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Floydd Heywood	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:07:00 - [31] I'm afraid there are so many bots that EVE would lose a sigificant share of its subscriptions if they were banned. Now bots don't contribute, and I'm pretty sure they don't pay their subs with real money but PLEX. The likely problem is that most of these bots belong to 0.0 alliances which finance their wars with them. If CCP were to take away their money printing machines, they'd first cry and then rage-quit. Anyhow that is the only sane explanation I can think of. Bots are extremely easy to recognize and CCP could identify and ban 99% of them within a day if they wanted to. They don't, so it's clear that they can't do it for some purely political reason. Botting seems to be surprisingly easy. A few weeks ago a new player joined our corp. He had only been in the game for two weeks, but we discovered that he was bot-mining all night in a destroyer(!). (We told him to stop it, he didn't, we kicked him out.)
Tyburn Stannis Caldari Xenon Salvage Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Efraya Posting in a thread where people have spent time and effort to collect this information and present a decent case to CCP and there isn't a CCP response. Actually all it is a thread of allegations. I could repost the exact same text as the OP with random names inserted claiming it was based on observation and extrapolation, and it would not be proof of anything except the fact I can write a very convincing description. It's very simple; if you have suspicions, or believe you have proof of anything that breaks the EULA or the TOS, or if you want a "GM response plx" then you send a petition or you send an e-mail. CCP then investigate and gather information for themselves, and then take whatever action they deem appropriate for that individual case. They do not have to tell the person who reported it what that action is, and they certainly do not have to announce it publicly. Don't get me wrong, because bots, exploiters, macro's, hakcs - all **** me off no end. But this isn't the way to deal with it.
The Offerer Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:09:00 - [33] Edited by: The Offerer on 12/05/2011 11:09:42 This is just in: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509907 Quote: Client Modification or exploiting û First Offense û Permanent Ban People involved in the creation and distribution of bots or exploits û First Offense û Permanent Ban Players found to be botting: ò First offense û 14 day ban ò Second offense û 30 day ban ò Third offense û Permanent ban +1 for CCP Sreegs. Now we're talking.
Jyana Petrovskaya	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:18:00 - [34] i'm quite sure CCP give a ** about bots. a friend of mine and i tried how fast ccp reacts on a bot report he startet using a bot wich he found by google and botted for 10 days or so (its an injection bot so we thought hey ccp is going to bust him within hours but nothign happend) after that i wrote a petition with the char name, the patters he's using and a link to the botting site and added a detailed description of the bot behaviour. standard bla bla we're looking into it and peti now closed bull**. still nothing happened after that i red on the forums that we could contact ccp sreegs directly by mailing to [email protected] so i did and yet no answer nor a ban of the named acc. hes still botting for like 10h to 15h per day in the same system the mail i'v sent: Hi CCP Security Staff, On my journey trough the Internet i discovered the Site http://www.xxxxxx.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=2 (xxxSoft xxx space xxx an Option to Highjack the Client) and Quxxx http://forum.xxxx.com/yaf_topics2_xxx.aspx (dotnet App running on xxxx Framework ) Bot able to run missions. I already detected the User Txxx Dxxxx using this kind of bot to run Lvl 4 Missions. The Bot itself directly writes into the Client without interacting with the UI. It seems that the python27.dll is somehow of a keyfile for the Bot to directly Access Eve Functions. Im not that much into Programming as you are, so pls have a look and maybe you are able to prevent Users of using this Kind of Bot Regards xxxx its been sent on the 25th of march 2011

CCP Sreegs	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Jyana Petrovskaya i'm quite sure CCP give a ** about bots. a friend of mine and i tried how fast ccp reacts on a bot report he startet using a bot wich he found by google and botted for 10 days or so (its an injection bot so we thought hey ccp is going to bust him within hours but nothign happend) after that i wrote a petition with the char name, the patters he's using and a link to the botting site and added a detailed description of the bot behaviour. standard bla bla we're looking into it and peti now closed bull**. still nothing happened after that i red on the forums that we could contact ccp sreegs directly by mailing to [email protected] so i did and yet no answer nor a ban of the named acc. hes still botting for like 10h to 15h per day in the same system the mail i'v sent: Hi CCP Security Staff, On my journey trough the Internet i discovered the Site http://www.xxxxxx.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=2 (xxxSoft xxx space xxx an Option to Highjack the Client) and Quxxx http://forum.xxxx.com/yaf_topics2_xxx.aspx (dotnet App running on xxxx Framework ) Bot able to run missions. I already detected the User Txxx Dxxxx using this kind of bot to run Lvl 4 Missions. The Bot itself directly writes into the Client without interacting with the UI. It seems that the python27.dll is somehow of a keyfile for the Bot to directly Access Eve Functions. Im not that much into Programming as you are, so pls have a look and maybe you are able to prevent Users of using this Kind of Bot Regards xxxx its been sent on the 25th of march 2011 Suffice to say I did receive your email and I apologize that I don't respond to every single one I get. I can't discuss specific actions related to a specific bot or botter. This makes the security inbox appear to be a black hole but we're working on some ways to rectify that.

Sentinel 7	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:39:00 - [36] I generally find that precise and complete descriptions combined with clarity of language and ease of reading are directly proportional to CCP response times. Current record to a concise and complete report: three minutes. You failed to mention where or when the bot was active. "i saw a bad thing, go look for it urself" in a such a vast gameworld generating immense data traffic by the second isn't very helpful. By the way, hope your "friend" never wants to play EVE again, since you just got all his accounts banned if this report of yours goes through...
Jyana Petrovskaya	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:49:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Sreegs Originally by: Jyana Petrovskaya i'm quite sure CCP give a ** about bots. a friend of mine and i tried how fast ccp reacts on a bot report he startet using a bot wich he found by google and botted for 10 days or so (its an injection bot so we thought hey ccp is going to bust him within hours but nothign happend) after that i wrote a petition with the char name, the patters he's using and a link to the botting site and added a detailed description of the bot behaviour. standard bla bla we're looking into it and peti now closed bull. still nothing happened after that i red on the forums that we could contact ccp sreegs directly by mailing to [email protected] so i did and yet no answer nor a ban of the named acc. hes still botting for like 10h to 15h per day in the same system the mail i'v sent: Hi CCP Security Staff, On my journey trough the Internet i discovered the Site http://www.xxxxxx.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=2 (xxxSoft xxx space xxx an Option to Highjack the Client) and Quxxx http://forum.xxxx.com/yaf_topics2_xxx.aspx (dotnet App running on xxxx Framework ) Bot able to run missions. I already detected the User Txxx Dxxxx using this kind of bot to run Lvl 4 Missions. The Bot itself directly writes into the Client without interacting with the UI. It seems that the python27.dll is somehow of a keyfile for the Bot to directly Access Eve Functions. Im not that much into Programming as you are, so pls have a look and maybe you are able to prevent Users of using this Kind of Bot Regards xxxx its been sent on the 25th of march 2011 Suffice to say I did receive your email and I apologize that I don't respond to every single one I get. I can't discuss specific actions related to a specific bot or botter. This makes the security inbox appear to be a black hole but we're working on some ways to rectify that. hey thx for your swift reply i'm not talking about responding every single mail i'm talking about consequences for the ones using such bots. neither the petition nor the email triggered any sign of action against this bot user and the bot itself and thats the frustrating part. we've put quite some time and money into this to give as much details as possible to ccp to fix this bull** but the attemp seems to be very fruitless same goes for via petition reported characters being offered and sold @ ebay. all still alive and online. most of the ebay links already exceeded the 60d period where the auction is still visible just give clear facts that we who care about eve, are a pita and better should stay calm.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:51:00 - [38] Edited by: baltec1 on 12/05/2011 11:53:12 Would be cool to have a sticky with info on what CCP want people to put down when reporting bots to make life easyer for all and so sreegs doesn't get square eyes reading all the rabble he must get every day. Would be even better to have a ban list so we the plebs can see the punishment.
