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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.03 15:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hypothesis: It is possible, given careful planning and selection of lowsec system, to set up a mining operation that will outperform a hisec mining operation.
Outcome: Nope.
I was careful in my selection of lowsec system: no more than two jumps from high, a terminus system (only one gate), no station, not on a trade route, no links to null, very low traffic and a minimal history of ship-kills. I snuck into the system with a black-ops frigate just to take a look around, make some safe-spot bookmarks, etc. Everything looked good. So I brought my POS in-system and set up shop. The only difference between this setup and my hisec setup was the mining ship: I chose the Skiff over the Mackinaw due to the improved tank.
After a week, it was painfully obvious that even in this ass-end of lowsec nowhere, it is pretty much impossible to run a decent mining op anywhere in losec unless you have a ton of armed escort. Roaming pirates and gankers fly through the systems all the time; the logistics hurdles of getting your minerals through the game-camps (even in a transport) are excruciating. Had I been rocking any mining vessel other than a Skiff, I'd have lost it more than once (I love the tank on that little beast!).
The roids in low really aren't worth the extra effort. You get bigger rocks and the Hemorphite and Jaspet are good roids, but it's impossible to get a steady mining op going when you have to get safe every ten or twenty minutes and then wait until the bandit(s) leave the system. And there's always that one cloaky spy just sitting out there to spread the word when a miner pokes his head out of his safe-spot.
Lowsec is a waste of time if you're a miner. Hisec's ores are just as good, and it's a hell of a lot safer and more profitable to mine them. I gave it a fair shot because I honestly though that there would be a way to work the angles on lowsec mining, but unless you have a lot of armed escort or have complete control of a lowsec system, it's nothing but a time and money sink. Just focus your efforts on making your hisec ops more efficient, or make the move out to nullsec.
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.03 15:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Should have mentioned: this was not a solo op. I went in with three other corpies (and their alts).
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Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
48
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Posted - 2012.09.03 16:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ever been fishing? If you are in a low sec belt, you are the bait.
Really the low sec POS is for research/moon mining/PI collection. The fact that you can occasionally , cautiously mine while you are there is just a tiny bonus to give you some way of defraying the logistical costs of dragging everything over from High Sec to operate. |
Jason McCoy
Boricua en la Luna
41
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Posted - 2012.09.03 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah I agree low sec ores are crap the gain/vs risk is NOT worth it.
Now null or wh ores are a different story.
Low sec is better off for moon mining or reacting. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
201
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Posted - 2012.09.04 01:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
yes. this has been known for years.
one of the ways to minimize your exposure though is to get to know the local pirate groups. you will see roamer gangs from the same few corps many times getting to know their ceo's or individual pilots is a good way to make inroads to people who will buy your manufactured goods. or to fly cover when you have a nonlocal resident roamer gang around. Its not the easiest way to mine nor is it the most profitable. but can be another good inroad to nullsec as many lowsec roamer gangs are part of know nullsec operators.
However, because many of the larger nullsec alliances setup shop in lowsec for reactions or supercap storage or jump points, you will not be able to get blue status with most of them. CCP really hurt small holder lowsec operations when they removed the granulation of security standings a while back. Its harder to show the correct levels of friendly when the two that are available are taken by more important levels of access in nullsec. (safe travel but not dock, dock rights for nonalliance)
Site security is also a reason that NPC null is not mined exhaustively. for the same reasons as lowsec. being able to control who has access to an area is essential for a miner who expects to be exposed for hours on end. In lowsec no one can give you that. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
393
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Posted - 2012.09.04 01:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scordite, plag, veldspar, and pyrox are all better than all low sec ores and all but ark and bistot. The ores are really out of whack right now so I wouldn't need a test in low sec to tell you it isn't worth it. Check the program in my sig to see for yourself. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Minnie CargoBot
Tactical Stables Nulli Tertius
1
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Posted - 2012.09.04 05:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm going to be the one to disagree. I successfully ran a mining corporation in Amarr low sec in a dead end system with an ice belt for about 2 or 3 months.
