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logic principle3
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Posted - 2011.05.04 14:57:00 -
[1]
Buff marauders!
With he noctis, faction battleships are doing missions faster and salvaging them faster than a solo marauder, and thats using one character for both. Marauders should be doing the misions themselves at the same speed as a faction BS, not slower. Its salvagng capanbilities need a bit of an increase too.
The skill requirements of a marauder are incredible, so it seems odd that they are being outshined as the pve kings. (IE A Nightmare and a Noctis will outperform a paladin on one character, or, a Vindicator and a Noctis will outperform the Kronos.. etc etc).
So I have a few suggestions to bring marauders back to the level they should be.
Paladin;
Increase Native Powergrid (so it can fit tachyons and a rep and a prop mod)
Either give it a tracking bonus (not as good as the nightmare; 5% will do) or a 5th mid to potentially fit either a web or TC to help with tracking.
Kronos;
A range bonus to viably use blasters (its tracking bonus allows for this)- (20% per level for example would potentially double the range of blasters)
125m drone bandwidth and a 150m3 drone bay
A 5th midslot for dual prop while being able to utilise web bonus etc etc.
Vargur;
DAMAGE BONUS - All of the damage is occuring in fallof, and for a ship class this expensive and skill intensive (as with all marauders) surely its worthwhile to give the players something that makes their isk for ammo count? (5% will suffice enough!)
^With shortrange weapons the vargur also does the least DPS, by about 200-300.
Increase Native Speed, not AS fast as the mach, but enough to give it a run for its money.
Golem;
-Not much to be said here, as a marauder now its perfect, its just the general ship class that is underpowered atm.
-If changes were made, decrease the signature radius factor to make torps more viable. Increase torp range @ all V by to about 60km, rather than the 30km you get now.
Marauders in general;
-Increase chances of retreiving salvage (5% per marauder level?)
-8th slot, for a 2/2 setup of tractors and salvagers.
I feel these suggestions would bring marauders to the same level as their faction counterparts, and still make them viable salvage boats so you will be able to perform as well as the faction/noctis setup on a single toon.
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Nuneval
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Posted - 2011.05.04 15:17:00 -
[2]
I know next to nothing about the paladin/kronos/vargur, so I won't comment there, but your golem changes seem a bit off base.
Triple target painter golems one shot most cruisers while being able to maintain an incredible tank. (Can't fit an afterburner + amazing tank + 3 TPs though). The range with torpedoes is fine; with 2x range rigs and implants the golem hits out to around 40k with T1 ammo. With javelins, I think we get around 60km range. (Not sure, I prefer CNR for long range missions). The golem is about as perfect a missile DPS ship as we can get, it's just that the range makes it slower for certain missions than CNRs. (*cough* worlds collide *cough*). If they added another range bonus, there would really be no point in flying a raven.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.04 15:21:00 -
[3]
While I agree that the marauder class needs a slight buff. The proposed changes are over the top.
I would prefer to have the tractor bonus removed completely and the sensor strength brought up to par to the T1 battleships
Replace this with a role bonus for Scannig .
That way you could have a great but expensive PVE/PVP boats with bonuses to scanning that could be used in W space and or to scan down and run plexes. It would still suffer the drawbacks in mobility as other Bships
Since most of the defensive are to active tanking still very vulnerable to cap warfare and not suited for large slugfests.
I would not change the offensive or defensive characteristics.
Pod |
Mike712
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Posted - 2011.05.04 15:36:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Mike712 on 04/05/2011 15:43:18
TBH all marauders could do with an extra slot for ECCM, as since the ECM changes in PvE they are all but worthless in guristas missions.
I agree about the extra utility slot, being able to fit 2 tractors and salvagers would help allot.
Paladins PG is fine, tach fits don't need an afterburner, except on the few missions with gates, for those missions I prefer a pulse fit navy apoc with an AB anyway.
Golems range is fine.
Kronos should be able to use blasters, your idea seems fine to me, it really deserves more bandwidth and drone bay too.
Vargur is fine, it's the 3rd best all round PvE ship imo, it's damage out to 35km(most NPCs orbit inside that range) is great so no need for improvement really.
A major problem though is that 90% of salvage is now worthless because of the noctis, so you don't benefit from a marauders in mission salvaging as much.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2011.05.04 16:28:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Pod Amarr
While I agree that the marauder class needs a slight buff. The proposed changes are over the top.
this.
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2011.05.04 17:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mike712
A major problem though is that 90% of salvage is now worthless because of the noctis, so you don't benefit from a marauders in mission salvaging as much.
This is definitely an issue. Perhaps a buff to the salvaging properties of the ship is the way to go? Maybe a 20%/level (rounded down) salvage bonus when using a marauder? It would mean they get used a bit more in pvp fleets too (who doesn't want double the T2 salvage from HAC wrecks etc!)
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.04 17:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: logic principle3
With he noctis, faction battleships are doing missions faster and salvaging them faster than a solo marauder
This isn't really true. However, I am in favor of a Marauder boost:
- Massively increase sensor strength (uh, because of the new jamming... yeah that's it)
- Greatly improve capacitor (uh, because of neuting in wormholes and blood raiders... yeah that's it)
- Increase grid to allow for reasonable battleship utility mods (for low sec incursions... really!)
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: logic principle3
With he noctis, faction battleships are doing missions faster and salvaging them faster than a solo marauder
This isn't really true. However, I am in favor of a Marauder boost:
- Massively increase sensor strength (uh, because of the new jamming... yeah that's it)
- Greatly improve capacitor (uh, because of neuting in wormholes and blood raiders... yeah that's it)
- Increase grid to allow for reasonable battleship utility mods (for low sec incursions... really!)
