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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.01 07:54:00 -
[1]
I received the latest EON magazine and there was an article on wormholes/Sleepers/Talocan. Regrettably, I don't have the magazine in front of me at the moment. However, near the end, the author mentions being surprised that not many people have tried to map the "path" the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken through Anoikis space.
1) Has anyone tried to do this? If so, how far did you get?
2) Is mapping the path of movement of the Sleepers/Talocan even feasable at the moment?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.01 09:43:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Cave Lord
I received the latest EON magazine and there was an article on wormholes/Sleepers/Talocan. Regrettably, I don't have the magazine in front of me at the moment. However, near the end, the author mentions being surprised that not many people have tried to map the "path" the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken through Anoikis space.
1) Has anyone tried to do this? If so, how far did you get?
2) Is mapping the path of movement of the Sleepers/Talocan even feasable at the moment?
People have tried, but so far most (all?) seem to have failed. If anybody has succeeded they are keeping it very quiet.
However I can tell you there is definitely a pattern, the topology is a logarithmic spiral.
Determining anything useful beyond that is not easy.
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Gosakumori Noh
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:50:00 -
[3]
The scans are time consuming, covering the galaxy requires consuming the time of a number of people, you are surrounded by a much larger number of other people who don't give a **** about wormholes and range from mildly irritated at your presence to gleefully hostile, and it is far from clear walking the path of the titans produces a result different from randomly popping in and out of wormholes that show up close to you.
The bang-for-buck formula has been further complicated by the question: isn't it more profitable to grind incursions?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:11:00 -
[4]
As far as I can tell, all other avenues of sleeper research are pretty much dead.
Let's see if we can get something going here then.
Where would we even begin? I haven't the slightest clue, but I'm willing to give things a shot. Anyone else who has taken this up in the past, please share what you have done! :D
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Shoo Dae
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.02 18:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cave Lord
I received the latest EON magazine and there was an article on wormholes/Sleepers/Talocan. Regrettably, I don't have the magazine in front of me at the moment. However, near the end, the author mentions being surprised that not many people have tried to map the "path" the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken through Anoikis space.
1) Has anyone tried to do this? If so, how far did you get?
2) Is mapping the path of movement of the Sleepers/Talocan even feasable at the moment?
Cave Lord, when you get the chance, would you mind giving us a direct quote of the passage from the EON magazine that prompted this forum post? I'm intrigued by the the idea but not interested in investing a bunch of time into a dead end. I'd like to get a better sense of what the author said.
-Shoo Dae
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Indecision is a terrible thing.
...or is it?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.03 02:48:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cave Lord on 03/05/2011 02:49:14
Originally by: Shoo Dae
Originally by: Cave Lord
I received the latest EON magazine and there was an article on wormholes/Sleepers/Talocan. Regrettably, I don't have the magazine in front of me at the moment. However, near the end, the author mentions being surprised that not many people have tried to map the "path" the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken through Anoikis space.
1) Has anyone tried to do this? If so, how far did you get?
2) Is mapping the path of movement of the Sleepers/Talocan even feasable at the moment?
Cave Lord, when you get the chance, would you mind giving us a direct quote of the passage from the EON magazine that prompted this forum post? I'm intrigued by the the idea but not interested in investing a bunch of time into a dead end. I'd like to get a better sense of what the author said.
-Shoo Dae
Article contributor: Pottsey
Text prompting thread: "Considering how much technology we have gained from wormhole space I am surprised more hasn't been done to try to map the path Talocans mitigated to." (typo for *migrated*?)
I noticed that information on WH mapping was, as far as I could tell, was quite spotty at best. For example, in the EVE mystery notes ( http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1486410 ) I read about how the WH's were arranged in a spiral and were at a certain distance from K-space according to the game mechanics. This was completely new to me. I have since read a couple of posts touching on those topics, but even now I'm at a completely loss how anyone came to the conclusion that they are arranged in a kind of spiral.
--------------------------------------
tl;dr version:
I completely agree with Shoo Dae. I don't like investing a bunch of time on a dead end. This is why I'm asking if anyone had even attempted to map the path that the Talocan/Sleepers took (if any) and then either figure out if we can build on their work or determine if this is do-able at all.
Good posts people!
I'm going to question some of the basics so that I am on the same page as some of the other people here :)
@Wyke Mossari: How do we know it's a spiral? EVE data dump? Dev post?
@Gosakumori Noh: Agreed on not many people would be interested. I've already been doing some exploring on my own, so I'm willing to throw my character in the unknown for this :) Also, it is definitely more profitable to grind incursions, at least unless someone finds something that no one else has. Unfortunately, we just don't know. :(
So my question is:
Do you guys think mapping the WH's a feasable project?
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Shoo Dae
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.03 06:18:00 -
[7]
@ Cave Lord
The article contributor is the same Pottsey who frequents these forums? Although I've enjoyed her posts and thoughts in the past, I'll be skeptical that the comment will lead to anything productive. If it had come from a dev, I might think otherwise. But coming from another player, I would not put much energy into the statement. Maybe Pottsey could come in here and expand on her comment?
I'll switch to bitter-vet mode for a minute: I don't think there is anything else for us to discover in the game itself. I don't think there are any secret mechanisms, pathways, routes or information to discover. We probably have all there is to know right in front of us but we have to put it all together in the right sequence. I admire those who can dedicate their time to doing so but I'm worried that speculations and forum posts are as far as we will get with it. The theories and ideas that get discussed here have no effect in the game and won't be validated by game play. By that I don't mean epic loot, I mean even if we figure out the back story, we won't unlock Jovian space or new missions or cosmic sites/anomalies. We will be left, in the end, with a nice story that about 100 Eve players will care about with no relevance to actual in-game activities or game play.
Switching out of bitter-vet mode: I *really want* there to be a mappable route through Anoikis. I want there to be some kind of cool discovery at the end of this maze. I've invested a lot of my play time hoping there is one and trying many different schemes. No luck though.
