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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Luminisa I think if that player had the ABILITY to do anything with his tengu besides follow nubs into nub complexes just to snatch that armor hardener (or whatever drops in nub complexes) worth a couple hundred thousand isk that person would probably be doing it.
See, this is your problem. You think that a 3/10 is a "nub complex". It's not.
3/10s are the source of A-type (Meta 13) small and lower-tier modules. These are not newbie pieces of equipment ù they're the top tier equipment for frigates and for low-fitting cost modules. Get a lucky drop and you're looking at far more than "a couple hundred thousand ISK". You're off by two or three orders of magnitudeà
So it should come as absolutely no surprise if people blow through these plexes in ships that will absolutely overwhelm any kind of opposition you might find in them ù it only makes sense to do so to earn the chance of getting those 150Mil ISK A-Type platings and reppers at the end. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
KWyz
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:25:00 -
[32]
You get used to the *******s of EVE online. They really are everywhere, camping the dock in Jita 4-4 as soon as the servers go up, camping jump gates in smartbomb-fitted carriers, can-flipping in belts right next to newbie systems, extracting tears all over the place.
I remember a former CSM member, a russian dude who literally spent hours and hours on end camping serpentis 1/10 DEDs looking for "goodfites". What surprised me was that even though his tactics and fits were pretty much flawless(Sentinel in high-sec), he mostly seeked to engage newer players.
That's just one example. The only way to play this game and enjoy it is knowing these people exist and having more fun than they do. Also, no smacktalking in local. I can also guarantee you that for every 5 or so a-holes there's one super nice person. Who knows, maybe that russian guy was like that when not camping.
For other people, I heard girls make some really nice replacements for EVE-o game time. Apparently, there's no such thing like having too much sex.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:11:00 -
[33]
Quote:
It's the players that make it PVP centric.
They also make it douche centric, EvE is the DvD (douche vs douche) game.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:56:00 -
[34]
To be honest the only thing i see wrong with it is strategic cruisers being able to enter 3/10s, surely thats a wind up on ccps part.
Anyway tengus are easy to suicide, if there is someone who regularly does this to you just pay someone to gank their shiney.
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colay Starwolf
Gallente Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:57:00 -
[35]
Edited by: colay Starwolf on 23/05/2011 23:57:47
Originally by: Luminetta
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Thaco Wraith Which is why missions can be scanned down right??
Yes.
Quote: Some people play MMO's because they like PVE with other people.
Then maybe EVE isn't the right MMO for them, seeing as how it's all about competition, player versus playerà
We disagree here. EVE is NOT... I repeat NOT a PVP game.
It is a sandbox, where anyone can do anything.
It's the players that make it PVP centric.
100%right make toon undock ship do what ever you want how you want = sandbox Solitude is impractical and yet society is fatal If it was purely a PVP CONCORD wouldn't give a rats behind anywhere, not just low/null-sec.
Look I prefer PVP, I like playing MMO's against other people. If I didn't I would play almost any other game. But the OP didn't even complain about the PVP aspect.. there was no fight, no battle, no situation where the spoils went to the winner.
There was a person who skipped to the end of an almost completed complex and grabbed the loot.
I call those thieves, and even in PVP games there isn't a need for it.
lol did i ever bork my post
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Wayson
Minmatar Sigma Affiliates
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:41:00 -
[36]
Highsec exploration is about speedrunning sites, not taking your time and enjoying the scenery. You don't own the site, it's free to all comers, and you should know that once you unlock the gate it stays unlocked for a period of time.
I know it sucks when someone shows up in a plex you're running, but that's life. It's happened to me before, it happens to me still, and I regularly do it to other people. Welcome to EVE, adapt or die.
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Dorn Val
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Posted - 2011.05.24 06:46:00 -
[37]
I'm tired of seeing 6 week old characters in Drakes running complexes. CCP should set a skill limit on the gates so low skilled players can't access them
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Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:03:00 -
[38]
Unfortunately, much like the real world, EVE is full of pricks that have presicely zero manners and don't give a damn about you or your well being.
So what you is you find a group of pricks, usually cunningly formed into corporations, talk your way into said corp then go around pricking on other people. --- There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:27:00 -
[39]
A shame to have access with a T3 to a static 3/10 in the first place.