Jyana Petrovskaya	Posted - 2011.05.12 11:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Sentinel 7 I generally find that precise and complete descriptions combined with clarity of language and ease of reading are directly proportional to CCP response times. Current record to a concise and complete report: three minutes. You failed to mention where or when the bot was active. "i saw a bad thing, go look for it urself" in a such a vast gameworld generating immense data traffic by the second isn't very helpful. By the way, hope your "friend" never wants to play EVE again, since you just got all his accounts banned if this report of yours goes through... those details have been submittet via named petition. the mail was some sort lets give it a try this way. and yes hes been fully aware of what i'v been doing as its been a joint project of both of us
Wayne Slob Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.05.12 12:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Tyburn Stannis Originally by: The Offerer Why am I doing this? Better question - why are you doing it publicly? If you have this sort of information the correct thing to do is petition or e-mail it, not make a thread on the forum. (Yes, I know you said there was a petition linking to this thread, but that's not what forums are for) There is no need to make it public, and in fact you've just made it more difficult for CCP by warning every single named "suspect" to change their alleged Well, let's say the culprits actually read this forum, and take heed of the information, and reduce their hours spent grinding. Wouldn't their previous login times have been recorded in the logs somewhere? And wouldn't that information be easy to find by those on the inside? And wouldn't every standings change record be recorded in the logs? And wouldn't it be folly to look at the logs and see they were at one time, for a prolonged period, gaining standings 23/7, even if they did change their behaviour now? ibt "logs, what logs?" comments.
Aeronwen Carys Empire of Dust	Posted - 2011.05.12 12:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Tyburn Stannis Originally by: Efraya Posting in a thread where people have spent time and effort to collect this information and present a decent case to CCP and there isn't a CCP response. Actually all it is a thread of allegations. I could repost the exact same text as the OP with random names inserted claiming it was based on observation and extrapolation, and it would not be proof of anything except the fact I can write a very convincing description. It's very simple; if you have suspicions, or believe you have proof of anything that breaks the EULA or the TOS, or if you want a "GM response plx" then you send a petition or you send an e-mail. CCP then investigate and gather information for themselves, and then take whatever action they deem appropriate for that individual case. They do not have to tell the person who reported it what that action is, and they certainly do not have to announce it publicly. Don't get me wrong, because bots, exploiters, macro's, hakcs - all **** me off no end. But this isn't the way to deal with it. First off, quoting someone to berate them for something they didn't say makes you look rather foolish, and secondly this kind of thread is exactly what people need to see. If you had taken the time to check out just one of the names the OP posted up you might see his point. Being a mission runner for over 5 years I can tell you that the standings those characters have could only be possible by running 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. That provides two possible explanations, one that its a bot or two that its account sharing. Either way I say ban them.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.12 12:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Bumblefck Well, for all of your blustering, table formatting and fancy fonts, you haven't actually proved that these characters that you listed are bots. Only CCP can do that. Find some new windmills to tilt at. Only a bot user will defend possible bots to try to avoid being discovered or keep the word that theres no such thing as bots and hacking in online games. If you see someone trying to defend a possible bot user,you know hes using a bot and its scared to be found so he must use any way necessary to try to prove theres no such thing and come up with most stupid arguments to prove that bots don't exist so nothing must be done and his botting will keep going. Everyone that doesn't bot doesn't wnt to know if its a bot or not. If its suspicious enough to hell with them. Yea hacking and botting came to a point its destroying games. Either theres a HARSH law like your guilty for suspicious methods unless proven otherwise or nothing will be done. Yes time to cut some subscriptions in your pocket to save many more in the future CCP. When players are annoyed they come to forums to vent. When they give up hope, they just quit the game forever.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:03:00 - [43] Don't forget most bots are likely paying for their subscriptions with the isk they botted, so really it's very little to no financial loss for CCP. Number of subscriptions may drop, but quality will improve dramatically.