Still, I am interested in what others have to say. Out of all of the lore discussions on this board, its the idea of in-game discoveries (in this case, mapping)that intrigues me the most.
-Shoo Dae
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Indecision is a terrible thing.
...or is it?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.05.03 06:34:00 -
[8]
There might be a few minor differences between below and Eon as some of the article was edited. This is around about what was written.
" To further complicate matters with the Talocans being a migrant culture it's hard to say if they are extinct. The structures and infrastructure appear to be designed to move with the Talocans between systems. This has caused a bit of an argument on whether they are extinct are not. The difference of technology and age of structures between Talocans sites in Empire and Anoikis match a migrant culture and could mean that perhaps the Talocans and who knows how any others have moved even deeper into unknown space away from New Eden. It's clear the Talocans sites in empire are older and more primitive from a technology point of view then the ones found in Anoikis. With the large technology change between Anoikis and empire sites one has to ask the question what happened in-between?
I would assume the Talocans didn't open portals direct from empire space to Anoikis space but instead migrated that way over many years jumping from system to system. If this is right then in theory if we can map out Anoikis wormhole systems in relation to other wormhole systems and then trace the path the Talocans took across wormhole space. Once this is done we should be able to draw a line back to our space and figure out wormhole systems in relation to our systems. More importantly assuming the Talocans migrated in a semi logical pattern we should be able to figure out the direction migrated to and settle the argument once and for all if they are extinct or not. Considering how much technology we have gained from Wormhole space I am surprise more have not try to predict the path Talocans migrated to. If the Talocans migrated away from known wormhole space then surely there technology kept advancing. The first to predict the path the Talocans took could be the first to find even more advanced technology just sitting out there waiting to be found."
I tried to write the article from an in game researcher perspective. My goal was to think if I was a real life archaeologist looking into an old culture what would I do.
It was very hard to write an article that's interesting for the people who already know a lot about the lore yet open and easy to access for the people who have never heard the name Sleepers or wormholes. That and staying within the word limit which I failed at massively.
______
How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.03 09:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 03/05/2011 09:44:01
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 03/05/2011 09:42:22
Quote:
@Wyke Mossari: How do we know it's a spiral? EVE data dump? Dev post?
The data dump has the loci systems located in a clear spirals, and several possibilities have been raised in these forums, Fermats and Archamides in particular. My own analysis leads me towards a logrithmic spiral because the distance loops/layers seems to be increasing. However Fermats is also rather intriguing as well, it potentially ties in nicely with Istvaan's combination lock theory and the shifting pattern of wormholes between loci.
I did raise a thread, Anoikis Astrometric Expedition, with an idea to try and explore this but it didn't gain much traction.
I did/do want to pursue it but at the moment my feelings very much mirror those Shoo Dae has expressed, I'm intrigued but I'm somewhat disillusioned and largely worn out.
Quote:
Do you guys think mapping the WH's a feasable project?/quote]
Yes I do, but I think we need to find some more understanding, find a way to rule out some of the possibilities, that's what my expedition thread was about.
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khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.03 15:30:00 -
[10]
Only thing that worrys me about the spiral theory is the names of the sites in the different classes of WH.
If you look at it logically then a C6-C5 would be in the middle as there annomilies are mostly called 'core' sites. Then raidiating outwards we have C4-C3 sites called 'frontier' sites. Then finally at the outer edge would be the 'Perimeter sites'.
Yet when you look at the data dump map, the perimeter sites are in the middle and the core stuff is on the outskirts. Its a bit backwards unless the map needs to be plotted in a 3D enviroment to see the progression which actually wud make more sense.
Any1 good with computer stuff that cud plot this with a piece of software available to all for free if there is such a thing?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.04 04:54:00 -
[11]
Fair statements all.
Yes, I'd love to build on other people's work. However, often times, I feel things get a bit too technical and people get lost in the details. We may end up mounting an expedition, but I think we should take things one step at a time.
Step 0: Relax. Enjoy yourself. Sure this might all be for nothing. But that's just one less thing to think about! Remember Thomas Edison.
Step 1: General map and an agreement on what it is we are looking for. (Clues/signs/etc..)
Step 2: Figure out what it is we are looking for, (age of structures?/Type of structures/sites?)
Step 3: Figure out how to organize and keep track of the data we come across (spreadsheet?)
Step 4: Anything else
Step 5: Pack up and go on a space trip. (Don't forget to document!)
Concerning maps:
I dug up this map:
from: This Thread
---> Can anyone verify if this is at least a reasonably accurate (up-to-date) map? (Or if I totally flubbed on finding a map? :) It does look very much like the K-space map...
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.04 09:42:00 -
[12]
I've just uploaded my data dump of the wormhole map data to a Google spreadsheet.
Wormhole data.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.04 22:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I've just uploaded my data dump of the wormhole map data to a Google spreadsheet.
Wormhole data.
Now that's what I'm talking about mate. With stuff like this, we can correlate findings to systems and look for patterns. Well done.
Hypnotik's quote in his post reminded me that there may yet be a pattern to these wormhole things that we haven't discovered yet. I think it's also important to map our travels *through* wormhole space. A handy tool might be found here (Java program). With it, we can search the WH name/loci and plot it.
Thoughts so far?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.06 06:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I've just uploaded my data dump of the wormhole map data to a Google spreadsheet.
Wormhole data.
If anybody wants edit rights to add extra data or columns you will need a Google account and then you can send a request through the sharing button top right of the page.
However the data set is so big it is sluggish to edit within Google, a few columns are hidden from view to make it more responsive, but that doesn't help much.
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Avaan Eclipse
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.06 16:27:00 -
[15]
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.06 23:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Did you do this? Not bad I must say! I agree that trying to find stuff outside the planes is a complete dead end. Seems like we have our map and CCP is only concerned with the "top down" view of the map. This makes is slightly easier by only having to map on a 2-D plane.
Now that we have our map and a general idea of how to use it:
What exactly would we be looking for? I was thinking:
- Age of structures
- Type of structures/sites.
