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Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.04.30 22:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Grendell on 30/04/2011 22:45:28 Hello fellow MD readers, On behalf of an anonymous party I will be gathering funding for a 350b bond. Because the duration of the bond the interest rate will be lower than the current standards used in MD. Given the stability and intended duration of the bond it will make up for all those times investors have isk sitting idle looking for a new investment. So it would largely equate to the same returns. > Once a month, the interest payment will be made, likely to be done within the 1st week of each month. > In the event of a default, investors will be refunded their capital investment and accrued interest to that point if possible. Any isk after the liquidation will be taken as my fee. > Previous public and private investors will get priority, as will larger investors over smaller investors. This is to make things easier for me. The anonymous party will be transferring collateral over to me to cover to full amount of the bond. Collateral will be in the form of various T2 BPO's. Each BPO has been under-valued 15% below market value as I'm extra cautious with this volume of ISK and I don't like the standard 10% safety net. The total Bond size will be 350b isk. The terms: 1b isk minimum investment 1b investment increments 1.75% monthly interest No fixed duration (Approximately 2-4 years) Cash out requests requires a 1 month notice, and will be cashed out as funds are available Periodically the bond will be lowered as the client buys back bonds from investors. Current Investors: Reserved. Notes of interest: Reserved. Backup Investors: Reserved. Investing: > Reserve an amount 1b+ with increments of 1b. > Post your reservation here > Eve-mail your reservation for anonymity > The monthly intervals will be the 1st of each month Previous Public Offerings Public Offering for 225b Link Public Offering for 100b Link Grendell ♥
Tom Hagen	Posted - 2011.04.30 22:38:00 - [2] Intresting
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.04.30 22:40:00 - [3] Edited by: Grendell on 30/04/2011 22:45:53 Reserved. Grendell ♥
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.04.30 22:47:00 - [4] Damn Investor Relation \| BSAC SE Listing
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.04.30 23:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Grendell 1.75% monthly interest If this was higher I'd invest in this, sadly this is way to low for me.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.05.01 00:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Grendell 1.75% monthly interest If this was higher I'd invest in this, sadly this is way to low for me. This is getting close to EvEBOR, which I estimated to be from 1.25 to 1.50%. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Kethas Protagonist Protagonist Ventures	Posted - 2011.05.01 03:26:00 - [7] "EvEBOR"? On a possibly related note, wasn't Block trying to estimate the global effective risk-free discount rate?
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.05.01 03:51:00 - [8] We'll see if 350b is Grendell's breaking point...
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.05.01 03:53:00 - [9] A first attempt at gauging the effective 30-day interest rate resulted in <R30> = 3.53 %. I think this number is a bit high, and to get a better number it requires multiple interactions. I have a few questions. 1)How much collateral are you holding at this time? 2)Would you be issuing shares to manage the bond? 3)Would you allow bond holders to list in the Exchange? BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.05.01 05:57:00 - [10] Well grendell , i'm out for various reasons but to keep it short 350B in T2 bpo's only 15% over collateral and the interest rate are my main concern. Good luck and cya soon.
TornSoul BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.05.01 06:49:00 - [11] 1.75% is too low for me. BIG Lottery
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2011.05.01 07:24:00 - [12] 2 Red flags for me: 1. Interest is simply too low to consider. 2.5% if I was holding the collateral would be as low as I'd go. 2. It requires trusting you Grendell. Nothing personal but time has shown that no one is trustworthy in eve. No matter how squeaky clean their previous dealings. --------------------------------------
Lord Wickham	Posted - 2011.05.01 10:07:00 - [13] Nothing in eve has a stability rating for that period. Would need to be revalued every 6 months. Can't see any way to counter act this.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.05.01 10:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Loraine Gess We'll see if 350b is Grendell's breaking point... For a brief moment, c.750bil potentially. 350 in cash plus the c.400 in BPOs.
Candy Oshea Amarr Techfree Investment Group	Posted - 2011.05.01 11:20:00 - [15] Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. Think about it. if it was even 3% this would have been filled. If he wanted to scam he would have inticed ppl in with a decent interest rate. (10%+ ) Grendell appears to me as a shrewd businessman, who is in this offering, is loaning @ say 3-5% to his customer & is trying to eep every little bit of cash out of it & fair enough too. Best of luck with your Bond Grendell. ___ iCandy Bonds
Florestan Bronstein Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.05.01 11:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Candy Oshea Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. to lure you into thinking that this offering can't be a scam
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.05.01 12:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Originally by: Candy Oshea Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. to lure you into thinking that this offering can't be a scam Offering at least 3% would have probably filled this offer by now. The interest is simply too low to attract the majority of investors. However I am sure there are people with tens of billions laying around and nothing to do with it that might possibly step in.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 14:20:00 - [18] Hey everyone, sorry for the late reply I had family show up unexpectedly. I'd ask everyone to please keep EvEBOR and other in-directly related discussion out of here, as I don't want it the thread to get de-railed. Now off to the questions! Originally by: Block Ukx 1)How much collateral are you holding at this time? 2)Would you be issuing shares to manage the bond? 3)Would you allow bond holders to list in the Exchange? 1) The collateral is conservatively worth just under 410b. On top of the conservative evaluation, I took off another 15% as a safety net. 2) No shares for the bond will be issued to pay out interest. The EvE share system has far to many long term problems that I'd like to avoid. 3) I don't see the need to. I don't want people swapping around their bonds unless it goes through me. I like to keep things simple, and organized centrally. Originally by: flakeys Well grendell , i'm out for various reasons but to keep it short 350B in T2 bpo's only 15% over collateral and the interest rate are my main concern. Good luck and cya soon. As stated to Block the BPOs have a 15% safety net deducted from their conservative evaluation, so the total safety net is actually larger then 15%. Thank you for the wishes, I'm sure I'll see you in future bonds. Originally by: TornSoul 1.75% is too low for me. Interesting, I might have a proposition for you. Originally by: Ambo 2 Red flags for me: 1. Interest is simply too low to consider. 2.5% if I was holding the collateral would be as low as I'd go. 2. It requires trusting you Grendell. Nothing personal but time has shown that no one is trustworthy in eve. No matter how squeaky clean their previous dealings. 1. The collateral has to stay in my hands as the client trusts me and would like to remain anonymous. So can't budge there. 2. Well I can't force anyone to trust me, to each their own. Originally by: Lord Wickham Nothing in eve has a stability rating for that period. Would need to be revalued every 6 months. Can't see any way to counter act this. Generally the only items that have consistently risen in price has been T2 BPO's. Overall each BPO has it's frequent fluctuations in the market based on profits. Negating the daily fluctuations in profits, the profit trend for most BPO's is generally stable. Don't forget this isn't 1 BPO either, it's across multiple BPO's. So I can guarantee that during the duration of this bond some BPO's will drop in value, but I can also guarantee that some others will rise in value. Simba the Circle of Life! (Sorry had to say it) Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Loraine Gess We'll see if 350b is Grendell's breaking point... For a brief moment, c.750bil potentially. 350 in cash plus the c.400 in BPOs. That's exactly right, as I will need to hold the isk and BPO's as collateral simultaneously for a brief amount of time. Originally by: Candy Oshea Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. Think about it. if it was even 3% this would have been filled. If he wanted to scam he would have inticed ppl in with a decent interest rate. (10%+ ) Grendell appears to me as a shrewd businessman, who is in this offering, is loaning @ say 3-5% to his customer & is trying to eep every little bit of cash out of it & fair enough too. Best of luck with your Bond Grendell. Sadly I couldn't offer a higher rate of return as there is my client's baseline of what he is willing to pay monthly, and then there is my fee that I have to take out for me. Thank you for your compliments and the idea you just gave me. Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Originally by: Candy Oshea Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. to lure you into thinking that this offering can't be a scam I can't argue people to trust me, in the end everyone has to stick to their comfort level, no harm in that and completely understandable. I'm paranoid by nature myself. Grendell ♥	Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 14:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Originally by: Candy Oshea Pretty clearly not a scam, why would he offer such a low interest rate. to lure you into thinking that this offering can't be a scam Offering at least 3% would have probably filled this offer by now. The interest is simply too low to attract the majority of investors. However I am sure there are people with tens of billions laying around and nothing to do with it that might possibly step in. I completely agree, had the rate been 2.5-3% I suspect this would be very close to full by now. This offering is more intended on the investors looking for long term stability. Basically the way I see it is; When and if the usual trusted 3% investments comes around, there is a lot of down time where I'm sure many investors have their isk sitting idle not really doing anything for them. So given the intended duration, this would close those unpaid gaps and generally balance out overall. Not only by stability in the rate and no idle time. But also due to the fact that there's also a risk of scamming in those offerings, which would drop the average rate of return even lower. So in the end it really still revolves around trust and peoples comfort levels. Ok I think I got everyone's questions/commentary. Hope I didn't miss anyone. Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 14:39:00 - [20] Thank you candy for the spark you set off in my head, as I've made the following change: 1.75% monthly interest for investments below 50b 2% monthly interest for investments above 50b Grendell ♥
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.01 14:53:00 - [21] Edited by: Rafia Landras Audeles on 01/05/2011 14:54:25 Is there any proof beyond your word that the collateral exists? I would think that things are getting perhaps... a bit high. Lets not forget that cosmoray very successfully ran a similar structure with nonexistent collateral for ponzi funding scams (or so he claims, he may be a garden variety failure, however). Either way this is a huge step up from previous bonds, and if we assume that Grendell is not ****ed (and if he was he wouldnt be a successful 3rd party) then we can assume that he would make an offering where he was to scam look as if he wasn't** going to scam (re: interest). It also helps with misdirection. Notice that a lot of the discussion is not that the bond is over one third of a trillion isk, but rather that the interest is too low. Finally, I wonder.. Was Grendell the good guy in Beowulf?