Yes I used to run these years back, the reward was immense for high-sec and thus you have to be a tactician, a prick or both to succeed. Cheers, move on don't feed him tears.
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Sinti Vailatti
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.24 12:13:00 -
[40]
I don't care much for crying, but Lumi has a point. If you can fly a Tengu and all you can do to pass the time is grief a 3/10 site in high-sec, you lead a pretty lame EVE existance.
They have these things called wormholes and this other thing called null-sec. Even an inept griefer can make enough to buy a new tengu with a hour or so worth of ratting.
Just sayin...
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Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2011.05.24 12:41:00 -
[41]
Where exactly are you ratting?
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I'm 5particus
Minmatar REV0LTING
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Posted - 2011.05.24 14:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Forum Troll Trolling
I should not have to resort to suicide ganking macros that camp the noob plexes, and I should not have to suicide gank douchbags to leave me the **** alone
The bots now camping all the high-sec complexes are usually flying AF's which are pretty tough to suicide give the gate restrictions on ship size and numbers. They are operating risk free.
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I'm 5particus
Minmatar REV0LTING
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Posted - 2011.05.24 14:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tippia
So it should come as absolutely no surprise if people blow through these plexes in ships that will absolutely overwhelm any kind of opposition you might find in them
You've missed the point, bots are camping the final room 23/7.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.24 14:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: I'm 5particus You've missed the point, bots are camping the final room 23/7.
Not only was that point never made, but it was actually the exact opposite point of what the OP is claiming. He wants to make it easier for them to do thatà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:01:00 -
[45]
Quote: Oh and if you're in a TENGU watching a new player run a 3/10 in hi-sec just to follow to the last room, pop the base and run you're just a douche and your mom is probably embarrassed of you.
Hit the nail on the head for sure. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:49:00 -
[46]
RIP Common Courtesy Born - May 6 2003 Died - May 7 2003
Your time was too short... now **** off!
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Thaco Wraith
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Posted - 2011.05.24 22:09:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Thaco Wraith on 24/05/2011 22:11:47
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: I'm 5particus You've missed the point, bots are camping the final room 23/7.
Not only was that point never made, but it was actually the exact opposite point of what the OP is claiming. He wants to make it easier for them to do thatà
Actually I talked to the OP in game for a while. You should know this was not a static complex. Apparently our new player is a bit of an explorer and was scanning down cosmic signatures. This was a combat signature (sounds from the description the Serpentis drugstore).
I'm not sure those are camped like the static complexes are (but couldn't tell you for sure), and I give serious doubt that there is a bot complex enough to scan this down and still be simple enough to avoid detection.
I'm actually impressed and despite what I've read here think this is the EXACT type of person that needs to be playing eve. A little under six months, is a self sufficient mission runner and explorer and is looking for a group to get to 0.0 with.
Wayson - WHOA there tiger.. slow down that drama truck.. Adapt or DIE?? really? You do know this is a video game right? No one has to die.. And FYI I understand people did to you the same as was done to the OP, but you know that if you didn't stoop to their level and do it to others... only half as many people would be doing it right?
I give the OP props for being the better than average new player, learning quick, and not begging for handouts or free info.
I also think that locking some of the better acceleration gates to the lower level complexes would actually help newer players more than hurt the rest of the game...
If we did it only to the acceleration gates in hi-sec I bet the newbs would even promise not to gank Tippia and escape to their super secret safe spot!!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.24 22:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Thaco Wraith I also think that locking some of the better acceleration gates to the lower level complexes would actually help newer players more than hurt the rest of the game...
They are locked. Each level has a maximum hull size that is let through.
1/10 Frigate 2/10 Destroyer 3/10 Cruiser 4/10 Battlecruiser 5+/10 Battleship
Perhaps those maximums could be lowered considering how much more efficient ships can be made these days, but that would only mean the OP would have seen a Sabre blast past him rather than a Tengu. As for locking them so there's no competition, no. That would (surprise) lock them from competition, and that's not a lesson new players should learn.
Quote: If we did it only to the acceleration gates in hi-sec I bet the newbs would even promise not to gank Tippia and escape to their super secret safe spot!!
That would be a horrible promise for them to make, so let's not do that. Also, making special rules for some content just because it happens to appear in highsec is another false lesson new players should not be fooled into learning.