- Age of Drones
- Systems that have Talocan structures
- Systems that do not have Talocan structures
The "age" of the drones might be a good bet as it practically tells us in the description. Thoughts so far? Feel free to add to the list. :)
Also, if anyone has already done some of this work (such as noting which systems lack Talocan Presence), please, feel free to post and link to them.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.06 23:41:00 -
[17]
Do we know where the Talocan started from? Amarr? Tash-Murkon? Somewhere Gallente?
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Ellis Croix
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Posted - 2011.05.07 05:27:00 -
[18]
"It's a locus."
First, whereabouts, if those images are superimposed, would the center of the spiral be if both w-space and k-space were in New Eden? Second, let's say that the energy to create a wormhole is exactly the same for each and every wormhole. Would the difference in time open and capacity to transfer be indicative of distance traveled?
Just some random thoughts, maybe they might help someone a little better at math than me. 
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.07 12:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Perhaps, checkout Riemann surface
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.07 12:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Looks a bit like they are distributed in some kind of "tubes". The distribution of stars in the last pictures looks somewhat unnatural.
YZ-plane is not dead it reminds me of dopple-slit distribution.
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Avaan Eclipse
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.07 13:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tsual
Edited by: Tsual on 07/05/2011 12:51:44
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Looks a bit like they are distributed in some kind of "tubes". The distribution of stars in the last pictures looks somewhat unnatural.
YZ-plane reminds me of dopple-slit distribution.
They are distributed in tubes and you see them quite clearly in the XZ-plane picture. I meant XZ-plane when I said YZ-plane in the previous post. Apologies for that. 
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.07 15:16:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tsual on 07/05/2011 15:20:37
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Originally by: Tsual
Edited by: Tsual on 07/05/2011 12:51:44
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Looks a bit like they are distributed in some kind of "tubes". The distribution of stars in the last pictures looks somewhat unnatural.
YZ-plane reminds me of dopple-slit distribution.
They are distributed in tubes and you see them quite clearly in the XZ-plane picture. I meant XZ-plane when I said YZ-plane in the previous post. Apologies for that.
In conclusion what ever created or lead to the creation of the wormhole network, existed or moved on a straight line or is a secondary effect of an effect that happened on or along a straight path.
Looking at another map (I hope this is a correct map) that there are no wormholes at the position of the eve gate. This leaves open to speculate if the wormhole "tunnels" coexist along a path that follows the eve gate?
If this hypothesis is correct, then the path following the spiral might not be the path to the destination yet rather the path through history. Well still this thought could be just a dead end.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.05.07 18:24:00 -
[23]
I find this information very interesting. I think I know where it beings, I have somewhat of a clue how to decrypt it, and I think I know where it leads. Lets see if I can get this goes anywhere.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.05.07 19:56:00 -
[24]
I'm up for any expeditions anyone's planning. I know there's gold at the end of the rainbow!
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.08 02:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ellis Croix
"It's a locus."
First, whereabouts, if those images are superimposed, would the center of the spiral be if both w-space and k-space were in New Eden? Second, let's say that the energy to create a wormhole is exactly the same for each and every wormhole. Would the difference in time open and capacity to transfer be indicative of distance traveled?
Just some random thoughts, maybe they might help someone a little better at math than me.
I've done the in-game math around finding the precise center of the ring of shattered planets and it lies somewhere off-grid between Tash-Murkon Prime and Saminer, likely near Asesamy. That was the root of my question.
I think that this 'center' is a likely spot for the 'center' of w-space as well. I don't know how common wormholes are in most systems, but I spent four days in Saminer and never found less than two wormholes present. This also seems to make things line up well over other storyline hotspots like T-IPZB in Delve.
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Orphan World
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Posted - 2011.05.09 08:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
I started looking into the importance of some Anoikis terminology, and coupled with the apparent rough tubular shape of W-space regions, this one image stood out to me.
Locus in genetics.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.09 09:56:00 -
[27]
I've been doing some statistical analysing the data over the week-end, mostly looking for correlations between columns.
The majority of correlations so far have been +/- 0.01-0.04, which is very low and can be ruled out as (random) noise.
SizeWH ClassCORREL(X)CORREL(Y)CORREL(Z)
Size10.01-0.020.01-0.04
Class0.011-0.14-0.010.05
X-0.02-0.141-0.010.05
Y0.01-0.01-0.0110.02
Z-0.040.050.050.021
(Ignore the 1's they are just to validate my calcs by making sure each column correlates with it's self.)
There is one correlation of 0.14, which while small is just high enough to suggest it is probably significant. This is between the solarSystemX and the wormhole class. The further away from the point of origin the more likely of a wormhole class is higher. However the low level of correlation suggests that the relationship is not linear.
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.09 14:53:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tsual on 09/05/2011 14:54:03
Originally by: Orphan World
Edited by: Orphan World on 09/05/2011 08:55:00
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
I started looking into the importance of some Anoikis terminology, and coupled with the apparent rough tubular shape of W-space regions, this one image stood out to me.
Locus in genetics.
EDIT: also this
The question that opens up form me is why is a space called with the same term as a form of programmed cell death?
On second note has anyone yet tried to find a relation between complex numbers and the locus?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.09 16:50:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 09/05/2011 16:50:58
Originally by: Tsual
The question that opens up form me is why is a space called with the same term as a form of programmed cell death?
Rouge Drones (Perhaps Sleepers) are Von Neumann Machines; one possible risk of these is they become Berserker; to avoid these literally taking over the universe you need to include a kill switch.
There one possible interpretation of Anoikis could be: Programmed Cell Death for cellular automata.
Originally by: Tsual
On second note has anyone yet tried to find a relation between complex numbers and the locus?
Tried, yes.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:04:00 -
[30]
I've been thinking about the Loci/System Names, first a recap of what (I think) I know.
On the surface they resemble astronomic EPOCH, however they lack the additional Celestial coordinates data necessary to make them a true observation.
