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James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.27 13:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 13:12:04 In the future (the fuuuuuuuturrrrrreeeeeeeeee), there will be a new currency called Aurum (AUR) which is different from ISK in that it's spelled differently. And is used for different stuff too.
The point of Aurum is to allow you to buy such vanity items as custom paintjobs for your ship, clothes for your guy or doll, or somestuffÖ.
Now there exists a problem that I have identified with CCP's concerns for Supply/Demand and the way that AUR is being implemented.
Currently you'll be able to obtain AUR by splitting your PLEX up on an ISK > AUR conversion rate. Which is the problem really. Allowing AUR through PLEX wont create enough demand for the product(s) on sale through PLEX conversion alone.
This is based on these factors.
òSome people play this game for free. Buying PLEX only to convert to game time. òSome people actually USE PLEX for game time only! òIt costs more money that a lot of people may not have creating the sort of 'exclusivity' that CCP has always been dead set against. òConversion rates would possibly kill demand for Vanity Items straight out of the trap. òSome people are running multiple subscriptions and probably wont want to have to fork out for a PLEX just to get a logo on their ship.
So how to address this problem?
The first way to tackle this is for CCP (oh...you guys!) to roll out the most desirable items first. By MOST DESIRABLE I mean the most desirable features I've seen asked for time and again on the forums. These are: òLogo on ship. òCustom Paint Job. (would be very popular) òMoar Clothes. IN THAT ORDER!
But that still doesn't solve the problem of having to convert $ to AUR, which is unviable for a lot of people.
To this end you should be able to convert ISK to AUR no matter how you earned the ISK but with a conversion bonus if you have a PLEX.
Let us say it works like this.
I have a plex. I can convert it to:
ò600,000,000ISK or 300,000AUR ò300,000,000ISK + 125,000AUR ò500,000,000ISK + 10,000AUR
Now, If I just have ISK to burn, (but not enough for a PLEX) and just want to convert it to AUR, you should be able to do so without buying a PLEX but at a much lower conversion.
1,000,000ISK = 1,000 AUR, as a flat conversion rate, for example.
In this way you keep the benefits of getting AUR through PLEX as attractive to the people who recently won the Lotto, but players who don't own Rolls Royces in Real Life can also buy AUR for some stuff.
You would price items accordingly. Like the difference between buying some jeans and having your car resprayed.
For example a paint job for your ship is going to cost you 300,000,000AUR straight off the bat. Because painting ships is big business and buying paint is expensive. Amirite?
Clothes would be cheaper, but vary in price depending on what it was. SOME clothing items could only be obtained through Loyalty Points or Agent Rewards (Caldari Navy Uniform parts, for example - after all the point of eve is we do stuff in SPACE and I can't see why you'd be able to BUY a military uniform...)
Short boots: 400AUR Long Boots 600AUR Full Length Jacket, 1050AUR Short jacket 980AUR Pants: 690AUR
Logo on ship, 100,000,000AUR Paintjob on ship, 300,000,000AUR
Some clothes could even be priced on the type of material they are.
Ripped oil-stained Vest: 250AUR Nanofibre Longcoat: 5600AUR
All this is rough speculation, of course, but I fancied that it needed addressing as we've always been dead set against exclusivity in EVE and we have a wide WIDE demographic of players from Kids on a limited $budget (pocket money) to impoverished Students to men of means.
[x] Thoughts. [x]Comments. [x]Suggestions [ ] Trolling.
GO!
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 13:43:00 -
[2]
I understand what your saying.
I think those proportions are way off for what the pricing is going to look like. I have no idea about the plex to AUR conversions but being able to do purchase AUR with just ISK seems like an adjustment CCP would make like 2 years later if there is a problem.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 14:38:00 -
[3]
AUR is being introduced as a PLEX sink, it's as simple as that. There are far more PLEX being generated than they are being used, PLEX stockpiles are getting high, and CCP doesn't like that. As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
If the vanity item/feature price in AUR is not destroying sufficient PLEX volumes, the AUR prices can be lowered, or the system exchange rate between PLEX and AUR can be boosted until the desirable PLEX destruction rate is achieved. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 14:42:00 -
[4]
Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:09:00 -
[5]
I don't see problems but opportunities. I hope we'll get something like Forex, with a ISKAUR pair for us to trade.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:14:10 Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:13:06
Originally by: The Illustrious Juden Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
I have actually researched further and found you can sell stuff you bought with AUR for ISK, which softens the blow. But there still should be a way of making AUR out of pure ISK in a plexless model because in eve, there is no exclusivity :P
I personally have plenty of ISK/Plexes. I just don't want to see the forums full of QQ because only a quarter of the playerbase can get their hands on AUR items.
