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Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Astroka on 21/04/2011 21:24:42 Currently when you dock in a station you are automatically (on Duality, of course) taken to your Captain's Quarters. Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
In before "docking is optional."
Edit: To clarify, I'm not complaining. I don't care about it. Just wondering since CCP seems to be going back on a previous statement.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:14:00 -
[2]
New and Original.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:19:23
Originally by: Astroka Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
Once upon a time, they SAID something to that extent, yes. Just one more (at least implied) promise they're (almost) breaking.
P.S. At least they MIGHT make it fully optional and you get a black screen. Just might. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Lets be clear, I could care less how this eventually turns out.
But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Should've figured someone would post and douche it up. I'm not complaining, it's just something I was wondering about. Maybe you should actually know what someone's talking about before you start being a complete *******?
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:23:00 -
[7]
Someone pass me a tissue because i REALLY AM CRYING.
I can't click drag my ships out into my hangar to make them active anymore.
RPers 1, Sig Sour 0.
Don't laugh at me cause I lost.
Don't troll me either cause I might cry even harder.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:25:57
SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the (_expected_) FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
Akita T never fails to raise a good point.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Lets be clear, I could care less how this eventually turns out.
But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
fitting window
spin ship
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:29:00 -
[11]
Last I checked, the normal hangar buttons are still present, so the station functions provided by Captain's Quarters are redundant.
However, if you were using Eve as a test/technology platform for your World of Darkness MMORPG, wouldn't you decide to make people use the Captain's Quarters interface in order to get feedback, make tweaks, and find bugs faster?
And is it really a good idea to present new players with redundant interface features?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Akita T SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
Akita T never fails to raise a good point.
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
They've proven in the past that that is not how they roll. If there are some casualties along the road to Incarna (which I personally believe none of us will see in our lifetimes, anyway) then so be it.
Upgrade or stick to Minecraft.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
They've proven in the past that that is not how they roll. If there are some casualties along the road to Incarna (which I personally believe none of us will see in our lifetimes, anyway) then so be it.
Upgrade or stick to Minecraft.
This, basically. I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times. And if you can't afford to, tough. There are plenty of games out there that are more gentle on the minimum specs than EvE.
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Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:13:00 -
[14]
I wish all upgrades were optional
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Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Trjula Industrial
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:16:00 -
[15]
Furthermore, if your work/office computer can't run it now thats probably a good thing as you can get actual work done. ---- --- ---
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 22:24:10
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
What is wrong with having "fallback" contingencies for SOME of the older computers, ESPECIALLY for people not interested in experiencing everything EVE has to offer from all possible locations they login from ? Hell, _IF_ they ever implement a web based skillchange, science, industry and trade frontend for people that are docked (because, let's face it, for those, EVEN A BLOODY TEXT MODE INTERFACE WOULD DO THE JOB JUST FINE), I wouldn't give a rat's ass if they make it so that the game client requires hardware that only came out half a year ago.
Originally by: Jovan Geldon I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times. And if you can't afford to, tough. There are plenty of games out there that are more gentle on the minimum specs than EvE.
[sarcasm]Yes, because alienating a portion of your userbase for absolutely no good reason makes PERFECT financial sense ![/sarcasm]
Just wait until CQ comes out when people will ACTUALLY start crying about what happened, as opposed to the people that preemptively complain now... see if you like the difference in complaint volume then. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:24:00 -
[17]
even if my pc can run CQ i dont want to be on CQ all the time i dock and yes CCP said many time that walking in station will be optional
if the CQ wont be optional the only solution is to hack around and remove all CQ textures to have a faster load when docking
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Trjula Industrial
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ceaon even if my pc can run CQ i dont want to be on CQ all the time i dock and yes CCP said many time that walking in station will be optional
if the CQ wont be optional the only solution is to hack around and remove all CQ textures to have a faster load when docking
Bolded the important part, you don't have to walk, you can stand around on your balcony all day.
---- --- ---
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
One of the major upsides of MMOs in general is low (comparatively) system requirements, they have to be compatible with basically any computer a person might reasonably using. Basically, they should still be thinking in terms of 5-year-old average hardware -- no one should ever have to upgrade to continue playing an MMO... if our entertainment budget for the month is like 15$, requiring 1500$ purchases of us would be the financial equivalent of the CEO making a batch of cyanide punch and having the whole company down a cup ritualistically.