We supported our mother corp with the ship replacement program. We just made friends with the local pirate group and we did have the occasional neutral come through but they hardly stayed very long knowing they weren't going to get any easy kills.
We had 5 miners, 1 hauler, and 1 Rorqual pilot. Only mineral we didn't have access too was Megacyte. So we had buy orders up in the stations a few jumps away and we even got lucky with the occasional Gravimetric site that had some in it.
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Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
37
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Posted - 2012.09.04 05:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well you did try, kudos, but yeah this business of getting cozy with pirates pfft, who the hell trust that sort, at some point they will get bored then come in and **** your mining op for lolz nah your better off mining in a .6 system has plenty of ore and atleast you can get things done, shhhhh....eve mail me and I'll tell you a secret on how to get TONS of veldspar worth well over $100 million isk and provided you have a crew. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
37
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Posted - 2012.09.04 12:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:
The roids in low really aren't worth the extra effort. You get bigger rocks and the Hemorphite and Jaspet are good roids, but it's impossible to get a steady mining op going when you have to get safe every ten or twenty minutes and then wait until the bandit(s) leave the system. And there's always that one cloaky spy just sitting out there to spread the word when a miner pokes his head out of his safe-spot.
Lowsec is a waste of time if you're a miner. Hisec's ores are just as good, and it's a hell of a lot safer and more profitable to mine them. I gave it a fair shot because I honestly thought that there would be a way to work the angles on lowsec mining, but unless you have a lot of armed escort or have complete control of a lowsec system, it's nothing but a time and money sink. Just focus your efforts on making your hisec ops more efficient, or make the move out to nullsec.
Very true. The only reason you want to mine in low sec is if you're passing the time waiting on targets to come through.
You did make a couple mistakes that may have caused a nightmare. Pick a low sec point off of a high sec island with stations. When you are in your pos someone can still see barges on scan that look like they could be in a belt or grav site so you'll get much more attention from roaming guys. When you get traffic swap to pvp fit ships and a skiff brick. Bait with the brick then kick someone's teeth in for messing with yo rawks. Do that a few times and you may not have much more trouble from the scrubs...but still even this way most of the time it will be 50/50 mining and fighting off intruders until you make friends that like your cheap minerals.
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Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative Paradox Alliance
80
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Posted - 2012.09.04 14:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is what the majority of the "nerf highsec" crew fails to address. If moving to lowsec actually was more profitable than staying in highsec, miners would find a way to be there. But the lowsec ores are such a joke, it's just silly to try. |
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.09.04 14:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:This is what the majority of the "nerf highsec" crew fails to address. If moving to lowsec actually was more profitable than staying in highsec, miners would find a way to be there. But the lowsec ores are such a joke, it's just silly to try.
That's more or less why I gambled about 1B ISK on this little venture: to see if it could be done profitably and on a reasonable scale. The answer (emphatically) is NO. The sharks that cruise lowsec constantly will not leave miners in peace long enough to make mining profitable. Mining requires hours and hours of uninterrupted time, and that's the one thing you never have in lowsec. The other hurdles I can deal with easily enough: I can set up a medium intensive refinery at my own pos so as to avoid running bulky ore; I can pimp out my deep space transport for running blockades; I can use my covert ops frigate to find nice hidey-holes and alert me when bad guys are on the prowl.
But in any small-to-medium sized mining op, I have to dedicate the bulk of my crew to gathering ore, not to patrolling the gate in combat ships. (And reimburse them for their expensive ships when they get blowed up.)
In the end, system security is everything to a profitable mining op. You have to provide enough protection to allow your barges to collect ore unmolested for hours at a time, or the op is just not worth doing. The efficiency hit you take for all the lowsec rigamarole make the whole thing a waste of time -- my yield out of my lowsec adventure was about half what I'd get out of a decent 0.8 hisec system, and that's just pathetic. And I only did that good because I did a ton of planning, scouting, and prospecting first.