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 15:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Grendell on 01/05/2011 15:21:34 Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Is there any proof beyond your word that the collateral exists? Nothing but my word and my good Amarrian looks. Basically I can't divulge the exact BPO's, as it would give clues as to who the client is. Thanks eve-search. Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles I would think that things are getting perhaps... a bit high. Lets not forget that cosmoray very successfully ran a similar structure with nonexistent collateral for ponzi funding scams (or so he claims, he may be a garden variety failure, however). Very different structure, if I might say. He was running a business, I'm the middle man in a transaction. Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Either way this is a huge step up from previous bonds, and if we assume that Grendell is not ****ed (and if he was he wouldnt be a successful 3rd party) then we can assume that he would make an offering where he was to scam look as if he wasn't going to scam (re: interest). The previous bond was 100b, but don't forget the bond before that was 225b. I would like to think I'm not **ed, I do quite well with my 3rd party service with over 10 Trillion isk in 3rd party transactions. During the 225b bond I at the peak held 595b in other peoples assets and isk. So really not that much of a leap. Originally by:** Rafia Landras Audeles It also helps with misdirection. Notice that a lot of the discussion is not that the bond is over one third of a trillion isk, but rather that the interest is too low. Well it's understandable why there is a lot of discussion about the rate as it's not the norm seen in MD. I suspect why people aren't too stiff on the total amount is because I've handled larger amounts with out any issues. Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Finally, I wonder.. Was Grendell the good guy in Beowulf? He certainly was not! He's considered the one of the antagonists in the story. You knew that, but I do answer even the most obvious questions! EDIT: Spelling Grendell ♥
Lord Wickham	Posted - 2011.05.01 15:24:00 - [23] Grendell are you still allowing the owner of the bpo's production rights over them? If so then surely a better rate can be reached? If this is not the case then maybe this avenue should be explored to get investors a better rate. If your valuation is correct and I don't doubt that is, the income from these should alone pay the interest? Leaving the bond owner to make his profit from the funds. Forgive me if I'm suggesting things already in place
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 15:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Lord Wickham Grendell are you still allowing the owner of the bpo's production rights over them? If so then surely a better rate can be reached? If this is not the case then maybe this avenue should be explored to get investors a better rate. If your valuation is correct and I don't doubt that is, the income from these should alone pay the interest? Leaving the bond owner to make his profit from the funds. Forgive me if I'm suggesting things already in place That's right the client will still be producing from the BPO's while they are being held by me. The rate was based on projected profits and timeline to periodically do buybacks to reduce the total bond size. Setting a higher rate would not only cost the client more monthly, but also long term by reduction in profits that would be used for the periodic buy backs. We also don't want the bond to run forever. Grendell ♥
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.05.01 16:36:00 - [25] Edited by: Vilgan Mazran on 01/05/2011 16:38:46 This raises a few questions imo: Why does the person w/ the T2 BPOs need 350B? Also, why would they pay even 2%? They can already play eve for free and still make a hefty profit just manufacturing off their existing BPOs. The additional profit from T2 BPOs isn't such that its really worth purchasing more and paying 2% (plus risk of Grendell scamming someday, plus nerf risk, etc) imo. I'd assume that the client here is AC155 or Ray McCormack, in which case the whole operation makes a bit more sense. If that's the case, it'd likely be a bit more likely to garner interest imo if they just said so and the sequence went: you lock down BPOs, then we send isk directly to them. No mysterious "person who wishes to remain hidden" and 700B or whatever in your hands at the same time.
Lord Wickham	Posted - 2011.05.01 16:56:00 - [26] i agree with what vilgan said mostly. basicly we are funding an initial investment probly into a large cap fleet or sovereign takeover, because its clearly obvious that the bond owner won't be investing the isk into a profit making venture.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.01 16:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran This raises a few questions imo: Why does the person w/ the T2 BPOs need 350B? Also, why would they pay even 2%? They can already play eve for free and still make a hefty profit just manufacturing off their existing BPOs. The additional profit from T2 BPOs isn't such that its really worth purchasing more and paying 2% (plus risk of Grendell scamming someday, plus nerf risk, etc) imo. I'd assume that the client here is AC155 or Ray McCormack, in which case the whole operation makes a bit more sense. If that's the case, it'd likely be a bit more likely to garner interest imo if they just said so and the sequence went: you lock down BPOs, then we send isk directly to them. No mysterious "person who wishes to remain hidden" and 700B or whatever in your hands at the same time. Same reason why anybody here really takes out a loan or bonds etc. To make more money If a person can have the assets generate revenue for them and have the general value of the assets in isk to invest in other areas, then it just increases their revenue for a monthly fee. Grendell ♥
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.05.01 18:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Grendell Basically the way I see it is; When and if the usual trusted 3% investments comes around, there is a lot of down time where I'm sure many investors have their isk sitting idle not really doing anything for them. So given the intended duration, this would close those unpaid gaps and generally balance out overall. Sadly I have around 14 bil laying around, but the interest is still too low for me 3% comes close to a PLEX per month, this just really isn't worth it to me. I do hope (and probably know) your offering will get filled. It's just a shame I can't profit from it
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.05.01 19:05:00 - [29] Originally by: grendell Originally by: flakeys Well grendell , i'm out for various reasons but to keep it short 350B in T2 bpo's only 15% over collateral and the interest rate are my main concern. Good luck and cya soon. As stated to Block the BPOs have a 15% safety net deducted from their conservative evaluation, so the total safety net is actually larger then 15%. Thank you for the wishes, I'm sure I'll see you in future bonds. Mostly the return is what keeps me off , i think the current MD popular rate allready is way too low but i like to take a part of it in certain spots however going even lower like this offering is where i draw the line. But yes you can be sure that with new offerings you will see my face poke in to take a bite grendell :)
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 03:54:00 - [30] To breaker and flakeys, I'm sure I'll see you guys around for the future ones. First investment in for 20b with an investor that wants to remain anonymous. Anonymous or not everyone is welcome. Grendell ♥
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 05:32:00 - [31] Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous investor? Really? If he's asking for 350 billion then he should be prepared to waive his anonymity - unless he's a) Bad Bobby b) An imaginary friend Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security.
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.	Posted - 2011.05.02 06:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 05:50:10 Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous client? Really? If he's asking for 350 billion then he should be prepared to waive his anonymity - unless he's a) Bad Bobby b) An imaginary friend Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security. Edit: typo Fair points, but doesn't 350bil seem a little low for a reputation cash out? If he's getting just 1-2% of the ISK handled on 10 trillion in transactions...that's a few hundred billion already, over maybe a year or two?
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 06:31:00 - [33] Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 06:33:38 Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Fair points, but doesn't 350bil seem a little low for a reputation cash out? If he's getting just 1-2% of the ISK handled on 10 trillion in transactions...that's a few hundred billion already, over maybe a year or two? Good question, but that's inherently a hypothetical question that we have no means of discovering the answer to. What we can know is that the structure of the offering is flawed because of the "anonymous client" - a mechanism which is easily open to misuse.
khai88	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:18:00 - [34] for me i see this as not a scam, as say at post above if he want to cash out the rep, he just need to offer 3-4% interest and the bond will be fill by now, the reason it havn't be fill and so hard doing it is the very low interest. and i don't believe he will make a stupid mistake like this to scam
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:27:00 - [35] Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 02/05/2011 07:29:06 Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 05:50:10 Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous client? Really? If he's asking for 350 billion then he should be prepared to waive his anonymity - unless he's a) Bad Bobby b) An imaginary friend Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security. Edit: typo ..Liberty, no offense, but this post, and a few others (especially the ones directed twords Shar) indicate your lack of MD historical knowledge. I'm sure you will point out your character creation date, and your account creation date, and MD participation (even just as a non poster) date. Your lack of knowledge in MD culture shows clearly in your posting. Grendell has a long track record of being a third party for anonymous clients. It's kind of his thing. The third party middleman for security (lolrite?) and anonymity is an accepted practice. Three people come to mind: Chribba, Darkness, and Grendell. If your questioning Grendell as a "Trusted 3rd party (lolrite?)" in this offering, then you might as well just write off the whole "Trusted 3rd party" custom altogether. And as for last months 100b offering "that folded early [almost instantly!]" if you look at the thread, it appears the offering closed because the "anonymous client" wanted it to. And 70b was returned to flakeys. Who is not participating in this offering. So is flakeys one of Grendells sleeper alts who has been implanted for years to help Grendell cash out now? I'm not saying this offering isn't a scam, because, well, it's Eve. Everyone's trying to scam you! Just saying that Grendell isn't John Q McSpacebux coming to the MD forums looking for low hanging isk. And that your MD knowledge sucks. No offense of course.