That said, I haven't seen anything from Incarna so far that a 10-year-old machine couldn't handle, much less a 5-year-old one. They seem to be pretty safe on the vast majority of the userbase finding the content accessible. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
For tasks that require zero bling, yes. Yes they should. Market, PI, S&I, corp management ù none of that has any need whatsoever for loading a WIS interface. None. It is completely useless. And since there are people who play the game almost entirely engaging in those activities, there's sfa to gain from forcing them to load up an interface they will never ever use.
It's a waste of everyone's time and resources ù make it optional (i.e. keep what we have) and concentrate on making the new UI work for those who want more.
Quote: This, basically. I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times.
That's a deeply moronic view. When you want to use install and launch notepad to put down a couple of phone numbers you want to call later, do you want it to take 5 minutes to launch, take up 4GB of RAM, and require a couple of hundred megs per saved file? After all, it's 2011, and our computers can handle that with easeà
àor do you just want a simple function and limited functionality to correspond with being contained in a simple, lightweight app? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spurty on 21/04/2011 22:40:43 Excuse typos, ducking baseballs from kids practice. Got a ringer here
I too demand CCP take all graphics away completely so I can play on my casio digital watch. 4 buttons is 3 more than you nerd for cripple ware you numpties telling the pretty damned correct guy that it's 2011.
Without games pushing the bleeding edge you wouldn't have ever left the 8bit land.
Heck, 64bits frightens some of you and it's been around for 20+ years now.
If you want to play eve(a modern game) don't complain that your system can't handle it. Just admit defeat and return to fgbbing people in quake 1 ( or tribes, I hear it's now freeware)
Fizzt!
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Spurty Edited by: Spurty on 21/04/2011 22:40:43 Excuse typos, ducking baseballs from kids practice. Got a ringer here
I too demand CCP take all graphics away completely so I can play on my casio digital watch. 4 buttons is 3 more than you nerd for cripple ware you numpties telling the pretty damned correct guy that it's 2011.
Without games pushing the bleeding edge you wouldn't have ever left the 8bit land.
Heck, 64bits frightens some of you and it's been around for 20+ years now.
If you want to play eve(a modern game) don't complain that your system can't handle it. Just admit defeat and return to fgbbing people in quake 1 ( or tribes, I hear it's now freeware)
is not about that crap you post is the simple fact that ccp said walking ins station will be optional
also plz kill yourself in game
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
For tasks that require zero bling, yes. Yes they should. Market, PI, S&I, corp management ù none of that has any need whatsoever for loading a WIS interface. None. It is completely useless. And since there are people who play the game almost entirely engaging in those activities, there's sfa to gain from forcing them to load up an interface they will never ever use.
It's a waste of everyone's time and resources ù make it optional (i.e. keep what we have) and concentrate on making the new UI work for those who want more.
Again, if we were back in the days when CCP was running the Premium client and the Classic client, I'd be with you. But CCP doesn't want to waste resources accomodating different playstyles. I assume someone at CCP crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that maintains two separate lines of code that do the same thing was wasteful. They want to make one game. CCP wants CQ. They want the game to move forward.
AFAIK, they dropped the Linux client for similar reasons. Given the unreliability of the Mac client, I expect it to be next to go. I use the Mac client for only the purposes you outline above, because it cannot be counted on not to freeze when things get busy. If CCP drops the Mac client, I'll open up some space on it's HD by deleting the client. No skin off my nose.
Same discussion arose around the SM upgrades as well. And somehow we all survived. I'm sure we'll survive CQ as well. But I reiterate: given what's on Duality right now, I doubt you have anything to worry about for a little while. Worst case, they'll try to implement it and end up pulling it a day or two later.
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
One of the major upsides of MMOs in general is low (comparatively) system requirements, they have to be compatible with basically any computer a person might reasonably using. Basically, they should still be thinking in terms of 5-year-old average hardware -- no one should ever have to upgrade to continue playing an MMO... if our entertainment budget for the month is like 15$, requiring 1500$ purchases of us would be the financial equivalent of the CEO making a batch of cyanide punch and having the whole company down a cup ritualistically.