I lost money on that little adeventure (would have lost a lot more had my transport been caught in lowsec hauling POS components, let me tell you). But it was a valuable learning experience -- for a miner, lowsec is a complete waste of time. Either stay in high and carebear away, or join a null alliance and grind up rocks in some deep-blue EVE backwater.
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Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative Paradox Alliance
80
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 15:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
A thrid, though inconsistent, option is what I sometimes do for fun. There are a lot of quiet C2s with links to highsec, allowing you access to ABC ores. The logistics is much better for a small group to pull off than how I do it, solo. But like I said, I just do it for fun.
Another option, similarly inconsistent, but not as dangerous, is scanning down grav sites in lowsec. You can mine in peace as long as you keep an eye out for probes.
But still, if you're trying to make consistent isk without joining a null corp, highsec is the only option.
It's really a shame, lowsec is really empty in some areas. It doesn't have to be. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 15:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
One additional point about industry in lowsec: I can't imagine what would make hisec industrialists want to live there.
You can mine moon goo and do POS research in lowsec, but for mining and manufacturing lowsec is a loser. The logistics headaches are even worse than in nullsec.
I've long wondered if it would be possible to have a mechanic where a corp could "rent" a lowsec system in return for a temporary bump in security status. This isn't a sov mechanic; you'd just be paying your Empire host a fee to provide CONCORD response in the system you're renting. The security rating of the system would stay the same, but aggro would be punished by CONCORD as it is in high as long as the rent has been paid. And these arrangements would be strictly of limited-time duration: as short as a day, maybe. And it would be expensive -- 100M to rent a system, per day. (That's the risk-vs-reward thing.)
I'm sure pirates would despise this kind of arrangement, but if CCP is serious about wanting to get industrialists into lowsec, that's the only way I can think of to make it worthwhile. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
123
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Posted - 2012.09.04 15:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Erm you think a system only 2j from high is a good choice?
Lo sec is more dangerous the closer to a hi sec entrance you are. What you really want is a dead end system far away from hi sec preferably with a station that refines but has little else going for it (that would attract others). |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Erm you think a system only 2j from high is a good choice?
Lo sec is more dangerous the closer to a hi sec entrance you are. What you really want is a dead end system far away from hi sec preferably with a station that refines but has little else going for it (that would attract others).
Not for mining. That's just a longer logistics chain to get your minerals up to hisec, which means more trips in a transport/hauler, which means a (lot) more opportunities to get ganked. And pirates keep track of who's coming and going, you know -- a miner making regular trips back and forth is bound to attract their attention. The shorter your route from lowsec to high, the better chance you have of getting your minerals to market.
Remember: mining efficiency isn't about how much ore you get into your warehouse. It's about how much you deliver to market.
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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
121
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
If your going to mine in low at least mine in a grav site. You will get better ore, peeps will have to scan you down which they won't bother too if your grav site and thus ship is off d-scan range of the gates they are traversing. The rats in grav sites are more predictable than belt rats with much longer spawns, Maybe around 3/4hr or so and if your lucky you will get a rat you can easily tank.
Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:If your going to mine in low at least mine in a grav site. You will get better ore, peeps will have to scan you down which they won't bother too if your grav site and thus ship is off d-scan range of the gates they are traversing. The rats in grav sites are more predictable than belt rats with much longer spawns, Maybe around 3/4hr or so and if your lucky you will get a rat you can easily tank.
1. You can't count on a grav site spawning in your home system (at least not outside of WH space). Out of the week-plus I was in my lowsec system, I never got a grav spawn. And there's no way I'd go hunting for a grav site in another system -- that's just more hauling and more gank opportunities. 2. Grav sites don't generate enough minerals on a weekly basis to make a permanent op pay off -- a decent crew can clean out a grav site in a few hours. 3. Grav site mining will buy you at most a few minutes until the pirate scans you down. You still have to get safe when a bandit comes in-system; grav mining just gives you a bit more time. (And in my experience, pirates probe. They're bored and looking for kills; it's not like they have anything better to do. If they don't find a bunch of fat-assed miners lurking in a grav site, they'll plex or run sig sites.)
