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Suggestion: Purchase skill points with PLEX

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Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 14:52:00 - [1] - Quote Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get skill points is to spend real time training. This is silly. CCP should add the ability to purchase skill points using PLEX. Benefits to CCP: Increased real world money sales of PLEX. Benefits to Player: Faster way to get characters that are interesting. Implementation of a feature like this would go a long way in leveling the playing field for new characters. Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp. Implementing this feature would allow carebears to advance to a productive level in a reasonable amount of time. There seems to be little downside.
mxzf Blackened Skies 2085	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:06:00 - [2] - Quote Please learn to search before posting bad ideas. This same idea has been posted MANY MANY MANY times, it's still a bad idea. Please search for it to see dozens of threads detailing why it's such a bad idea.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9345	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:10:00 - [3] - Quote No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 285	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:20:00 - [4] - Quote Just the sort of crap idea I have come to expect from people who havent even played the game yet. 11 day old character (who has already been in 3 different corps) Seriously, this part of the forum needs at least a 6 month character age before being able to post. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Lili Lu 378	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:20:00 - [5] - Quote You are what now, 2 or 3 weeks into a game, and you post a thread to radically alter the way it is structured simply because it does not mirror your other "f2p" p2w games? The first response post tells you all you need to know. In short, no, stfu, gtfo, or to be nice, grow a little more into a wonderful game and learn to appreciate it's unique strengths and how it should not be bastardized into another throwaway clone of other games.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 79	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:30:00 - [6] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 this is where you buy skill points with plex other than that get over the fact training is slow, or buy implants and train a little faster OR go back to WOW
Jafit Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 346	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:45:00 - [7] - Quote Real Money -> PLEX -> ISK -> Character Bazaar -> Buy premade skilled character (usually one made for the explicit purpose of being sold) -> fulfil your goal faster = YES THIS IS PERFECTLY FINE! ISK \|\| Real Money -> PLEX -> Skill your character -> fulfil your goal faster = THIS IS NOT FINE! (for some reason) I'm training Amarr Battleship V, I don't have to log in for a month but I do have to pay the subscription because it's not like the old days where skills would carry on training on an un-subbed account, so I am effectively paying for skillpoints already. Players can buy perfect Tengu characters, perfect industrial characters, and supercapital pilots (yeah, strategic assets) with isk that can be sourced from real money, I really don't see why paying directly for skillpoints is such a big deal.
Lili Lu 380	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:50:00 - [8] - Quote Jafit wrote: Real Money -> PLEX -> ISK -> Character Bazaar -> Buy premade skilled character (usually one made for the explicit purpose of being sold) -> fulfil your goal faster = YES THIS IS PERFECTLY FINE! ISK \|\| Real Money -> PLEX -> Skill your character -> fulfil your goal faster = THIS IS NOT FINE! (for some reason) I'm training Amarr Battleship V, I don't have to log in for a month but I do have to pay the subscription because it's not like the old days where skills would carry on training on an un-subbed account, so I am effectively paying for skillpoints already. Players can buy perfect Tengu characters, perfect industrial characters, and supercapital pilots (yeah, strategic assets) with isk that can be sourced from real money, I really don't see why paying directly for skillpoints is such a big deal. You don't have 2 week old noob status as a defense. You need to go and read all those other threads about how it is a bad idea, and the two things you listed are not the same thing. At some point someone will post a longer response with all the good reasons why it is a bad idea and the two are not the same. I am not that person. I am restraining my impulse to resort to name calling.
Vi'ach 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:58:00 - [9] - Quote Please no! no! and no!
Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:00:00 - [10] - Quote The high negative response from older chars appears to validate the quality of this suggestion.
mxzf Blackened Skies 2087	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:02:00 - [11] - Quote Benjamin Dixon wrote: The high negative response from older chars appears to validate the quality of this suggestion. Actually, older chars stand to gain more from this, but we're still against it for good reason.
serras bang Lucien Coven 15	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:03:00 - [12] - Quote erm hell no that would breake the game forever.
Lili Lu 382	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:11:00 - [13] - Quote Benjamin Dixon wrote: The high negative response from older chars appears to validate the quality of this suggestion. What I am about to say may come accross to you as mean or elitist or whatever, but it is really meant as valuable advice in a spirt of kindness. STOP POSTING Learn some more about his game. It is not like your other games. Recognize your inablity at this time to understand how it works. If in a few months you still hold this opinion post again. It will get shot down again. But your op will have to have more reasoned argument. Look at it this way. You do not walk into a new job and start telling everyone they are doing it wrong in your first two weeks now do you. Because that is either a good way to kill your own prospects, or lose the job. In two weeks you rarely have a good understanding of the job and the culture of those that work with you.
Vi'ach 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:23:00 - [14] - Quote Benjamin Dixon wrote: The high negative response from older chars appears to validate the quality of this suggestion. That's not the case at all, you need to have it in your mind that your going to play EvE for 5+ years before you even open a trial account and download the client.
Marcus Ichiro Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 77	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:02:00 - [15] - Quote Benjamin Dixon wrote: Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Even if that was true your suggestion would only change it so that success depends on ISK, not player skills.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 473	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:48:00 - [16] - Quote The ability to buy sp would dramatically alter EvE..... And something to note.... $$ == Plex == game time, but sp == time. There is a big difference between the two. The character bazaar allows you to buy a character for isk/plex, but that is only if another player has already spent the time and risked how they invested their sp.... Realize: Plex for sp will destroy the character bazaar.... Plex for sp will enhance FOTM game problems... Plex for sp will discourage player specialization... Plex for sp will discourage planning ahead... Plex for sp will diiminish the consequences for your choices.. Also, sp's only matter to a point.... They increase the variety of ships you can fly, they help you increase the effectiveness of a ship, but how you fly and fit your ship are much more important as your sp totals... Sure, there is a sp barrier to entry (some fits require AWU V, larger ships (BS or Capital) take longer to unlock, but so what.... A 2 week old frigate pilot can still beat a veteran frigate pilot.... and a 2 week old frigate pilot can still play a needed role in most PvP....
serras bang Lucien Coven 15	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:56:00 - [17] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Jafit wrote: Real Money -> PLEX -> ISK -> Character Bazaar -> Buy premade skilled character (usually one made for the explicit purpose of being sold) -> fulfil your goal faster = YES THIS IS PERFECTLY FINE! ISK \|\| Real Money -> PLEX -> Skill your character -> fulfil your goal faster = THIS IS NOT FINE! (for some reason) I'm training Amarr Battleship V, I don't have to log in for a month but I do have to pay the subscription because it's not like the old days where skills would carry on training on an un-subbed account, so I am effectively paying for skillpoints already. Players can buy perfect Tengu characters, perfect industrial characters, and supercapital pilots (yeah, strategic assets) with isk that can be sourced from real money, I really don't see why paying directly for skillpoints is such a big deal. You don't have 2 week old noob status as a defense. You need to go and read all those other threads about how it is a bad idea, and the two things you listed are not the same thing. At some point someone will post a longer response with all the good reasons why it is a bad idea and the two are not the same. I am not that person. I am restraining my impulse to resort to name calling. think ill homour you. 2 week old char comes in this guy has a 250 grand a year job he can get 10 mill sp per plex hey buys 5 plex hes instantly got more skills than people that have been playing for 3 years. i think this alone is a big prob you should not and quite frankly i think most others share this view ever be allowed to pay-to-win. the last time the eve community got a wiff about this we shut it down after only a week with a 10k strong protest in jita not to mention over half the comminuty signing a pettition that it would not happen or ccp would lose our subs.