That said, I haven't seen anything from Incarna so far that a 10-year-old machine couldn't handle, much less a 5-year-old one. They seem to be pretty safe on the vast majority of the userbase finding the content accessible.
This. I am one of those people on a 5 year old machine (early 64 bit AMD.) I'm on a 2 year old video card ($100 card at the time.) I fall well within the "minimum requirements" for EVE, but over the past year I notice a significant decrease in performance quality with every single patch with absolutely zero gameplay enhancements to justify it. Client-side performance for EVE has never been worse. However, from reading the test server forums it sounds like some of the UI is being reworked to perform better (which is seriously the only thing in EVE I'm currently looking forward to.)
I know CQ on duality is still a work in progress, but right now loading with high shaders (as the devblog said is required right now) takes me 15 minutes or so. And even then I've got the bug where my avatar does not load, so I can't even use any of the CQ interface. If there was an option for "prompt on docking" I would probably sometimes go into the CQ if I planned on sticking around docked for a while, but I would prefer it didn't.
Since loading CQ takes so incredibly long, I've had the chance to notice that the old background loads anyway and it loads CQ on top of it. I would think it should be a simple matter of a "load environment" switch to make CQ optional.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla Again, if we were back in the days when CCP was running the Premium client and the Classic client, I'd be with you. But CCP doesn't want to waste resources accomodating different playstyles.
But that's just it: providing that option wastes zero resources ù the actual interfaces will remain exactly the same, only you have to do a bunch of irrelevant crap in the background. If "not doing crap" wastes resources, someone needs to go back to the design documents and actually write them so they make sense.
Not providing that option, on the other hand, wastes people's time.
Quote: AFAIK, they dropped the Linux client for similar reasons. Given the unreliability of the Mac client, I expect it to be next to go.
They dropped the Linux client because the Wine community kept the client running better than they did ù they were (poorly) duplicating work that others did faster and better. This is not the case with the Mac client.
Quote: Same discussion arose around the SM upgrades as well.
No, that's different: that's about what basic functionality a graphics cards needs to have in order to do everything in the game because doing it otherwise would require completely separate render paths. It would be a duplication of effort. This is about using exactly the same render path, but not loading and rendering certain things that simply aren't necessary ù there is no duplication of effort (other than admitting that some of the effort they put into some content isn't used by certain peopleà but how is that any different than having Titans in the game?) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises Peregrine Nation
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:24:00 -
[26]
Is it possible that CCP just dont have that feature on Duality since the only reason people would use that server is to test the quarters them selfes?
They have promised over and over again that it will be optional,but i honestly don't see why they would have that feature on a server,which at current time,is purely ment to test the Captain Quarters,not how fast you can dock/undock.
Just something to consider
Phoibe Enterprises
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: NightCrawler 85 They have promised over and over again that it will be optional
And that's all people are asking for : confirmation they WILL do it like that. Because in the fanfest CQ presentation, they said it's going to replace the current "docked" view. Not enhance. REPLACE. As in, NOT optional.
If the latest news is accurate, AT BEST we can hope for an optional "don't load anything at all", if even that. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Astroka Edited by: Astroka on 21/04/2011 21:24:42 Currently when you dock in a station you are automatically (on Duality, of course) taken to your Captain's Quarters. Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
In before "docking is optional."
Edit: To clarify, I'm not complaining. I don't care about it. Just wondering since CCP seems to be going back on a previous statement.
Yes you are correct Incarna patch is entirely optional, if you want Incarna you have to pay 50 USD or 3 PLEX.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sader Rykane But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
The ship doesn't spin. Your camera spins. The ship remains stationary.
(also it looks like they nerfed login/logout/login to defeat the 5-minute post timer.)
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:43:00 -
[30]
If people could just stop pretending that making a checkbox like we have now (for the station interior) to opt out of the cq is ultrahard and makes it less fun for those who want to use it. Such a simple option would be win/win and there is absolutely no reason to be against it except out of spite which is the sentiment that seems to be popular here. --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises Peregrine Nation
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:46:00 -
[31]
Arg..Write the post and it logged me out while writing...