Yeah, seriously give marauders more grid so we can actually fit heavy neu.... i mean T2 tachs with T2 large repair.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:45:00 -
[9]
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 599966
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Headerman
Minmatar
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:46:00 -
[10]
/signed
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:58:00 -
[11]
Just give every marauder 3 more launchers and 3 more turret points.
Im sure that will balanced the game by a lot.
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Demolishar
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Posted - 2011.05.04 22:13:00 -
[12]
U mad mission bear? I find it funny how you probably wasted a month on marauders 5 and now you're here on the forum complaining. HTFU.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.04 22:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: NoNah
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
IMO they don't need penalized for PVP... we already have faction 'pwnmobile' battleships which are far worse than any of the Marauders could hope to be (Mach, Bhaal).
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.04 23:14:00 -
[14]
They cost a lot and the skill requirements are massively beyond that of any faction BS, I really don't see a downside to making them more 'pvpable'.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Renarla
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Posted - 2011.05.05 00:03:00 -
[15]
If the Kronos could be made to use Blasters reasonably in PVE as someone suggested I might wet myself.
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Lucious Shakiel
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Posted - 2011.05.05 00:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
IMO they don't need penalized for PVP... we already have faction 'pwnmobile' battleships which are far worse than any of the Marauders could hope to be (Mach, Bhaal).
-Liang
Quoted for truth.
All they need to do to Marauders is give them the sensor strength of normal BS's. That's it. Or just make it so you never pull a Guristas mission in a Marauder.
As Liang said, even with upgraded sensor strength is won't be any worse than a faction battlewagon like a Bhaal or Mach. The massive costs of Marauders is enough to keep them in check compared to T1 BS's. Besides, Marauders should not be totally helpless in PvP, your billion isk ship should not be helpless against light ECM drones.
In short, fixing them for PvE won't make them OP in PvP.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.05 00:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Renarla
If the Kronos could be made to use Blasters reasonably in PVE as someone suggested I might wet myself.
Incursion vanguards.
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JackStraw56
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Posted - 2011.05.05 01:16:00 -
[18]
Just fix the sensor strength first.
Also yeah Kronos is decent in Vanguards.
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Andros Omega
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:38:00 -
[19]
If you recall the purpose of Marauders, they are meant to last for extended times in deep space. In game terms that means they were meant to specialize as PvE boats. With the Noctis, their value as PvE ships has been halved. So as a previous poster posted, give them something that would help in WH.
I don't know how to do this exactly but it would be great if the Marauder was designed to solo C3 sites. Right now the only BS that can solo a C3 sight EFFECTIVELY is the Rattlesnake, using Sentry drones. Maybe that extra utility high slot is needed so we could fit 4 guns, a scanner, a tractor, a salvager, and a smart bomb in the highs. Yeah, that would do the trick I think.
And take away the sensor penalty as thats just stupid.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.05.05 04:13:00 -
[20]
All the Marauders need a boost to the sensor strength. My proposed changes:
Paladin - enough grid to fit T2 Tachyons + T2 100mn AB + T2 Large Armor Repair. Change to web range bonus, rather than web strength.
Kronos - biggest need is 150m3 drone bay and 125m3 bandwidth. An optimal range bonus would also be awesome.
Vargur - more grid to make fitting artillery a possibility. As it is, you can barely fit 4x Faction 1200mms with anything useful. Not that the Vargur is really an artillery boat, but at least make it an option.
Golem - giving it 15% more missile velocity would be pretty sweet. Would be nice to comfortably hit moving ships at 40km when fitted for max range with faction torps. Essentially, make it so that you have another built in velocity rig. As it is, the time it takes for the torp to get up to speed significantly shortens your real range.
---
This doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.05 04:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
IMO they don't need penalized for PVP... we already have faction 'pwnmobile' battleships which are far worse than any of the Marauders could hope to be (Mach, Bhaal).
-Liang
The problem I have with that is that the marauders are t2 and not faction, meaning there's a virtually endless supply for them while demand is more or less irrelevant. If a faction BS gets really useful for pvp, their prices tend to stay somewhat high especially if it's a tad harder to grind for, whereas if it's useless it plummets. Typical examples of this would be bhaalgorn and rattlesnake. The kronos will always stay around the 600m mark, if it goes up so will everything else gallente t2.
Is it a huge deal? Well no, but me not being overly fond with how neither invention nor faction ship lp grinds work right now... this'd just make it worse. I'm here not questioning the motives, just the methods.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 853374
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Lt Angus
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.05 13:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
IMO they don't need penalized for PVP... we already have faction 'pwnmobile' battleships which are far worse than any of the Marauders could hope to be (Mach, Bhaal).
-Liang
The problem I have with that is that the marauders are t2 and not faction, meaning there's a virtually endless supply for them while demand is more or less irrelevant. If a faction BS gets really useful for pvp, their prices tend to stay somewhat high especially if it's a tad harder to grind for, whereas if it's useless it plummets. Typical examples of this would be bhaalgorn and rattlesnake. The kronos will always stay around the 600m mark, if it goes up so will everything else gallente t2.
Is it a huge deal? Well no, but me not being overly fond with how neither invention nor faction ship lp grinds work right now... this'd just make it worse. I'm here not questioning the motives, just the methods.