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Liberty Eternal What we can know is that the structure of the offering is flawed because of the "anonymous client" - a mechanism which is easily open to misuse. Assume Grendell will hold a huge amount of public isk and assets at some point during this loan. Accept that there is no security and all you have is Grendell's word. Accept that he is willing to act as a third party to people from all backgrounds including any and all from whatever list of villains you wish to name. Does the identity of any one person from the rogues gallery of Grendell's clients really make that much of a difference? While I can understand the concern that the anonymous client does not exist and it is all just a ruse, what does that really matter? Along that line of questioning all you really care about is the existance, value and security of 410b in collateral. Given you are going to have to take Grendell's word for that then we are really just back to where we started. It's a 350b unsecured offering with a person who will also hold a large but unknown and unknowable amount of public isk and assets in parallel. I agree that it isn't an ideal offering, but I really do not think that the anonymous nature of the client is anywhere near the top of the list of things to worry about.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Syds Sinclair Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 02/05/2011 07:29:06 Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 05:50:10 Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous client? Really? If he's asking for 350 billion then he should be prepared to waive his anonymity - unless he's a) Bad Bobby b) An imaginary friend Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security. Edit: typo ..Liberty, no offense, but this post, and a few others (especially the ones directed twords Shar) indicate your lack of MD historical knowledge. I'm sure you will point out your character creation date, and your account creation date, and MD participation (even just as a non poster) date. Your lack of knowledge in MD culture shows clearly in your posting. Grendell has a long track record of being a third party for anonymous clients. It's kind of his thing. The third party middleman for security (lolrite?) and anonymity is an accepted practice. Three people come to mind: Chribba, Darkness, and Grendell. If your questioning Grendell as a "Trusted 3rd party (lolrite?)" in this offering, then you might as well just write off the whole "Trusted 3rd party" custom altogether. And as for last months 100b offering "that folded early [almost instantly!]" if you look at the thread, it appears the offering closed because the "anonymous client" wanted it to. And 70b was returned to flakeys. Who is not participating in this offering. So is flakeys one of Grendells sleeper alts who has been implanted for years to help Grendell cash out now? I'm not saying this offering isn't a scam, because, well, it's Eve. Everyone's trying to scam you! Just saying that Grendell isn't John Q McSpacebux coming to the MD forums looking for low hanging isk. And that your MD knowledge sucks. No offense of course. Oh yes, there should be MD elite who are above reproach and questioning We've all seen how well that works. How dare he question valued MD icons like Cosmoray!.. oh wait..
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Liberty Eternal What we can know is that the structure of the offering is flawed because of the "anonymous client" - a mechanism which is easily open to misuse. Assume Grendell will hold a huge amount of public isk and assets at some point during this loan. Accept that there is no security and all you have is Grendell's word. Accept that he is willing to act as a third party to people from all backgrounds including any and all from whatever list of villains you wish to name. Does the identity of any one person from the rogues gallery of Grendell's clients really make that much of a difference? While I can understand the concern that the anonymous client does not exist and it is all just a ruse, what does that really matter? Along that line of questioning all you really care about is the existance, value and security of 410b in collateral. Given you are going to have to take Grendell's word for that then we are really just back to where we started. It's a 350b unsecured offering with a person who will also hold a large but unknown and unknowable amount of public isk and assets in parallel. I agree that it isn't an ideal offering, but I really do not think that the anonymous nature of the client is anywhere near the top of the list of things to worry about. ..[See post above].
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles ..MD presence grind.. Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I'm not saying this offering isn't a scam, because, well, it's Eve. Everyone's trying to scam you!.. ..Just saying that Grendell isn't John Q McSpacebux coming to the MD forums looking for low hanging isk...
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Syds Sinclair Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles ..MD presence grind.. Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I'm not saying this offering isn't a scam, because, well, it's Eve. Everyone's trying to scam you!.. ..Just saying that Grendell isn't John Q McSpacebux coming to the MD forums looking for low hanging isk... What does it matter who he is then? You either think some people are above reproach, or that nobody is. MD "culture" has a long running tradition of allowing for enormous scams because once someone gets enough "rep" they become unquestionable. And then some people think that every offering should be seen on its own merits. Merits which this one is missing other than the attachment of Grendell's name. And, as pointed, some MD personalities are actually scammers (cosmo, Bad Bobby, ricdic, etc) ::shock:: But hey, whiteknight away! You should invest if the offering is that good, by the by. Nothing like putting your money where your mouth is.
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles But hey, whiteknight away! Your response is entirely disproportional to his actual post. I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches.
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:51:00 - [42] Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..[See post above]. I think you may have missunderstood on what side my opinion of Grendell falls. I have, do and will continue to use Grendell and Chribba as 3rd parties for various deals. I do not use Darknesss because he shares corp/alliance history with me and thereby disqualifies himself as being acceptable to some 2nd parties. I'm sure you can see that for me the need for a trusted 3rd party can be extremely frequent. They are essential. A necessary evil maybe. Without them I could not run a large and profitable part of my business.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.02 07:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles But hey, whiteknight away! Your response is entirely disproportional to his actual post. Petition it to the UN.
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 08:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..[See post above]. I think you may have missunderstood on what side my opinion of Grendell falls... ...I have, do and will continue to use Grendell and Chribba as 3rd parties for various deals... ...need for a trusted 3rd party can be extremely frequent. They are essential. A necessary evil maybe. Without them I could not run a large and profitable part of my business. ..Exactly what my post was trying to illustrate. Of the 3rd parties that are available, necessary evils they may be, Grendell is one of them, one who has a forum documented (for better or for worse) 10t in 3rd party transfers. Of course, buyer beware.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 08:30:00 - [45] Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 08:30:48 Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Liberty, no offense, but this post, and a few others (especially the ones directed twords Shar) indicate your lack of MD historical knowledge. Even if true, this is not a logical way to refute a premise - you have to refute the actual premise I made [that the offering is structured in a way that is unsafe]. I'm sure you didn't mean to make a deliberate ad hominem but even if it was accidental, that's what you've done Originally by: Syds Sinclair I'm sure you will point out your character creation date, and your account creation date, and MD participation (even just as a non poster) date. Your lack of knowledge in MD culture shows clearly in your posting. Again, an unrelated side-issue, and not a conversation I will be having with you anyway. If you have knowledge, demonstrate it. Originally by: Syds Sinclair Grendell has a long track record of being a third party for anonymous clients. It's kind of his thing. The third party middleman for security (lolrite?) and anonymity is an accepted practice. Three people come to mind: Chribba, Darkness, and Grendell. If your questioning Grendell as a "Trusted 3rd party (lolrite?)" in this offering, then you might as well just write off the whole "Trusted 3rd party" custom altogether. I know he has a long track record but this is not a guarantee of security, although it should certainly be taken into account. However I'm questioning the structure of the offering - I did the same thing in Cosmoray's Hegel Angel case and received similar responses, but I pushed on because the structure of the offering was objectively flawed, and remained so no matter who was offering it. Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..And as for last months 100b offering "that folded early [almost instantly!]" if you look at the thread, it appears the offering closed because the "anonymous client" wanted it to. And 70b was returned to flakeys. But this doesn't refute my point - that the offer folded early, and that it has been quickly followed by an offering 3.5 times the size. Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..So is flakeys one of Grendells sleeper alts who has been implanted for years to help Grendell cash out now? Rhetorical tangent Originally by: Syds Sinclair And that your MD knowledge sucks. No offense of course. No offence taken - in fact, I'm looking forward to you demonstrating your superior knowledge by solving some of the difficult questions that have arisen in this thread [which should be easy for you].
