Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Taranius De Consolville
Lost Dawn Chaos Corrosive.
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 09:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:ISD BiscuitThief wrote:Have cleaned troll, bait, off topic and otherwise derailing posts from the thread.
I may have missed some, I'm new, so please report where needed. You haven't cleaned the OP, because it's a troll too. I'll silently say "I told you so" when you lock the thread.
No, u just like most of the eve population are to stupid to even understand what this post is about
Plex - Brought with RL Money
Player buys plex from market
ISK does not leave game
I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market.
Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses
Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
|
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 10:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:Solstice Project wrote:ISD BiscuitThief wrote:Have cleaned troll, bait, off topic and otherwise derailing posts from the thread.
I may have missed some, I'm new, so please report where needed. You haven't cleaned the OP, because it's a troll too. I'll silently say "I told you so" when you lock the thread. No, u just like most of the eve population are to stupid to even understand what this post is about Plex - Brought with RL Money Player buys plex from market ISK does not leave game I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market. Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
You started the opening post by say
Taranius De Consolville wrote:I believe that a massive ISK inflation is the PLEX.
Which is clearly wrong, PLEX do not create isk inflation they simply move isk around. No isk is being added and non removed although in the case of the removed part it's not quite true as you have to pay the market charges when selling the PLEX. |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
720
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 10:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:Solstice Project wrote:ISD BiscuitThief wrote:Have cleaned troll, bait, off topic and otherwise derailing posts from the thread.
I may have missed some, I'm new, so please report where needed. You haven't cleaned the OP, because it's a troll too. I'll silently say "I told you so" when you lock the thread. No, u just like most of the eve population are to stupid to even understand what this post is about Plex - Brought with RL Money Player buys plex from market ISK does not leave game I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market. Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
You're,
If you want to discuss isk sinks then talk don't bring PLEX into it. You're too damn stupid to make a coherent post. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
680
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 10:12:00 -
[64] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:Hi
a player in my corp who left recently had 42 billion ISK as he brought two plexes a week non stop since he started playing, he has ships and fits i could only dream of having.
Yes, but does he actually know how to fly them?
In EVE you can have the best gear there is, one mistake, one miscalculation, one guy you didn't notice in local and your fancy gear is pixel dust, and its gone forever. :P Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
|
CCP Xhagen
C C P C C P Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 10:45:00 -
[65] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote: No, u just like most of the eve population are to stupid to even understand what this post is about
Plex - Brought with RL Money
Player buys plex from market
ISK does not leave game
I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market.
Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses
Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
You are partially right, i.e. PLEX CAN affect the inflation of the ISK but not in the manner you suggest, i.e. not removing ISK from the economy, but more by monetary velocity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
You can get more information about the Inflation of ISK (for 2011 at least) here http://youtu.be/7MZD6-vGQms?t=23m14s CCP Xhagen | Senior Researcher CSM Project Manager
|
|
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
126
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 10:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Methesda wrote:Doddy wrote:So the player buys a plex for isk and the isk disappears, ccp is giving away free game time......
Thats a good business plan. It's a very good business plan. If even some of the players that use Plex to fun their accounts simply stop playing the Eve economy would shrink. Also, I'm not sure why you think that CCP are giving away 'free' time. They don't. Plexes are not free. Now I don't pretend to be an expert, but people who want to make statements about the state of the Eve Economy need to realise that there are full time, professional economists working for CCP, before making brash, unresearched, baseless arguments based on impulsive and incomplete understanding of the problem.
How are plex not free if ccp is selling them to players for isk without another player paying for the game time? Did you even read the op?
|
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Executive Outcomes
220
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Xhagen wrote:Taranius De Consolville wrote: No, u just like most of the eve population are to stupid to even understand what this post is about
Plex - Brought with RL Money
Player buys plex from market
ISK does not leave game
I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market.
Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses
Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
You are partially right, i.e. PLEX CAN affect the inflation of the ISK but not in the manner you suggest, i.e. not removing ISK from the economy, but more by monetary velocity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_moneyYou can get more information about the Inflation of ISK (for 2011 at least) here http://youtu.be/7MZD6-vGQms?t=23m14s
And thats the end of that.
PLEASE lock this thread now so the silly op can lick his wounds - Nulla Curas |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4527
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Think about what happens with the PLEX transaction. The originating player buys a GTC from CCP or some other retailer and redeems it into 2 PLEX. At this point CCP count their product obligation as fulfilled; the player has receive what he has paid for, regardless of what happens to it in the future. So far, this is pretty much identical to any other MT: gief publisher monies = can haz in-game itemz. But what can you actually do with your PLEX?