Therefore to be useful for outbound navigation we lack two additional items of information. What is the celestial plane and a reference point for zero(midnight).
My conclusion is that the loci cannot be an outward bound signpost.
The part we have available is the time-stamp element. In conventional astronomy this is the time of the observation (sometimes the first discovery).
The loci appear to be a 24Hour clock which also varies from standard epoc which is a Julian year.
This could represent the time of discovery. However given the long history of New Eden, this seems implausible.
If they are within a spinning spiral galaxy, it could represent their position at some fixed point in time. Given the evidence at hand this seems to be the most plausible explanation.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:03:00 -
[31]
Alright guys I asked the devs in the dev question thread, but then a GM decided to run interference.
Originally by: Sr Doesn't Bother to Read Anything People Type (AKA GM)
Originally by: Hesperius
Getting to Jove space through normal game mechanics
It is not possible to get to Jove space through normal in-game means at the present.
So I do not know if they intentional are dodging the question or if that GM is just being a GM. So I directed the question to CCP Zulu and we will see if someone who would actually know can answer.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:54:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hesperius
Alright guys I asked the devs in the dev question thread, but then a GM decided to run interference.
Originally by: Sr Doesn't Bother to Read Anything People Type (AKA GM)
Originally by: Hesperius
Getting to Jove space through normal game mechanics
It is not possible to get to Jove space through normal in-game means at the present.
So I do not know if they intentional are dodging the question or if that GM is just being a GM. So I directed the question to CCP Zulu and we will see if someone who would actually know can answer.
The GM is correct. Technically, you can "fly" out to Jove space, but since systems only load if triggered by a gate/cyno jump, you'll never see Jove space.
In fact, the only way to get there is through special events or a GM specifically moving you there.
@Wyke: I've been thinking about the locus too. I'm unfamiliar with charting methods and I was wondering if they were somehow related to "degrees of arc" If so, would there have to be a fixed reference point to measure these by? (Longshot theory: If these are degrees of arc (DoA), and DoA measurements need a fixed reference, is it possible to triangulate WHERE this fixed reference point is?)
I'm looking for a starting point of some kind.
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 08:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I've been thinking about the Loci/System Names, first a recap of what (I think) I know.
On the surface they resemble astronomic EPOCH, however they lack the additional Celestial coordinates data necessary to make them a true observation.
Therefore to be useful for outbound navigation we lack two additional items of information. What is the celestial plane and a reference point for zero(midnight).
My conclusion is that the loci cannot be an outward bound signpost.
The part we have available is the time-stamp element. In conventional astronomy this is the time of the observation (sometimes the first discovery).
The loci appear to be a 24Hour clock which also varies from standard epoc which is a Julian year.
This could represent the time of discovery. However given the long history of New Eden, this seems implausible.
If they are within a spinning spiral galaxy, it could represent their position at some fixed point in time. Given the evidence at hand this seems to be the most plausible explanation.
Something that would also be possible is that the J-locus is related to bifurcation locus and the Julia set, perhaps the wormholes connection between systems or appearance is related to the Julia set and thus chaotic.
(The picture on wikipedia is also a spiral)
Finding regular behaviours in a chaotic system will be quite time intensive and I couldn't imagine that a fixed from point a to point b can be mapped within some month, more likely a year (with enough manpower).
First for each wormhole system the appearance of wormholes and their destination would need to be observed over a prolonged time to see if there are cyclical regularities, from this data a possible map can be estimated which would not only depend on space yet also on temporal coordinates.
A four dimensional network ... considering that in a three dimensional net the chance that a path leads to the point of origin is some 30+ % the chance in a four dimensional network is even lower, meaning even with a map navigation is going to depend on a big database and extensive planning.
(like in the past seafaring)
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:11:00 -
[34]
@Cave Lord
Yes, that's what I was suggesting, build towards. The locus can be translated to "degrees of arc", but they would only be useful on a flat plane and would need a "fixed reference point".
On earth that reference point is north, in astronomy the plane can be the solar system plane or the galactic plane of the Milky way. One reference point is the galactic core.
In Eve we do have the normal plane and a few candidates for the reference point. Point Genesis seems the most obvious.
Regarding triangulation, probably yes. At the moment I'm working on calculating an estimate of the centre point of the wormhole systems from the X,Y,Z co-ordinates. An approximate galactic core.
@Tsual
Yes, I'm still trying to get my head around maths.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:38:00 -
[35]
@Tsual: I agree with you that the time it would take to map the WH's would be incredibly difficult. The goal was to actually see if there was a path the sleepers/talocan had taken through WH space and to map out that path. Whether a path even exists or not is something we don't know yet.
If the WH's links have a logical pattern to them, I'd be quite impressed. If it is time-based, we'd probably be talking years before we understand how they work. :(
@Wyke: I noticed that this wiki article makes no reference to Hours. If the system names are JHHMMSS, what could the "hours" be? Unless it is JMMSSmm (mas or milliarcsecond). Perhaps the hours are for mapping in 3D space? I'm just asking questions here, I have no real understanding of how this stuff works.
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Arvash
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:32:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Arvash on 13/05/2011 03:32:59
An hour in Staticmapper and then several hours in Visio allowed me to pull together
Arvash's Regional Primary Statics Map.
File is high resolution so you will have to zoom out to get the whole picture.
As the notes state it is not entirely complete, since there are a handful of systems that have individual statics that do not match their region. It also is a one-way (out) map, so the real challenging in-game work would be to figure out frequency and accuracy of incoming connections between regions, where here I just show endpoint connection to system class.
Connections to k-space, particularly in C2s, was problematic so you will notice that the k-space areas are represented twice. A 3-D model is what is truly needed but I lack both the skills and the software to put that together. In my head it would be three bars parallel (Null/Low/Hi) on the bottom, three bars parallel in the middle, running perpendicular (C1, C2, C3) and then a final 3 bars on top running perpendicular to the center again (C4, C5, C6). This would allow for clean non-crossing lines and would resemble a loosely-assembled Rubik's cube of sorts.