Tyburn Stannis Caldari Xenon Salvage Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:11:00 - [44] Edited by: Tyburn Stannis on 12/05/2011 13:14:08 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: Tyburn Stannis Originally by: Efraya Posting in a thread where people have spent time and effort to collect this information and present a decent case to CCP and there isn't a CCP response. Actually all it is a thread of allegations. I could repost the exact same text as the OP with random names inserted claiming it was based on observation and extrapolation, and it would not be proof of anything except the fact I can write a very convincing description. It's very simple; if you have suspicions, or believe you have proof of anything that breaks the EULA or the TOS, or if you want a "GM response plx" then you send a petition or you send an e-mail. CCP then investigate and gather information for themselves, and then take whatever action they deem appropriate for that individual case. They do not have to tell the person who reported it what that action is, and they certainly do not have to announce it publicly. Don't get me wrong, because bots, exploiters, macro's, hakcs - all ** me off no end. But this isn't the way to deal with it. First off, quoting someone to berate them for something they didn't say makes you look rather foolish, and secondly this kind of thread is exactly what people need to see. If you had taken the time to check out just one of the names the OP posted up you might see his point. Being a mission runner for over 5 years I can tell you that the standings those characters have could only be possible by running 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. That provides two possible explanations, one that its a bot or two that its account sharing. Either way I say ban them. Of course, calling someone foolish when you don't appear to have read their previous posts in the thread also makes you look... well... foolish. Contrary to your "opinion" I have checked out the names, I have done it in the game not just read a list. Yes, it looks pretty solid evidence so far but... the lynch-mob gathering round here expecting CCP to act within minutes solely** on the word of a self-confessed alt's post is getting pretty laughable, no matter how detailed and intricate their wall of text is. For the n-th time. Got a grievance? Send a petition. Help CCP do their job instead of crowing about how you're "doing it for them". If all you want is to genuinely help out, there's no need for the public attention seeking. A guide to how to spot a bot and what information to put in a report? Brilliant, make it a sticky. Tips on how to counter them or mess with their patterns? Fantastic, hit them in the wallet / put them in a pod. But a trumpet-fanfare of how awesome you are? Not in the slightest bit necessary. As an aside, I'd be interested see how quick some of the pitchfork brigade change their minds and start demanding proof and a fair hearing if they are ever accused of something similar... [edit for spellunking mistooks)
Cuircuir Moustache Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:27:00 - [45] At first I tried to catalog every bot I saw, but it's way too much work. I think I'll program a macro or something to do it automatically. No, wait...
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Tyburn Stannis Originally by: The Offerer Why am I doing this? Better question - why are you doing it publicly? If you have this sort of information the correct thing to do is petition or e-mail it, not make a thread on the forum. (Yes, I know you said there was a petition linking to this thread, but that's not what forums are for) There is no need to make it public, and in fact you've just made it more difficult for CCP by warning every single named "suspect" to change their alleged suspicious behaviour, all for the sake of self-publicity. Great idea, great hard work, terrible attention seeking. And you have the nerve to assume you're the only player doing this kind of investigation... just because you're the only one blowing your own trumpet. I think he posted this to get some respect for his time and effort which he deserves. I don't see anyone else doing all the work like he did,just complain all day "the bots are breaking eve!!11" So now this guy gets up and does something about it and that isn't right either. Good job op...give em hell
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:31:00 - [47] Wouldn't it be easier and faster to identify the non-botters? Seems that those are getting less and less. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Kwa Zulu Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:38:00 - [48] The Offerer, good job, keep doing this whatever ppl say Death to all botters
Sentinel 7	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Cuircuir Moustache At first I tried to catalog every bot I saw, but it's way too much work. I think I'll program a macro or something to do it automatically. No, wait... Ladles and jellyspoons, we have a winner
ivar R'dhak Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.12 13:42:00 - [50] Originally by: The Offerer This is just in: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509907 Quote: Client Modification or exploiting û First Offense û Permanent Ban People involved in the creation and distribution of bots or exploits û First Offense û Permanent Ban Players found to be botting: ò First offense û 14 day ban ò Second offense û 30 day ban ò Third offense û Permanent ban +1 for CCP Sreegs. Now we're talking. Indeed, though I wonder why are they making their own lives so hard doing the "Minsc"? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me trice, WATCH IT! Ban the fnckers on the 2nd time! Also, bravo OP! Support +1 To all making fun of OP, go gate camp in hell. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