Tech2 is hard capped in supply while pirate is only limited by amount of mission runners and saying kronos will always stay around 600 when it has been much higher then that
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.05 14:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
I admitably would want some sort of boost for the kronos and now the golem though. The vargur and paladin doesn't suffer as much as their main strengths are non-kin/therm foes, but the kronos is now worse than ever before for everything pve.
Maybe it's time to find a new weakness for them for pvp now that sensor strength matters for pve.
IMO they don't need penalized for PVP... we already have faction 'pwnmobile' battleships which are far worse than any of the Marauders could hope to be (Mach, Bhaal).
-Liang
The problem I have with that is that the marauders are t2 and not faction, meaning there's a virtually endless supply for them while demand is more or less irrelevant. If a faction BS gets really useful for pvp, their prices tend to stay somewhat high especially if it's a tad harder to grind for, whereas if it's useless it plummets. Typical examples of this would be bhaalgorn and rattlesnake. The kronos will always stay around the 600m mark, if it goes up so will everything else gallente t2.
Is it a huge deal? Well no, but me not being overly fond with how neither invention nor faction ship lp grinds work right now... this'd just make it worse. I'm here not questioning the motives, just the methods.
Tech2 is hard capped in supply while pirate is only limited by amount of mission runners and saying kronos will always stay around 600 when it has been much higher then that
Not true. Supply of pirate BS are limited by amount of mission runners the agent system can support. There aren't many decent pirate agents, compared to empire. This is not highsec we're talking about. A null system can only be so crowded before gank sets in.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.05 15:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Tech2 is hard capped in supply while pirate is only limited by amount of mission runners and saying kronos will always stay around 600 when it has been much higher then that
Maybe I didn't phrase that the best way. Yes, t2 production is hardcapped(in two ways), however both those two caps are global and not local to the ship itself. However, if the kronos goes up, so does the sin, and the eos, and the astarte, and the... near enough everything, and most likely for the price to increase substantially it's not enough for the gallente ships alone to go up.
For the faction ships they're MUCH more volatile. The price can be hijacked over a weekend, over an evening, or an hour and there's no real dynamic to restabilize it. It's very easy to keep the market up or corner a faction market, while t2 is more or less a bottomless pit with thousands ready to fill any hole the market bay show.
It's not really a reason not to balance the ships, and I won't nor can't rationally defend it's relevancy objectively. It's a mere opinion that factions should be better than T2 at their specific niches(or better yet, less niched, better overall).
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 300372
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.05 15:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NoNah
Maybe I didn't phrase that the best way. Yes, t2 production is hardcapped(in two ways), however both those two caps are global and not local to the ship itself. However, if the kronos goes up, so does the sin, and the eos, and the astarte, and the... near enough everything, and most likely for the price to increase substantially it's not enough for the gallente ships alone to go up.
I disagree - there are some pretty hilarious price differences amongst T2 gallente ships.
Quote:
For the faction ships they're MUCH more volatile. The price can be hijacked over a weekend, over an evening, or an hour and there's no real dynamic to restabilize it. It's very easy to keep the market up or corner a faction market, while t2 is more or less a bottomless pit with thousands ready to fill any hole the market bay show.
The dynamic to restabilize it is "massive oversupply", which tends to hit within 1 day of any attempted market manipulation. Yes, that is the voice of experience speaking.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Renarla
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Posted - 2011.05.05 15:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I disagree - there are some pretty hilarious price differences amongst T2 gallente ships.
loldiemost
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.05 15:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I disagree - there are some pretty hilarious price differences amongst T2 gallente ships.
Absolutely. If there wasn't there would be little to no profit in invention, or at the very least much less. However, the key thing is that it moves around. Holes are made, and they are repaired. It's factored more by the cost of production than the demand of the product, and the fluctuations therein(of course there's flavour of the month ships that will rocket up and cause a temporary hike, but that's... really not relevant).
Quote:
The dynamic to restabilize it is "massive oversupply", which tends to hit within 1 day of any attempted market manipulation. Yes, that is the voice of experience speaking.
-Liang
Funny, I have quite the opposite experience. There's lots of ships which quite frequently get manipulated quite noticably and successfully. Of course I won't go into detail about it here, and I'd wager we both are aware of what I speak of, if not, yay.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 711299
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logic principle3
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Posted - 2011.05.05 17:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
All the Marauders need a boost to the sensor strength. My proposed changes:
Paladin - enough grid to fit T2 Tachyons + T2 100mn AB + T2 Large Armor Repair. Change to web range bonus, rather than web strength.
Kronos - biggest need is 150m3 drone bay and 125m3 bandwidth. An optimal range bonus would also be awesome.
Vargur - more grid to make fitting artillery a possibility. As it is, you can barely fit 4x Faction 1200mms with anything useful. Not that the Vargur is really an artillery boat, but at least make it an option.
Golem - giving it 15% more missile velocity would be pretty sweet. Would be nice to comfortably hit moving ships at 40km when fitted for max range with faction torps. Essentially, make it so that you have another built in velocity rig. As it is, the time it takes for the torp to get up to speed significantly shortens your real range.
I approve of these changes :) ... WITH an 8th slot for a second salvager :P
They are much more reasonable than my initial suggestions
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.05 17:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NoNah
Funny, I have quite the opposite experience. There's lots of ships which quite frequently get manipulated quite noticably and successfully. Of course I won't go into detail about it here, and I'd wager we both are aware of what I speak of, if not, yay.
Hush, you. 
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.05 19:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cambarus on 05/05/2011 19:09:58
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Vargur - more grid to make fitting artillery a possibility. As it is, you can barely fit 4x Faction 1200mms with anything useful. Not that the Vargur is really an artillery boat, but at least make it an option.