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 09:18:00 - [46] Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 02/05/2011 09:21:42 Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 02/05/2011 09:19:27 Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Liberty, no offense, but this post, and a few others (especially the ones directed twords Shar) indicate your lack of MD historical knowledge. Even if true, this is not a logical way to refute a premise - you have to refute the actual premise I made [that the offering is structured in a way that is unsafe]. I'm sure you didn't mean to make a deliberate ad hominem but even if it was accidental, that's what you've done ..I stated this to set a precedent. You are posting from a perspective of clean slate. It is not such a bad perspective, but a such a viewpoint ignores the totality of circumstance. From my perspective: Yes the bond is an unsecured bond, in the aspect that each investor is not holding onto collateral. Trusted third parties are an accepted practice. Grendell is one of the three topmost third parties. For Standards and Practices, the bond is a secured bond. Is your hang up with third parties? Don't trust any third party? Wont invest if a third party is involved? If so then all collateral of a secured loan should go directly to the loaner(s). Can't argue with you there. Is your hang up not with third parties but with Grendell? Then who would you consider a trusted third party? Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Syds Sinclair I'm sure you will point out your character creation date, and your account creation date, and MD participation (even just as a non poster) date. Your lack of knowledge in MD culture shows clearly in your posting. Again, an unrelated side-issue, and not a conversation I will be having with you anyway. If you have knowledge, demonstrate it. A preemptive counter to a likely defense of my precedent. Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Syds Sinclair Grendell has a long track record of being a third party for anonymous clients. It's kind of his thing. The third party middleman for security (lolrite?) and anonymity is an accepted practice. Three people come to mind: Chribba, Darkness, and Grendell. If your questioning Grendell as a "Trusted 3rd party (lolrite?)" in this offering, then you might as well just write off the whole "Trusted 3rd party" custom altogether. I know he has a long track record but this is not a guarantee of security, although it should certainly be taken into account. However I'm questioning the structure of the offering - I did the same thing in Cosmoray's Hegel Angel case and received similar responses, but I pushed on because the structure of the offering was objectively flawed, and remained so no matter who was offering it. Also, it's hardly an attack on an entire tradition if I just ask some necessary questions about a weak structure of offering What is a guarantee of security? Serious question as your answer might help advance further discussion. How much should it be taken into account? On a scale of 1-10? Isn't that rather subjective? What is weak about the structure? That Grendell secures offers from anonymous borrowers? Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..And as for last months 100b offering "that folded early [almost instantly!]" if you look at the thread, it appears the offering closed because the "anonymous client" wanted it to. And 70b was returned to flakeys. But this doesn't refute my point - that the offer folded early, and that it has been quickly followed by an offering 3.5 times the size. My point was that the offer "folded" because the borrower ended the bond. So to you "folded" means.. Bond offered. Bond filled in a day. Borrower closes the bond and pays earned interest. Sign me up for 10 "folded" bonds plx. Ran out of characters, and beer, so I'll stop now.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.02 15:31:00 - [47] Edited by: Rafia Landras Audeles on 02/05/2011 15:31:12 You know, an idle thought came to my mind, and this being the place it is, I may as well share it. What happens if one day, Grendell decides to take a break from Eve for a given period of time? (the reason is not important for this exercise). One day, of his own foreseeing, Grendell decides to take a break. What will he do then? As this thread an numerous others show, the value of rep is decreasing rapidly. People like him, or Darkness (who tried unsuccessfully to launch a bond not long ago) are trusted on name recognition by people like Syds who point out the "culture of the place". But once his ambulance chasing act (which happens less and less often than it used to) stops, so does his relevance. Newer people don't respect said "culture" and have learned to distrust institutions based on "he is an unquestionable elite". The only way to cash out his reputation then, is to do so at a point previous to his departure. and a low interest offering would allow to pay difidents on a ponzi structure leaving him a way to come back if he changes his mind without burning his bridges. Just some idle thoughts. But the relevant fact here is that beyond his word, we can't know that the blueprints exist. And the value of someone's word in Eve seems to be.. surprisingly close to negative these days. Without a second party with its own corp history, subscription length and recognition how can one evaluate the existence of the collateral then? And even if he wasn't out to cash out his rep, what stops him from giving himself a loan of 350 b isk at a low interest without any collateral ever existing? I think the time of trusting people with over a third of a trillion isk mrely because they want it is long past. "Elite" or not.
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.02 16:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles But the relevant fact here is that beyond his word, we can't know that the blueprints exist. And the value of someone's word in Eve seems to be.. surprisingly close to negative these days. Without a second party with its own corp history, subscription length and recognition how can one evaluate the existence of the collateral then? And even if he wasn't out to cash out his rep, what stops him from giving himself a loan of 350 b isk at a low interest without any collateral ever existing? You are overcomplicating your thinking with talk about the collateral. Whether the collateral exists is unknown and unknowable therefore any question involving the collateral is pointless. Distill it down to what you know about the offering. Originally by: Bad Bobby It's a 350b unsecured offering with a person who will also hold a large but unknown and unknowable amount of public isk and assets in parallel. Do you trust Grendell under those terms or do you not? Are you willing to accept the offered ROI or are you not? The answer for some will be yes and the answer for some will be no. Making it any more complicated than that does not really get you anywhere because you are simply asking questions that cannot be answered under the terms of the offering. Any minor detail you might gain by squeezing a more complete discription from Grendell will only allow you to make minor adjustments to the risk profile. This will not allow you to escape the fact that MD ROIs do not allow you to accept anything more than the most minimal of risks because a loss in one investment can wipe out the return on your entire portfolio. Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles the time of trusting people with over a third of a trillion isk mrely because they want it is long past. You may wish that it was so but reality will not bend to those wishes.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:10:00 - [49] Wow lots of posts while I was asleep! Before I get to the questions and concerns I'd like to ask everyone to stay on topic and be polite and respectful to each other. Pretty please. Originally by: Liberty Eternal Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous client? Really? As a 3rd party, I deal with a lot of different scenarios. Each scenario tends to vary depending on the clients requests. In this scenario the client wishes to remain anonymous. Ideally the client would be known publicly, like in the transaction I secured for Varo Jan in his purchase of The One Stop Mining Shop for 150b. The client has his reasons for wanting to stay anonymous, I understand them and I will garner to his request. It's as simple as that. Originally by: Liberty Eternal Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] It didn't fold, it was closed out properly and there was no set duration. The client anticipated it would take longer to pay off then it did. Here's the link since you must have missed it. Thread. Originally by: Liberty Eternal and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. Don't forget that it was actually 225b first -> then 100b -> now 350b. (The links in my main post) Originally by: Liberty Eternal And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security. The investor security here is is my word on the value and possession of collateral. My "structure" has always been being a middle man in a transaction, I have no intention of running a business like Cosmo. Same as the last 2 offerings posted here, same as any of the 3rd party transaction I handle for the major alliances in eve and individual super cap pilots. My word is the offered security. If you are not comfortable with that as a security, there's no point in beating a dead horse. You may not be comfortable with this offering, luckily this forum has many others I'm sure you can find very comfortable. Maybe in the future I'll have one you can feel comfortable with. Until then, maybe next time. Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Fair points, but doesn't 350bil seem a little low for a reputation cash out? If he's getting just 1-2% of the ISK handled on 10 trillion in transactions...that's a few hundred billion already, over maybe a year or two? Not that this would instill confidence in you or others but, I have a tendency of undercharging clients. Sometimes I'll even do things for free if I'm just in the right mood. Also if it's only a few seconds of work. I do make a fair amount of isk from my 3rd party service but, it's the least of my incomes. Don't forget I've been playing eve for quite some time. So I've had the opportunity to to come across a lot of great deals and golden times. One of them buying out all the investors in the OSM deal, now making me the only investor in the company. It cost me 250b, but imo was worth every penny. Originally by: Liberty Eternal Good question, but that's inherently a hypothetical question that we have no means of discovering the answer to. What we can know is that the structure of the offering is flawed because of the "anonymous client" - a mechanism which is easily open to misuse. Any structure has a flaw. But every structure has it's strengths and weaknesses. I very much agree that it is open to misuse, can't argue that. The only thing I can say there is to my above replies to you. Grendell ♥
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:12:00 - [50] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Edited by: Rafia Landras Audeles on 02/05/2011 15:31:12 ..are trusted on name recognition by people like Syds who point out the "culture of the place".. ..Take note that I never have, or probably ever will invest in an offering, secured by Grendell or not. To me the pittance interest is not worth any amount of risk. Furthermore, the time taken to research an offering, decide if it's worth it, and continually checking up the status could be spent in game making a much larger amount of isk with less risk. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you don't like the "trusted 3rd party" system, a whole lot of other investors do. You either fall in line or abstain. I have chosen to abstain. In closing, the only name recognition I have is that the denizens of MD recognize Chibbra, Darkness, Grendell, Breaker77, VV, RAW23, and a few others as securing methods. I can't beat em, and I won't be joining em.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:15:00 - [51] Reserved. Grendell ♥
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:18:00 - [52] This actually raises a good question here. Assuming the anonymous client is Bad Bobby, where does Grendell fall in line. From a reputation standpoint, which is better. To honor the contract or honor morality? Might appear mutual but not exclusive. If the contract is honored, it enabled any 3rd party to work with people who have scammed the public. Clearly 3rd party is not going to put themselves in the position in which they would lose wealth or integrity, so holding collateral would be vital. At which point, they could work with any scammer, make a public anonymous offer, and if the scammer scams again, the 3rd party has collateral in order to pay back the contracted amount. That's solid integrity which promotes people to trust the 3rd party, sure they lost value and where scammed, but the blow is softened because the 3rd party honors the contract. If morality comes into play, 3rd party would out right refuse to work with the scammer. I think the best move would be to be a 3rd party but don't do anonymous offers. If you think about it, what if Grendell offers to do a public bond for 200B for BB. And Grendell has Titan BPOs in his possession, BB can still use them, but it's locked down to a Grendell alt. Would you invest, assuming the interest etc is to your liking? Amarr for Life
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:24:00 - [53] Originally by: SencneS what if Grendell offers to do a public bond for 200B for BB. And Grendell has Titan BPOs in his possession, BB can still use them, but it's locked down to a Grendell alt. Would you invest, assuming the interest etc is to your liking? Not even with a 150 % interest rate a month .