The Offerer Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.12 14:17:00 - [51] Thank you for you comments and support so far. Yes, this is among other things about attention seeking - I'm seeking the attention of EVE community and CCP to take some time and deal with this problem, because CCP started to change the game without seeing the big picture. I mean what else can you expect when you see the latest QEN and CCP Grayscale's devblog showing that we have too much ISK coming in the economy, but when you log in you are surrounded by bots? The big part of those character listed are level 4 mission running bots. You all know how much level 4 missions are profitable - now imagine that you can do it 23.5/7 The next thing: I've never called for immediate action and have clearly said that GMs are encouraged to investigate mentioned characters, see the logs and track their behaviour prior to taking action. In the mean time, I encourage other players to find the bots themselves. Enough material is posted in this thread to see the patterns and spot a bot in local. I know that some players will enjoy the hunt in a very creative way. Another thread from another player, totally unrelated to my research have done the same thing only a few hours before me and focusing on mining bots. You can check it out here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509502. Finally, server side backend tools for bot detection needs to be developed or made more efficient. I'm honestly hoping to see the devblog about it soon.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.05.12 14:44:00 - [52] They should make bot hunting part of the game. Call them replicants or cyborgs or androids or just "awakened" drones that are trying to pass themselves off as capsuleers, and reward players for finding them with LP or ISK or something. I think the folks dedicated to finding these cheaters should be rewarded somehow.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.12 14:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Killer Gandry Wouldn't it be easier and faster to identify the non-botters? Seems that those are getting less and less. LOL That would actually work.
Richard Faze Pimpin' Ain't Easy	Posted - 2011.05.12 14:49:00 - [54] Holy crap, bots nowadays are so sophisticated that they can run lvl 4's?? I honestly thought that bots worked off a move-mouse-to-screen-coordinates, rinse & repeat type of thing, only usable for mining & belt ratting.
Llyandrian Amarr Livestock Science Exchange	Posted - 2011.05.12 15:35:00 - [55] Great work, good thread. You know you are hitting the bullseye when you cause so many butt-hurting responses.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.05.12 16:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Richard Faze Holy crap, bots nowadays are so sophisticated that they can run lvl 4's?? I honestly thought that bots worked off a move-mouse-to-screen-coordinates, rinse & repeat type of thing, only usable for mining & belt ratting. A bot can drive a rover on Mars. Google has bots driving cars in traffic. A bot is world chess champion, and another is world Jeopardy champion. Online poker, a PvP game, has bots. Yes, they can do L4 missions. In the CCP Answers thread, they posted that in the last month they have banned 3000 bots and RMT accounts. Lets see what that means. Say that work of issuing the actual bans (as opposed to setting up the back end investigation tools, reverse engineering the bot programs, etc) is being done by 3 people doing normal 8 hour work days. For each ban they got to look at the report, review the logs, do checks to insure its not a no-life person with OCD, then issue the ban. And do this all once every 12 minutes, for 8 hours straight, day after day.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.12 16:29:00 - [57] From the "we'll answer all your questions thread" How many accounts have been banned in the past month for RMT/botting? by Vilgan Mazran Well over 3000 full accounts have been banned in the past month for botting or some sort of RMT affiliation (sans ISK spamming). If we include banned trial accounts and accounts banned for advertising RMT sites, we're almost at 5000 accounts. Information on future projections cannot be given. I was happy to get some numbers. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Khadann Caldari Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Bumblefck Well, for all of your blustering, table formatting and fancy fonts, you haven't actually proved that these characters that you listed are bots. Only CCP can do that. Find some new windmills to tilt at. Nice way to ask us to add you on that list ;) Anyway, nice work the offerer :) Hya!
Cpt Arareb Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.05.12 19:08:00 - [59] to everyone that uses BOTS BOTS NEED ALL TO DIE! I dont care if u cant have big fleet battles every 3 days I dont care if the prices go up and everyone will just fly frigates because cruisers will start worth billions I dont care if u need to actualy spend ur time "working" so u can have ur faction BS I dont care if u rage quit Eve cause u cant run ur Bots and I dont care u dont like what I said and I dont care about ur opinion. See you in the darks
Caius LiviusCerso Caldari StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.12 19:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Efraya Posting in a thread where people have spent time and effort to collect this information and present a decent case to CCP and there isn't a CCP response. CCP Guard, community manager, would you like to comment? delivery...

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