Yes, if he OP is as precocious as you describe, then he'll do well in EVE. That doesn't mean he can (or should) skip the lesson being taught here: that others will try to beat you to "your" stuff and that it isn't actually your stuff until it sits in your cargo hold (the follow-up lesson, that they'll still try to beat you to that stuff even after that point, is part of the next course). |
Thaco Wraith
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Posted - 2011.05.24 23:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Thaco Wraith I also think that locking some of the better acceleration gates to the lower level complexes would actually help newer players more than hurt the rest of the game...
They are locked. Each level has a maximum hull size that is let through.
1/10 Frigate 2/10 Destroyer 3/10 Cruiser 4/10 Battlecruiser 5+/10 Battleship
Perhaps those maximums could be lowered considering how much more efficient ships can be made these days, but that would only mean the OP would have seen a Sabre blast past him rather than a Tengu. As for locking them so there's no competition, no. That would (surprise) lock them from competition, and that's not a lesson new players should learn.
Quote: If we did it only to the acceleration gates in hi-sec I bet the newbs would even promise not to gank Tippia and escape to their super secret safe spot!!
That would be a horrible promise for them to make, so let's not do that. Also, making special rules for some content just because it happens to appear in highsec is another false lesson new players should not be fooled into learning.
Yes, if he OP is as precocious as you describe, then he'll do well in EVE. That doesn't mean he can (or should) skip the lesson being taught here: that others will try to beat you to "your" stuff and that it isn't actually your stuff until it sits in your cargo hold (the follow-up lesson, that they'll still try to beat you to that stuff even after that point, is part of the next course).
The lesson was learned. I do agree with him though.. If more people acted like human beings, there wouldn't be a need.
Anyone not bother calling the police and just write off their car because it was stolen off the street out in front of a store?? I mean it's not like it was safely locked inside your garage or anything.
I believe the intent of the post was that he believed that if more players showed the same civilized human respect in the game that is considered civilized behavior out of the game, there wouldn't be a SEVERE loss of fun to the game. I tend to agree with him, obviously we're in the minority.
In fact to regard your second lesson.... a good majority of the "pirates" I've talked to in low sec are actually quite civilized. Most of them pirate as a way to test their skill and yours, and blowing up your ship is never personal. Even the loot they take with them is just a way they keep score.
Of course low sec pirates are different than hi-sec suicide gankers IMO.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.24 23:17:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Thaco Wraith If more people acted like human beings, there wouldn't be a need.
Oh I don't knowà Man is a pretty competitive critter.
Quote: I believe the intent of the post was that he believed that if more players showed the same civilized human respect in the game that is considered civilized behavior out of the game, there wouldn't be a SEVERE loss of fun to the game. I tend to agree with him, obviously we're in the minority.
Yes. Largely because EVE isn't that game. The whole game revolves around ù indeed, requires ù fierce competition over resources. It's been purposefully designed that way. Expecting to be protected from this competition and to be able to "claim" stuff beforehand isà wellà let's call it nanve. It's just not compatible with the core idea of the game.
As for a loss of fun, sure, it would increase the fun of some explorers at the cost of some others, but the whole "going against the core design of the game" is where the real problem lies. It's that core design that is the fun (for the players who like EVE) and chipping away at that does indeed damage that quintessential fun:ness. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.24 23:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti They have these things called wormholes and this other thing called null-sec. Even an inept griefer can make enough to buy a new tengu with a hour or so worth of ratting.
Where the hell are you ratting that you're making 500mil+ an hour?
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.05.25 00:05:00 -
[52]
I am so hot for Tippia right about now.
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Dorn Val
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Posted - 2011.05.25 07:02:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tippia ...The whole game revolves around ù indeed, requires ù fierce competition over resources. It's been purposefully designed that way. Expecting to be protected from this competition and to be able to "claim" stuff beforehand isà wellà let's call it nanve. It's just not compatible with the core idea of the game.
This. A lot of peeps say "Eve is just a game" but for a game it mirrors real life pretty well...
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.25 12:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Thaco Wraith The fact you can make your ship to hard to scan by even the most determined probes, that mission sites and wrecks are impossible to probe, and the fact that hi-sec exists at all shows that the designers understand not everyone wants PVP.
Rumour has it that unprobeable T3s will be nerfed sometime soon.
