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Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:11:00 - [61] Originally by: SencneS Grendell - That's good to know, and your answer is worthy of the reputation you uphold. To answer my own question, if you where offering up a 200b ISK bond for BB and held more then 200B collateral and the interest was acceptable, I would likely invest. Partly because I wasn't scammed by BB (I sold my shares long before the scam happened) and the fact that particular bond is covered up to or above the requested amount. I don't think many could make a solid argument for the bond being risky. About the best argument would be delays selling the collateral. Morals don't have a much room in business, but it's nice to think that a trusted businessman has some thought to not hide publicly admitted and proudly self proclaimed scammers. I do like the idea that there is some sort of moral integrity is part of every business. Just as the 3rd party has the ability to turn down the business, the 3rd party has the ability to make some of, lack of a better word, "Standards". If I were in your shoes I wouldn't deal with the public on behalf of an anonymous party. I know thats not conducive to business, but open and honest with no hidden or gray areas is better in my opinion. Don't take this personal, you do a better job then most, and you have a consistent presence in MD and other forums. I just don't like the idea that if I choose to invest I could be assisting someone who has scammed me. So I personally avoid anonymous offers. Thank you for your compliments. Originally by: Liberty Eternal On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security? If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. Grendell ♥
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 22:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response. My pleasure! Thanks for the feedback Grendell ♥
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.05.03 02:53:00 - [64] I suppose you don't know what alts are for. HINT: If you want to remain anonymous use an alt. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.03 05:33:00 - [65] Small update, Ive contacted my client to ask his permission about confirming he is not my imaginary friend. He's agreed to allow me get confirmation through a 3rd party, I'm assuming nobody would have any objections with Chribba? If not Chribba I can also ask Tornsoul, either I think would suffice. Grendell ♥
Xemoxa	Posted - 2011.05.03 05:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response. This is a truely pathetic request and waste a of time. Dude spends all this energy being a thorn in Grendell's side about security, then he'll be satisfied by a request that, without a shred of doubt, proves nothing. Let us all rest in peace knowing that Liberty Eternal is satisfied in knowing that Grendell doesn't know how to make an alt if needed. You know how trusted 3rd parties work? You have to trust someone. All your stupid questions and suggestions for added complexity won't change that basic fact. You don't like how the trusted 3rd party system works? Then gtfo and go bother some unsecured bond noobs with your timesome posturing.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.03 06:06:00 - [67] Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 03/05/2011 06:07:51 Thanks Grendell, good to hear. Also, Grendell can't just make an alt - he has already stated that both the blueprints and their owner are publically known and can be found through a quick evesearch. The third party will be able to verify this for consistency, meaning that an alt won't do it. Originally by: Grendell Basically I can't divulge the exact BPO's, as it would give clues as to who the client is. Thanks eve-search.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.03 06:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 03/05/2011 06:07:51 Also, Grendell can't just make an alt - he has already stated that both the blueprints and their owner are publically known and can be found through a quick evesearch. The third party will be able to verify this for consistency, meaning that an alt won't do it. You know, I happen to see a publicly known person who had a business which operated with very recognizable BPOS posting here a lot more lately. Correlation with this bond? Causation? And, if a third party confirmed the existence of someone other than Grendell then Grendell could not use an alt (or an obvious one) since for the verification to be meaningful at all the party with the bpo's needs to be credible. And I think Chribba is smarter than to fall for "NotaGrendell Alt" Whats up bobby did your scam funds run out already?