In reply to Akita
Hmm if they have indeed decided to change this i would immagion/hope they will do it more like how it is atm.You still have to load moving ships and other effects when docking,and you will "see" the area you can walk in,but you wont actually leave your ship.If that is the case people with older/weaker computers shouldent have more problems then they currently have?
Please keep in mind that i dont know one thing about computers or programming, but i would believe that they will eventually,when the majorety of the testing is done, add an extra option to be able to leave your ship.Think like the current ingame character re-costumisation (sp).
I have not tested this my self,but i think we can be rather sure that when its all said and done we wont dock,and be thrown into the Captain quarters. Phoibe Enterprises
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.22 00:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: NightCrawler 85 I have not tested this my self,but i think we can be rather sure that when its all said and done we wont dock,and be thrown into the Captain quarters.
And yet, this is exactly what's been said it would happen during the fanfest presentation about CQ. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.22 00:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
EDIT:
Also I keep seeing this posted without reference/linkage:
Quote: simple fact that ccp said walking ins station will be optional
Quote: Since CCP does not intend to replicate existing gameplay on stations - that's right, players won't need to physically walk in the station to sell/trade their goods - what do they intend players to do? Not combat. While ...
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Andrev Nox
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2011.04.22 00:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Akita T
Just one more (at least implied) promise they're (almost) breaking.
More than implied.
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
We won't drag people kicking and screaming into Ambulation, you can just stay in your space ship and still enjoy EVE in your own way...
I guess she forgot to mention "....until you dock" :/
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.04.22 01:07:00 -
[35]
I have a modern computer (all parts less than 2 years of age, cept the case and the GPU which is 3). And I get about 1fps during CC. If CQ has the same terrible performance, then it won't just be those with old tech complaining.
*Note: have not tested CQ, so no idea on its performance.
And Miilla, where the heck did they (CCP) say that Incarna was going to be a payed expansion?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.22 01:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard And Miilla, where the heck did they (CCP) say that Incarna was going to be a payed expansion?
Nowhere. (S)he's just trolling. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.04.22 01:12:00 -
[37]
Thanks Tippia, just anted to make sure. Figured as much.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.22 01:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Thanks Tippia, just anted to make sure. Figured as much.
report him and maybe will get a temporary ban
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.22 01:37:00 -
[39]
One thing that rarely gets added to this debate is power consumption.
With our power cost doubling (and environmental cost) in the coming 6 months I don't wish to burn 650watt running a graphics card at 200deg just to have the station environment idle in the background.
This might not be in the perception of people who live in a country which is powered almost exclusively by hydro.
This feature MUST be optional.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.22 02:52:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/04/2011 02:55:02 I do think it's a bit early to accuse Incarna to be a resource hog based on an unoptimized alpha version. Of course it's a resource hog now. We will just have to wait and see.
As a very small side note, did you notice the careful wording in the blog that says that "currently" docking puts you directly on the balcony? Could mean nothing, could mean everything.
Edit: Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.22 03:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.
My graphics card is 50% of my power bill.
Currently Eve has nothing to render and I can background clients with no real added load.
Having a real-time rendered scene for no practical purpose is just waste. Just waste. Just waste.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.22 03:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1 Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.
My graphics card is 50% of my power bill.
Currently Eve has nothing to render and I can background clients with no real added load.
Having a real-time rendered scene for no practical purpose is just waste. Just waste. Just waste.
Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.?
That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.22 03:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.?
That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.
I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.
Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.22 03:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1
Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.?
That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.
I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.
Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.
Okay Doc, I'll quit yanking your chain, even though that fridge (unless it's tiny) uses vastly more power than the difference your graphics card would use rendering Incarna instead. However, since I don't really know you situation, I won't press the point.
See, I can be politically correct when I try.
... sometimes...
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.04.22 03:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:25:57
SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the (_expected_) FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
SOME people should learn to work when they are at work.
On second thought thats a frightening idea, forget I mentioned it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.22 04:17:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Akita T on 22/04/2011 04:23:30
Originally by: Ranger 1 even though that fridge (unless it's tiny) uses vastly more power than the difference your graphics card would use rendering Incarna instead.
A pretty sizeable 260-ish liter fridge of A++ energy efficiency (which most of those of today are) can be using as little as 200 kWh/year. The power consumption between low-demand 3D accelerated graphics (like in the case of an EVE client running on minimal graphics detail running with vsynch on in the background) and full power use for your machine can be as high as 200 W, but let's call it 150 W or so. Also, put in an average of 4 hours per day of EVE, and you might be able to get over 200 kWh/year.
