abilitys as the ishtar? p.s. prot cant (and has no real option) to fit its ew, damps, tho does ofc get the tasty range bonus which anyone would argue is decent.
tbh I still think there are better options than making the ishtar irrelevant.
that said, if you boost proteus drone bay, replace ishtar's gun damage bonus for something else drone related (and boost the other hacs's too. just because its T3, doesn't mean they should be better)
Do T3s make all other HACs irrelevant? Perhaps, but that's the way it should be. Atm, Ishtar is a notch above other HACs, but this imbalance not a justification onto itself.
|
Songbird
Gallente T.I.E. Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 02:31:00 -
[53]
If you don't want the HAC's to be made obsolete by T3 you should nerf tengu reaalllly hard since cerberus is all but extinct.
Anyway - there's twice more tengus than all other T3 put together - obviously the other T3's need some love.(something like 7k tengu , 3.5k of the other 3 T3 together)
damm it I gotta stop wasting time on the forums :)
|
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 09:21:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Grimpak on 15/05/2011 09:23:24
Originally by: Goose99 Do T3s make all other HACs irrelevant? Perhaps, but that's the way it should be.
no, they aren't.
and don't tout "omg they cost 5x/10x more.". cost is not a balance factor.
T3's are supposed to be able to mix and match capabilities (thus the name strategic cruisers) but not, in any way, outperform T2 ships (which are role-focussed) in their field.
if any, T3's show that certain HACs have issues that need solving. some more than others.
Originally by: Songbird If you don't want the HAC's to be made obsolete by T3 you should nerf tengu reaalllly hard since cerberus is all but extinct.
there are ways to boost the cerb without even touching on the tengu.
6th launcher, more space on fittings and 10-15m3 dronebay would make the cerb perfect in my view. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Noisrevbus
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 13:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
why wouldnt the prot have AT LEAST the same drone abilitys as the ishtar? p.s. prot cant (and has no real option) to fit its ew, damps, tho does ofc get the tasty range bonus which anyone would argue is decent.
Because it already out-do the Deimos, Eos and Astarte in their specific roles?
Not to mention, it obscures the Recons to a certain degree as well. Definately to a higher degree than a Tengu contend with dedicated ECM. Add ontop of that it's use as a cloaky scout with LR tackle and a sizable tank. Do you see any Tengu in that role? No. Then look at the Caldari HACs, what are their main feature? Extreme range sniping, something that did not roll over with the introduction of the Tengu, but rather something that has always been a nische and in recent years become even more exotic with the introduction of present day probing mechanics and the range nerfs to Recons. The reason the Tengu shine so much in regard to the Caldari HACs, CS and BS is because they are crap. The reason the Proteus do not get 125m3 bandwidth or ridiculous special bonuses to drones is because the Ishtar and Domi are quite capable ships.
The Proteus is a good ship, easily one of the best both within it's race (Gallente) and class (Tech III Cruiser).
|
Swynet
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 13:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Songbird Domi has 5drones x 1.5 damage mod so basically 7.5 drones effective. On top of that it has enough space for 3 sets of large drones.
Proteus (which costs 10x the domi, or 4x the ishtar or gila) should be buffed by getting 2x damage mod for drones. It's drone bay is smaller. Max it can launch is 4 large drones so basically it will have 4x2 it will be 8 drones effective. It can have only medium guns so compared to a domi it will still have less DPS.
No changes to the ship itself - only 1 subsystem is changed - the 5% bonus to hybrid damage morphs into 20% bonus to drones DPS(vs the original 10%)
I endorse this approach. Just make the Proteus a little different and slightly better from a pure drone perspective. It wouldn't utterly ruin the Ishtar, but it would provide a bit of variety and an advantage.
I'd rather like to see the Proteus be able to put out 10 light or 8 med drones or 6 sentry +125Mb/S OC (pulled out some numbers just for the example) at lvl5 drone sub than be able to carry 5 low brick bad tracking dps drones, this would make it T3 "Drone boat" imho, but in exchange would loose at least one of the hybrids bonus.
|
Dzajic
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 14:59:00 -
[57]
Yes Myrm with 5 heavies was OP. Same for ancient Eos. When it had uberdamps (and not modern loldamps), and drones regenerated shields instantly on scoop up. Nerf to damps and drone shield regen already de-toothed Gall ships; then bandwidth got introduced and nerfed them some more; and then "Great nano nerf" killed blasters as collateral damage.
Polished content =/= broken and unbalanced content. |
Sonya Kranz
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 16:11:00 -
[58]
If we compare the ishtar in its roles with the proteus with the drone subsystem theres very little reason to pick the proteus, because the ishtar is already so well designed that that it doesnt leave anything to be desired. So what would make you want to consider picking a proteus over an ishtar?
Adding 25 dronebandwith to the proteus is an obvious answer, but not the only one. When playing around with some fits for the proteus, i realized that it has a whole slew of lowslots that arent exactly needed for tanking, and useing more slots for extra dmg on guns then you actually have guns seems weird, so how about actually adding a turretslot, or even 2 depending on how the dps turns out, and on other subsystems That would boost it, without making it somewhat of a copy of the ishtar.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |