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Verminus
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 18:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:
I believe you're mistaken. A generally accepted definition of pay to win is "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."
CCP don't allow you to buy better anything with cash. All they allow you to do is exchange RL money for plex. Plex have various uses, one of which is to sell them for isk so someone else gets to carry on playing whilst you get isk which you can use to only buy things you could have bought with isk you'd made in game.
Therefore you're skewing the definition of pay 2 win to suit your argument.
Kinda sorta(btw urban dictionary is not a great reference) the real definition would be something along the lines of the ability to acquire any benefit in game with the use of real world currency. Be it XP gains/boosts, items, items that boost abilitys, pre leveled toons or in eve's case pre trained toons, etc.
With that in mind you may want to rethink your view on the character bazaar because it is a p2w avenue it is just limited.
I personally do not see an issue with plex = sp if the amount of sp that is gained per plex is limited as well as the total amount of sp gained via plex being limited. Say something like 6 plex = 5 million sp head start package can only be purchased one time per toon/account.
That way it is limited to not breaking the game but instead giving a little head start bump to new players if they desire and the same package would be available to vets to provide a little sp bump if they so choose just rename it. |

Eve Austrene
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
Most of people in this topic miss the point.
It is not about what you can do. It is about what you can't do. Even with years of training, and buying characters you still will not be able to do everything in the game on your own. You have 20m skill point and can fly Minnie marauder - great. Can you fly caldarli logistics? Or ammar carrier? Or refine ore at max proficiency? Have perfect exploration skills? No you can't. Even if you excel at 2-3 fields you can't cover it all. You need help of others. That's just how world works. Ant this is what fosters relationship between players - mutual goals, needs and necessity to rely on each other. This is what makes EVE great.
By proposing buying SP for ISK you are breaking this system. This is why I say no.
Tbh you need only a couple of million sp to be a good frigate pilot, and you can contribute a lot to any combat, and fulfill important roles in fleet. You can get that easily in month or 2 of training. What you will not get is player experience which is much more important. So I say get into decent training corp, learn the ropes, and the we'll talk.
|

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
761
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
No |

Tidurious
ResLife Can Suck It
226
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
No. This is a horrible ******* idea and you should biomass yourself immediately out of shame for not being able to read or search. You sir are an idiot.
Additionally - the character bazaar is also a horrible tool that should never have been invented in the first place, and should be removed as soon as possible. EVE should not have ANY kind of way to purchase a character or SP. |

xXBlackxxStarXx
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 23:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Vi'ach wrote:Benjamin Dixon wrote:The high negative response from older chars appears to validate the quality of this suggestion. That's not the case at all, you need to have it in your mind that your going to play EvE for 5+ years before you even open a trial account and download the client.
Sounds like work to me.....isn't this suppose to be entertaining instead of monotonous? Guess you just answered the question of why Eve can't top 400K active subscriptions without opening a completely new China based setup...but ok whatever Flame on I guess ^_^ |

AstraPardus
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 01:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
I would like to take this time to guide you to the Character Bazaar, have fun. Otherwise, train up your skills, like the rest of us.
I dislike you and your idea, yet there is no button for this...so i'll just say it, here. Every time I post is Pardy time! :3 |

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
184
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 04:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. .
That is why you fail. |

Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 07:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
So basically in summary:
1) A lot of old timers yelling and screaming that "newbies can't understand / shouldn't comment on this," despite having an OBVIOUS conflict of interest for this change not happening.
2) Newer players pointing out that there's no real logical reason for skills to work like they do now, despite having an OBVIOUS conflict of interest in favor of having this change happen.
As far as I can tell, you are both right and wrong. I read though all of that and did not really see any particularly good reason why it would hurt the game. Nor did I see any particulatly good reason why it would HELP the game.
The old timers don't have any "right" to their skill points. They did not, in fact, enter into any sort of magical "contract" with CCP over such things. Show me the terms of service you agreed to that said they would never dramatically shift the game rules in a way that would violate your original expectations... Because if it's not in a legal contract that came along at the moment you handed your money over, then you've got nothing. Anything else is just a game rule that they decided way back when, and that you didn't ask for or give anything special for, and there's no good reason why they couldn't change it now in good conscience, if they saw some reason to. That wouldn't be a "violation" of anything.
Nor would it dramatically imbalance anything. All those people who have been around for years and years have also been training alts for years and years, and you can buy a character on the bazaar that is just about as powerful as anybody else in existence in the game, more or less, if you want to. And that means that with enough money, one person CAN do anything they feel like, over a large enough collection of old alts with various enough skills. If they were to allow people to buy skill points, they would probably cap it at a maximum that would not allow people to go to numbers that far outstrip those achieved by the bulk of the loyal player base over time (though even if they didn't... tough noogies. Plus, old timers could still buy points too, and they'd still have their same advantage in not having to pay for all of what they have already).
On the other hands, newbies don't really have any good arguments here either, that I can see. Why should you necessarily have the right to catch up to people who have been around forever? 1) The point of a game is not to be fair, necessarily. The point is to make money, and if skill advantages keep the loyal, paying customers around for 10 years, then maybe they're not such a bad idea for CCP? and 2) Even if you could buy skill points, newbies would still get their asses handed to them on a platter when they went out and flew in actual battles, not knowing what they're doing. Old timers will always have an advantage, one locked away in their brains in the form of experience, even if not in the game mechanics. So to some extent, you're just wishing for fairness that will never happen, even if you get what you want.
So... I say everyone just knock it off. Or come up with some argument, SOMEBODY, that actually objectively makes sense and is not an extremely obvious thin disguise for something that benefits you? |