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:29:00 - [54] Originally by: SencneS If morality comes into play, 3rd party would out right refuse to work with the scammer. ..Gotta love the moral angle! What's the next critique of business? Feelings? Emotional attachment to an offering?
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:37:00 - [55] Originally by: SencneS This actually raises a good question here. Assuming the anonymous client is Bad Bobby, where does Grendell fall in line. From a reputation standpoint, which is better. To honor the contract or honor morality? Might appear mutual but not exclusive. If the contract is honored, it enabled any 3rd party to work with people who have scammed the public. Clearly 3rd party is not going to put themselves in the position in which they would lose wealth or integrity, so holding collateral would be vital. At which point, they could work with any scammer, make a public anonymous offer, and if the scammer scams again, the 3rd party has collateral in order to pay back the contracted amount. That's solid integrity which promotes people to trust the 3rd party, sure they lost value and where scammed, but the blow is softened because the 3rd party honors the contract. If morality comes into play, 3rd party would out right refuse to work with the scammer. I think the best move would be to be a 3rd party but don't do anonymous offers. If you think about it, what if Grendell offers to do a public bond for 200B for BB. And Grendell has Titan BPOs in his possession, BB can still use them, but it's locked down to a Grendell alt. Would you invest, assuming the interest etc is to your liking? Personally as a 3rd party, I try and keep myself away from questionable scenarios where there might be a big grey area. As a 3rd party I have the luxury of being able to pick and chose my clients and contracts, which makes that much easier. I have in the past opted out of questionable scenarios, just like Chirbba has, and I'm sure many other 3rd parties have. But that does not mean that I will refuse to work with somebody who has scammed in the past. If BB came up to me and asked me to secure something like a supercap transfer or any other transaction. I would likely have no problem with that, so long as there isn't a grey area that I don't want to meddle in. Morals have no place in a business transaction in progress. But you can opt out of the transaction if you feel it is questionable. I've done it and as stated before I'm certain many other 3rd parties have as well. Grendell ♥
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:39:00 - [56] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/05/2011 17:42:51 Quote: In closing, the only name recognition I have is that the denizens of MD recognize Chibbra, Darkness, Grendell, Breaker77, VV, RAW23, and a few others as securing methods. I can't beat em, and I won't be joining em Why should you "beat us"? It's really like RL trading: I comfortably accept the fact that many EvE people are scammers and they need to become well known in order to attract others. I also comfortably accept that others will never scam, most of them will never post on MD, others do. All what you need to do is a Risk:Reward operation and see if your risk profile is compatible with the de facto situation. IE in case of Grendell I'd have no issue sending some money if only the "reward" part of the deal was not so completely out of the market. I got 7.5% on multiple 110% collateralized bonds where I am so damn sure because I am the collateral holder none the less. So, when I compare such total safety, such pleasing interest rate with this investment, my stomach hurts. It's not even just a matter of lack of collateral, it's just way too unrewarding. Quote: This actually raises a good question here. Assuming the anonymous client is Bad Bobby, where does Grendell fall in line. From a reputation standpoint, which is better. To honor the contract or honor morality? Might appear mutual but not exclusive. This is easy: don't accept the contract at all so you won't have temptations. Edit: involountarily been there, learned the hard way with that GS fake director affair. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 17:49:00 - [57] ..By beat em I mean I cannot change the system. By join em I mean there is no offering I am willing to risk my ISK on unless I am in possession of all collateral. This viewpoint is primarily from the position that I have more lucrative and less risky ways of making a satisfactory income. Should I become an investor player and have to enter the game, then I would have to alter my viewpoint and accept a higher risk profile. As it is now my risk profile is 0.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.02 20:43:00 - [58] Grendell - That's good to know, and your answer is worthy of the reputation you uphold. To answer my own question, if you where offering up a 200b ISK bond for BB and held more then 200B collateral and the interest was acceptable, I would likely invest. Partly because I wasn't scammed by BB (I sold my shares long before the scam happened) and the fact that particular bond is covered up to or above the requested amount. I don't think many could make a solid argument for the bond being risky. About the best argument would be delays selling the collateral. Morals don't have a much room in business, but it's nice to think that a trusted businessman has some thought to not hide publicly admitted and proudly self proclaimed scammers. I do like the idea that there is some sort of moral integrity is part of every business. Just as the 3rd party has the ability to turn down the business, the 3rd party has the ability to make some of, lack of a better word, "Standards". If I were in your shoes I wouldn't deal with the public on behalf of an anonymous party. I know thats not conducive to business, but open and honest with no hidden or gray areas is better in my opinion. Don't take this personal, you do a better job then most, and you have a consistent presence in MD and other forums. I just don't like the idea that if I choose to invest I could be assisting someone who has scammed me. So I personally avoid anonymous offers. Amarr for Life
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 20:56:00 - [59] Originally by: Grendell The investor security here is is my word on the value and possession of collateral. My word is the offered security. Some tangible and objective security can be offered in addition to that by structuring the offering in a safer way. Originally by: Grendell If you are not comfortable with that as a security, there's no point in beating a dead horse. You may not be comfortable with this offering, luckily this forum has many others I'm sure you can find very comfortable. It's really not about how "comfortable" I am On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security?
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Liberty Eternal On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security? ..Lol wow! But then what trusted third part would the second trusted third party disclose the information to, just to confirm that the client does exist? Then what trusted third party would the third trusted third party disclose the information to, just to confirm that the client does exist? And that the previous two trusted third parties are still trustworthy. Man, so this is how rituals and archaic bureaucreacies are made.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:11:00 - [61] Originally by: SencneS Grendell - That's good to know, and your answer is worthy of the reputation you uphold. To answer my own question, if you where offering up a 200b ISK bond for BB and held more then 200B collateral and the interest was acceptable, I would likely invest. Partly because I wasn't scammed by BB (I sold my shares long before the scam happened) and the fact that particular bond is covered up to or above the requested amount. I don't think many could make a solid argument for the bond being risky. About the best argument would be delays selling the collateral. Morals don't have a much room in business, but it's nice to think that a trusted businessman has some thought to not hide publicly admitted and proudly self proclaimed scammers. I do like the idea that there is some sort of moral integrity is part of every business. Just as the 3rd party has the ability to turn down the business, the 3rd party has the ability to make some of, lack of a better word, "Standards". If I were in your shoes I wouldn't deal with the public on behalf of an anonymous party. I know thats not conducive to business, but open and honest with no hidden or gray areas is better in my opinion. Don't take this personal, you do a better job then most, and you have a consistent presence in MD and other forums. I just don't like the idea that if I choose to invest I could be assisting someone who has scammed me. So I personally avoid anonymous offers. Thank you for your compliments. Originally by: Liberty Eternal On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security? If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. Grendell ♥
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.02 22:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response. My pleasure! Thanks for the feedback Grendell ♥
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2011.05.03 02:53:00 - [64] I suppose you don't know what alts are for. HINT: If you want to remain anonymous use an alt. BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.03 05:33:00 - [65] Small update, Ive contacted my client to ask his permission about confirming he is not my imaginary friend. He's agreed to allow me get confirmation through a 3rd party, I'm assuming nobody would have any objections with Chribba? If not Chribba I can also ask Tornsoul, either I think would suffice. Grendell ♥
Xemoxa	Posted - 2011.05.03 05:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Grendell If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. That will resolve any issue I have with the structure of the offering. I thank you for your response. This is a truely pathetic request and waste a of time. Dude spends all this energy being a thorn in Grendell's side about security, then he'll be satisfied by a request that, without a shred of doubt, proves nothing. Let us all rest in peace knowing that Liberty Eternal is satisfied in knowing that Grendell doesn't know how to make an alt if needed. You know how trusted 3rd parties work? You have to trust someone. All your stupid questions and suggestions for added complexity won't change that basic fact. You don't like how the trusted 3rd party system works? Then gtfo and go bother some unsecured bond noobs with your timesome posturing.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.03 06:06:00 - [67] Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 03/05/2011 06:07:51 Thanks Grendell, good to hear. Also, Grendell can't just make an alt - he has already stated that both the blueprints and their owner are publically known and can be found through a quick evesearch. The third party will be able to verify this for consistency, meaning that an alt won't do it. Originally by: Grendell Basically I can't divulge the exact BPO's, as it would give clues as to who the client is. Thanks eve-search.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.03 06:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 03/05/2011 06:07:51 Also, Grendell can't just make an alt - he has already stated that both the blueprints and their owner are publically known and can be found through a quick evesearch. The third party will be able to verify this for consistency, meaning that an alt won't do it. You know, I happen to see a publicly known person who had a business which operated with very recognizable BPOS posting here a lot more lately. Correlation with this bond? Causation? And, if a third party confirmed the existence of someone other than Grendell then Grendell could not use an alt (or an obvious one) since for the verification to be meaningful at all the party with the bpo's needs to be credible. And I think Chribba is smarter than to fall for "NotaGrendell Alt" Whats up bobby did your scam funds run out already?