Of course, that's the best case scenario for the fridge and one of the worse for EVE, you still get the idea.
While unlikely that it would matter very much under normal usage conditions, it's not quite negligible either.
Originally by: Kuronaga SOME people should learn to work when they are at work. On second thought thats a frightening idea, forget I mentioned it.
Well, some people are self-employed or running their own company, and some of them might not want to spend more than the minimum necessary for an "office" machine. Other people may want to check in and change skills or fiddle with market orders during a lunch break on their regular work, or during the few minutes almost anybody takes off every couple of hours or so to clear their head. Some others might walk around with EVE on a flash drive and plug it in at whatever computer is available where they travel. Or some others still might have a borderline decent laptop they use for EVE while on the road, and some of those might be on the road a lot. Or any other number of not quite so obvious "disregard for duty" scenarios which might be quite plausible where you might want to check on EVE (and you could right now) while not exactly at home on your gaming PC... assuming you even have such a machine at all in the first place, and not just using a laptop fulltime (because not everybody can afford both a laptop and a desktop so easily).
Just sayin'... _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Noxyra
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.22 05:34:00 -
[47]
I agree with Akita, and she does bring some very real and true arguments that I, myself, have been in the position of. I sort of liked the idea of CQ when I saw it, but after experiencing it, I can say that I don't hate it, but would rather just have an on/off button for. This, for me is going to be a big change. I like my industrial, research and market alt to be somewhere alt-tabbed down on the shortcut bar and use as little resources as possible while maintaining a very useable and functional UI. If I'll have to use the current CQ interface on an alt that is used only for "Excel Online" I might not use it at all due to the stuff that is totally useless to me and that clutters up my screen.
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theocratis
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Posted - 2011.04.22 06:21:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1
Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.?
That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.
I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.
Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.
I have an Nvidia 285 GTX not the most hungry card but still it was top of the nvidia line at one point. at idle it draws 1.05 volts. on tranquility it draws 1.15 volts. on duality(CQ test server) it draws 1.15 volts. it was a whole one degree hotter in station on duality vs tranquility. 85 vs 84
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.22 18:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Andrev Nox Very specific quotes
Those were precisely the types of quotes I was looking for. Thank you. I concede that it couldn't be anymore blatant of a change/lie.
In my meager defense, I've only been playing since 2008 and those promises/lies predate me. Although I'm still sifting through all of those FF2009 videos looking for that Q&A session where the question was asked in order to hear the tap dance that they performed. I remember seeing it, but can't find it on youtube.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.04.22 18:49:00 -
[50]
Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
While I do believe CCP intended for it to be optional back in 2008... back then it was designed from the ground up to be part of EVE online. Now, EVE Online only exists to feed/test the uninspired mess that is WoD. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.22 18:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.
Quote: uninspired mess that is WoD.
How so? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.04.22 19:13:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/04/2011 19:13:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.
Yes.
Watch parts of the Character Creator talk from the fanfest, and listen to how the WoD team was mostly responsible for the character creator. If it was meant for EVE, why did the other team make it?
Here's a fun story to consider. Ambulation was supposed to come out with the Trinity expansion with the rest of the grapical updates. Do you know what happened during the development of Trinity?
The White Wolf/CCP merger. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.22 19:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Yes.
No, it's not, because then Stephanie Meyers would sue the bejesus out of CCP. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:02:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 22/04/2011 21:03:16
Originally by: ceaon
Since CCP does not intend to replicate existing gameplay on stations - that's right, players won't need to physically walk in the station to sell/trade their goods - what do they intend players to do? Not combat. While ...
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation
Quote: When CCP looked at their game, they realized an overwhelming percentage of their subscribers were male and many people of both genders just could not relate to a game where people primarily identified with a spaceship, rather than a living being. As they continue to try to grow their game, they felt the need to fix the problem, but also did not want to change what made EVE Online so popular.
and yet, the goal armor for the single most popular mmo on the planet lookes like what you see at the below link . .
http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2010/september/tier11_rogue.jpg
Granted I do like the look of the armor they created for EvE, and would honestly play that game when its ready. unfortunatly thats not going to be for a few years yet.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:09:00 -
[55]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 22/04/2011 21:09:53
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/04/2011 19:13:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.