Believe me, I've thought about this stuff. A lot. There's no way to crunch the numbers on lowsec mining unless you can bring a whole fleet with you, armed to the teeth. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
353
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think your best bet would be to join one of the pirate alliances in the area. One that has a lot of members that patrols their space during your TZ, and allows you to set up in return for ships/modules/ammo. That minimizes your corp needs for security, and gives you a local market for your goods. The lower you go in sec status, the more organization you need. It's just the way they've made the game. A small corp trying to do certain things just isn't going to work.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
394
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maybe the issue is that you treated low sec like a high sec alternative. It's really an alternative to nullsec because a corp could 'control' space without alliances or sov costs but the troubles and issues you have are very similar to null. Finding a high sec island for staging/logistics/manufacturing might be an alternative to your setup two jumps from high but ultimately you'll likely need jump capable ships to move product. For instance I mined this weekend and it cost me 14mil just in fuel costs to go back and forth to a 40% efficiency station with 10% tax all to make a few ships. I could have saved that 14 mil I guess by using amy freighter but...5 jumps with hostiles? No thanks. But ine end you an see te pain of industry in null...and thats just T1/caps...forget about T2.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
43
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Posted - 2012.09.04 16:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:1. You can't count on a grav site spawning in your home system (at least not outside of WH space). Out of the week-plus I was in my lowsec system, I never got a grav spawn. And there's no way I'd go hunting for a grav site in another system -- that's just more hauling and more gank opportunities.
Don't believe the Grav site wspace hype. Sure it's great when one shows, and sometimes you'll get a couple a week, but you'll also have weeks where there are none. I'm not saying it's not profitable, but it's not enough to sustain a mining corp unless they are rolling their static looking for systems with grav sites. |
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
37
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Posted - 2012.09.05 00:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:
Believe me, I've thought about this stuff. A lot. There's no way to crunch the numbers on lowsec mining unless you can bring a whole fleet with you, armed to the teeth.
Heh, that's funny. No, you don't need a whole fleet you just need to have BMF painted on the side of your retriever. It's not as profitable as sitting there for hours on end in high sec going brain dead BUT is it ok if I add in the price of 4 arbi heavy launchers some mission runner dropped in between filling my ore hold? If I can count that I'm pretty sure I make more after a numbers crunch.
Low sec mining is profitable with the new barges but not if ya just want to go in and whine that people won't leave you alone. That's not how it works you'll have to make them not want to bother ya....and grav site? Yeah, you won't see my probes those last for days and get corp marked as soon as they spawn. |
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative Paradox Alliance
81
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 11:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Low sec mining is profitable with the new barges but not if ya just want to go in and whine that people won't leave you alone. No, it isn't. Lowsec ores are virtually worthless. You're better off mining Veldspar in highsec. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
123
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 13:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Doddy wrote:Erm you think a system only 2j from high is a good choice?
Lo sec is more dangerous the closer to a hi sec entrance you are. What you really want is a dead end system far away from hi sec preferably with a station that refines but has little else going for it (that would attract others). Not for mining. That's just a longer logistics chain to get your minerals up to hisec, which means more trips in a transport/hauler, which means a (lot) more opportunities to get ganked. And pirates keep track of who's coming and going, you know -- a miner making regular trips back and forth is bound to attract their attention. The shorter your route from lowsec to high, the better chance you have of getting your minerals to market. Remember: mining efficiency isn't about how much ore you get into your warehouse. It's about how much you deliver to market.
Why don't you just move it through wormholes like everyone else? The only really dangerous part of lo sec is the hi sec entrance and there are three ways to circumvent that - cloaky haulers, jump freighters and wormholes. Cloaky haulers can't carry enough, jump freighter fuel eats into profits but wormholes are fairly straight forward. I used to use them to haul all my gas from deep hostile 0.0 with no problems, far safer than null or lo sec journeys.
Anyway surely anyone mining in lo sec has a customer in lo sec?
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 14:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Anyway surely anyone mining in lo sec has a customer in lo sec?
That's what I thought. That's why I invested a bunch of money in my little experiment: I figured that all those losec pirates and n'er-do-wells would need a local connect for minerals and manufactured items. I could charge a premium for being nearby, and could offer a competitive price on certain modules (neuts, warp scramblers, and the like).
But as it turns out...not so much. They just go to hisec like everyone else, or use hisec alts and contracts. Meanwhile, all the logistics hassles and lack of security in-system prevent mining and manufacturing from ramping up to any reasonable level.
I thought for awhile about trying it the other way: getting a lowsec path into null, and sell to null customers who don't want to travel all the way to hisec. One day I may try that strategy instead.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
149
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 14:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Doddy wrote:Erm you think a system only 2j from high is a good choice?
Lo sec is more dangerous the closer to a hi sec entrance you are. What you really want is a dead end system far away from hi sec preferably with a station that refines but has little else going for it (that would attract others). Not for mining. That's just a longer logistics chain to get your minerals up to hisec, which means more trips in a transport/hauler, which means a (lot) more opportunities to get ganked. And pirates keep track of who's coming and going, you know -- a miner making regular trips back and forth is bound to attract their attention. The shorter your route from lowsec to high, the better chance you have of getting your minerals to market. Remember: mining efficiency isn't about how much ore you get into your warehouse. It's about how much you deliver to market.
Well there is where you messed up in your careful planning. As Doddy said, for this to work you need to be in deep low sec with basically zero traffic. You are correct though that this would not work moving ORE or even minerals with DST or Blockade runners.
Logistics in this scenario is done with a jump freighter. If you are really serious about making really good isk you also need a Roqual in the mining system. This way you can pick a system far away from even a low sec station. Compressing ore to jump out is even more m3 efficient than moving refined minerals even if you can refine them at a low sec station at or close to 100%. Jump freighter logistics is fairly easy once you get used to it. You are always jumping into a low sec system next to high sec anyway, no matter where you are hauling from. 2 gate jumps from high sec or 20 gate jumps makes no difference to a jump freighter. So in this scenario deep low is much safer and works almost as good as null sec.
I would also use the opportunity to set up a reaction POS. Since you are in a fairly dead low sec system with no good moons(as good moons will bring in as much unwanted attention as a station) you can haul in the raw materials and haul out your reacted materials and compressed ore. With the right setup you can make over a billion per month just off the reaction POS and anything you make from mining will be gravy on top of that. Even with the drop in moon minerals such as tech there is huge profit in complex reactions.
Also blocks of compressed low ends sell very high in Jita. Just try to buy some at a price below the mineral value at 100% refine. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 14:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Well there is where you messed up in your careful planning. As Doddy said, for this to work you need to be in deep low sec with basically zero traffic. You are correct though that this would not work moving ORE or even minerals with DST or Blockade runners.
Logistics in this scenario is done with a jump freighter. If you are really serious about making really good isk you also need a Roqual in the mining system. This way you can pick a system far away from even a low sec station. Compressing ore to jump out is even more m3 efficient than moving refined minerals even if you can refine them at a low sec station at or close to 100%. Jump freighter logistics is fairly easy once you get used to it. You are always jumping into a low sec system next to high sec anyway, no matter where you are hauling from. 2 gate jumps from high sec or 20 gate jumps makes no difference to a jump freighter. So in this scenario deep low is much safer and works almost as good as null sec.
I would also use the opportunity to set up a reaction POS. Since you are in a fairly dead low sec system with no good moons(as good moons will bring in as much unwanted attention as a station) you can haul in the raw materials and haul out your reacted materials and compressed ore. With the right setup you can make over a billion per month just off the reaction POS and anything you make from mining will be gravy on top of that. Even with the drop in moon minerals such as tech there is huge profit in complex reactions.
Also blocks of compressed low ends sell very high in Jita. Just try to buy some at a price below the mineral value at 100% refine.
That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info!