Bad Bobby Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.05.03 08:10:00 - [69] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles You know, I happen to see a publicly known person who had a business which operated with very recognizable BPOS posting here a lot more lately. Whats up bobby did your scam funds run out already? Yes. You've got me. I frittered it all away on quafe and exotic dancers. Fortunately Grendell is there to save the day.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.04 04:05:00 - [70] Small update were about 25% filled now. Still waiting on word from Chribba, if it takes too long I can speak to Tornsoul. Will keep everyone posted on this. Grendell ♥
Salome Musashi Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.05.04 08:50:00 - [71] If there were ever a good, conservative Eve bond to invest in, this is it. But folks are right, the rates are too low. For small-time investors, the return is lower than datacore research agents, and the big boys are probably looking for something riskier with a higher payoff. For example, a 20b ISK investment would buy me a PLEX every month, which would rock, but I don't have 20b to invest. Good luck, Grendell, I'll keep thinking about it, maybe I'll change my mind. This would be an excellent investment for a corp with some extra billions, though.
Cesar Menage MenageTech	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:30:00 - [72] wow thats a big amount We sell anything that we can make a buck on
RAW23	Posted - 2011.05.04 10:16:00 - [73] Edited by: RAW23 on 04/05/2011 10:17:32 Edited by: RAW23 on 04/05/2011 10:16:05 Originally by: Grendell Current Investors: Anonymous I - 20b jyppy - 20b Anonymous II - 50b ... Investing: > Reserve an amount 1b+ with increments of 1b. > Post your reservation here > Eve-mail your reservation for anonymity > The monthly intervals will be the 1st of each month From a purely procedural perspective anonymous out-of-thread investments leave some security gaps that could be plugged without too much effort and without surrendering their anonymity. The concern is that when a chunk of the investment is not booked in the thread it is easy for the offeror to claim that person pulled out and then resell their stake in the investment multiple times via private convos (i.e. the Curzon Dax approach). This potential problem can be removed by having the anonymous investors post their reservations with anonymous alts and also post if they back out. Of course, the alts could be the OP's but as long as things are tracked in the thread and any reselling of their stakes is done here, that doesn't matter as it still won't be possible to resell the same stake twice, so long as all investors insist on all business being done via the thread and don't send any isk until the relevant posts are made.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.04 14:50:00 - [74] Edited by: Grendell on 04/05/2011 14:49:56 Originally by: Salome Musashi If there were ever a good, conservative Eve bond to invest in, this is it. But folks are right, the rates are too low. For small-time investors, the return is lower than datacore research agents, and the big boys are probably looking for something riskier with a higher payoff. For example, a 20b ISK investment would buy me a PLEX every month, which would rock, but I don't have 20b to invest. Good luck, Grendell, I'll keep thinking about it, maybe I'll change my mind. This would be an excellent investment for a corp with some extra billions, though. Thanks for the compliments! Originally by: RAW23 From a purely procedural perspective anonymous out-of-thread investments leave some security gaps that could be plugged without too much effort and without surrendering their anonymity. The concern is that when a chunk of the investment is not booked in the thread it is easy for the offeror to claim that person pulled out and then resell their stake in the investment multiple times via private convos (i.e. the Curzon Dax approach). This potential problem can be removed by having the anonymous investors post their reservations with anonymous alts and also post if they back out. Of course, the alts could be the OP's but as long as things are tracked in the thread and any reselling of their stakes is done here, that doesn't matter as it still won't be possible to resell the same stake twice, so long as all investors insist on all business being done via the thread and don't send any isk until the relevant posts are made. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll mail them and ask them to make an alt for posting purposes. Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:52:00 - [75] Investor "Anonymous I" Has raised his reservation from 20b to 50b. I've updated the main post to reflect that. Grendell ♥
Miasma May	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Grendell Investor "Anonymous I" Has raised his reservation from 20b to 50b. I've updated the main post to reflect that. Anonymous I's anonymous alt checking in for stake tracking/reselling verification. I don't check evemail on this alt anyway, so any correspondance to me regarding this bond not from Grendell should be done publicly through this thread only. MM
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:37:00 - [77] Originally by: RAW23 Hey RAW as per your suggestion I've asked both anonymous investors to create random alts. Anonymous I has done so and posted, Anonymous II informed my he/she has no room on their account to create a an alt. But any future Anonymous investors, I will ask them to create an alt for the purpose of the thread. (If they have room to do so) Grendell ♥
TornSoul BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.05.06 17:05:00 - [78] Edited by: TornSoul on 06/05/2011 17:11:09 Originally by: Grendell Originally by: Liberty Eternal On which note - it would take 2 minutes to disclose the identity of the client to a trusted third party, just to confirm that the client does actually exist. Would you be prepared to do that for your investor's security? If that's what is required, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would have to first speak to my client to confirm it is something he would accept. I'm assuming Chribba would be the best option here? Either way, I'll ask my client first, before I speak on his behalf. I'll keep you posted on that Liberty. Hereby confirming that the party represented by Grendell is not Grendell himself. This has been verified via EVE mail. ------ caveat : This in no way confirms the existence of collateral, nor do I know the business plan or any other details. It simply confirms that there exists a party, well known to me (for years as it so happens), that I'm 100% certain is not Grendell himself, that claims to be the party on which behalf Grendell is issuing this bond. The validity of this claim (due to the identity of the party) I personally trust. BIG Lottery
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.06 18:59:00 - [79] That means it's Torn Soul Only a handful of people could utilize this amount of capital effectively and not be tempted by running off with it. This means the anonymous party is wealthy in their own right, but just doesn't capital available to initiate their project. Also two big anonymous investors for over 50B each. Means those two anonymous investors know who the anonymous party is. And that those people with big pockets trust the party. I somehow doubt it's someone new, the fact that Grendell is involved shows the anonymous party is someone who has been around long enough to know the right channels. Since Torn Soul has commented on it it's confirmation that the person is well know, has been around for a long time, and if the party was a scammer I'm sure TS would have give that information. Maybe not the name, but would have warned people about the parties history. That's a pretty narrow list of people left. So what are you making TS? Amarr for Life
TornSoul BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:11:00 - [80] Originally by: SencneS That means it's Torn Soul Originally by: TornSoul nor do I know the business plan or any other details. BIG Lottery
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:27:00 - [81] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: SencneS That means it's Torn Soul Originally by: TornSoul nor do I know the business plan or any other details. Well that solves that then. Amarr for Life
No You're Not	Posted - 2011.05.06 19:43:00 - [82] Got to know when to hold'em know when to fold'em know when to walk away Know when to run. You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table there'll be time enough for countin' when the ~~dealin's~~ stealin's done
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.06 21:17:00 - [83] ..I would like a trusted third party to confirm that TornSoul is not one of Grendell's alts. EMIRITE LIBRTY?
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.06 21:50:00 - [84] Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I would like a trusted third party to confirm that TornSoul is not one of Grendell's alts. EMIRITE LIBRTY? Yer sumfing verry suspishus going on hear! On a more serious note, thanks Grendell - making offerings more secure can only be a good thing
No You're Not	Posted - 2011.05.07 18:48:00 - [85] I think this is a scam. He's going to cash in and cash in big. I touched up this following bit of song for the occasion, and I would like you to note how it's a directly relevant, satirical take on the situation, complete with the easily understood implication (at least it's easy for anyone with wit[s], which, unfortunately, does not include the oaf who had my previous post deleted from this thread because such subtleties of the writing arts elude him) that it is directed at Grendell: Got to know when to hold'em know when to fold'em know when to walk away Know when to run. You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table there'll be time enough for countin' when the stealin's done --Adaptation of a work by Kenny Rogers Were he disposed to do so, he might respond with a verse or two taken from song or, perhaps, self-composed--an exhortant refutation of my unbearable accusation. Or he might not. Now that I have bracketed my verse with explanations and annotations, perhaps I can stay the hand of the invisible editor who could not be bothered to explore the possibility that conversations can occur in any number of forms, verse among them.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.10 16:22:00 - [86] Bump, read the thread. Grendell ♥
Triffid PieMuncher	Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Grendell Bump, read the thread. We've read it. Computer says 'no'
Mindlles	Posted - 2011.05.15 21:17:00 - [88] 3b for me.
spiked amarr Invicta.	Posted - 2011.05.16 23:48:00 - [89] Id like to reserve 5bn worth of shares.