Daisai
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
54
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 15:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
This is a good idea. It allows for older players with a larger amount of isk getting alt to skill in the way they want and name it the way they want. Something that isnt the case with the character bazaar.
Any downsides some people can come up with also have their downside on the character bazaar, either you spend the plex on isk to get a character on the character bazaar. Or you spend the plex on getting free skillpoints to spend on skills you want.
Its also funny how those failure gamers comment about "go back to wow", seems the gaming newbies dont know any other mmo's.
If for example the amount of skillpoints you get in 1 month without implants gets you around 1.1mil sp. So if you get something like 50-75% of that it allows for people who are willing to spend money to skill their alts ( or mains ) faster. It also gives people who are willing to spend time to get to their goal a chance to get there sooner then people who just skill up and slack of doing nothing.
I suppose this is the only thing people might see something wrong with it, players who have been playing this game for a long time however never really put alot of effort into it. Players who basicly dont like it that in games when someone puts in the effort to get to a goal has an advantage over players who dont spend the effort to get to their goal.
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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
104
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 19:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
Why is this completely f---ed up thread still alive? Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |

Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
401
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
this..
if you want more skillpoints pony up and buy a higher SP toon. the whole payign for thigns with plex is getting out of hand.. PLEXaid's.. plex 4 fanfest tickets.. plex for charater xfer.. and plex are nearly 600m still. |

Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
401
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. . That is why you fail.
indeed, like how a less then 800k SP toon managed to ransom near 1bill+ from a jumpfreighter in Lowsec. he didnt need millions of SP just a little knoledge of what he was doing. |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
11443
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 01:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Daisai wrote:This is a good idea. It allows for older players with a larger amount of isk getting alt to skill in the way they want and name it the way they want. Something that isnt the case with the character bazaar. Which is exactly why it's a bad idea.
This will never happen, ever. 
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
176
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills.
This already shows how little you know about the game.
Please try to understand what you're talking about before making suggestions like these. |

Siobhan MacLeary
BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno
54
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 12:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get skill points is to spend real time training.
This is silly.
CCP should add the ability to purchase skill points using PLEX.
Benefits to CCP: Increased real world money sales of PLEX. Benefits to Player: Faster way to get characters that are interesting.
Implementation of a feature like this would go a long way in leveling the playing field for new characters.
Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp.
Implementing this feature would allow carebears to advance to a productive level in a reasonable amount of time.
There seems to be little downside.
Jesus christ no.
Just no.
First, success in EVE does not depend on skill points. It very much does depend on player skill - I'm nearly able to fly a capital ship, but since I don't know how to fly one effectively, then someone who does know how to fly one effectively has a massive advantage over me DESPITE HAVING THE SAME ABILITIES INGAME.
Spending real time investing in skills is not silly - you can't just spend money IRL to have knowledge injected into your brain, why should you have that ability in EVE? Especially since you'd be giving some rich bastard the ability to fly - and lose - supercaps within weeks of his trial switching over to a paid account. Cue endless complaining about how X is OP.
The playing field is already level - a two-week old frigate pilot who knows EXACTLY how to use his ship and fit will trounce a two year old frigate pilot who is just getting into PvP.
You don't need to "step up" to PvP, you need to step OUT of your ******* bubble and grow a pair.
If you're being a carebear and want to be productive, then you need to be patient instead of acting like a child and wanting everything now.
You should just stop now and spend some time in Dreddit or Fweddit flying hero tackle. |

Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 05:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
NO. This is a VERY bad suggestion... possibly the worst i have seen on here.
Let me put myself in a n00bs shoes again. Oh hello ive just started playing, YAY Plex!!!! YAY i can fly a titan. OH NO I LOST A TITAN.
This would just end soo badly its unreal. |

Sidus Rado
Sidus Rado Tax Free Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 06:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
I think that plex for sp is not good idea. But it will be nice to see other possibilities to accelerate learning process. For example to make new kind of cerebral accelerator which is availeble for all characters (not for only new created), without damage and rate of fire bonus and which lasts 30 days. Price for that kind of cerebral accelerator 1 plex. |

Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
134
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 10:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Real money for an in-game advantage is something CCP stated it will never implement. Google Jita Riots if you want to see what would happen if they ever tried to implement your incredibly bad idea. If you want microtransactions then go play Dust 514.
|

Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
145
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 11:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills.
False.
But let's pretend it's true for argument's sake.
Essentially you want to change it to "Success in EVE depends on the thickness of your RL wallet, not player skills."
Is that better?
|

Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 16:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Thomas Gore wrote:Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills.
False. But let's pretend it's true for argument's sake. Essentially you want to change it to "Success in EVE depends on the thickness of your RL wallet, not player skills." Is that better?
Well in that case ill just stop playing now.... This is another reason you cant do this. Priviliged little rich boys will have all the sp they want, where as normal people will still just have to crawl through the skill ques. |

Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
169
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 18:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp.
because you can't train a character to be fully PVP ready in less than two days *rolls eyes*
|

Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
424
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 20:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote:NO. This is a VERY bad suggestion... possibly the worst i have seen on here.
Let me put myself in a n00bs shoes again. Oh hello ive just started playing, YAY Plex!!!! YAY i can fly a titan. OH NO I LOST A TITAN.
This would just end soo badly its unreal. I just want to say that I doubt a player actually new to the game would get as far as being able to sit in their "new titan", because someone would probably scam it out from under them first. http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
382
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 21:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get skill points is to spend real time training.
This is silly.
CCP should add the ability to purchase skill points using PLEX.
Benefits to CCP: Increased real world money sales of PLEX. Benefits to Player: Faster way to get characters that are interesting.
Implementation of a feature like this would go a long way in leveling the playing field for new characters.
Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp.
Implementing this feature would allow carebears to advance to a productive level in a reasonable amount of time.
There seems to be little downside.
absolutely not. How is your idea not more pay to win? it's already been shown that players with only a month of training under their belts can pvp just fine. put in the time to train.. or pay someone who already has. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |

Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
298
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 21:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
Daisai wrote:This is a good idea. It allows for older players with a larger amount of isk getting alt to skill in the way they want and name it the way they want. Something that isnt the case with the character bazaar.
Any downsides some people can come up with also have their downside on the character bazaar, either you spend the plex on isk to get a character on the character bazaar. Or you spend the plex on getting free skillpoints to spend on skills you want. Ok to prove you wrong . . .
Have you ever heard of inflation? like if CCP were to dump a bunch of minerals on the market for free, it would devalue all of the rest of the minerals because the price would drop right? or if CCP gave everyone a billion isk for christmas, each isk would be worth less because the price of everything would go up.
well this is the same concept; if CCP dumps a bunch of SP on the market via a plex>SP system, it devalues the SP everyone else has. The character bazaar doesnt do this because all the SP being sold on the bazaar was skilled up by "normal" means
This is also why PLEX dont contribute to inflation because youre not getting ISK from CCP, youre getting it from someone else who had to work for it.
The OP's suggestion is along the lines of "why do we have to deal with PLEX, why cant CCP just sell ISK?" this is a bad idea because of inflation just like selling SP is a bad idea because of inflation. |

Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
That sounds like a great idea...
If you want to completely destabilize the core foundation and value of the game-play sandbox. |

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
136
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
what, what lemme guess. the minerals you mine are free aren't they?? |

Sean Parisi
Meridian Commonwealth
112
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Benjamin Dixon wrote:Success in Eve depends on skill points, not player skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get skill points is to spend real time training.
This is silly.
CCP should add the ability to purchase skill points using PLEX.
Benefits to CCP: Increased real world money sales of PLEX. Benefits to Player: Faster way to get characters that are interesting.
Implementation of a feature like this would go a long way in leveling the playing field for new characters.
Implementing this feature will allow more players to "step up" to pvp.
Implementing this feature would allow carebears to advance to a productive level in a reasonable amount of time.
There seems to be little downside.
Actually no, skill points do not determine your success in EvE . They can aid in it, but how you apply the skill points you have is the most essential factor. Also it is not silly, it requires us to be patient, to learn to use the skill points we have before gaining new ones. The fact that I can gain "Levels" while at work or doing a project makes this game leaps and bounds better then WoW. It allows me to keep improving without spending all my time on the game. New players level the playing field by specializing, within a month they can be competitive. Application over abundance. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1180
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
This is a dumb idea, so is the little TEST nubbin trying to support it. |

Jezza McWaffle
EVOL Command
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 19:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
This is a terrible idea on the pure basis that it evades time. With time being the only constant within EVE.
In WOW you can grind, which means time is irrelevant past how many hours a week your putting in. Whereas with EVE your suggesting to bypass training time. This bypasses the very constant within EVE. It is the sole reason why it will never happen. |

Darkblad
100 Percent Grey
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 09:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
.deleted |
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