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.03 08:10:00 - [69] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles You know, I happen to see a publicly known person who had a business which operated with very recognizable BPOS posting here a lot more lately. Whats up bobby did your scam funds run out already? Yes. You've got me. I frittered it all away on quafe and exotic dancers. Fortunately Grendell is there to save the day.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.04 04:05:00 - [70] Small update were about 25% filled now. Still waiting on word from Chribba, if it takes too long I can speak to Tornsoul. Will keep everyone posted on this. Grendell ♥
Salome Musashi Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:50:00 - [71] If there were ever a good, conservative Eve bond to invest in, this is it. But folks are right, the rates are too low. For small-time investors, the return is lower than datacore research agents, and the big boys are probably looking for something riskier with a higher payoff. For example, a 20b ISK investment would buy me a PLEX every month, which would rock, but I don't have 20b to invest. Good luck, Grendell, I'll keep thinking about it, maybe I'll change my mind. This would be an excellent investment for a corp with some extra billions, though.
Cesar Menage MenageTech	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:30:00 - [72] wow thats a big amount We sell anything that we can make a buck on
RAW23	Posted - 2011.05.04 10:16:00 - [73] Edited by: RAW23 on 04/05/2011 10:17:32 Edited by: RAW23 on 04/05/2011 10:16:05 Originally by: Grendell Current Investors: Anonymous I - 20b jyppy - 20b Anonymous II - 50b ... Investing: > Reserve an amount 1b+ with increments of 1b. > Post your reservation here > Eve-mail your reservation for anonymity > The monthly intervals will be the 1st of each month From a purely procedural perspective anonymous out-of-thread investments leave some security gaps that could be plugged without too much effort and without surrendering their anonymity. The concern is that when a chunk of the investment is not booked in the thread it is easy for the offeror to claim that person pulled out and then resell their stake in the investment multiple times via private convos (i.e. the Curzon Dax approach). This potential problem can be removed by having the anonymous investors post their reservations with anonymous alts and also post if they back out. Of course, the alts could be the OP's but as long as things are tracked in the thread and any reselling of their stakes is done here, that doesn't matter as it still won't be possible to resell the same stake twice, so long as all investors insist on all business being done via the thread and don't send any isk until the relevant posts are made.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:50:00 - [74] Edited by: Grendell on 04/05/2011 14:49:56 Originally by: Salome Musashi If there were ever a good, conservative Eve bond to invest in, this is it. But folks are right, the rates are too low. For small-time investors, the return is lower than datacore research agents, and the big boys are probably looking for something riskier with a higher payoff. For example, a 20b ISK investment would buy me a PLEX every month, which would rock, but I don't have 20b to invest. Good luck, Grendell, I'll keep thinking about it, maybe I'll change my mind. This would be an excellent investment for a corp with some extra billions, though. Thanks for the compliments! Originally by: RAW23 From a purely procedural perspective anonymous out-of-thread investments leave some security gaps that could be plugged without too much effort and without surrendering their anonymity. The concern is that when a chunk of the investment is not booked in the thread it is easy for the offeror to claim that person pulled out and then resell their stake in the investment multiple times via private convos (i.e. the Curzon Dax approach). This potential problem can be removed by having the anonymous investors post their reservations with anonymous alts and also post if they back out. Of course, the alts could be the OP's but as long as things are tracked in the thread and any reselling of their stakes is done here, that doesn't matter as it still won't be possible to resell the same stake twice, so long as all investors insist on all business being done via the thread and don't send any isk until the relevant posts are made. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll mail them and ask them to make an alt for posting purposes. Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:52:00 - [75] Investor "Anonymous I" Has raised his reservation from 20b to 50b. I've updated the main post to reflect that. Grendell ♥
Miasma May	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Grendell Investor "Anonymous I" Has raised his reservation from 20b to 50b. I've updated the main post to reflect that. Anonymous I's anonymous alt checking in for stake tracking/reselling verification. I don't check evemail on this alt anyway, so any correspondance to me regarding this bond not from Grendell should be done publicly through this thread only. MM