I think there are some interesting insights that intrepid explorers with more in-game time than I have could glean from this, and my hope is that it may point the way for good test cases for people who want to go searching.
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Tsual
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 09:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cave Lord
@Wyke: I noticed that this wiki article makes no reference to Hours. If the system names are JHHMMSS, what could the "hours" be? Unless it is JMMSSmm (mas or milliarcsecond). Perhaps the hours are for mapping in 3D space? I'm just asking questions here, I have no real understanding of how this stuff works.
This wiki article does, still not overly helpfull as for exact coordinates the locus would have to be:
J123456.789ABC (Using hex numbers)
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Anessa Jakuard
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tsual
A four dimensional network ... considering that in a three dimensional net the chance that a path leads to the point of origin is some 30+ % the chance in a four dimensional network is even lower, meaning even with a map navigation is going to depend on a big database and extensive planning.
(like in the past seafaring)
Really good work Tsual, and Arvash too. The interesting thing about ancient seafarers is that astronomy, time keeping and cartography were all needed for accurate navigation over long distances.
So, how does that apply to Sleepers, and how they navigate?
Cartesian Temporal Coordinators are excellent for keeping track of time in relation to position.
Quote:
For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points. What purpose this serves remains a mystery, but the object¦s basic functionality can be reconfigured. With the addition of a few other components, it would allow electronics systems to more easily withstand the interference from subspace distortion.
Accurate maps are also necessary, and Sleeper ships (at least, apparently) have these. From the Ancient Coordinates Database:
Quote:
A brief analysis of the technology inside reveals that the database may in fact still be fully functional. The format and layout of the information within suggests it is a list of three-dimensional coordinates, charting a path to some distant place.
Finally, what's necessary are time references for specific coordinate sets.
Sleeper Data Library:
Quote:
Small data fragments preceding each file appear to function as time-stamps. If this is indeed what they are, then this Data Library could offer a snapshot of the universe stretching back millennia.
So, in short you have a way to keep very accurate time, a huge set of coordinates used for navigation, and time stamps for accurately determining which coordinate sets to use.
Together, it makes a nifty Antikythera mechanism. Now, anyone here good at geometry? That is, can you, from this information, determine if there is any more information necessary to properly use the "data" that is described?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.13 23:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tsual
Edited by: Tsual on 13/05/2011 10:09:48
Originally by: Cave Lord
@Wyke: I noticed that this wiki article makes no reference to Hours. If the system names are JHHMMSS, what could the "hours" be? Unless it is JMMSSmm (mas or milliarcsecond). Perhaps the hours are for mapping in 3D space? I'm just asking questions here, I have no real understanding of how this stuff works.
This wiki article does.
Good find mate. Within that article, I found a link to Julian years, which are prefixed by a J... The article also mentions terrestrial time. Could it be possible that the system name/locus is a Julian time stamp? Or am I just restating what you guys have already said?
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Ellis Croix
|
Posted - 2011.05.14 01:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cave Lord
Good find mate. Within that article, I found a link to Julian years, which are prefixed by a J... The article also mentions terrestrial time. Could it be possible that the system name/locus is a Julian time stamp? Or am I just restating what you guys have already said?
Julian Years in Astronomy is a measurement of distance, not time, as in orbital transit distance. It isn't designated with a J though.
J is used in astronomy as a Provisional Designator for objects discovered in the first half of May, though the nomenclature is a bit off.
Now, that said, J is used as a designator for star names. They are assigned celestial coordinates, in quite a similar way as the W-space systems (though W-space systems are simplified). An example would be "SDSSp J153259.96-003944.1"
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.14 01:53:00 -
[41]
oops! Told you I didn't know what I was talking about. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
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Avaan Eclipse
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.14 22:07:00 -
[42]
When this thread is on the subject of coordinate systems that the JHHMMSS w-space system names could correspond to, let me present the right ascension. The right ascension is (yet another) unit for measuring angles, one full circle is 24 hours. It is one of the coordinates in the equatorial coordinate system commonly used in astronomy, the other coordinate is the declination.
The right ascension, by itself, in a 3-dimensional environment is quite useless, however.
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Captain Davison
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:18:00 -
[43]
As a thought, looking back at the map of wormhole space, is it possible that the 'frontier sites' at the center of the map show a potential convergence upon the cluster from multiple angles? Instead of spreading out, we're looking at a march towards us of a nearly overwhelming force? We might be going at this wrong. And the reason why the pickings are so slim and bare in empire space is because the examples here are hyper-ruggedized, low-tech scout units?
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Captain Davison
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:29:00 -
[44]
As a further note, yet another variable we may potentially be missing is ~TIME~. What if the wormhole systems are not just displaced from each other in space, but also in time? With the evidence provided, it suggests that the sleepers and talc's could not just navigate spacial distances, but temporal ones as well.
Add to this the possibility that we may be working under a false assumption of allied, or at least friendly states. Notice, that some of the 'frontier' wormholes have sites like 'The Line'. Want to know what you hold in a defensive battle?
What if, the sleepers have been fighting the Talocans, driving them towards the cluster in a running defensive battle?
How do we know that the sleepers weren't the ones who destroyed the original colonies, and pushed civilizations back to the stone age? If, the plot is correct, and the systems converge when plotted over each other either on, or near the EVE gate, then we have the possibility that the Sleepers shut the gate down. Any thoughts?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:11:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Cave Lord on 16/05/2011 21:11:34
Yea. To be honest, I'd like to keep the speculation to a minimum. Speculation definitely has its place, but this is a thread about working with what we have (such as locus names) and figuring out if we can apply that somehow.
I lack the knowledge and skills to definitively say what the locus is and how it should be used. Several ideas were proposed...
Is there anyone who can say definitively what the locus is and how it should be used?
Locus = J115014 (the WH system name)
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Ellis Croix
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:00:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cave Lord
Is there anyone who can say definitively what the locus is and how it should be used?