Obsidiana White-Noise 161	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:43:00 - [18] - Quote I started this game 8 years ago. I should have a SP advantage. You can't grind SP like you can EP in other games, many of which are no longer around. There also is no "level 99 cap" to limit your character, creating a ceiling to level out older players with new ones. The game is designed to give me an advantage over you. The good news is that you level up your character even when you are logged off. As new players come, you will have an advantage over them. The average character age is around 2-3 years old. If that number stays the same, you will have an advantage over the average player in 3-4 years. In the mean time, specialize. You can turn a general advantage into a huge advantage by specializing in one race and one weapon type. That's how they system works. That's also how you can use it to your advantage. That said, I have empathy for you. I help new players out. In the beginning, there is so much that you can't do. It is frustrating, but it changes over time. Before you know it, you will be in T2 ships and battleships, flying almost as well as or better than current pilots.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 867	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:24:00 - [19] - Quote So much fail in this thread. OP... not then, not now, not ever. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Alx Warlord The Scope Gallente Federation 153	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:01:00 - [20] - Quote No-¦ [Discussion] - New POS System (Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft)
Nagarythe Tinurandir Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space 45	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:26:00 - [21] - Quote Benjamin Dixon wrote: Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get skill points is to spend real time training. This is silly. CCP should add the ability to purchase skill points using PLEX. Benefits to CCP: Increased real world money sales of PLEX. Benefits to Player: Faster way to get characters that are interesting. Implementation of a feature like this would go a long way in leveling the playing field for new characters. Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp. Implementing this feature would allow carebears to advance to a productive level in a reasonable amount of time. There seems to be little downside. your proposal is bad and you should feel bad.
Jafit Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 347	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:38:00 - [22] - Quote serras bang wrote: think ill homour you. 2 week old char comes in this guy has a 250 grand a year job he can get 10 mill sp per plex hey buys 5 plex hes instantly got more skills than people that have been playing for 3 years. i think this alone is a big prob you should not and quite frankly i think most others share this view ever be allowed to pay-to-win. the last time the eve community got a wiff about this we shut it down after only a week with a 10k strong protest in jita not to mention over half the comminuty signing a pettition that it would not happen or ccp would lose our subs. 2 week old char comes in a 250 grand a year job he can get 500mill isk per plex hey buys 20 plex hes instantly got 10bn isk, buys a 50m SP character for 8 bil. i think this alone is a big prob you should not and quite frankly i think most others share this view ever be allowed to pay-to-win etc etc etc. So it's perfectly okay for a rich new player to buy his isk with real money and then spend it on a perfectly skilled pilot that was built by someone who knew how to build a character, but it's not okay for anyone to spend some money on cutting out a dreary timesink I'm training Amarr Battleship 5 on a full perc/will remap with +4 implants. the skill is currently 593,000/2,000,000. As of me writing this it'll take 25 days 5 hours and change to complete. In game time that's 5 days short of 1 PLEX, and I'm getting 1.4m SP for 1 PLEX and a month of my time doing nothing. Then you come in and say "HURR rich guy pays for a plesk and gets 10m SP for each plesk and then he can fly anything in teh game and thats why its a bad idea" - No you dumpass, that's why you shouldn't be put in charge of deciding the PLEX to SP conversion rate. Why will rick new players who buy isk not be given a massive advantage with this? Because if they can buy SP directly, who's going to tell them where they should allocate it? Are they going to think that engineering 5 and electronics 5 are a good idea, or are they just going to follow the minimum skill requirements for that carrier they think looks so cool? There are plenty of stories of rich morons getting scammed out of supercaps because they have no idea what they're doing with them, getting blown up in ships they have no idea how to fit, of jumping into a perfect level4 mission running character and then asking "hi, how do I run level 4 missions? where is the agent?". I'm not saying they bought their accounts and isk from Russian gold farmers (that's what I'm saying) Any rich new players want to buy their way into a shiny ship and high skillpoints, let them for all I care. Hopefully we'll see more comedy killmails. "But players will just buy their way into more SP" - So? If they're in empire it doesn't matter, most of them are effectively playing a single player game anyway. In nullsec having too many skillpoints is a liability as you're going to face the prospect of replacing 120m SP clones if you get too greedy.