As for the understanding that not everyone wants PvP, you'll remember that hisec (and CONCORDs presence to enforce it) came into the game at some point after enough players had complained about being ganked in their rookie ships by older players flying solopwnmobiles (in those days, battleships).
Quote: What happened to the OP was NOT PVP. It was simply a player taking a shortcut because he/she knew that by doing so he/she would be protected more than the runner of the complex.
It very much is PvP, unless you're going to suggest that the 100m sprint is not a competitive event. Perhaps all the athletes should display some "honour" and slow down to ensure they all cross the line at the same time?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Decon Ko
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Thaco Wraith
Anyone not bother calling the police and just write off their car because it was stolen off the street out in front of a store?? I mean it's not like it was safely locked inside your garage or anything.
See, that's a huge fallacy: The car was yours, you have a legal document explicitly declaring so. The loot on the other hand isn't. There is no database value, no event, nothing you are holding and no state on the item (loot) that defines it as yours, until it's in your cargo, at which point the database (the only authority in the game world really) defines it as yours. If you get blown up and that person takes the item from your wreck, he has stolen from you, and that is reflected in the aggression that person receives, and the fact that you and your friends can shoot at them without reprecutions.
All in all, I believe the only relevant analogy is this: There is treasure (loot) on an island (in a plex). Two adveturers go after the treasure. One gets there first by sneaking past the other. The treasure is his.
Now, I'm not saying this is ideal for everyone, but then again, EVE online is not the ideal game for everyone. I personally don't like that kind of "lame" behavior, and for that reason I don't perform it, but I'ld never complain about people playing the game the way they want to. If it bothers me that much, well, I can always go play something else, there's ****loads of MMOs where such behavior is not possible / sanctioned by game rules. If that's what you want, you are absolutely free to pursuit it.
EVE is what it is, it does change, evolve, and possibly get dumbed down over time, but the day when the sandbox suddenly gets fences, doors, corridors and walls is the day the CORE concept behind EVE dies, and I'll be very sad to leave it for another sandbox. I still won't whine though. It is a product/service that belongs to CCP, they define it, and I have a choice to buy/use it or not.
P.S. Sorry for any possible typos, English is not my native language.
P.S. 2: Yeah, tbh, adapt or die! and don't take things overly literally.
--
This: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248088 |
DHuncan
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Posted - 2011.05.26 07:23:00 -
[56]
[quote=Thaco Wraith I believe the intent of the post was that he believed that if more players showed the same civilized human respect in the game that is considered civilized behavior out of the game, there wouldn't be a SEVERE loss of fun to the game. I tend to agree with him, obviously we're in the minority.
You made there a good point Thaco. The question is not that 'it is allowed in game' as much as 'what kind of person are you?' I mean 'extacting tears?' What kind of satisfaction you guys find in that. You brag of that lack of human respect?
I understand the point of competition, the exclusivity of the rewards only for the smarter, the faster and the stronger who along the years developed strategies and technologies that rule over the rest. I understand the role of a pirate. But I have seen to many damaging people in this game that I really can only wonder who are you irl. If out of this inmense sand box you find the fun only in breacking other peoples illusions, then you are worth of pity. I am really curious. I'd really like to see those irl, how you look, what you do, whats your age, where and how do you live. Why you are so twisted.
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Alvia Div
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Posted - 2011.05.26 08:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: DHuncan
I understand the point of competition, the exclusivity of the rewards only for the smarter, the faster and the stronger who along the years developed strategies and technologies that rule over the rest. I understand the role of a pirate. But I have seen to many damaging people in this game that I really can only wonder who are you irl. If out of this inmense sand box you find the fun only in breacking other peoples illusions, then you are worth of pity. I am really curious. I'd really like to see those irl, how you look, what you do, whats your age, where and how do you live. Why you are so twisted.
I think it'll be the same as picking a random demographic off EVE. I think the only thing you'll find in common is nerdness and >= average IQ, everything else will be random.
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Riedle
Minmatar Paradox Collective
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Posted - 2011.05.26 17:16:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Riedle on 26/05/2011 17:17:27
Quote: You made there a good point Thaco. The question is not that 'it is allowed in game' as much as 'what kind of person are you?' I mean 'extacting tears?' What kind of satisfaction you guys find in that. You brag of that lack of human respect?