But some of the other stuff I said still stands.
Various varieties of paint jobs and clothes should be LP based too. IE; officer uniforms, pirate paint jobs etc.
@Juden: I know. I was just making up numbers at random.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: James Vayne Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:14:10 Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:13:06
Originally by: The Illustrious Juden Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
I have actually researched further and found you can sell stuff you bought with AUR for ISK, which softens the blow. But there still should be a way of making AUR out of pure ISK in a plexless model because in eve, there is no exclusivity :P
I personally have plenty of ISK/Plexes. I just don't want to see the forums full of QQ because only a quarter of the playerbase can get their hands on AUR items.
But some of the other stuff I said still stands.
Various varieties of paint jobs and clothes should be LP based too. IE; officer uniforms, pirate paint jobs etc.
@Juden: I know. I was just making up numbers at random.
What's the problem? I mean, it's impossible not to make money in EvE, what's the deal that would push people crying for some e-injustice? Just smarten up and farm, no?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:23:00 -
[8]
Buy PLEX now while its low.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:26:00 -
[9]
I doubt CCP would allow a purchase or AUR for ISK at a set rate unless they also do a set rate for PLEX.
PLEX-AUR is very likely going to be a set conversion rate. In this way CCP can account for, and monetize their development/creativity time for vanity items. Real Money to PLEX is also at a fixed rate, it is easy to track and put on a real world balance sheet. ISK-PLEX is not a fixed rate and would be a nightmare.
The volume and velocity of ISK changes and is driven largely by in-game internal factors in such a way that it can not be accounted for in a real world ledger sheet. I can imagine a stock holders meeting, "Our profitability is down because NC blew up five titans and Goons lost a few of their moons, this has slowed T2 production and is increasing player costs in-game, so they are not buying as many Incarna boots, so we had to lay off one of our artists. As such we will need to delay the release of the next expansion as we shuffle off that work load on to the rest of the art department."
If CCP starts to set or fix PLEX prices, the entire goal of PLEX, as a tool against RMT farmers, is lost.
Ain't gonna happen, and if it does, Eve dies.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mr LaForge Buy PLEX now while its low.
I got the last ones in The Citadel :p
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.05.27 21:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cearain on 27/05/2011 21:59:25 This is what ccp said:
"My PLEX prices!
If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX."
I'm not an economist, but I can't see how adjusting the plex to aurum conversion will work to keep isk to plex prices down. It can only rise unless aurum to plex is so expensive no one buys aurum and having a ship with a logo become the mark of an idiot. But assuming you can buy a reasonable amount of aurum stuff for your $17 dollar plex, how could adjusting the plex to aurum conversion effect the isk to plex conversion?
They metion "various tools." Will they resort to something else to reduce the price of plex? Will they lower subscription costs as one of their "various tools." More accounts would mean more microtransactions.
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Fiat Money
The Privy Council Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.27 22:17:00 -
[12]
Why shall I invest my hard traded ISK or even RL money for PLEX to buy clothes or logos for my ship nobody pays attention for, except myself. And, if those things get blown up next time everything is lost, as I have read in the devblog.
It seems CCP needs more income and craeted a new RL money sink. Why else they link vanity items with PLEX? I don't see any benefits for the regular player.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.05.27 22:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
How about purchase of AUR from another player how got the AUR by breaking up a PLEX?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:09:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2011 23:16:09
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: Akita T As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
How about purchase of AUR from another player how got the AUR by breaking up a PLEX?
That should not be a problem at all.