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
149
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Well there is where you messed up in your careful planning. As Doddy said, for this to work you need to be in deep low sec with basically zero traffic. You are correct though that this would not work moving ORE or even minerals with DST or Blockade runners.
Logistics in this scenario is done with a jump freighter. If you are really serious about making really good isk you also need a Roqual in the mining system. This way you can pick a system far away from even a low sec station. Compressing ore to jump out is even more m3 efficient than moving refined minerals even if you can refine them at a low sec station at or close to 100%. Jump freighter logistics is fairly easy once you get used to it. You are always jumping into a low sec system next to high sec anyway, no matter where you are hauling from. 2 gate jumps from high sec or 20 gate jumps makes no difference to a jump freighter. So in this scenario deep low is much safer and works almost as good as null sec.
I would also use the opportunity to set up a reaction POS. Since you are in a fairly dead low sec system with no good moons(as good moons will bring in as much unwanted attention as a station) you can haul in the raw materials and haul out your reacted materials and compressed ore. With the right setup you can make over a billion per month just off the reaction POS and anything you make from mining will be gravy on top of that. Even with the drop in moon minerals such as tech there is huge profit in complex reactions.
Also blocks of compressed low ends sell very high in Jita. Just try to buy some at a price below the mineral value at 100% refine. That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info!
Yes Roquals can run in low sec, but so can dreads and carriers. The only thing keeping them out of high sec is the need for a cyno to jump to. Keep this in mind when setting up POS defenses. (I believe supers can not enter low sec but I may be wrong on that)
Deep low sec can make a great home. But without a jump freighter logistics is an absolute nightmare.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
37
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Low sec mining is profitable with the new barges but not if ya just want to go in and whine that people won't leave you alone. No, it isn't. Lowsec ores are virtually worthless. You're better off mining Veldspar in highsec.
Ok, let me word it for a miner level of comprehension. After all exploration sites are finished in a low sec system that is good for ganks but not so much for anything else there used to be almost nothing to do because jet canning is really dumb. So now instead of just hanging around with probes out or cruising a few systems looking for more targets I can just hang in a belt and let the drills fill an ore hold. All the high sec ore is there too and my rocks are always huge and juicy no matter what they are. Hell, I got a faction scram last night off a belt rat...can I count that on my mining isk per/hr compared to your high sec veld?
(to the dude above. Yes supers can enter low sec and no you should not use a rorq unless you know what you're doing with it. I killed one sitting in a belt with a mining geddon a few days after the barge buffs.) |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
317
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Posted - 2012.09.05 19:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vote in CSM 8 to keep your play style your own then. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
394
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Posted - 2012.09.05 19:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Well there is where you messed up in your careful planning. As Doddy said, for this to work you need to be in deep low sec with basically zero traffic. You are correct though that this would not work moving ORE or even minerals with DST or Blockade runners.
Logistics in this scenario is done with a jump freighter. If you are really serious about making really good isk you also need a Roqual in the mining system. This way you can pick a system far away from even a low sec station. Compressing ore to jump out is even more m3 efficient than moving refined minerals even if you can refine them at a low sec station at or close to 100%. Jump freighter logistics is fairly easy once you get used to it. You are always jumping into a low sec system next to high sec anyway, no matter where you are hauling from. 2 gate jumps from high sec or 20 gate jumps makes no difference to a jump freighter. So in this scenario deep low is much safer and works almost as good as null sec.
I would also use the opportunity to set up a reaction POS. Since you are in a fairly dead low sec system with no good moons(as good moons will bring in as much unwanted attention as a station) you can haul in the raw materials and haul out your reacted materials and compressed ore. With the right setup you can make over a billion per month just off the reaction POS and anything you make from mining will be gravy on top of that. Even with the drop in moon minerals such as tech there is huge profit in complex reactions.
Also blocks of compressed low ends sell very high in Jita. Just try to buy some at a price below the mineral value at 100% refine. That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info! We use rorq's to ship ore around in Null too. It's cheaper than a jump freighter and most times I don't need the extra space. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
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