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:37:00 - [77] Originally by: RAW23 Hey RAW as per your suggestion I've asked both anonymous investors to create random alts. Anonymous I has done so and posted, Anonymous II informed my he/she has no room on their account to create a an alt. But any future Anonymous investors, I will ask them to create an alt for the purpose of the thread. (If they have room to do so) Grendell ♥
TornSoul BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.05.06 17:05:00 - [78] Edited by: TornSoul on 06/05/2011 17:11:09 Originally by: Grendell Originally by: Liberty Eternal On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security? If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. Hereby confirming that the party represented by Grendell is not Grendell himself. This has been verified via EVE mail. ------ caveat : This in no way confirms the existence of collateral, nor do I know the business plan or any other details. It simply confirms that there exists a party, well known to me (for years as it so happens), that I'm 100% certain is not Grendell himself, that claims to be the party on which behalf Grendell is issuing this bond. The validity of this claim (due to the identity of the party) I personally trust. BIG Lottery
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.06 18:59:00 - [79] That means it's Torn Soul Only a handful of people could utilize this amount of capital effectively and not be tempted by running off with it. This means the anonymous party is wealthy in their own right, but just doesn't capital available to initiate their project. Also two big anonymous investors for over 50B each. Means those two anonymous investors know who the anonymous party is. And that those people with big pockets trust the party. I somehow doubt it's someone new, the fact that Grendell is involved shows the anonymous party is someone who has been around long enough to know the right channels. Since Torn Soul has commented on it it's confirmation that the person is well know, has been around for a long time, and if the party was a scammer I'm sure TS would have give that information. Maybe not the name, but would have warned people about the parties history. That's a pretty narrow list of people left. So what are you making TS? Amarr for Life
TornSoul BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:11:00 - [80] Originally by: SencneS That means it's Torn Soul Originally by: TornSoul nor do I know the business plan or any other details. BIG Lottery
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:27:00 - [81] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: SencneS That means it's Torn Soul Originally by: TornSoul nor do I know the business plan or any other details. Well that solves that then. Amarr for Life
No You're Not	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:43:00 - [82] Got to know when to hold'em know when to fold'em know when to walk away Know when to run. You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table there'll be time enough for countin' when the ~~dealin's~~ stealin's done
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.06 21:17:00 - [83] ..I would like a trusted third party to confirm that TornSoul is not one of Grendell's alts. EMIRITE LIBRTY?
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.06 21:50:00 - [84] Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I would like a trusted third party to confirm that TornSoul is not one of Grendell's alts. EMIRITE LIBRTY? Yer sumfing verry suspishus going on hear! On a more serious note, thanks Grendell - making offerings more secure can only be a good thing
No You're Not	Posted - 2011.05.07 18:48:00 - [85] I think this is a scam. He's going to cash in and cash in big. I touched up this following bit of song for the occasion, and I would like you to note how it's a directly relevant, satirical take on the situation, complete with the easily understood implication (at least it's easy for anyone with wit[s], which, unfortunately, does not include the oaf who had my previous post deleted from this thread because such subtleties of the writing arts elude him) that it is directed at Grendell: Got to know when to hold'em know when to fold'em know when to walk away Know when to run. You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table there'll be time enough for countin' when the stealin's done --Adaptation of a work by Kenny Rogers Were he disposed to do so, he might respond with a verse or two taken from song or, perhaps, self-composed--an exhortant refutation of my unbearable accusation. Or he might not. Now that I have bracketed my verse with explanations and annotations, perhaps I can stay the hand of the invisible editor who could not be bothered to explore the possibility that conversations can occur in any number of forms, verse among them.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.10 16:22:00 - [86] Bump, read the thread. Grendell ♥
Triffid PieMuncher	Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Grendell Bump, read the thread. We've read it. Computer says 'no'
Mindlles	Posted - 2011.05.15 21:17:00 - [88] 3b for me.
spiked amarr Invicta.	Posted - 2011.05.16 23:48:00 - [89] Id like to reserve 5bn worth of shares.
JabJabVVV Burger Nips	Posted - 2011.05.18 09:53:00 - [90] I'd like to reserve 1bn please. ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.

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