Jafit Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 347	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:43:00 - [23] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Realize: Plex for sp will destroy the character bazaar.... Plex for sp will enhance FOTM game problems... Plex for sp will discourage player specialization... Plex for sp will discourage planning ahead... Plex for sp will diiminish the consequences for your choices.. Also, sp's only matter to a point.... They increase the variety of ships you can fly, they help you increase the effectiveness of a ship, but how you fly and fit your ship are much more important as your sp totals... Sure, there is a sp barrier to entry (some fits require AWU V, larger ships (BS or Capital) take longer to unlock, but so what.... A 2 week old frigate pilot can still beat a veteran frigate pilot.... and a 2 week old frigate pilot can still play a needed role in most PvP.... First a list that reads like you're struggling to think of one real reason that this is a bad idea aside from "everyone says so, go read another thread about it". > The character bazaar, you mean the mechanism by which players currently use their money to bypass training times? > FOTM isn't a problem, it's CCP's stated game design philosophy. They're not on a quest for game balance, they like to have different ships and setups rise and fall out of favour. That doesn't mean everyone's going to plough more ISK and SP into flying whatever the latest thing is > Will discourage specialization? How? You're making kind of a big assumption about player behaviour there. Players will >Planning ahead? It allows you to plan ahead even further, because there's less time involved :) > Consequences? No I'm still going to have that 500k SP in industry that I'm never going to use. If anything it'll enhance the consequences for your choices as you plow millions of SP into something on a whim and then realise you changed your mind or you have no idea how to build a useful character (i.e. this rich new guy who just started the game that everyone's afraid of buying their way to galactic domination) Terrible list of reason, really feels like you're struggling to come up with a valid reason... Then after the terrible list you write a paragraph where you say "actually, SP isn't all that important" - Oh... so... it wouldn't really matter if we let players buy it? is that what you're trying to say?
Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:07:00 - [24] - Quote .deleted.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 672	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:20:00 - [25] - Quote I wish I could assist you with suicide.
Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:25:00 - [26] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: I wish I could assist you with suicide. I agree for you. Please make your's quick and by all means, Don't Breed!
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels 529	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:26:00 - [27] - Quote You want the real reason this is a bad idea? It changes the base of the game. That makes it horrible. We entered into an agreement with CCP about playing EVE, that the rules would not change chaotically. It basically puts forth that each skill set has inherent limits, based on how far it can be trained, and how long it takes to train it. This would renegotiate that with little or no concern to the results for the playerbase, who have accepted that skills will be learned at a specific rate. You spent X years gradually building up a character. That time has value, value which you cannot condemn for the sake of another player's convenience like this. It takes hard work to learn the techniques and strategies we unlock with our skill points. If you cannot go back in time and give us this option back in 2003, then it is not fair to drop it on us now. Let me put it another way, it might help. We EARNED our skill points with our time invested in this game. If we choose to sell a character to someone using approved means, that is OUR investment we are selling. If you turn around and let people buy actual skill points, and not characters who earned them using the current system, then you devalue all our time invested so far. You would basically be changing the game mechanics so drastically, it has many of the same effects as resetting the game would. Leave our sandbox alone. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
Obsidiana White-Noise 162	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote I'll make this quick. Buying SP directly means infinite SP. Buying characters means finite SP and finite choices. That is the difference. It is as big a gap as infinite to finite. Note that there is no way to transfer SP from one character to another. You can only buy characters that are player made and grown the old fashioned way. A 50 mil SP character takes over two years to make. There are only so many of them around.
Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:34:00 - [29] - Quote The basis of your argument "I earned my SP by paying a subscription for a long time" is in no way valid. It is already possible to purchase large SP characters on the character market. My suggestion is just a modification of the existing system that would allow a player to purchase SP and apply them exactly as they wanted instead of purchasing somebody elses idea of the correct skill mix. Also, CCP has regularly altered the game contract. Most recently, they redesigned the mining barges. This cut the value of Ice by 45% or more. Previously they made changes that resulted in one million or more SP refunds.
Benjamin Dixon The Big Schism 0	Posted - 2012.09.04 22:37:00 - [30] - Quote The fear of Infinite SP is reasonable. One way to address it would be to limit SP purchases to some reasonable number, perhaps 20 or 25 million.

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