I understand the point of competition, the exclusivity of the rewards only for the smarter, the faster and the stronger who along the years developed strategies and technologies that rule over the rest. I understand the role of a pirate. But I have seen to many damaging people in this game that I really can only wonder who are you irl. If out of this inmense sand box you find the fun only in breacking other peoples illusions, then you are worth of pity. I am really curious. I'd really like to see those irl, how you look, what you do, whats your age, where and how do you live. Why you are so twisted.
I'm Jeffrey Dahmer cause I blew up yer ship and took your loot. Sometimes I like to wear skirts.
Far more interesting than looking into the mindset of the person that bettered your spaceship in a pvp spaceship game would be to look into the greedy mind of a person that thinks by virtue of their presence that they own all the visible surroundings.
Such a sense of entitlement!
Mama never had the guts to tell you 'No' or something?
;)
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DHuncan
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Posted - 2011.05.26 21:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Riedle Edited by: Riedle on 26/05/2011 17:17:27
Quote: You made there a good point Thaco. The question is not that 'it is allowed in game' as much as 'what kind of person are you?' I mean 'extacting tears?' What kind of satisfaction you guys find in that. You brag of that lack of human respect?
I understand the point of competition, the exclusivity of the rewards only for the smarter, the faster and the stronger who along the years developed strategies and technologies that rule over the rest. I understand the role of a pirate. But I have seen to many damaging people in this game that I really can only wonder who are you irl. If out of this inmense sand box you find the fun only in breacking other peoples illusions, then you are worth of pity. I am really curious. I'd really like to see those irl, how you look, what you do, whats your age, where and how do you live. Why you are so twisted.
Far more interesting than looking into the mindset of the person that bettered your spaceship in a pvp spaceship game would be to look into the greedy mind of a person that thinks by virtue of their presence that they own all the visible surroundings.
Thats a good one. I am not going too much into the rights of someone who arrives first to a spot. My ponder was about the miriade of what you guys call trolls. The rudeness that seem to be a pretty normal behaviour here in EvE and not so much, or not so evident irl. Aswell as the lack of honour in abusing the game ignorance of new player has to flip his can and ... gank? is that the word they use? Thats not competition, nor is the flames insults and low class comments against those who complain. I don't mean they cannot be contradicted in theyr complaints, but there are many forms way more elegant to deffend PvPing and the 'jungle point of view' about EVE. It is obvious many people feels this way and are disgusted of the worse face of EVE. No need to be a misseducated brat. Obviously not your case, Mr. Riedle.
Long life Minmatar.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.26 21:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DHuncan
Thats a good one. I am not going too much into the rights of someone who arrives first to a spot. My ponder was about the miriade of what you guys call trolls. The rudeness that seem to be a pretty normal behaviour here in EvE and not so much, or not so evident irl.
The problem with this mentality is that it assumes eve is to be taken seriously. It's a game, and arguably one whose goal is to **** over damn near everyone you meet, be it financially, by taking their space, by blowing them up etc. Eve may be a sandbox of an MMO, but it emphasizes using sneaky and underhanded tactics to achieve your goals, and because of that you're either going to end up becoming one of the so called trolls you hate so much, or you're going to quit, because eve is not the game for you and you will eventually lose something so valuable you won't want to play any more.
Originally by: DHuncan
Aswell as the lack of honour in abusing the game ignorance of new player has to flip his can and ... gank?
Can flipping newbs is not terribly satisfying, not many people do it more than a few times before getting bored. That said, there are people like that in every MMO, so I'm not exactly sure what you're complaining about here.
Originally by: DHuncan
Thats not competition, nor is the flames insults and low class comments against those who complain. I don't mean they cannot be contradicted in theyr complaints, but there are many forms way more elegant to deffend PvPing and the 'jungle point of view' about EVE. It is obvious many people feels this way and are disgusted of the worse face of EVE.
2 main problems here is that: 1)You seem to think eve is to be taken seriously, a problem I've found the vast majority of carebears have.
2)You seem to not understand that eve is, first and foremost, a game centered around the idea of ruining someone elses sand castle. If you don't like this aspect of the game, or you don't like people who USE this aspect of the game, then perhaps it's time you realized that you don't actually like eve. |
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