Yes.
Watch parts of the Character Creator talk from the fanfest, and listen to how the WoD team was mostly responsible for the character creator. If it was meant for EVE, why did the other team make it?
Here's a fun story to consider. Ambulation was supposed to come out with the Trinity expansion with the rest of the grapical updates. Do you know what happened during the development of Trinity?
The White Wolf/CCP merger.
wtf is wrong with you? Carbon is not WoD.
If you really listened you would know the same character creator is being used for Dust as well.
each art team in turn *dust,eve,WoD* then has to make their own art assets for the character creator. But the creator it'self is made for all three games.
how hard is that to understand?
also
Quote: Ambulation was supposed to come out with trinity
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ok for making me laugh, you get a like*
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/04/2011 02:57:32 I do think it's a bit early to accuse Incarna to be a resource hog based on an unoptimized alpha version. Of course it's a resource hog now. We will just have to wait and see.
As a very small side note, did you notice the careful wording in the blog that says that "currently" docking puts you directly on the balcony? Could mean nothing, could mean everything.
Edit: Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.
That being said, I"m all for Incarna being optional as long as it doesn't create too many headaches. Coding two different versions of everything that affects the station environment from this point on is a pain in the ass for anyone, but if it's possible then it should be done.
Ive been with too many development companies now.
Ive been in closed beta for AO, SWG, EQII and a few others.
Im seeing the exact same bad habits here,
I can look around, and see that they deliberalty striped down the CQ in order for it to function on most machines. they literaly removed textures shaders walls lights and objects because thoes would further impact system performance.
Yes it needs optimisation put in, and that will help. but unfortunatly there in the same boat that all of the other development companies are in, they are basicly sitting there and hopeing that moores law will bail them out...while ignoring the reality that they are also up against other factors (including there own art department) that insists on getting more and more and more and more out of the same engine while they are still developing it.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:18:00 -
[57]
Based on the power meter I have, my PC and monitors combined use more electricity than anything else in my house apart from the laundry and AC. (yes it uses more electricity than my refigerator and freezer) I would have to have all of my lights running 24 hours a day for them to use more power than my pc and it only runs about 4-6 hours a day.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: MotherMoon each art team in turn *dust,eve,WoD* then has to make their own art assets for the character creator. But the creator it'self is made for all three games.
Actualy when they were asked about this, they said flat out that there was no way for Carbon based characters to work on the PS3 OR the Xbox 360 and that Dust was still planed to be 360 compatable.
Granted theres also rumors out there that Sony and Microsoft may have released their next gen system benchmarks to some developers on the same day that Nintendo released the WII2 developer set.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.04.22 21:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: NightCrawler 85 They have promised over and over again that it will be optional
And that's all people are asking for : confirmation they WILL do it like that. Because in the fanfest CQ presentation, they said it's going to replace the current "docked" view. Not enhance. REPLACE. As in, NOT optional.
If the latest news is accurate, AT BEST we can hope for an optional "don't load anything at all", if even that.
Through all their presentations I've seen so far, the bolded part of your post was what they were communicating all along. So yeah, they'll replace the hangar view.
Where's the problem now?
I'll tell you where it is: You people countin' your chickens before they hatched.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.04.22 22:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: theocratis
I have an Nvidia 285 GTX not the most hungry card but still it was top of the nvidia line at one point. at idle it draws 1.05 volts. on tranquility it draws 1.15 volts. on duality(CQ test server) it draws 1.15 volts. it was a whole one degree hotter in station on duality vs tranquility. 85 vs 84
Watts, Jesus Christ, Watts and even then your figures are way way off.
Next time stay a wake in your physics lessons.
And we talking about power consumption or heat generation, here. ?
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.22 22:22:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Tippia on 22/04/2011 22:22:29
Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: theocratis I have an Nvidia 285 GTX not the most hungry card but still it was top of the nvidia line at one point. at idle it draws 1.05 volts. on tranquility it draws 1.15 volts. on duality(CQ test server) it draws 1.15 volts. it was a whole one degree hotter in station on duality vs tranquility. 85 vs 84
Watts, Jesus Christ, Watts and even then your figures are way way off.
