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Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.25 06:45:00 - [1] Before you say 'NO! NO ARENA PVP!' hear me out. My idea is to put a new structure called an 'Arena'. There should be one in each hisec factions area at minimum and preferably close to a trade hub (maybe a jump away). Since Incarna will be coming out (? maybe) this summer, I am sure it will be fixed and playable by Winters time. This would be a good structure to dock up in like any other station and watch 'the fights' or participate in them. This promotes ACTUALY 1 v 1's which are difficult to find elsewhere in EVE. Usually a 1 v 1 becomes a 1 v 1&friends. I enjoy my PVP. I enjoy going out in small gangs and making a single target (or more) cry in local. However, unless I go on Singularity I never find a 1 v 1 which is a different type of fight then any fleet engagements and wont always be fair (and usually isnt). To 'fight' you would have to either Register at the Registration Center or peruse the list of current challenges and choose one you'd like to participate in. Options should include, but not be limited to: -- Amount of Ships vs Ships: 1 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 3 or more. There should probably be a limit, but this is an example. -- Ship type: Be it frig fight, cruiser fight, bs fight, or whatever. You can even go further and restrict to t1, or a specific type of t2 (assault frig for instance). A check list would be best for this as there could be many options. Possibly an AF wouldnt mind fighting a cruiser and would allow Frigates and Cruisers with no tech specified. -- Race: Want to relive the Gallente vs Caldari? Or are you Gallente and dont want to fight minmatar all the time? Check box would allow you race class ships allowed or not allowed. Faction ships can be restricted to. Dont want all Dramiels putting our challenges. -- Podding: Will you allow podding? or are weapons locked after a hull booms? -- Arena size: Small, med, large? Actual ships would be hidden until fight occurs. This makes for people to not bring a ship that owns other ship. Ships must be supplied by the pilots, no 'test drives'. This should be a fun way to PVP without having to deal with failroams and blobs all the time. This shouldnt stymie PVP as a whole but give another outlet. As for spectating. I dont know if its possible. But would be nice if it could. Or if the 'lobby' could have a few cams showing current fights. Any ideas? Thoughts? Flames?
Culmen Caldari Vigrior The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2011.05.25 07:19:00 - [2] Mentioning WOW in a thread is never a good idea.... But the idea itself is pretty good. I always supported introducing a formal Duel system to EVE. By introducing I mean ADDING ON TOP OF. IE PVP in eve = existing non-consensual pvp + consensual PVP. A central hub for registration would be nice though. and further more why do i even need a sig?
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Vengeance Industrial Militia	Posted - 2011.05.25 07:23:00 - [3] She never mentioned WoW. ________ The little things
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.05.25 10:12:00 - [4] My problem with a fixed arena style play is it's decidedly not sandbox. If you want to duel someone set it up or drop a can. That said, you could always participate in the regular tourney sponsored by ccp if you want that structured non-sandbox feel.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.25 17:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Shieko Chan My problem with a fixed arena style play is it's decidedly not sandbox. If you want to duel someone set it up or drop a can. That said, you could always participate in the regular tourney sponsored by ccp if you want that structured non-sandbox feel. How so? Its an area people can gather for friendly competition. This occurs in real life too as my Civic Center offers amateur fights all the time, and in my youth I used to perform in them. Dropping a can doesnt result in 1 v 1. Due to them acting as bait for a corp to pile on, neutral reps, and such - structured fighting is difficult to get and can be a fun alternative to roaming for hours to find a fight when your just looking to pew real quick and log. I suppose this idea is aimed at people who have real lives and still like to play EVE. I work two jobs and I go to online school. Wrapped up in there I spend time with my wife and son and visit family on the weekends. My time is pretty limited and last night I went on a two hour roam to run away like a little girl when the scouting group and our leading blue group got hot dropped by several SCs and Titans. Im just asking for a place to go to for some instant action, where consenting pilots want to fight, where rules are played, and where 'signing up for CCP's tourny' doesnt cost billions and happen annually or semi annually.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.25 17:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Culmen Mentioning WOW in a thread is never a good idea.... But the idea itself is pretty good. I always supported introducing a formal Duel system to EVE. By introducing I mean ADDING ON TOP OF. IE PVP in eve = existing non-consensual pvp + consensual PVP. A central hub for registration would be nice though. I never mentioned WoW, or any other game for that matter. And my reasoning for arenas to be in one system per faction could be two way beneficial. It could bring pilots away from crowded systems, and it could open another trade hub if its sufficiently away from the areas trade system. Then (in gallente space) the trade would seem to be Jita -> Dodixie -> Arena system. Min would be Jita -> Rens -> Arena. Depending on popularity of course. THis could help introduce newer players to PVP as well and maybe get them to saddle up and come explorer lower security space. As CCP has said many times: ships blowing up = good business.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.29 17:29:00 - [7] So im guessing no1 is interested?