Most of these I agree with, but this one is a bit off IMO Varg is already a fantastic ship, aside from the sensor strength, and doesn't really need a buff to PG.
Originally by: NoNah
The problem I have with that is that the marauders are t2 and not faction, meaning there's a virtually endless supply for them while demand is more or less irrelevant. If a faction BS gets really useful for pvp, their prices tend to stay somewhat high especially if it's a tad harder to grind for, whereas if it's useless it plummets. Typical examples of this would be bhaalgorn and rattlesnake. The kronos will always stay around the 600m mark, if it goes up so will everything else gallente t2.
TBH I say this isn't really an issue. Marauders are what, 600mil to the faction BSs 800-1b? I'd imagine the price of faction BSs would drop a bit if marauders got un-nerfed, but then IMO more faction/t2 ships in pvp is a good thing not a bad thing. It makes the game a bit more interesting to see more variety, and with their limited mobility and high cost/training time, I don't really see them being too overused. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.05 20:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cambarus
TBH I say this isn't really an issue. Marauders are what, 600mil to the faction BSs 800-1b? I'd imagine the price of faction BSs would drop a bit if marauders got un-nerfed, but then IMO more faction/t2 ships in pvp is a good thing not a bad thing. It makes the game a bit more interesting to see more variety, and with their limited mobility and high cost/training time, I don't really see them being too overused.
Like I said I won't argue wether it's the way to go or not, mainly because I want to revamp a whole lot regarding faction ships, not their internal balance, but how they're aquired.
Mmh... no ship bpcs from LP-stores...
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 777899
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.06 21:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Pod Amarr
While I agree that the marauder class needs a slight buff. The proposed changes are over the top.
this.
this... although i did like the 8th high slot so u can have 4 weapons, 2 tractor, 2 salvagers... n i think adding a salvaging bonus would be good, but thats as far as id take it...
.
- Wardeneo -
- Elite Forum Ninja -
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.07 00:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: NoNah
Like I said I won't argue wether it's the way to go or not, mainly because I want to revamp a whole lot regarding faction ships, not their internal balance, but how they're aquired.
Mmh... no ship bpcs from LP-stores...
TBH I think there should be a slight INCREASE in the number of faction ships running around. The mach might need some looking at because of its absurd mobility but aside from that Faction BSs/marauders are not ships that can get out of a fight easily, and given their already high costs and the fact that everyone wants to get on their KMs, seeing them more often in pvp isn't really a bad thing. |
Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.07 01:56:00 -
[34]
1 vargur ****s machariel in terms of isk/hour
2 vargurs ****s mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
3 vargurs ****s 2 mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
X vargurs ****s X-1 + noctis in terms of isk/hour
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.07 04:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Straight Edged
1 vargur ****s machariel in terms of isk/hour
2 vargurs ****s mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
3 vargurs ****s 2 mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
X vargurs ****s X-1 + noctis in terms of isk/hour
Wat. |
Thleffs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.07 08:07:00 -
[36]
Just fix the sensor strength first.
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Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
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Posted - 2011.05.07 08:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Straight Edged
1 vargur ****s machariel in terms of isk/hour
2 vargurs ****s mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
3 vargurs ****s 2 mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
X vargurs ****s X-1 + noctis in terms of isk/hour
Wat.
While I think this could true if you can run the vargurs at full efficiency, I don't see how its possible to multi-box 2+ vargurs at 100% potential without going insane.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.07 08:23:00 -
[38]
Quote:
1 vargur ****s machariel in terms of isk/hour
2 vargurs ****s mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
3 vargurs ****s 2 mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
X vargurs ****s X-1 + noctis in terms of isk/hour
And dont even talk about "i-can-fit-4-ogre's-on-a-machariel-and-get-insane-dps"
machariel with hobgoblins ****s machariel with 4 ogres/sentries in isk/hour
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Brotherhood Of The Sick and Twisted
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Posted - 2011.05.07 08:48:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jacob Holland on 07/05/2011 08:51:59
Originally by: Straight Edged
1 vargur ****s machariel in terms of isk/hour
2 vargurs ****s mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
3 vargurs ****s 2 mach+noctis in terms of isk/hour
X vargurs ****s X-1 + noctis in terms of isk/hour
Not sure about that TBH...
A machariel (11.7 ACs + 4 Sentries) will kill a mission significantly faster than a Vargur (10 ACs + 5 Medium Scouts) and has the advantage in mobility.
Salvaging just odd BS wrecks as you go isn't going to, unless you're very lucky with the the loot/salvage, fill the gap and the longer you spend salvaging the more the Mach's speed and damage advantage begins to tell.
When you add the Noctis into the mix then not only do you have to consider the volumetric increase in available loot/salvage but also the fact that some cruiser loot is significantly more valuable than its BS equivalent (Arbalest Heavy launcher - 10 mil, Arbalest Cruise launcher 200k)...
While two Vargurs will beat a Mach and a Noctis (20 ACs + 10 Medium Scouts vs 11.7 ACs + 4 Sentries) there comes a point (around 5 ships) where a Mach fleet with Noctis support overtakes the Vargurs again.
Edit:
The Sentry loadout is worth considering. Both the Vargur and the Mach can load a flight of lights in addition to the primary drone loadouts listed and it is therefore quite viable to use lights where appropriate and still apply maximum DPS for as long as possible with the heavier drones.
--
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.07 11:46:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Straight Edged on 07/05/2011 11:46:47
In reality , you can only choose one.
You want mobility.
Or you want sentries.
You cant choose both. Machariel is a ship which does only 450+ dps at 60.5km. It needs to move in to 10-25km.
However, doing this will leave sentries behind in 30-60km. Its not viable. Mission completion time will be sacrificed.
Ogre's is even more horrible.
For example, "the score" room, with approximately 2 BC, 10 cruisers, 2 frigs, 4 battleships.
By the time machariel cleared the room, the ogre barely killed one battleship.
Yes.
One.
A simple EHP to dps calculation points out ogre's DPS is 1/32 of the gun. which is less then 30 dps. EFT dps =/= applied dps.
Thats why i said. its silly to bring sentries with a machariel. People count DPS at optimal plus 4 ogre's and 1 hammerhead thinking its the best idea in the world. In reality, only hobgoblins and hammerheads are good in the mach.
The vargur has a tracking bonus, which means the vargur can hug targets 25% closer then the machariel.
If machariel needs to orbit cruisers at 15km, the vargur can hug at 10-12km. This directly translates into better DPS.
Even worst if mach isnt using faction ammo. The vargur uses abit over half the ammo mach uses, it is only natural to spew republic ammo. Not for mach.
If a mach doesnt use faction ammo, it will have less dps, less tracking, AND no tractor.
So thats another isk eater for you. Spewing 15000 ISK every 3 seconds worth of ammo.
As i said. machariel is for people who has not enough skills. Vargur is always the better choice for PVE.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2011.05.07 11:55:00 -
[41]
Marauders need 60km tractor range.
Kronos needs 125m3 drone bandwitdh and 150m3 dronebay. (and railguns obviously needs to be fixed)
Golem is decent, if anything slightly better torp range
Vargur, I think it's damage output is pretty good, slight damage buff or speed buff
Paladin... Problem with Sansha/Bloodraider rats is the TD spam, making pulse fits useless and gives tachs problems hitting stuff when it gets too close, slight PG buff possibly
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.07 14:52:00 -
[42]
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Straight Edged
|
Posted - 2011.05.07 15:54:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Straight Edged on 07/05/2011 16:00:46
Quote:
Actually machariel using t1 ammo has more dps than a vargur using faction ammo, so while I'm spending 700 isk every 3 seconds, the vargur would be spending ... well I guess it depends if you can even find faction ammo at your mission hub, but lets say 10x, and still hitting for less.
That's mostly because mach has higher natural DPS (I think someone quoted 11.7 gun vs the varg's 10) but also because while most vargurs only mount 3 damage mods the mach mounts 4.
Vargur fits 4 damage mods. its the usual setup.
- The vargur has x2-x2.5 potential tracking then the machariel. Elite cruisers can NEVER out-orbit vargur.
- The vargur also has 4-5 more falloff and 0.3 more optimal then the vargur potentially. This is because;
- The vargur can use a falloff rig on top of T2 collision accelerator rig
- The vargur has tractor and salvagers
- If both uses republic fleet ammo, vargur has 999 dps vs machs 1093 dps but mach dps drops to 950 without faction ammo.
- As i said. a machariel with hobgoblins completes mission faster then machariel with ogre's, sentries, or wateva thimanajig. Contrary to believe, shooting frigs with Big guns is a loss of dps, waste of ammo, and reduce mission completion time
- To show how useless Ogre and sentries is, i tested it in "The score" . The second room has all kinds of ships (4 BS, 10 cruisers, 2 BC, some frigs).
An ogre can only kill ONE Battleship while my guns cleared the room. It saved me 5 shots. (15 seconds)
A hammerhead can kill both frigs, both BC's and a cruiser. It saved me on average 9.5 shots. (30 seconds)
A sentry is able to kill a battleship and two battlecruisers. Trying to shoot cruisers was probably the stupidest thing ive ever tried. This saved me on average 9 shots (27 seconds).
HOWEVER. because of sentries, i have to suffer an additional 8 second allign time . And X second of traveling time. Without sentries, the final ship death, and im alligned and in warp. Lets say i left my sentries at 30km. 2 second per "input" + 8 second allign time + 15 second traveling time (remember, mach has to accelerate). Thats 25 seconds + 27 seconds, one of the worst! of course it depends
TLDR: Stick to hobgoblins and hammers and valks. you wont regret it. Of course, unless you dislike efficient mission running.
[Vargur, Generic Mission Runner A]
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Federation Navy Tracking Computer
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Pith B-Type Photon Scattering Field
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.07 18:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Straight Edged
- If both uses republic fleet ammo, vargur has 999 dps vs machs 1093 dps but mach dps drops to 950 without faction ammo.
Actually if you wanna raise your DPS through a rig a burst aerator is the way to go -gives you 25 more dps or so.
I have to admit though if you decide to use 4 damage mods + faction ammo for the vargur vs non faction ammo for the machariel the vargur will do more dps.
As far as how effective killing frigs with main guns is - I can say this - I kill 10 frigs for 15-20 seconds with the main guns( half of the guns per frig) . I'd rather do it this way than wait for the drones to approach, go through shield and armor - which elite frigs usually succeed in repairing at least once, all the while the little bastards are webbing me, ecm-ing and dampening me and generally being a nuisance.
As for heavy/sentry drones effectiveness - you can't possibly believe 5 mediums would do better than 4 heavies/sentry.