Ehmà you know that those are perfectly normal voltages for that kind of graphics card, right? And that adjusting the voltage is a pretty standard thing to do to if you want to squeeze a bit more out of your card (or CPU for that matter)?
àgranted, seeing those kinds of voltage fluctuations based on the software that's running is kind of worrisome. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Theocrates
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Posted - 2011.04.22 22:24:00 -
[62]
Weeeeee!!! Scotty! I need more power!!
An interesting take on the "Internet Spaceships are serious business" line of Anti-Incarna thread. In the end it makes no sense for them to continue to support 2 interfaces for the same tasks. Down the road that's 2 code branches to keep updated and bughunt on and frankly they just may not work that well together. ***By coffee alone I set my mind in motion, by the beans of Java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, by coffee alone I set my mind in motion.*** |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.22 22:30:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Theocrates Down the road that's 2 code branches to keep updated and bughunt on and frankly they just may not work that well together.
I don't know if "don't do anything" really counts as a code branchà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Khanya Trace
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Posted - 2011.04.22 23:56:00 -
[64]
It doesnt affect me, but i dont see the reason to force those new hardware requirements on everyone just because of the new isolation cell feature that does nothing for 90% of eves playerbase and gets boring after 1 week.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.23 00:50:00 -
[65]
When they add new ships that isn't optional, they can shoot you, I am happy to have people in space and NON optional, it is a game that is growing. I think lacking avatars is the greatest weakness of eve.
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.23 00:59:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/04/2011 00:59:17
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel When they add new ships that isn't optional
When they add new ships, they aren't automatically loaded and displayed if there's no need to load it: unless you actually come across one.
Why should this environment be loaded and displayed when it's not needed? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.23 01:53:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 23/04/2011 01:54:17
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
While I do believe CCP intended for it to be optional back in 2008... back then it was designed from the ground up to be part of EVE online. Now, EVE Online only exists to feed/test the uninspired mess that is WoD.
^^
So very sad, but so very true.
edit: oh apart for it being developed for Eve..... Incarnia never really had anything to do with Eve. CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2011.04.23 03:14:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Dolm De''Mourne on 23/04/2011 03:14:33
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 23/04/2011 01:54:17
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
While I do believe CCP intended for it to be optional back in 2008... back then it was designed from the ground up to be part of EVE online. Now, EVE Online only exists to feed/test the uninspired mess that is WoD.
^^
So very sad, but so very true.
edit: oh apart for it being developed for Eve..... Incarnia never really had anything to do with Eve.
These claims bug me. Why would anyone with half a mind go through the effort of trying to combine the functions of Incarna with Eve when the purposes of testing an engine for avatars for a separate game based entirely on avatar gameplay? In the time wasted trying to make Eve and incarna work together they could have internally done all the alpha test they needed for WOD's engine separately. Even if it wasn't meant to be in Eve, Incarna still seems like dumb way to develop/test WOD.
Honest question, what an I missing?
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Ayieka
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Posted - 2011.04.23 03:51:00 -
[69]
well you're clearly missing your foil hat, everyone else has theirs on.
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Teranul
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Posted - 2011.04.23 03:54:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ayieka well you're clearly missing your foil hat, everyone else has theirs on.
+1
(I lol'd)
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Florestan Bronstein
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Posted - 2011.04.23 04:43:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 23/04/2011 04:46:11
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla Upgrade or stick to Minecraft.
very funny...
I guess you have never tried to run Minecraft on older hardware - my 2006 MacBook is still good enough to change skills, chat, do some market work or autopilot around (as long as station environment is disabled, all effects are at min, resolution is 1024x768 and you are zoomed all the way out in space); I get maybe 5 fps in Minecraft on that machine.
(that laptop did run EVE really well in classic mode btw )
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.23 04:56:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 23/04/2011 05:00:47 ITT: Lots of *****ing and moaning from people who own piece of **** comps they should have thrown out years ago
Get with the times, it's not like a decent comp is even expensive these days. If you want to play an MMO on your 2003 spec computer, WoW is that way --->
Anyone else feel the deja vu? It's the trinity whine allll over again...
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
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