/----> ISK <-----\ | ^ | v | v $$$ -> PLEX | AUR items v | ^ | v | \----> AUR >-----/
Looks fine to me. Maximum freedom, guaranteed PLEX-sink.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:18:00 -
[15]
Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Raid''En on 27/05/2011 23:26:19
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
you want each pair of boots to cost at least an entire 400m isk ? AUR are here to have something smaller than plex. and it's needed.
i'm still don't really see where is the profit for us on trading them however. plex create isk and aur, so isk and aur are directly linked, i don't see a need to have both currency usable to trade vanity items
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Belloche
Caldari Revelation Exploration Inc. Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
Maybe because I would not want to pay approx $15.00 for my logo to be put on my ship? $2.50, maybe, but not $15.00.
Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX. I imagine the idea of buying 500 units of the exact same pair of pants for a PLEX would not make for an attractive sell. But make 1x PLEX convert into 1000x AUR, and you can charge 2 AUR per pair of pants. At the same time, you just removed the PLEX from your financial liability column in bookkeeping. Win-win.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Isaar Kirom
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Posted - 2011.05.28 02:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fiat Money
It seems CCP needs more income and craeted a new RL money sink. Why else they link vanity items with PLEX? I don't see any benefits for the regular player.
They're not exactly trying to hide this fact. It says right in the Dev Blog that they are doing this as a way to pay for the time and resources needed to create and implement these "vanity" things that players want. The benefit to players is pretty simple. It lets CCP put in the little extras that people have always asked for (people have begged for custom paint jobs for as long as I've played this game) while theoretically not taking resources away from development and maintenance of actual game mechanics.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.05.28 02:56:00 -
[20]
And since they likely do the monocle production in Atlanta, hiring additional designers / modelers to meet demand would be much easier.
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.
It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I don't see problems but opportunities. I hope we'll get something like Forex, with a ISKAUR pair for us to trade.
I doubt we'll see that.
But, especially in the very beginning (I'm looking at you Akita The Expansion Day Trades Mogul), there'll probably be a good chance for traders to profit around this new mechanic.
ISK value of AUR, is not directly defined. AUR is going to be 2-steps away from ISK in both directions. However those directions are not symmetric. From ISK to AUR you go through PLEXes, from AUR to ISK you go through vanity items. Both these two-step conversions have one step that is one-way and fixed-rate (PLEX to AUR and AUR to vanity item) and the other step that is market driven. The granularity, however, is not the same. Going from ISK to AUR happens in minimum blocks of 1 PLEX.
If all you want is new sun glasses you may not be willing to convert a whole PLEX. You'd rather pay a little more than the exact theoretical value according to current PLEX rates and get the glasses for ISK directly. Therefore the vanity item value (in ISK) on the market could be a little higher than the theoretical one.
Because of the above there may be profit in actually buying a PLEX, converting it to AUR, buying your glasses and *also* other items to resell for ISK. However if too many people do this the value of those items, in ISK, will drop. Possibly even below the current PLEX value (because of the one-wayness of those conversions).
The rest of the story is just normal supply/demand.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
As for the patch day opportunities, I don't think we'll see much in the way of price increases (other than PLEX, that is, and even that just in the short run), so there's not that much to speculate on. Since the PLEX-AUR exchange rate will probably be fixed (or, if ever adjusted, most likely tweaked to yield more AUR per PLEX), and since PLEX prices will most likely hit a high just a bit after AUR is introduced, all the AUR items should start very close to the highest prices they will ever have and then drop smoothly, not jaggedly, and at ISK prices not that much above their share-of-PLEX equivalent, so not much to speculate on there either. Sure, one or two AUR items might have brief windows of potential profitability, but the ISK volumes involved would hardly be worth bothering when compared to simply flipping PLEX. So, all in all, way too much uncertainty, too much work and too little profit for my taste. The only item I might be tempted to touch (just tempted) would be PLEX and not much else. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Originally by: Akita T ...stuff...
Actually yes. Unfortunately there's no shorting in EvE
Originally by: Akita T The only item I might be tempted to touch (just tempted) would be PLEX and not much else.
A bit too late already. IMO it'll still go up. But if you did not invest already you have already lost the best chance. I bought some between 340-350 when it broke the 340 resistance a few months ago. I was very tempted to sell when it bounced back twice from around 370, but I did not. Recently sold a few at just below 390 for liquidity (and a little fear of the round number and historical max). Holding now.