Elite cruisers... I've never had any trouble killing them - other than the obvious- they usually use some kind of EW:
serpentis ones for example do dampening so I have to be very close to be able to even target them. I close in to 1 km - they start running away from me in straight line - thus 0 transversal velocity - I hit them like a sledgehammer( it's why I have a MWD on my ship)
Guristas don't even come closer than 20km, but they do use jamming , these are the ones I like to sick wasps on ,
Angels come straight line towards you... they never do survive to approach to orbiting range - I usually deploy 4 bouncers, sit in the center and have every angel ship come at me - I feel like a spider in the center of his net just catching the fat flies...
not sure why exactly are you bringing the frigs and cruisers into the discussion though - these are the two real advantages of AC's wielding ships - they shoot fast - they mow through the smaller ships like a John Deere lawn mower.
Anyway - to each his own - if you feel the vargur is the ship for you - more power :)
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.07 20:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Songbird
Actually if you wanna raise your DPS through a rig a burst aerator is the way to go -gives you 25 more dps or so.
Increased volley damage might be worth more than increased rate of fire. The ACs have a pretty low rate of fire so even a single saved volley could save you, let's see...
* 800mm w/o burst aerator: 3.15485s duration
* 800mm with burst aerator: 2.96288s duration
That's a difference of .19197 seconds. So if using the collision accelerator saves you a single volley, the burst aerator needs to fire 15.4 volleys to make up the DPS loss.
Confusing the issue is the lag between when a gun (or missile) cycle ends and when you can actually get them to fire again. A damage rig might be a better deal if lag delays you a few seconds between targets.
With a couple of 5% damage implants, we're looking at:
3568 volley damage for the collision accelerator, and 3444 volley damage for the burst aerator. That's a 3.6% damage increase in volleys.
I'm thinking you would need to be completely anal retentive to figure out if a collision accelerator is better than a burst aerator when looking at NPC EHP.
Granted, I'm looking at program I wrote that determines how many shots you need to kill the NPCs in a mission in order to determine which missile rigs are best on a Tengu (rate of fire, flares, and/or rigors) since raw DPS and even VTK (volleys to kill) can be a crude metric in isolation, but that's not the point.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.05.07 22:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: stoicfaux
I'm thinking you would need to be completely anal retentive to figure out if a collision accelerator is better than a burst aerator when looking at NPC EHP.
Just looking at EFT you can easily see burst aerator is better - that's paper damage of course.
For small ships - frigs die in 1/2 shot with or without rig - the faster you're able to cycle the faster you'd kill em all.
Cruisers - unless you're able to consistently 1 shot them you'd still be using 2 shots which would be overkill - again faster cycling is better.
Unless there's a ship which you can 1 shot with 3568 damage and 2 shot with 3444 damage, speed rig sounds better for smaller targets - you'd be over killing anyway .
Still in the case of a BS 10 shots would result in 1200 or so damage more with the accelerator rig while the burst rig will save you about 1.9 seconds... it all comes to personal preference I think.
me personally I have ROF rig even on my tengu
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:06:00 -
[47]
Quote:
As for heavy/sentry drones effectiveness - you can't possibly believe 5 mediums would do better than 4 heavies/sentry.
Try it yourself. It was a very easy decision for me, as i said so in my test when i was using it. In term of mission completion time, meds would save the most time. sentries are one of the worst.
Drone dps does not translate into faster completion times. There are many other factors in play. Most of the time, their effective dps is less then 30.
Quote:
.....damage rig..
This is false. You dont see that turrets arent missiles. Turrets damage is luck based. Even if you have a 50% chance to 2-hit cruisers (2K volley, cruisers=4K HP), you will find you have
50% chance to 2-hit
25%-30% chance to 3-hit
and a 12.5%-15% chance to 4-hit
and a 3% chance to 1 hit.
Since turret is luck based, a 6% increase in ROF is much much better then a 3% increase in alpha. Afterall, its basically just a 3% chance to increase "number-of-hits-to-kill", while 6% rofs lets you kill stuff faster EVERY TIME (by 6%)
Now tengu is a different ballgame altogether. A 2.5K alpha and a 2.7K alpha tengu is a different beast altogether.
The 2.7K alpha tengu could clear even a rat heavy mission like buzz kill faster then a golem. But a 2.5K alpha tengu would finish it 4-5 minutes slower.
In missile's case, every reduction in hit-to-kill is a guaranteed thing. Because damage is constant. Unlike turrets
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.08 09:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Massively increase sensor strength (uh, because of the new jamming... yeah that's it)
/agree
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Greatly improve capacitor (uh, because of neuting in wormholes and blood raiders... yeah that's it)
Maybe a good boost to NOS on marauders instead of under-rated-noctis bonus?
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Increase grid to allow for reasonable battleship utility mods (for low sec incursions... really!)
/agree
Another weapon slot - faction ships can spit out the same and + dps without a lot of effort
Drone bay up to 150m3 with 125Mb/s bandwich -once again the geddon is better than the Kronos in this mater...about it's dps...*toss* give to the Kronos 2sup gun slots so they can be competitive with all other marauders
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Rip Marley
Minmatar
Hard Rock Mining Co.
The Jagged Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 06:54:00 -
[49]
I am seeing a lot of people here that apparently don't fly a Mach. Here's the facts.
The Vargur has only two advantages over a Mach. It has a superior tank (not counting Mach speed tanking) and it has the tractor/salvager.
The Machariel will have more range due to being able to fit 3 tracking enhancers. It will do far more damage due to having a fourth gyro, higher effective gun count, more falloff and more drone bay. It is also faster, if it needs to close the range to apply DPS.
Again, if your Mach can tank it....the Mach will kill it faster than any equal Vargur fit.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.05.10 09:11:00 -
[50]
Maybe the mach needs a nerf then instead of boosting marauders ;)
Anyway, the sensor strength on marauders is rather silly, they should indeed remove it. It should actually be stronger than other ships concidering its a mission boat and the recent jamming changes.