JabJabVVV Burger Nips	Posted - 2011.05.18 09:53:00 - [90] I'd like to reserve 1bn please. ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.26 15:46:00 - [91] Will be finalizing some details and launching before total fill of the bond. Current reserved investors will be getting mailed with when to actually send isk. I'll update the thread too. Grendell ♥
one full vote	Posted - 2011.05.26 16:24:00 - [92] Hey, when you stick up for someone with rep you get a small amount of rep back! It's true! Also, this anonymity thing is stupid. Sorry but it is. Almost to a joke level fro anyone without **tinted googles from years of swimming around this MD toilet water. "Low interest rate! This can't be a scam!" Where the ff have I heard that before? BB You've heard all of this before You know , if MD was a piece of paper with wet which could be folded up.When unfolded, instead of smudges the seemingly loose contradictions would come toghether and it could be read in clear writting reality exists in your own mind because that is the only way this ** could be allowed to happen.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.26 17:10:00 - [93] Originally by: one full vote Also, this anonymity thing is stupid. Sorry but it is. Almost to a joke level fro anyone without **tinted googles from years of swimming around this MD toilet water. Anonymity is one of the most common requests I get as a 3rd party. You may feel it is stupid, but nobody is forcing you to invest. Let me give you an example here if I may. Let's say you had a venture you were looking to dive into but you lack the funds to do so. You can go to MD and ask for it and deal with the many 1 day old alt trolls that will pop out of the wood work. Or you can pay somebody like myself to do it on your behalf. Not only will you save yourself the headache of questions and answers, but you will also be able to avoid having their new venture targeted by wardecs etc. As requested I've had Tornsoul confirm the existence of my client. I'm sure one of the main reasons they'd like to remain anonymous, is to not have to deal with the numerous MD trolls. Which I oddly enough don't mind. Maybe I mis-understood your above statement but it appears as though this is your first post in MD and your first day on the forums. Link Surely you can't be an alt. Originally by:** one full vote "Low interest rate! This can't be a scam!" Where the ff have I heard that before? BB Not that I suspect you've actually read the thread, but I have never mentioned anything relating to the low interest rate as being an anti scam argument. As let's be honest, it simply doesn't make any sense. So one full note, please ask any question you like, and I'll be happy to answer. Grendell ♥
Narine Kitha	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:08:00 - [94] Hi Grendell, pretty new player, first time poster, enjoying the game so far. I'm interested in investing on behalf of a corporation made up of me and a few RL friends. What's the say on investing 1b within a day or two and increasing it to 10b later down the track?
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.26 21:34:00 - [95] Originally by: Narine Kitha Hi Grendell, pretty new player, first time poster, enjoying the game so far. I'm interested in investing on behalf of a corporation made up of me and a few RL friends. What's the say on investing 1b within a day or two and increasing it to 10b later down the track? Hello and welcome Narine! As it stands that won't be a problem as the bond will be launched before it fills completely. So I will be able to accommodate your request. Just remember it is better to raise or reduce at the end of the month. Since the interest will be paid monthly near the end or the 1st of the month. If you have any questions please feel free to ask here, eve-mail, or via convo. Grendell ♥
Merlinde Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.05.27 20:19:00 - [96] Edited by: Merlinde on 27/05/2011 20:19:50
Janet McJewstein	Posted - 2011.05.27 20:22:00 - [97] 15B Reservation
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.28 21:09:00 - [98] All current investors have received mail to start sending isk before the end of the month. Interest will start on the 1st of the month. Any new investors will need to reserve for the upcoming month. I will accept investors looking to start immediately an adjust their first months interest accordingly. Any questions can be asked here or in-game. Grendell ♥
Miasma May	Posted - 2011.05.28 21:47:00 - [99] Isk transferred as agreed. I look forward to a prosperous investment. MM
Manentia manic-recession	Posted - 2011.05.30 01:37:00 - [100] 25b Love, Manentia
jyppy Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:59:00 - [101] Isk sent
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:02:00 - [102] I've updated the investors list and the total. Still waiting on a few people to send in their isk. As always I'm available to answer any questions to current or potential investors! Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.01 16:16:00 - [103] I'll be transferring everyone's investments to the client today and interest will start accumulating today. So the first interest payment will be made on July 1st. Those who have yet to send in their investments will have a few days to do so without losing out on interest accumulation. I will be re-mailing those who haven't yet sent their investments in. Grendell ♥
ursu5	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:09:00 - [104] 14 bil reservation
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:14:00 - [105] Originally by: ursu5 14 bil reservation Thanks for your reservation, I've added you to the investors list. You may send isk at your earliest convenience. Grendell ♥
ursu5	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:30:00 - [106] increase investment by 14 to 20 Bil
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:42:00 - [107] Originally by: ursu5 increase investment by 14 to 20 Bil Updated to reflect the change! Just an update for everyone else, everything is going as planned and interest accumulation has started. Interest will still be paid out on the 1st of July. New investors will have the option to come in late, and start interest accumulation from the day they send in isk. New investors can also wait until the next cycle if they please. Grendell ♥
Kyla Kelvari	Posted - 2011.06.11 04:04:00 - [108] what's the risk that you get hit by a bus? 2-4 years is quite some time.
Sovie Panda	Posted - 2011.06.11 04:19:00 - [109] "Give me your money, I will pay it back to you pennies at a time over the course of eternity. Don't worry, this is all anonymous except for your bit."
Ruiryu Caldari Gray Rogue Squadron	Posted - 2011.06.11 04:29:00 - [110] Count me in for 20b you should have it some time tomorrow apon confirmation in this thread. The sword can only strike one enemy at a time, but tactics can defeat ten thousand men at once.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.06.11 05:35:00 - [111] Originally by: Sovie Panda "Give me your money, I will pay it back to you pennies at a time over the course of eternity. Don't worry, this is all anonymous except for your bit." Ahh thanks, until your post no one had discussed or considered any of your fine points. Has there been an influx of idiot on MD lately or have I simply not been paying enough attention?
Sovie Panda	Posted - 2011.06.11 06:07:00 - [112] Edited by: Sovie Panda on 11/06/2011 06:07:53 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Sovie Panda "Give me your money, I will pay it back to you pennies at a time over the course of eternity. Don't worry, this is all anonymous except for your bit." Ahh thanks, until your post no one had discussed or considered any of your fine points. Has there been an influx of idiot on MD lately or have I simply not been paying enough attention? lolol a md elite scammer sticking up for another md elite scammer dont you have a ban..insurance company to help your buddies tend to needle****?
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.06.11 08:59:00 - [113] Edited by: flakeys on 11/06/2011 09:00:04 Originally by: Sovie Panda lolol a md elite scammer sticking up for another md elite scammer dont you have a ban..insurance company to help your buddies tend to needle**? Hey panda since your a man of your word , Originally by:** Sovie Panda If one more person uses the word toon I swear to god I'll slit my wrists. TOON
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.11 12:14:00 - [114] Hello again everyone! Sorry for my lack of response over the last few days, after a fairly heavy storm my internet died, and it took my provider some time to get it back up. Now off to questions. Originally by: Kyla Kelvari what's the risk that you get hit by a bus? 2-4 years is quite some time. 2-4 Years is a long time, I do have an rl friend that used to play eve. I keep a word document with all my responsibilities updated roughly once per week. He knows about the document and it includes my login details and all necessary information. This was already something I had in place from an old project I was working on with Selene D'Celeste, which we ended up scrapping. I continued to update the document as I had started taking on more responsibility as a 3rd party and collateral holding. Not that this story will comfort you or anything but I've actually been hit by a bus while on my way to work like 5 years ago or so. I had my car door open(I was parked) The bus driver was making a turn and ended up taking my door with him. I wasn't actually hit really, just a close call and I had one less door for the day. Originally by: Sovie Panda "Give me your money, I will pay it back to you pennies at a time over the course of eternity. Don't worry, this is all anonymous except for your bit." Not that I suspect you've actually read the entirety of the thread, but I'll indulge you anyways. The rate IS lower then most, but because of the duration it's really evens out, cutting out any time your investment capital would be sitting idle waiting for another investment. The client is anonymous but the clients existence has also been confirmed by Tornsoul. You can also see from the investors list, that if you wish to invest anonymously you also have that option. So if you want anonymity, I have no problem providing that. Originally by: Ruiryu Count me in for 20b you should have it some time tomorrow apon confirmation in this thread. Hello Ruiryu, I've updated the investors list to include your investment! Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Sovie Panda "Give me your money, I will pay it back to you pennies at a time over the course of eternity. Don't worry, this is all anonymous except for your bit." Ahh thanks, until your post no one had discussed or considered any of your fine points. Has there been an influx of idiot on MD lately or have I simply not been paying enough attention? No real influx imo. The trolls just come out of hiding anytime there is a big enough project. Just lurking the forum looking for the right target to strike! Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 11/06/2011 09:00:04 Originally by: Sovie Panda lolol a md elite scammer sticking up for another md elite scammer dont you have a ban..insurance company to help your buddies tend to needle**? Hey panda since your a man of your word , Originally by:** Sovie Panda If one more person uses the word toon I swear to god I'll slit my wrists. Ha! nice one. Grendell ♥
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2011.06.12 00:18:00 - [115] I might be willing to meet the rest of your investment goal... however there are some terms of my own that I will be implimenting. I will offer you the 150b remaining in your goal but i want to hold the T2 BPO's of my choice with the "fair" vaule with a percentage 15-20% buffer. If you are interested please send me all the BPO details that you have as collerateral so that I may see if I am indeed interested in moving forward with this offer. . Sales - CDRD
Xenuria Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.12 17:57:00 - [116] Looks Legit.... "Sorry, Your Sov Options are Unavailable due to a PSN Outage."