Locus = J115014 (the WH system name)
The Locus are coordinates used as system identifiers. How should it be used?
1. Perhaps you could "locate" said system in a particular grid and identify what class system is by the locus ID. I'm fairly certain others have identified more effective methods of doing this.
2. Perhaps you could use the Locus IDs to develop an algorithm to determine potential output systems. Arvash's static map is a good start (algorithms can be represented visually).
Aside from those two purposes, I'm fairly certain they are just Star designators, simplified for ease of reference. They do use ascension/declination identifiers. The catch is this; wormholes are not only time sensitive, but use sensitive. It adds a lot of variables to the system. So, understanding what might pop up next in the wormhole roulette might be the best bet.
One question before I fade into the background, are the first two numbers random, or are there any patterns that can be determined that may lead to quick identification of system class? It's been a while since I've been in wormhole systems on my old main character. I know there was a "quick and easy" system of identifying the class, but to be honest I kind of didn't pay much attention. 
Also, remember what I said about algorithms being displayed visually? What if... now, bear with me on this... what if the network is... in fact...
.
.
.
a Flow Network?  
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Arvash
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.18 05:03:00 -
[47]
I don't think the flow network idea is unreasonable.
Let me also point out a piece of data I'm making some presumptions on, and see if anyone can refute it. I've been spending a few days jumping through as many wormholes as I possibly can, and mapping their connections.
I got stuck in the C5 loop, and I noticed something.
Anomalies aside, it appears that all C5s have the same sky.
Not just similar. Not just "CCP was being lazy" - because I haven't found even one yet that doesn't match.
All of the C5s I have been in - since I first started jumping in wormholes - have a telltale set of three orange markers. You can see them above the C5 shattered planet in this picture.
May not mean anything. But wanted to call it out here as food for thought.
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Gosakumori Noh
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Posted - 2011.05.19 00:59:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Arvash
Anomalies aside, it appears that all C5s have the same sky.
It will be interesting to see if the current images remain the same when "new" backgrounds go into effect.
Are the "black hole" systems also all above the same event horizon? Is that event horizon really intended to be so large? A single star's collapse would result in one a few miles across.
The one we see:
Wormhole Black Hole
...is well beyond the furthest planet in the system, making it damn big. Is this intentionally a super-massive black hole, putting these systems practically on top of a galactic core?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.19 09:43:00 -
[49]
That touches on something I've been unable to fathom.
If Anoikis was centred on the Milky-way (or comparable spiral Galaxy) we could expect the more extreme C5 to be in the centre nearest the Galactic Core and the less extreme to be on the outside.
This is not the case, instead the most normal systems are towards the centre physically and also have generally lower Class numbers.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.21 00:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
That touches on something I've been unable to fathom.
If Anoikis was centred on the Milky-way (or comparable spiral Galaxy) we could expect the more extreme C5 to be in the centre nearest the Galactic Core and the less extreme to be on the outside.
This is not the case, instead the most normal systems are towards the centre physically and also have generally lower Class numbers.
No one has been able to answer this with any degree of certainty.
Here's what I'm thinking though. We seem to be running more and more into the limits of what we can do in this thread. Here's my proposal for moving forward:
1) Make a list of things we can log. No paragraphs, keep logs short and simple. I'll be using the WH list Wyke created in google doc's. Here's an example of what I might be logging.
J123456: 3 sleeper perimeter. 0 Talocan.
---> If you guys think of anything else that should be logged, feel free to chime in now! (aka presence of Talocan polestar)
(I'd prefer not to log data already known in dumps/websites)
2) Grab a cloaky ship and start jumping/logging. This requires time and patience. I'd like to log as much of WH space as I possibly can for better analysis later.
3) Analyze. Correlate similar logs together and display on a visual map. We may actually have a map of where Talocan have settled and where they have not at this point.
Thoughts?
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Arvash
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.21 00:44:00 -
[51]
I've basically been doing what Cave Lord suggests but in a separate spreadsheet. Make sure you also track Eve date and time of discovery as well as wormhole type (eg K162). Wyke has kindly included star type, which may prove important. Make sure if you cross to Kspace you track star type, system and region as well.
Unfortunately I have very limited online time so my sheet is pretty short ATM.
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Mina Sulva'r
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.21 05:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Avaan Eclipse
Plotting the systems in 3D is completely uninteresting. The map posted earlier is the YZ-plane, and the systems have a random distribution in the Y-coordinate. Pictures below.
XY-plane
XZ-plane
YZ-plane
3D perspective shot
The spatial distribution of the systems outside the YZ-plane is probably a dead end.
Hey guys most of this stuff is way beyond me. But when I clicked the 3D perspective shot, it instantly looked like this to me.
To me it looks helical-like...
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.23 11:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Arvash
I got stuck in the C5 loop, and I noticed something.
And here is the positive answer on the question if there are wormhole constellations.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.23 18:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tsual
Originally by: Arvash
I got stuck in the C5 loop, and I noticed something.
And here is the positive answer on the question if there are wormhole constellations.
If you check out Staticmapper, you will see that there are clearly Regions (R number on each system) and Constellations (C number). In each you also will find a clickable constellation link that shows the constellations themselves.
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Wen Jaibao
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:42:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cave Lord
I received the latest EON magazine and there was an article on wormholes/Sleepers/Talocan. Regrettably, I don't have the magazine in front of me at the moment. However, near the end, the author mentions being surprised that not many people have tried to map the "path" the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken through Anoikis space.
1) Has anyone tried to do this? If so, how far did you get?
2) Is mapping the path of movement of the Sleepers/Talocan even feasable at the moment?
Map how? The only thing I can think of at the top of my head is arranging the locus signatures in chronological order, since i recall someone said they vaguely looked like a stardate. The distribution of Magnetometric sites, where Talocan wreckage is found, is seemingly random too.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:10:00 -
[56]
Assuming datadump coordinates are in-character.