Well first you can add it on to your own account, which enables you to play the game for another 30 days. Of course this isn't really a MT in any way that people care about, just a slightly roundabout way to pay a subscription, but I presume we can agree that this promotes gameplay, insofar as it means that the original purchaser will play EVE for +30 days.
Secondly, you can sell it to another player for ISK. This is where it gets interesting, and where it starts to look like RMT and so forth. The most important difference is that the ISK exchange is between two players, not between a player and CCP. This sounds too obvious and trivial to be worth mentioning, but so many people don't seem to understand how important this subtle difference is. Player A sells a PLEX to player B for 500M ISK. (In and of itself, this is a player interaction just like any other market trade, BTW) The amount of ISK ingame stays the same. The ISK that player A receives, he receives apparently without doing any work for it, but the important thing is that work was done for that ISK. So player B had to do missions, convert LP, play the Jita market, risk his ship ratting, run a research POS and sell BPCs or do whatever other activity he engaged in to raise that 500M ISK. If Player A wasn't lazy or time-restricted or whatever other reason he'd rather pay $17.50 than make 500M for himself, he would have done all those activities. As it is, Player B did it on his behalf, but those activities still had to take place, with all the normal implications for wider interaction with the EVE economy and community.
To the rest of EVE there is no functional difference between player A selling a PLEX to player B, and player A using his ISK making alt A2 to make 500M.
Additionally, the value received is determined directly by player supply and demand. The amount of ISK you can get for your $17.50 is always dynamically set to exactly what the EVE playerbase as a whole thinks it should be. If CCP sold ISK directly, they'd pick a value (and you can bet your ass it would be hilariously wrong) and stick to it .
Conversely, if Player A was simply able to buy ISK directly from CCP then all that activity would not take place. In addition, it is quite possible that Player B simply wouldn't be playing, as for many people, being able to play for free is all that keeps them subscribed. Even if they kept their mains going, the number of "ISK making alts" would plummet, as the Player B's partly have them to pay for PLEX. So Player C cant buy his faction ammo from B, sell his stuff at Jita to B, gank B's ratting Drake or do whatever other interaction might take place, or at least has less opportunity to do so. Player interaction is reduced, player population is reduced, gameplay is reduced.
Additionally, because the amount of ISK you can buy is limited by the amount of ISK that other players are willing to spend on PLEX, there's a hard cap on how much ISK you can buy this way. It's a pretty high cap, but it's there. If CCP sold ISK directly, they'd sell it at the rate which maximised the amount of money people give them, which obviously means that they'd have every incentive to sell it for ever cheaper prices, since they can spawn as much as they want for free. Hello galloping inflation! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Methesda wrote:Doddy wrote:So the player buys a plex for isk and the isk disappears, ccp is giving away free game time......
Thats a good business plan. It's a very good business plan. If even some of the players that use Plex to fun their accounts simply stop playing the Eve economy would shrink. Also, I'm not sure why you think that CCP are giving away 'free' time. They don't. Plexes are not free. Now I don't pretend to be an expert, but people who want to make statements about the state of the Eve Economy need to realise that there are full time, professional economists working for CCP, before making brash, unresearched, baseless arguments based on impulsive and incomplete understanding of the problem. How are plex not free if ccp is selling them to players for isk without another player paying for the game time? Did you even read the op?
PLEX are not free. The person buying the PLEX from CCP pays with real money (PLEX prices are set higher than subs). So the PLEX (sub if used that way) has already been paid for.
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
616
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
Discuss, and actually think about the ramifications of this before u troll the crap out of it
Taranius
No - you!
Learn 2 economy.
Also, CCP is in the position of being able to "print" PLEX, ISK and game time independently of each other. Therefore they can easily fine-tune the EVE economy. How do you know you are buying that PLEX from another player and not from a CCP market-bot? How do you know you are selling that PLEX to another player and not a CCP market-bot? You don't.
However another interesting point is that CCP announces PLEX "sales" when ISK prices for PLEX are high. Since it's very human to buy things when the price is high instead of when it is low (which is exactly how markets work and why bubbles happen), CCP is really cashing in on that human behavior, converting ISK into real money for them every time the PLEX price spikes. |
|
Sakura Kasenumi
Last Exit For The Lost Dark Therapy
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
Plex work really well actually. If you have lots of money irl but dont want to pve, you buy plex and sell them. If you have not so much irl money or dont want to be spending what you do have on a video game, you pve, make isk and buy plex to play. There isnt really a loser in the plex system. Some whiners sure, but no losers. |
Alice Saki
4558
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 11:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
....Again really?
fine you must love this.