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VIP Ares
Minmatar
BALKAN EXPRESS
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2011.05.10 10:09:00 -
[51]
I'd like this:
Marauders in general;
-Increase range anbd speed of tractor beam (similar to noctis)
-Increase chances of retreiving salvage (5% per marauder level?)
-8th slot, for a 2/2 setup of tractors and salvagers.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Crabs Collector
Maybe the mach needs a nerf then instead of boosting marauders ;)
Angel ships don't need nerfs, or maybe just the Dramiel and only on it's speed capacity.
It's stupid to nerf something that works fine (Mach) while Marauders don't and really need some love. Nerfing the Mach will not make marauders become better, their issues will still be there.
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Steinsdottir Pollard
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:54:00 -
[53]
What needs to change is:
The kronos should be a dominix. And the Sin should be a megathron.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.10 15:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Steinsdottir Pollard
What needs to change is:
The kronos should be a dominix. And the Sin should be a megathron.
Somehow I could almost agree with you
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Swynet
Edited by: Swynet on 10/05/2011 15:01:15
Originally by: Crabs Collector
Maybe the mach needs a nerf then instead of boosting marauders ;)
Angel ships don't need nerfs, or maybe just the Dramiel and only on it's speed capacity.
It's stupid to nerf something that works fine (Mach) while Marauders don't and really need some love. Nerfing the Mach will not make marauders become better, their issues will still be there.
EDIT:
Instead of nerfing the Mach why not change tractor bonus for something useful?
-I suppose if the Golem gets the tractor bonus changed for 7.5% bonus radius explosion/lvl every one that can fly them would not pick the mach, this is just an example
The only issue of the marauders is the silly sensor strength reduction. The tractor bonus is also very useful for missioning because you can create extra income from missions without spending extra time. The problem of the machariel (for missioning) is that its way better at blitzing, wich became more profitable after the loot nerf.
If i were CCP i'd make the marauders more interesting by
A) deleting the sensor strength reduction
B) make a special 'marauder salvager' that needs only 1 cycle to salvage a wreck (or something with the same effect).
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:50:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 10/05/2011 21:50:39
Optimal buff to the Kronos IS interesting. I'd prefer to kill my targets at less than 40km for the salvaging... T2 Neutrons would be something I'd like to try on a Kronos if I had that optimal increase :P
That and a dronebay and bandwith buff plox.
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Force Kon
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:25:00 -
[57]
I laugh at your comparison here "2 ships can complete a mission faster than 1". You cant compare ships strengths and weaknesses here based on 1 vs 2.
The Maurder was designed for the game a long time ago so its fair to say its slightly out of date. It was designed solely for PvE so those calling for sensor strength "fixes" are just idiots. The speed of the ship is fine, if you fit an AB its got more speed than you could ever want from a BS. I dont understand at all why anyone would want an Arty ship in L4, most of the time you will be too close to hit things, also the 100% damage boost would be too much, you would alpha everything with a massive overkill.
The only thing that needs to be fixed with the mauraders is high slot situation, you should be able to fit 2 tractor and 2 salvagers and salvagers.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:51:00 -
[58]
Why do marauders have to be for PVE? Faction Battleships are great for PVP as long as you ignore their cost. Even when you don't bring ewar into the equation a faction battleship is better than a marauder by a large margin. If faction BS weren't as good as they are I would understand the angle that "We don't want solopwnmobiles."
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Why do marauders have to be for PVE? Faction Battleships are great for PVP as long as you ignore their cost. Even when you don't bring ewar into the equation a faction battleship is better than a marauder by a large margin. If faction BS weren't as good as they are I would understand the angle that "We don't want solopwnmobiles."
They're not better, they're just for different tasks. I'll happily fight say a vindicator(or navy mega for that matter) of yours in a kronos - as long as there is no ecm present, and they're very similar. The other ships are much harder to compare as none of them really have even a similar role. It need not be mentioned but I wouldn't be opposed to fight a CNR in a golem either.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 574328
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Optimal buff to the Kronos IS interesting. I'd prefer to kill my targets at less than 40km for the salvaging... T2 Neutrons would be something I'd like to try on a Kronos if I had that optimal increase :P
That and a dronebay and bandwith buff plox.
Let's forget the ridiculous drone bay for an advanced battleship Gallente- every one and his stupid mother know Gallente main weapon is drones...
Let me learn you how to shoot over 40km with Neutrons:
Fit tracking computer scripted optimal distance
Fit 2 Faction tracking enhancers
Fit T2 long range ammo
That's it, you can hit stuff at over 40km, but that's all, you can hit I'm not saying you can harm them really. Change your T2 ammo for faction Iron and you'll be able to hit much far than 40km.
What's the issue here? - the issue is not the "hitting" factor, but the dmg one. This is wy blasters will suck hard for a very long time until auto-canons fill their own niche and don't step any more in lasers AND blasters niche doing better and being more versatile than the other 2.
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LIL TANYA Adoulin
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:03:00 -
[61]
I've always wanted to fit 4 T2 1400mms on my vargur. Why can't I fit it without cramming powergrid mods into my low slots and rig slots? The paladin can easily fit anything as well as the kronos and golem so why exempt the vargur by giving it half of what it should have in the first place. I too want to use my vargur for lowsec sniping.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: LIL TANYA Adoulin
I've always wanted to fit 4 T2 1400mms on my vargur. Why can't I fit it without cramming powergrid mods into my low slots and rig slots? The paladin can easily fit anything as well as the kronos and golem so why exempt the vargur by giving it half of what it should have in the first place. I too want to use my vargur for lowsec sniping.