Oregin Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.05.30 02:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Tyme Xandr Before you say 'NO! NO ARENA PVP!' hear me out. My idea is to put a new structure called an 'Arena'. Much as I disagree with your idea, I love this opening. Speaking for myself, the fun in PVP comes from the excitement of not knowing and the constant danger, before, during and after fights: the fleet order to jump into the hostiles on the other side or the surge of adrenaline that kicks in when you're en route to make the tackle is what keeps me coming back to EVE. I actually wouldn't find the Arena style PVP fun. However, as that stands, it's no reason not to implement it. Yet I feel this would be of detriment to the genuine combat that goes on in EVE. I, as many do if you read the past Arena topics, like the fact that if you want combat PVP in EVE you MUST risk that other gangs will drop in, blobs will blob you etc etc. Even in highsec, I like that you can never be sure if a 1v1 based on a can take is actually going to be honoured. EVE needs this. If you offer safe and contained PVP then I think it would do a lot of damage to an already unstocked low-sec, for example. I think a lot of people who want to dabble in PVP will see this, try it, become tired of it and decide that EVE is not as much fun as it actually is. As a new player I went to lowsec and died horribly in flames, like most did. However, it was that first fight that got me hooked.
Mr Minnah Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.30 02:13:00 - [9] I support this idea. To all the people who say that that's not what pvp in EVE is about, well, that would be an option and doesn't mean in any way that the regular pvp in EVE would die. There are plenty of people that would enjoy both types of pvp and it could provide a nice entry level pvp to the noobs that don't get to enjoy it all that much.
Yanshee	Posted - 2011.05.30 02:37:00 - [10] Why, in this sandbox, should even-field PVP be handed to you? You don't need an arena to give you immediate access PVP. You have that already. Go to low-sec, go to nul-sec. What you want is PVP that doesn't require any thought or planning. As I said, PVP is there for you in low/nul-sec but if you want to win you have to be clever, you have to put in a fair amount of time to scout systems and understand who are likely allies, you have to judge players' abilities and commonly flown ships and you have to cross your fingers and hope that you can kill before his mates get to you or another fleet/gang comes through. You basically want to remove all of that required skill and water down PVP such that any lazy player can waltz in and do it. If you make it available then it becomes the standard form of PVP. You'll get tons of players who like to PVP but are too afraid of losing because they suck at all the prep detailed above who will never venture into low/nul-sec again. These are people who, yes, will lsoe ships at first, but would eventually learn how it's done. I don't just want swathes of noobs heading into low-sec and dying, I want them to come out, die, come back and learn, then spend time there. We need more players in low/nul-sec! 'Arenas' are a bad thing, not just for the pirates, who you'll say are just trying to kill noobs. What it'll do is change the whole character of EVE which is one of harsh unforgiving. Like it or not, that is the game and it's actually what most of us like about EVE and what sets it apart from the rest. TL:DR... It would not just be an 'option' it would have effects on both the character of the game and the number of people heading into low/nul-sec.

Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.30 05:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Yanshee Why, in this sandbox, should even-field PVP be handed to you? You don't need an arena to give you immediate access PVP. You have that already. Go to low-sec, go to nul-sec. What you want is PVP that doesn't require any thought or planning. As I said, PVP is there for you in low/nul-sec but if you want to win you have to be clever, you have to put in a fair amount of time to scout systems and understand who are likely allies, you have to judge players' abilities and commonly flown ships and you have to cross your fingers and hope that you can kill before his mates get to you or another fleet/gang comes through. You basically want to remove all of that required skill and water down PVP such that any lazy player can waltz in and do it. If you make it available then it becomes the standard form of PVP. You'll get tons of players who like to PVP but are too afraid of losing because they suck at all the prep detailed above who will never venture into low/nul-sec again. These are people who, yes, will lsoe ships at first, but would eventually learn how it's done. I don't just want swathes of noobs heading into low-sec and dying, I want them to come out, die, come back and learn, then spend time there. We need more players in low/nul-sec! 'Arenas' are a bad thing, not just for the pirates, who you'll say are just trying to kill noobs. What it'll do is change the whole character of EVE which is one of harsh unforgiving. Like it or not, that is the game and it's actually what most of us like about EVE and what sets it apart from the rest. TL:DR... It would not just be an 'option' it would have effects on both the character of the game and the number of people heading into low/nul-sec. I live in nullsec. Im aware of the fun and excitement of PVP. However, with that aside, I dont think an Arena would kill PVP in low/null due to: A) The fact that people like to roam and find fights in low/null B) The fact that this type of PVP is completely unlike random PVP out in low/null C) I dont think this would cause people to never go to low/null as there are reasons low/null are gone to in the first place ... and thats to make money. D) If anything, I would think it would shake some of the fear OFF of new players. They can learn their ship and go attempt some PVP elsewhere. What is the hardest part of getting a new/scared player to PVP? To trust their ship. To trust their friends. To trust their instincts. This would allow people to find that they have it inside of them. Or if they truly suck at PVP then they wont ever bother, but they probably never would have in the first place. No Arena will ever replace fluid unsecure space PVP. However, it would provide just one more facet of what PVP is.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.30 05:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Oregin Originally by: Tyme Xandr Before you say 'NO! NO ARENA PVP!' hear me out. My idea is to put a new structure called an 'Arena'. Much as I disagree with your idea, I love this opening. Im glad you found the funny hidden inside of it.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.30 05:55:00 - [13] I'm sorry to triple post in my own thread, but I wanted to add this, and not have it in a quoted response. The EVE universe already has a kind of arena PVP. On the Singularity server you can look and ask for 1 v 1s and such to have some quick PVP. I participate in this. I will sometimes log into sisi and get in a quick 1 v 1 or two before work - and this has not affected me on Tranquility. I still PVP on tranq and love it. By your definition this is game breaking. People can log into sisi and (for no real isk) fit ships and go PVP. So if this is happening, then why are real fights happening in Tranq? Shouldnt everyone be PVPing on sisi for free? Im being a bit extreme here, but its in response to the extreme notion of saying "Arena PVPing will make no one go to low/null anymore." I think adding an arena system for each faction (and even in low or null, although I dont think its really needed there) will be for people who want to get some quick pvp in, test fits, or whatever. Its another fun facet of EVE that players can enjoy in addition to their normal activities.