OP is an Idiot. Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
2168
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 12:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
Moved from EVE General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
|
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
202
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 13:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:Hi
I believe that a massive ISK inflation is the PLEX. I believe that the only way to fix the market and remove ISK from the game is to remove plexes as a brought item. This will slowly drain ISK out of the game forcing players to make money and seek more valuable space.
It is quite clear that if you have *lots* of money IRL you can get ahead by purchasing shiny ships, funding massive alliances, this should not be allowed to continue.
Plex should be an ITEM brought in game from CCP directly through the char sheet and the ISK should disappear from game. Not be pumped back back into it.
At this point the rich benefit, the poor do not, a player in my corp who left recently had 42 billion ISK as he brought two plexes a week non stop since he started playing, he has ships and fits i could only dream of having.
Plex needs to be removed as a micro transaction from this game and the ISK when a plex is brought thru your char sheet should go to a CCP IN-GAME BANK and should disappear.
Discuss, and actually think about the ramifications of this before u troll the crap out of it
Taranius
Sounds like some very important changes are coming, indeed, PLEX are probably the most OP item in the game, odly enough AUR is not powerful enough. |
Ghanna Whynn
Skadi Imperium Kill It With Fire
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Doddy wrote:Methesda wrote:Doddy wrote:So the player buys a plex for isk and the isk disappears, ccp is giving away free game time......
Thats a good business plan. It's a very good business plan. If even some of the players that use Plex to fun their accounts simply stop playing the Eve economy would shrink. Also, I'm not sure why you think that CCP are giving away 'free' time. They don't. Plexes are not free. Now I don't pretend to be an expert, but people who want to make statements about the state of the Eve Economy need to realise that there are full time, professional economists working for CCP, before making brash, unresearched, baseless arguments based on impulsive and incomplete understanding of the problem. How are plex not free if ccp is selling them to players for isk without another player paying for the game time? Did you even read the op? PLEX are not free. The person buying the PLEX from CCP pays with real money (PLEX prices are set higher than subs). So the PLEX (sub if used that way) has already been paid for. You missed what OP was asking for. OP was suggesting that CCP should sell PLEX for isk instead of players buying PLEX for money to then sell. If CCP sold PLEX for isk, then no one would be able to pay money for PLEX to then sell for isk, as CCP would betthe only PLEX for isk source. Hence any PLEX bought for isk would not have cost any "real" money. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
357
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:20:00 -
[76] - Quote
This will remove ccps ability to steath manipulate their income so what you want will never happen...
Yes again: items on market can be adjusted by moderater / dev tools.. they say it never happands but who knows if you can create any pixel related (corp history ect). Basicly ccp creates rl money with this game if they would like too. you are asking if they would take that option away.... its never going to happen, hilmar sais no CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
71
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Items in general should be removed from the game because they all "create" isk.
I love this new definition of "create". |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
202
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Barakach wrote:Items in general should be removed from the game because they all "create" isk.
I love this new definition of "create".
Iv met my match, this guy is a leet sniper with no scope, XXX |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
866
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 22:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Xhagen wrote:Taranius De Consolville wrote: Edit: snipped personal attack. ISD Suvetar
Plex - Brought with RL Money
Player buys plex from market
ISK does not leave game
I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market.
Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses
Typical eve elitist bull crap :)
You are partially right, i.e. PLEX CAN affect the inflation of the ISK but not in the manner you suggest, i.e. not removing ISK from the economy, but more by monetary velocity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_moneyYou can get more information about the Inflation of ISK (for 2011 at least) here http://youtu.be/7MZD6-vGQms?t=23m14s
/me in David Atenborough's voice:
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a Hadouken The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 19:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Taranius De Consolville wrote:Solstice Project wrote:ISD BiscuitThief wrote:Have cleaned troll, bait, off topic and otherwise derailing posts from the thread.
I may have missed some, I'm new, so please report where needed. You haven't cleaned the OP, because it's a troll too. I'll silently say "I told you so" when you lock the thread. Edit: snipped personal attack. ISD SuvetarPlex - Brought with RL Money Player buys plex from market ISK does not leave game I.e not enuff sinks in the game, leads to inflation, standard market 101 irl as is eve market. Unfortunately your to damn stupid to understand what i was saying because you are to busy trying to be a smart ass and troll this thread like the last two pages of responses Typical eve elitist bull crap :) You started the opening post by say Taranius De Consolville wrote:I believe that a massive ISK inflation is the PLEX. Which is clearly wrong, PLEX do not create isk inflation they simply move isk around. No isk is being added and non removed although in the case of the removed part it's not quite true as you have to pay the market charges when selling the PLEX.