According to EVEMap, which shows the New Eden cluster correctly, W-space is shaped like a cookie, or a burger. I believe this is the correct rendering of the datadump coordinates.
Looking at the datadump excel I've noticed something interesting. It follows the same spiral that I have depicted earlier...
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Wen Jaibao
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2011.05.24 04:26:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Assuming datadump coordinates are in-character.
According to EVEMap, which shows the New Eden cluster correctly, W-space is shaped like a cookie, or a burger. I believe this is the correct rendering of the datadump coordinates.
Looking at the datadump excel I've noticed something interesting. It follows the same spiral that I have depicted earlier...
That is an AWESOME illustration. Looks like whatever journey the Talocans supposedly took ended in C6 space 
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Wen Jaibao
Looks like whatever journey the Talocans supposedly took ended in C6 space
... Or is it?
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.24 21:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Calathea Sata
Assuming datadump coordinates are in-character.
According to EVEMap, which shows the New Eden cluster correctly, W-space is shaped like a cookie, or a burger. I believe this is the correct rendering of the datadump coordinates.
Looking at the datadump excel I've noticed something interesting. It follows the same spiral that I have depicted earlier...
If I understand correctly, the locus signatures, when lined up, create a spiral path? If this is correct, is there any way to tell *who's* locus signatures these are? Talocan/Sleeper?
Also. WELL DONE. *THIS* is the kind of thing I was looking for when I started this thread. Some kind of map or travel-route that the Talocan/Sleepers might have taken. Pottsey, is this the kind of thing you were looking for as well? :)
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.25 01:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Cave Lord
If I understand correctly, the locus signatures, when lined up, create a spiral path? If this is correct, is there any way to tell *who's* locus signatures these are? Talocan/Sleeper?
The regions, when lined up, create a spiral path (although 2->3 and 4->5 are not joint). Each of the region is a blob (a locus) of systems of one class only.
These "locus signatures" as you call them are just wormhole systems... because it is the map of W-space. The centre ones (the yellow ones) are the class 1s, then spiralling out to class 2s, class 3s ... etc, they are labed on the map.
See EVEMap, under "Show solarsystems" select "Unknown space". You can find out the system names from there.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.05.25 02:55:00 -
[61]
Correct.
Yes, for clarification, I was looking for some kind of direction. Many people said it was laid out in a spiral pattern, but I thought it was a kind of "Milky Way" spiral. It never dawned on me that it was an outward-spinning spiral as shown in your picture. Maybe I'm just slow :P
Anyway, it seems like some action may be picking up in C6 WH's So with that in mind, I'll see if I can grab my trusty exploration ship and hang out in C6 space for a while. :)
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:09:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Arvash on 25/05/2011 13:10:05
While I have not had the in-game time to do so, I believe that the beat place to start truly mapping is C6. Why? There is only one C6 region, R30. This would allow someone to make a pretty solid, and hopefully repeatable, set of measurements around how systems are connected within a single region when mapped over the course of 1-3 months. I suspect that some (K162, Talocan Empire, Mental Disorders) player corps may already have some of this info if they can be persuaded to share it.
If a pattern can be established within R30, it may then be able to be extrapolated to broader w-space.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.06.01 03:14:00 -
[63]
Officially, the purpose of this thread has been fulfilled with the posting of a directional map by Calathea Sata.
However, It seems we have 2 ways to go from here:
Branch 1
- We attempt to actually map how WH's work so that capsuleers can navigate easier through them. We can continue branch 1 in this thread.
Branch 2
- We attempt to go to C6 space and see what's going on there- if anything. I believe we will need a C6- occupier to "host" us while we sit, fly around, and poke our heads in and out of WH's. So any volunteer alliances, corporations who would like to host a small number of explorers would be most welcome. :) I have a few ideas on how to keep this arrangement somewhat safe, but there is of course, always a risk. In the spirit of cooperation, I'd like to use the above-linked thread for this Branch.
I firmly believe that this fiction stuff will require in-game action (aka some "role playing") and I've tried to keep this thread on-topic as such. Whether we helped advance the storyline along or not I don't think we'll ever know, but it is quite a coincidence that the day before the WH map was posted, we started seeing action in C6 WH's.
...I'm headed to C6 space for Branch 2, so if anyone would like to host me, I'd be quite grateful. All I require is a route in, no other provisions are necessary. Thanks!
Fly safe fellow explorers. :)
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Darcy D'Spledide
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Posted - 2011.06.01 13:48:00 -
[64]
First, profound apologies as I derp my way around questions that have probably already been debated to death somewhere in the reams of WH-related stuff on the forums.
Derp.
So... W-space now has a spiral drawn on it.
I still don't understand the 'map' or 'route' you guys are talking about.
It seems the spiral was inspired by Pottsey writing an article in character. Nothing wrong with that. Just that the reaction to this fictitious idea seems to be logical analysis, lots of maps and graphs, srs bizniz.
What defines the route? It seems like it's simply a way to draw a shape that starts in the middle and runs through each region to C6. I thought that most any WH system could conceivably link to any other, with the links shifting all the time and no conventional jumping from one system to the other.
Ok, so it's "the Talocan's route through W-space". This leads me to my second question...
Has any concerted effort gone towards defining real actual in-game stuff from RP/possible hoaxes/dev teasing? I mean we're all straining ourselves trying to figure this out whilst debating it in, and collecting all our data in, the fiction section of the forum...
Fiction... Section...
Wouldn't it be worth defining where our data comes from and considering it's implications within the bounds of program-a-bility, or just common sense?
Y'know, I love Istvaan's idea of a combination lock. But I don't for a second believe it's possible, or that if it were CCP would bother to program something like that.
So why would they program something even more subtle? Like the mysterious journey of the Talocan? As far as I can see 'The Talocan' is a collection of unused trade items, half-implemented Large Collidable Structures and stuff from the fluff.
Originally by: Shoo Dae
bitter-vet mode
yuh-huh. Me too. If there was even a smidgen of actual content related to the mountain of teasing and red herrings from CCP then I would be satisfied. But the entire "ooh wormhole mystery" just seems bolted on, false, a locked-room murder mystery where it turns out the victim isn't actually dead and the room wasn't actually locked.
That said, it's not like I'm going to give up.
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Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:01:00 -
[65]
I think it will be fun to watch the C6 RP stuff unfold and make guesses about it. In my mind that is all Templar One and live RP run up Dust 514 backstory. It should be cool but I don't think we can pretend we will affect it - the book is written and rewrites are expensive.
Therefore I think focusing on driving real navigability is what we should focus on if we want to have a real in-game effect. The region map I posted a link to on Page 2 of this thread was my first shot at it. But unless there is a data dump that shows all live wormholes, types and endpoints on a daily basis, we will have to do it the hard way: record in a spreadsheet and share with the class.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:02:00 -
[66]
Cave Lord, it is not that hard to navigate to a c6 if you have a week or two free time, just go through the statics which can be found in the region tables like this one. So for example you find a c1 with a static to c3, wait in the c1 until you find a c3 with a static to c5, then wait in the c3 until you find a c5 with a c6 static.
Actually, some points I would like to add to the spiral map: It might be a spiral only geologically/physically/in a datadump laid out. Notice how the regions have different statics (R26 is to c6 while R29 is to c4) if we map the w-space by static wormholes, I think "the path" will look a lot different.
I believe there is nothing new in term of wormhole navigation. Statics + manually closing them = cycle through the target class systems. Repeat to reach anywhere.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Darcy D'Spledide
It seems the spiral was inspired by Pottsey writing an article in character. Nothing wrong with that. Just that the reaction to this fictitious idea seems to be logical analysis, lots of maps and graphs, srs bizniz.
The spiral structure is a quite old discovery, it was discussed last summer and perhaps known even before that. I think it's fair to say that IC writing was inspired by that earlier discovery not the other way around.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.06.02 01:20:00 -
[68]
To those who may feel discouraged or overwhelmed with the eve backstory and WH's/Sleeper/Talocan/yan jung/terran/whatever else is out there:
To be honest, I wrestled a long time on whether to even bother with the whole WH sleeper/talocan mystery thing. The tidbits and tiny little clues here and there were quite maddening... and then it dawned on me one day:
The sleeper/talocan/wormhole stuff are all a mystery. What happens when it is figured out? We move on to the next "mystery". Eventually, we're going to figure it out until we run out of mysteries and that special yearning in our hearts to explore the unknown will thirst for something else and EVE won't satisfy. I guess what I'm saying is (tl;dr): "We have 1 shot at this mystery and once it's solved, that's the end of it".
With that in mind, I knew I would have to take things slowly for a few reasons.
1) I love mysteries.
2) Solving it too quickly would feel cheap, shallow, and a waste of time.
3) I have a tendency to lose interest if I rush rush rush rush and then hit a roadblock. This also gives CCP time to develop things and for us to stumble upon it rather than surprise CCP and then forget where we were at when we have to drop things and wait for CCP to catch up.
4) I'm terrible at doing things on my own. Figuring out the spiral path? Might have taken me years. I like working with people and encouraging others and pointing out a different perspective. All I do is ask questions and try to formulate some conclusion or figure out the next steps.
So yea, I encourage all past/present/future EVE back-story researchers to ask questions, point out gaps in general knowledge, foster community discussion, keep things simple, and use the stuff CCP has provided to us. However, most importantly, do things at your own relaxed pace so that you enjoy it. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is the EVE backstory.
In a mystery that is (at least supposedly  ) player-driven, nothing is going to happen until we at least try.
All I can do is to do what I can and have fun doing it.
- Cave
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.06.02 01:24:00 -
[69]
Sorry for double-post, first was a generic letter. :)
As I was writing it, I was again reminded that on the WH map, there WH classes 1-9 listed. Am I reading this stuff correctly? Are there really classes 1-9 listed somewhere in a data-dump?
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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.06.02 09:53:00 -
[70]
The classes refer to where the wormhole leads and I think from that we refer to the wormhole solar systems by that class 1 - 6. I could be wrong but I dont think wormholes themselves have a value that says what class they are.
Classes 7, 8, 9 are hisec, lowsec, subsec(<=0.0)
Might be a thing, the fact that there actually is no class value. The wormhole type chooses destination based on region or subsets of regions which in turn follows to class.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.02 14:47:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
The wormhole type chooses destination based on region
Or constellations, I suspect. So one type of wormhole will ultimately connect to ALL of the systems in the target region/constellation after subsequent respawning. Hence the endgame would be to map out the destination regions/constellations for each of the wormholes.
E.g. For high sec wormholes A641 B274 B449 B520 D792 D845 N110 S047 each of them will lead to a different set of regions/constellations within high sec.
A way to do this is to have different people sit in different systems with static wormholes, and keep recording where each of the holes leads to.
It'd be best if people are willing to share their findings so we can build up a shared database so we can finally crack the code of wormhole mapping.
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Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
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Posted - 2011.06.04 02:10:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Arvash
Anomalies aside, it appears that all C5s have the same sky.
Not just similar. Not just "CCP was being lazy" - because I haven't found even one yet that doesn't match.
All of the C5s I have been in - since I first started jumping in wormholes - have a telltale set of three orange markers. You can see them above the C5 shattered planet in this picture.
May not mean anything. But wanted to call it out here as food for thought.
OK, so not only was my supposition true, it is apparently common knowledge. As I've noted elsewhere in this thread, our biggest challenge may be getting people to share data, since information is profit in Eve. We are our own worst enemy.
Wormholes reflect their own system on the edges and the system they are connecting to in the center. Here is the pattern.
In k-space, each system is somewhat unique, coded by region and star color. Based on that chart, the w-space systems are all identical. I wonder why they would have chosen to do that if nothing was placed by accident.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.09 12:45:00 -
[73]
Bump to to first page.
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