The Vargur was designed for 800mm's, it can't fit 1400mm's viably, nor can the Kronos. If you want to get technical about it the vargur can fit 1400mm's and still maintain a much better tank than the paladin can while running tachyons.
That said, you've already stated enough reasons not to change how it is, so I guess there's no reason to explain it further.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 585313
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:10:00 -
[63]
An arty Vargur isn't imbalanced at all.... IIRC the thing they're afraid of is 800mm triple neut MWD Cap Boosting PVP Vargurs.
Because nobody carries a flight of light ECM drones. 
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 21:55:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Optimal buff to the Kronos IS interesting. I'd prefer to kill my targets at less than 40km for the salvaging... T2 Neutrons would be something I'd like to try on a Kronos if I had that optimal increase :P
That and a dronebay and bandwith buff plox.
Let's forget the ridiculous drone bay for an advanced battleship Gallente- every one and his stupid mother know Gallente main weapon is drones...
Let me learn you how to shoot over 40km with Neutrons:
Fit tracking computer scripted optimal distance
Fit 2 Faction tracking enhancers
Fit T2 long range ammo
That's it, you can hit stuff at over 40km, but that's all, you can hit I'm not saying you can harm them really. Change your T2 ammo for faction Iron and you'll be able to hit much far than 40km.
What's the issue here? - the issue is not the "hitting" factor, but the dmg one. This is wy blasters will suck hard for a very long time until auto-canons fill their own niche and don't step any more in lasers AND blasters niche doing better and being more versatile than the other 2.
...but then you gimp your fit *shrug*
Besides, we're talking about a T2 Neutron Blaster optimal with Null (at least I was!) of 40 km on a Kronos without any mods to buff optimal. Pipedream... something I'd like to try but obviously a pipedream. Thanks for the lesson though, much appreciated!
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:14:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
An arty Vargur isn't imbalanced at all.... IIRC the thing they're afraid of is 800mm triple neut MWD Cap Boosting PVP Vargurs.
Because nobody carries a flight of light ECM drones.
I dunno, but i'd like to see a fleet of paladins. Beutiful, albeit stupid carebear, ships they are.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:52:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/05/2011 22:54:32
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: Liang Nuren
An arty Vargur isn't imbalanced at all.... IIRC the thing they're afraid of is 800mm triple neut MWD Cap Boosting PVP Vargurs.
Because nobody carries a flight of light ECM drones.
I dunno, but i'd like to see a fleet of paladins. Beutiful, albeit stupid carebear, ships they are.
Heh, I'd really like to see Marauders be viable PVP ships. Seriously, I could make do if they just increased the sensor strength.
-Liang
Ed: Uh, BTW I can fly all of them... with reasonably maxed skills. ;-)
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Izuru Hishido
Amarr
Origin.
Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 02:01:00 -
[67]
Paladin: You can already fit a full rack of tech two tachyons on it with a rep. You don't need an afterburner or prop mod on a PVE ship.
Kronos: Use rails. Solves all your issues.
Vargur: It can use autocannons out to more than 80km. Why the hell does it need a damage bonus? I'd like to note that the Vargur is the only marauder that can use close range weapons out to that range, so it doesn't need a damage bonus.
Golem: Inferior to the CNR when cruise fit, barely superior when torp fit. Agreed on inferiority of ship class here.
Marauders are perfectly fine the way they are. They don't need a buff.
-----------------
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." |
Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ed: Uh, BTW I can fly all of them... with reasonably maxed skills. ;-)
I'll see you that and raise you two characters who can do the same.
Of course one of them is currently entombed in a nyx. 
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:28:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ed: Uh, BTW I can fly all of them... with reasonably maxed skills. ;-)
I'll see you that and raise you two characters who can do the same.
Of course one of them is currently entombed in a nyx.
You could leave your Nyx unpiloted at a JB POS... I hear this is all the rage. 
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Tel'me Am Peur
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 04:31:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ed: Uh, BTW I can fly all of them... with reasonably maxed skills. ;-)
I'll see you that and raise you two characters who can do the same.
Of course one of them is currently entombed in a nyx.
You could leave your Nyx unpiloted at a JB POS... I hear this is all the rage.
Tempting while i'm still blue to PL.
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:29:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Izuru Hishido
Paladin: You can already fit a full rack of tech two tachyons on it with a rep. You don't need an afterburner or prop mod on a PVE ship.
Kronos: Use rails. Solves all your issues.
Marauders are perfectly fine the way they are. They don't need a buff.
I don't agree that prop module is not needed. I thoroughly enjoy a mwd pve ship.
As for the kronos - the rails have 20% less dps than even megabeams. Kronos is really disadvantaged when you put it against tachyons where the difference is even higher.
This is why people suggest crazy 100% optimal bonus ideas
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:27:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Izuru Hishido
Kronos: Use rails. Solves all your issues.
This made me smile quite a bit.
What the Kronos needs are 50m¦ more dronebay/bandwide to pack a full set of Sentrys and rails that do a bit more damage(also tracking).
Also I'm somehow surprised that nobody mentions the scan resolution that could use some improvement. Ideal goal would be around 50% more than the T1 counterpart since you need to lock tons of frigs in PVE and after 20-30s lock time they are mostly already "under your guns".
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:32:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Demolishar
U mad mission bear? I find it funny how you probably wasted a month on marauders 5 and now you're here on the forum complaining. HTFU.
Hey null bear shoosh.
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