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:44:00 -
[24]
Edited by: The Illustrious Juden on 28/05/2011 05:45:08 Betting that PLEX isn't going to rise is betting either that CCP won't be able to deliver the AUR store or that it will be widely unused and disliked. Despite the seemingly incessant derision on the forums of vanity items we all saw the pandemonium which ensued when people were allowed to Barbie or GI Joe their characters a few months ago and the appeal of vanity items in the wider gaming market.
I guess the market being flooded with cheap vanity items immediately following the introduction of the AUR store is a possibility but not at all a likely one. As of now, to me the only variable determining the relative fate of PLEX prices is the conversion rate to AUR set by CCP. Of course if you think PLEX is going to drop please share the reason why.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Well, currencies are traded (see my Forex reference). I am actually underwhelmed by the fact CCP never introduced Empire currencies for us to trade, as I find highly difficult that i.e. a regular Minmatar or a Thukker would use the same currency Amarrians use. I see ISK as a sort of dollar (i.e. wide coverage as workhorse currency including lawless space) mixed with Euro (i.e. a bridge between heterogeneous economies) and thus dealt by EvE Central Bank. Local banks would cover both ISK and a local currency. LP stores would become history, LP would become a local currency (or let LP become THE local currency, with adequate tools).
Aurum would just add into the mix, we'd enjoy 5 major pairs plus 4 cross pairs. One could choose whether to buy his Raven in Caldari money or ISK, whatever that day is more convenient.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:01:00 -
[26]
Quote:
I guess the market being flooded with cheap vanity items immediately following the introduction of the AUR store is a possibility but not at all a likely one.
I hope CCP will create a sort of Aurum Store (like LP store but with a less ret*rded UI) where you can redeem BPCs and items are PI materials heavy. Many birds with one stone! (ie industrialists love, PI overabundance sink, free market.... hmmmm *tasty*).
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Well, currencies are traded (see my Forex reference). I am actually underwhelmed by the fact CCP never introduced Empire currencies for us to trade, as I find highly difficult that i.e. a regular Minmatar or a Thukker would use the same currency Amarrians use. I see ISK as a sort of dollar (i.e. wide coverage as workhorse currency including lawless space) mixed with Euro (i.e. a bridge between heterogeneous economies) and thus dealt by EvE Central Bank. Local banks would cover both ISK and a local currency. LP stores would become history, LP would become a local currency (or let LP become THE local currency, with adequate tools).
Aurum would just add into the mix, we'd enjoy 5 major pairs plus 4 cross pairs. One could choose whether to buy his Raven in Caldari money or ISK, whatever that day is more convenient.
It would be cool. But they do not have a mechanism for player driven currency exchange. Developing a FOREX would allow all of that, but it's not there nor, AFAIK, planned.
As for Akita's suggestion that AUR could be traded on the market, that will not work because the market is based on a very specific data organization in the database that is not there for AUR (specifically: you can only trade on the market something that has a non null value in field invTypes.marketGroupID, but AUR is not even a record in table invTypes, it's just a "balance" in your wallet).
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I hope CCP will create a sort of Aurum Store (like LP store but with a less ret*rded UI) where you can redeem BPCs and items are PI materials heavy. Many birds with one stone! (ie industrialists love, PI overabundance sink, free market.... hmmmm *tasty*).
For the moment it seems we'll have a store where you can buy PLEXes from CCP (for real money), redeem PLEXes you bought into your hangar, convert PLEXes in your hangar into AUR, and buy vanity items for AUR. The vanity items, for the moment, are "NPC sold, for AUR", so to speak.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:40:00 -
[28]
Here's my economic and design vision about Aurum and derived items.
I find it's awesome (yeah being modest here ) and worth checking.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:31:00 -
[29]
I don't see why you can't just buy AUR directly from $.
Maybe I don't want to buy a plex and just want, say...2000 AUR.
I think I should be able to pay $5 and get an amount of AUR for that without having to spend more money than I'd use.
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Isaar Kirom
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Posted - 2011.05.28 15:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: James Vayne I don't see why you can't just buy AUR directly from $.
I think it's because a large part of this idea is to create a PLEX sink.
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