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.13 15:33:00 - [117] Originally by: Loney I might be willing to meet the rest of your investment goal... however there are some terms of my own that I will be implimenting. I will offer you the 150b remaining in your goal but i want to hold the T2 BPO's of my choice with the "fair" vaule with a percentage 15-20% buffer. If you are interested please send me all the BPO details that you have as collerateral so that I may see if I am indeed interested in moving forward with this offer. It's unlikely as it would mean the bpo's would have to be spread in 2 separate corps under lock down vote. It would require the client to either use double the characters for production or move them around from corp to corp for every cycle, not to mention setting up new pos's for production. So just based on that I think it's unlikely. But with that said, I don't think it's a decision that's up to me. So I'll bring it up with the client and I'll let you know! Originally by: Xenuria Looks Legit.... Hello Xenuria, on your posting history(1 year total), you've only basically made troll posts and failed in raising a loan for yourself. So I'd like to ask you, given your posting history of speaking your mind, to ask any questions you like and if I can't answer them to adequately I'll give you 100m. Yes I'm at work and bored. Grendell ♥
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:21:00 - [118] Originally by: Grendell Hello Xenuria, on your posting history(1 year total), you've only basically made troll posts and failed in raising a loan for yourself. So I'd like to ask you, given your posting history of speaking your mind, to ask any questions you like and if I can't answer them to adequately I'll give you 100m. Yes I'm at work and bored. 1. Who invented the ironing board? 2. This statement is false. What is the truth-value of the preceding statement? (Only cos you're bored )
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.15 13:49:00 - [119] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Grendell Hello Xenuria, on your posting history(1 year total), you've only basically made troll posts and failed in raising a loan for yourself. So I'd like to ask you, given your posting history of speaking your mind, to ask any questions you like and if I can't answer them to adequately I'll give you 100m. Yes I'm at work and bored. 1. Who invented the ironing board? 2. This statement is false. What is the truth-value of the preceding statement? (Only cos you're bored ) It's too bad I can google both those answers in under 5 seconds. Thanks RAW. Grendell ♥
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.15 14:20:00 - [120] Originally by: Grendell Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Grendell Hello Xenuria, on your posting history(1 year total), you've only basically made troll posts and failed in raising a loan for yourself. So I'd like to ask you, given your posting history of speaking your mind, to ask any questions you like and if I can't answer them to adequately I'll give you 100m. Yes I'm at work and bored. 1. Who invented the ironing board? 2. This statement is false. What is the truth-value of the preceding statement? (Only cos you're bored ) It's too bad I can google both those answers in under 5 seconds. Thanks RAW. [shakes fist] Damn you Google! I'm not sure there is any consensus on the second one though.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Ozeki Corp.	Posted - 2011.06.15 14:54:00 - [121] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Grendell Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Grendell Hello Xenuria, on your posting history(1 year total), you've only basically made troll posts and failed in raising a loan for yourself. So I'd like to ask you, given your posting history of speaking your mind, to ask any questions you like and if I can't answer them to adequately I'll give you 100m. Yes I'm at work and bored. 1. Who invented the ironing board? 2. This statement is false. What is the truth-value of the preceding statement? (Only cos you're bored ) It's too bad I can google both those answers in under 5 seconds. Thanks RAW. [shakes fist] Damn you Google! I'm not sure there is any consensus on the second one though. Well, you could say it has a third value that is neither true nor false: bologna. :) Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Xenuria Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.18 00:49:00 - [122] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 02/05/2011 05:50:10 Activates voice of scepticism Sorry, but this offering stinks. An anonymous client? Really? If he's asking for 350 billion then he should be prepared to waive his anonymity - unless he's a) Bad Bobby b) An imaginary friend Only last month you were here asking for 100 billion - that folded early [almost instantly!] and lo-and-behold, you're back and upped it to 350 already. And on a final note this offering has the exact same structure of cosmoray's final scam attempt, with the corresponding complete lack of investor security. Edit: typo Your in no position to talk.. Your just as sketch as he is if not more. You fill your orders with your own alts to build rep. "Sorry, Your Sov Options are Unavailable due to a PSN Outage."
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.06.25 07:03:00 - [123] Ruiryu has asked me to start looking for a replacement for his investment. Any new investors should contact me or post here! I've updated the thread to reflect Ruiryu's search for a replacement. Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:55:00 - [124] Just a notice, I'll be sending interest payments late this evening! Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.05 03:31:00 - [125] Interest has been paid out. "Janet McJewstein - 15b" has been removed from the list as I've yet to receive her investment or get any word from her. "Ruiryu - 20b" Is still looking for a replacement for his 20b part in the bond. I've added a ticker to this bond for reference purposes being "GLTB" Grendell ♥
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.07.05 05:21:00 - [126] Originally by: Grendell I've added a ticker to this bond for reference purposes being "GLTB" I can just imagine the flash of inspiration you had for this one, you must have been breathless! Walking In Stations I Pretty Cool, Thanks.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.05 05:59:00 - [127] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Grendell I've added a ticker to this bond for reference purposes being "GLTB" I can just imagine the flash of inspiration you had for this one, you must have been breathless! I like to think of myself as special. Grendell ♥
Manentia manic-recession	Posted - 2011.07.05 15:51:00 - [128] Originally by: Grendell Just a notice, I'll be sending interest payments late this evening! Payment received. Thanks! Love, Manentia
jyppy Caldari Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:03:00 - [129] Isk received
Miasma May	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:00:00 - [130] Confirming Isk received. MM
Edwin Rothbard Interstellar Arbitrage	Posted - 2011.07.06 20:48:00 - [131] Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 06/07/2011 20:48:28 [GLBT] or [LGBT] would have been much better tickers! /thread derailment [ Casino \| Loans ]
midas 9192	Posted - 2011.07.07 03:12:00 - [132] Any bonds for 1b ?
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.07 16:51:00 - [133] Originally by: Edwin Rothbard Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 06/07/2011 20:48:28 [GLBT] or [LGBT] would have been much better tickers! /thread derailment lol, just my luck! Originally by: midas 9192 Any bonds for 1b ? Yes there are, you may invest anywhere from 1b and up. Don't hesitate to ask questions here or in-game. Grendell ♥
midas 9192	Posted - 2011.07.08 15:13:00 - [134] send to whom the isk ?
Manentia manic-recession	Posted - 2011.07.09 01:13:00 - [135] Originally by: Edwin Rothbard Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 06/07/2011 20:48:28 [GLBT] or [LGBT] would have been much better tickers! /thread derailment Yeah once I saw how close it was I thought I should have invested another 25b!
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.09 18:12:00 - [136] midas 9192 has sent 1b isk in as a new investor, and has been added to the list. Originally by: Manentia Originally by: Edwin Rothbard Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 06/07/2011 20:48:28 [GLBT] or [LGBT] would have been much better tickers! /thread derailment Yeah once I saw how close it was I thought I should have invested another 25b! I'll have to research any future tickers to catch some extra flare for potential investors.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.07.25 18:23:00 - [137] Just a small update, I'll be investing 70b of my own isk into this bond. I'm also debating buying out all the investors overtime, like I did with OSM. Will keep you all posted. Grendell ♥
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.08.02 20:02:00 - [138] Interest has been paid, and the rest of the boond is now full! \o/ I've invested 70b myself and invested another 90b from a fund I manage [GIP] Grendell's Investment Portfolio. Grendell ♥
jyppy Caldari Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2011.08.03 17:37:00 - [139] Isk received
Miasma May	Posted - 2011.08.03 20:49:00 - [140] Confirming Isk received. MM
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2011.09.03 19:06:00 - [141] Interest paid. Grendell ♥
jyppy Caldari Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2011.09.04 13:54:00 - [142] Isk received

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