Tiberu Stundrif Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.30 06:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Shieko Chan My problem with a fixed arena style play is it's decidedly not sandbox. If you want to duel someone set it up or drop a can. That said, you could always participate in the regular tourney sponsored by ccp if you want that structured non-sandbox feel. You obviously have never fought against 1 person with neutral remote reps. I believe this is a great idea. If you have a beef with somebody and challenge them to a 1v1, this would allow you to do so without having to use stealing from cans, etc. I believe that friendly remote effects would be disabled while in this 1v1 mode. ---------------------------------------
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.30 06:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 30/05/2011 06:32:30 Originally by: Tiberu Stundrif Originally by: Shieko Chan My problem with a fixed arena style play is it's decidedly not sandbox. If you want to duel someone set it up or drop a can. That said, you could always participate in the regular tourney sponsored by ccp if you want that structured non-sandbox feel. You obviously have never fought against 1 person with neutral remote reps. I believe this is a great idea. If you have a beef with somebody and challenge them to a 1v1, this would allow you to do so without having to use stealing from cans, etc. I believe that friendly remote effects would be disabled while in this 1v1 mode. Yeah, youd only have whoever is involved in the conflict on your overview and people who are spectating (whether this would be indoor, or outdoor) wouldnt be able to lock participants or move into the arena area. - Also, referring to Shieko, EVE is supposed to be our 'Internet spaceship life'. In the real world we have UFC and Boxing. We have robot fighting as well. Why couldnt New Eden have this?
Gordon Colt	Posted - 2011.05.30 10:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Gordon Colt on 30/05/2011 10:47:29 Go my gosh! This Idea came up again! . I did say my opinion about it once and I am going to repeat it again: SUPPORTED!!! +1 10/10 I am voting for this with all my limbs and even my "manhood" up! In fact, I prefer at least 1 arena in each Empire located somewhere not so far from major trading hubs. Let say about 3-5 jumps from a hub. Why not in the same system, where those major hubs are? The answer is to avoid system overloads. On another hand, it should be close enough, because it would help for fast resupply
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.05.30 19:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Shieko Chan on 30/05/2011 19:38:57 Edited by: Shieko Chan on 30/05/2011 19:35:44 Quote: How so? Its an area people can gather for friendly competition. This occurs in real life too as my Civic Center offers amateur fights all the time, and in my youth I used to perform in them. Yes, and my question or augument (if you wish) is why do you need something called an "arena" to do this? There is already a mechanism in game to shoot at each other. Make rules and agree to stick to them and slug it out in fleet. No need for special addition to the sandbox game. Quote: Also, referring to Shieko, EVE is supposed to be our 'Internet spaceship life'. In the real world we have UFC and Boxing. We have robot fighting as well. Why couldnt New Eden have this? Hello, sandbox.. make an organization you call the UFC or WWC or what ever you like and promote events.. no one is stopping you or anyone else.. why must you wait for CCP to add more in game mechinism for this to happen? Just like the real world such an enterprise takes leadership and determination.. not at act or God or the government. Quote: You obviously have never fought against 1 person with neutral remote reps. so make rules and agree to follow them.. if someone doesn't disqualify him.. have referees and judges.. do what we do in the real world to solve problems ... am I the only one who gets the player driven sandbox concept here?
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.31 00:16:00 - [18] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 31/05/2011 00:18:06 Sheiko - the problem is that people dont adhere to the rules when they can have friends/buddies help them out. An arena would allow for dictated fights. I am not sure how your not understanding this. I dont have a real spaceship in real life. So I cannot go to my local town hall and request a spaceship battle weekend at my civic center. This would be a persistent thing in New Eden, not an event held by CCP. Is this still not making sense to you? Im not sure how to explain it in a way that you understand. This would be a structure, in the video game called EVE Online, where you can setup actual 1 v 1s (or #v#). Not steal from a can and go blinky to a corporation. Not go to lowsec and take sec hits. Not go to null and get blobed cause ur in someones space or run into a 15 man roam. This is an arena where you can go for a DIFFERENT type of PVP. Please re-read my initial post for more information.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.31 01:03:00 - [19] I think I figured out why Sheiko doesnt understand whats going on in this thread. So I am going to break it down barney style: - There will be a new dockable structure called an 'ARENA'. This dockable structure will be the same size as a STATION and will function similarly to a STATION. - Once docked inside the ARENA (a STATION) you will be able to go into your CAPTAINS QUARTERS (a new addition coming June 21 that allows you to walk around) and from your CAPTAINS QUARTERS door that leads to the interior section of the STATION (in this case, the ARENA) where you will go into a large lobby with REGISTRATION DESKS. - At a REGISTRATION DESK you can either CREATE or ACCEPT a CHALLENGE. - A CHALLENGE is a customizable agreement to fight. As outlined above you can determine what ship hulls and tech are allowed amongst many other options. You can customize how many ships will be on each teams as well. - Once a CHALLENGE is ACCEPTed the pilots will be put back into their ships and WARPED to a deadspace unwarpable area for the fight. - To further clarify the area you are sent to: It will be an area of the system you are in where only the ships involved in the fight can go to (via an automatic warp to ensure all participants participate upon accepting a CHALLENGE) and where you cannot warp out of or leave. - The OBJECTIVE is to PVP. When a competitor or team is destroyed - an acceleration gate is unlocked inside the battlefield for all participants to return to the ARENA. - The acceleration gate will automatically warp pilots back to the ARENA structure and dock them, returning them to the lobby. This will allow for smack talk amongst other things. This is as broken down as I can possibly make it. To further clarify I would say (or repeat): 1) This allows for real 1 v 1s or setup fights where its ships vs ships and no buddies can sway the battle. 2) THIS DOES NOT REPLACE EVE PVP. This is a completely different type of PVP, and while fun, it does not replace the same feeling as non arena and spontaneous PVP. Ill add more if I see its still beyond your grasp of understanding.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.31 01:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 31/05/2011 01:08:33 And Judging from your Killboard Sheiko, which doesnt exist, I am not sure you are really fit to discuss this situation. And forum PVP does not count, unfortunately.

Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:28:00 - [21] Quote: Sheiko - the problem is that people dont adhere to the rules when they can have friends/buddies help them out. An arena would allow for dictated fights. They do if they want to participate and win..as always a rule uninforced is just a suggestion.
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Tyme Xandr Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 31/05/2011 01:08:33 And Judging from your Killboard Sheiko, which doesnt exist, I am not sure you are really fit to discuss this situation. And forum PVP does not count, unfortunately. Don't try to make this about me. This is about your suggestion which I don't believe is a good one.
Brandoe Chung Gallente Phoenix Industries Saints Amongst Sinners	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:40:00 - [23] I like the idea. And no I don't think it would take away from regular PvP since it would be voluntary so if you don't want to do it don't. Just like incursions and FW. You could also introduce betting which could be utilized as an isk sink if CCP wanted too. If you lose the isk is gone if not you make some isk. Never quote me the odds
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:30:00 - [24] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 31/05/2011 23:35:57 Originally by: Shieko Chan Quote: Sheiko - the problem is that people dont adhere to the rules when they can have friends/buddies help them out. An arena would allow for dictated fights. They do if they want to participate and win..as always a rule uninforced is just a suggestion. What are you even saying? You have no idea whats even going on in this thread, do you? Originally by: Shieko Chan Originally by: Tyme Xandr Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 31/05/2011 01:08:33 And Judging from your Killboard Sheiko, which doesnt exist, I am not sure you are really fit to discuss this situation. And forum PVP does not count, unfortunately. Don't try to make this about me. This is about your suggestion which I don't believe is a good one. This is about you. its about you and your inability to understand where the want for this lies. Maybe if you got out of your veldspar field and checked it out you might understand. This isnt about making a corporation where hundreds if not thousands of people would join to do PVP tournaments. The need for this structure isnt so extreme that entire corporations could be made out of it, especially considering people have their own reasons and areas that they play EVE in for their own reasons. This is about logging into EVE Online and going to an arena for some event style PVP. Not me starting a PVP corp, as I barely have enough time to participate in this huge war going on in nullsec as it is let alone run a corporation. I appreciate that you have opinion, its just unfortunate that you have no idea what your talking about - or you lack the means to convey what you feel properly. If you continue to make uninformed posts in this thread I will just simply ignore them from now on. I have already explained the reason for this expansion of EVE Online's player vs player environment, I have explained the method of such an addition, and I have explained that what your saying either doesnt make sense or has nothing to do with what this topic is about.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Brandoe Chung I like the idea. And no I don't think it would take away from regular PvP since it would be voluntary so if you don't want to do it don't. Just like incursions and FW. Exactly, its an optional outlet for PVP. The wars for territory and resources will continue. The carebears will still mission. Miners will still stare at rocks all day. Production will continue making ships and modules. Gankers will still gank. Griefers will still hold corps hostage. Life will continue on EVE. Only now, when they have the itch to have a quick 1 v 1 or group vs group they can take a couple jumps over to their factions Arena and blow some **** up and have some fun for a bit with non traditional PVP.