Thread should end with this. One more time - and follow along - The buying and selling of PLEX does not create ISK. |
|
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 20:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
Arya Greywolf wrote:Thread should end with this. One more time - and follow along - The buying and selling of PLEX does not create ISK. More generally: player-to-player transactions neither create (source) nor destroy (sink) ISK. ISK sources and sinks always involve an NPC entity on one side of the transaction and a player on the other side.
MDD
|
Aina Sasaki
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
409
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
Bad idea. There is nothing really wrong with PLEX as far as I am concerned. If you want to be space-rich you can either blow RL money on plex or just do it in-game the "normal" way. :) - Rei |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
234
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 05:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Wow ... this many people have fallen for the OP's trollpost. Got to give it 8/10 !
Brilliant |
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
46
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 06:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
There's not really much to say in response to the OP when his responses already indicate that if you disagree with him, you must be a "Typical elitist EVE troll"
Hiro Ceffoe wrote: I COULD play EVE next week and run missions, mine, do other money making things, so I have enough ISK to PVP come the weekend but whats the point when I can just buy a PLEX for, lets face it a low sum of real life money and then sell that for ISK to fund PVP, it's fine if all I wanted from my game was a PVP experience, but how long can that last really?
How many people do you think skip the making money sections of the game and jump straight to PLEX for ISK PVP? How many of them burn out after a few months? Do you think they will ever return? How long is that a sustainable business model?
I think you vastly overestimate the amount of people who consider participating in the EVE economy to be a fun endeavour. Look through most of the disucssion about PLEX in the forums - There'll inevitably be smug types who consider their RL time "too valuable to spend grinding for spacebucks". Force them to do that and they probably won't stick around for too long. On the other side most of the regular market people are perfectly happy to pay for multiple accounts with said spacebucks through market activities that don't necessarily involve mindless grinding. Accounts that they might want to pay for otherwise if they had to fund these multiple accounts with RL cash instead of being competent in - game.
Also, I believe you're thinking of PvP from the lens of "arena" PvP prevalent in many other MMOs, where PvP is done largely for its own sake instead of being a vital component in the never - ending cycle of empire building and busting in EVE. Yes, a good number of people find PvP fun for it's own sake, but I'd hazard a guess that a lot more find it fun because they're doing their part to grow their space empire and pull down those of their enemies. The ability to jump straight into the EVE "end game" isn't necessarily a bad thing for game longevity since the sandbox nature of the game means dynamic, multi - faceted "PvP with purpose" that doesn't necessarily need the "Challenge of progression" factor to keep it fresh and interesting. Null sec wars and politics are pretty much interesting on their own even without ever taking into account the economy funding their war machines, the logistics to and from other areas of space, etc. Of course, if you can appreciate all the factors involved then more power to you for getting the fullest enjoyment out of the game.
Personally, my opinion is that PLEX just introduces another market facilitating trade to give both sides what they want out of the game, and make more people happy with what EVE means for them. You could argue that it devalues the "difficulty" factor, and hence the quality of the game, but it's hardly going to result in less subscribed accounts for CCP when PLEX trade keeps a lot of players on both sides happy with their time in the game. A larger number of - shall we say - less than competent types who wouldn't survive otherwise if they couldn't pay for their ISK with RL cash, definitely. But not less subscribers. Whether that's a good tradeoff or not is another story.
|
Taranius De Consolville
Lost Dawn Chaos Corrosive.
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 07:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
oh for the love of god
stupid trolls
bad idea
i get it now
leave the damn thread alone |
Mixu Paatelainen
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 10:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
brought
Stopped reading
|
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
204
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 13:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Wow ... this many people have fallen for the OP's trollpost. Got to give it 8/10 !
Brilliant
No buddy, the credit goes out to the fact that he made the post here. |
Ghazu
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 14:42:00 -
[88] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:oh for the love of god
stupid trolls
bad idea
i get it now
leave the damn thread alone you should feel bad |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 01:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Cedo Nulli wrote:Wow ... this many people have fallen for the OP's trollpost. Got to give it 8/10 !
Brilliant No buddy, the credit goes out to the fact that he made the post here. Technically he didn't. Check out CCP Phantom's post
MDD |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |