The roids in low really aren't worth the extra effort. You get bigger rocks and the Hemorphite and Jaspet are good roids, but it's impossible to get a steady mining op going when you have to get safe every ten or twenty minutes and then wait until the bandit(s) leave the system. And there's always that one cloaky spy just sitting out there to spread the word when a miner pokes his head out of his safe-spot.

Lowsec is a waste of time if you're a miner. Hisec's ores are just as good, and it's a hell of a lot safer and more profitable to mine them. I gave it a fair shot because I honestly thought that there would be a way to work the angles on lowsec mining, but unless you have a lot of armed escort or have complete control of a lowsec system, it's nothing but a time and money sink. Just focus your efforts on making your hisec ops more efficient, or make the move out to nullsec.

This is what the majority of the "nerf highsec" crew fails to address. If moving to lowsec actually was more profitable than staying in highsec, miners would find a way to be there. But the lowsec ores are such a joke, it's just silly to try.

Erm you think a system only 2j from high is a good choice?

Lo sec is more dangerous the closer to a hi sec entrance you are. What you really want is a dead end system far away from hi sec preferably with a station that refines but has little else going for it (that would attract others).

If your going to mine in low at least mine in a grav site. You will get better ore, peeps will have to scan you down which they won't bother too if your grav site and thus ship is off d-scan range of the gates they are traversing. The rats in grav sites are more predictable than belt rats with much longer spawns, Maybe around 3/4hr or so and if your lucky you will get a rat you can easily tank.

1. You can't count on a grav site spawning in your home system (at least not outside of WH space). Out of the week-plus I was in my lowsec system, I never got a grav spawn. And there's no way I'd go hunting for a grav site in another system -- that's just more hauling and more gank opportunities.

Believe me, I've thought about this stuff. A lot. There's no way to crunch the numbers on lowsec mining unless you can bring a whole fleet with you, armed to the teeth.

Low sec mining is profitable with the new barges but not if ya just want to go in and whine that people won't leave you alone.

Not for mining. That's just a longer logistics chain to get your minerals up to hisec, which means more trips in a transport/hauler, which means a (lot) more opportunities to get ganked. And pirates keep track of who's coming and going, you know -- a miner making regular trips back and forth is bound to attract their attention. The shorter your route from lowsec to high, the better chance you have of getting your minerals to market.

Remember: mining efficiency isn't about how much ore you get into your warehouse. It's about how much you deliver to market.

Anyway surely anyone mining in lo sec has a customer in lo sec?

Not for mining. That's just a longer logistics chain to get your minerals up to hisec, which means more trips in a transport/hauler, which means a (lot) more opportunities to get ganked. And pirates keep track of who's coming and going, you know -- a miner making regular trips back and forth is bound to attract their attention. The shorter your route from lowsec to high, the better chance you have of getting your minerals to market.

Remember: mining efficiency isn't about how much ore you get into your warehouse. It's about how much you deliver to market.

Well there is where you messed up in your careful planning. As Doddy said, for this to work you need to be in deep low sec with basically zero traffic. You are correct though that this would not work moving ORE or even minerals with DST or Blockade runners.

Logistics in this scenario is done with a jump freighter. If you are really serious about making really good isk you also need a Roqual in the mining system. This way you can pick a system far away from even a low sec station. Compressing ore to jump out is even more m3 efficient than moving refined minerals even if you can refine them at a low sec station at or close to 100%. Jump freighter logistics is fairly easy once you get used to it. You are always jumping into a low sec system next to high sec anyway, no matter where you are hauling from. 2 gate jumps from high sec or 20 gate jumps makes no difference to a jump freighter. So in this scenario deep low is much safer and works almost as good as null sec.

I would also use the opportunity to set up a reaction POS. Since you are in a fairly dead low sec system with no good moons(as good moons will bring in as much unwanted attention as a station) you can haul in the raw materials and haul out your reacted materials and compressed ore. With the right setup you can make over a billion per month just off the reaction POS and anything you make from mining will be gravy on top of that. Even with the drop in moon minerals such as tech there is huge profit in complex reactions.

Also blocks of compressed low ends sell very high in Jita. Just try to buy some at a price below the mineral value at 100% refine.

That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info!

No, it isn't. Lowsec ores are virtually worthless. You're better off mining Veldspar in highsec.

That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info!

Ok, let me word it for a miner level of comprehension. After all exploration sites are finished in a low sec system that is good for ganks but not so much for anything else there used to be almost nothing to do because jet canning is really dumb. So now instead of just hanging around with probes out or cruising a few systems looking for more targets I can just hang in a belt and let the drills fill an ore hold. All the high sec ore is there too and my rocks are always huge and juicy no matter what they are. Hell, I got a faction scram last night off a belt rat...can I count that on my mining isk per/hr compared to your high sec veld?

You're right. But I think you and the OP are coming at this from different perspectives. He appears to be an industrial guy, primarily, while you're obviously a PVP oriented fella who does the exploration/mining stuff to pay for other endeavors. So I still think, for him the risk may outweigh the reward.

Yes Roquals can run in low sec, but so can dreads and carriers. The only thing keeping them out of high sec is the need for a cyno to jump to. Keep this in mind when setting up POS defenses. (I believe supers can not enter low sec but I may be wrong on that)
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[quote=Din ChaoIn the end, system security is everything to a profitable mining op. You have to provide enough protection to allow your barges to collect ore unmolested for hours at a time, or the op is just not worth doing.

This is what the majority of the "nerf highsec" crew fails to address. If moving to lowsec actually was more profitable than staying in highsec, miners would find a way to be there. But the lowsec ores are such a joke, it's just silly to try.

WRONG, do you not see the size of them floating turduckins compared to hi sec roids they are massive, the problem is the people there make the bed they live in.

you are pretty ******** to jump a JF to anything outside of a dock range.

Or at a POS were you are 120% positive nobody will notice it untill the freighter moved inside the shield (6KM max if the cyno was lit right on the shield). That means the system with the cyno and any system next to it empty.

Don't low sec have the same ores as high sec or? Just in greater amounts on one riod?
If so wouldn't it be more profit mining say like pyrox or plaig there? You just need protection.

Sounds to me like you need to invest in a jump freighter. I have sucessfully mined lowsec for jaspet on quite a few occasions and this is all made possible by a few jump freighter runs out of the far reaches of lowsec. I'm talking about areas of space where there are 3 jumps a day type places that dead end into nothing.

Now if I was a betting man I would say that you were 2 jumps into low sec at a dead end, that was at most 7 jumps from a trade hub, and your conclusion that it wasn't on a trade route was wrong. It was probably a dogleg system that people just check because of a possible ice belt?

If you want to do it successfully you have to get out there far enough that noone has a reason to be there. There are hundreds of lowsec areas like that. Try one of those.