Gnean Tyrova	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:22:00 - [26] +1 The major concern/aspect that would need to be included though would be a total loss of modules/salvage from destroyed ships. Essentially, this is strictly PvP for the sake of wanting to blow up one more ship. They could always include some for of mutual reward for winning ( such as: each player puts in 100k into a pot and if they win they get the whole pot ), but that would be purely optional. If anything, I believe it would help increase traffic into lowsec/nullsec as players would become more confident ( even over-confident ) in their PvP abilities.
Tyme Xandr Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:35:00 - [27] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 01/06/2011 00:37:51 Yeah, a system of betting could be incorporated. So long, as you said, it were optional, or even a last 'screen' kind of ordeal allowing for betting before your put into your ship and thrown into the arena, where the bet can always be turned down without the fight being stopped. I just wouldnt want a bunch of challenges being put up there requiring a bet. Originally by: Gnean Tyrova If anything, I believe it would help increase traffic into lowsec/nullsec as players would become more confident ( even over-confident ) in their PvP abilities. I agree. I find the biggest thing preventing a player from going into lowsec, or participating in a roam, is their lack of confidence in their skills and their ships. They look at their EFT and say 'Well I have a huge Exp hole in my armor ... IF I run into 'this' it will surely destroy me ... i should wait ...' This will get noobs to realize if they skill up in their Rifters and Punishers they can definitely have a role in small gang and fleet ops. And they can learn what and how their role performs all without worrying about screwing their buddies.
Agetec Core Sudden Buggery	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:56:00 - [28] Um... just a thought... Shieko seems to be trolling you, I wouldn't bother arguing further. I don't see anything good coming from it. They get it, might even like it - they just want to be immature and try and drive you nuts.
DetCord Saisio Caldari UnchainedPotential Hand That Feeds	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:37:00 - [29] /supported as long as the pvp arena session is entirely customizable; otherwise, /not supported. A thought to add: you would want this at a hub or large station, though not to make lag worse. This would be a huge ISK sink, and the market demand for ships and modules near these pvp arenas would increase as well. Locating this type of venture near a cheap source of goods would be a smart move.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.01 10:46:00 - [30] imo as long as the can trick is around, ccp should seriously look into arenas. however imo one per faction is still pushing it. there needs to be one, singluar hub right in the middle of the map. I say right in the very 1st system in eve, with the eve gate. Then have it so you can que up for fights that take place one a month and are handled via programed match-up UI. You;ll know when you're matches are, and you'll have to be ready 5 mins ahead of time to dock up with the arena. Let people bet on fights, make sure ship lost is real. By having only a center monthly hub for consensual pvp you INCREASE the sandbox feel of the game. the issue with instanced wow arena is you teleport out of the game world and just fight randomly for some points to buy something. With a central REAL arena in the game world, where the only way to make awards is to bet on yourself, you open a whole new gameplay style into the game. Plus think of the suicide ganking potential : )



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