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James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.27 13:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 13:12:04 In the future (the fuuuuuuuturrrrrreeeeeeeeee), there will be a new currency called Aurum (AUR) which is different from ISK in that it's spelled differently. And is used for different stuff too.
The point of Aurum is to allow you to buy such vanity items as custom paintjobs for your ship, clothes for your guy or doll, or somestuffÖ.
Now there exists a problem that I have identified with CCP's concerns for Supply/Demand and the way that AUR is being implemented.
Currently you'll be able to obtain AUR by splitting your PLEX up on an ISK > AUR conversion rate. Which is the problem really. Allowing AUR through PLEX wont create enough demand for the product(s) on sale through PLEX conversion alone.
This is based on these factors.
òSome people play this game for free. Buying PLEX only to convert to game time. òSome people actually USE PLEX for game time only! òIt costs more money that a lot of people may not have creating the sort of 'exclusivity' that CCP has always been dead set against. òConversion rates would possibly kill demand for Vanity Items straight out of the trap. òSome people are running multiple subscriptions and probably wont want to have to fork out for a PLEX just to get a logo on their ship.
So how to address this problem?
The first way to tackle this is for CCP (oh...you guys!) to roll out the most desirable items first. By MOST DESIRABLE I mean the most desirable features I've seen asked for time and again on the forums. These are: òLogo on ship. òCustom Paint Job. (would be very popular) òMoar Clothes. IN THAT ORDER!
But that still doesn't solve the problem of having to convert $ to AUR, which is unviable for a lot of people.
To this end you should be able to convert ISK to AUR no matter how you earned the ISK but with a conversion bonus if you have a PLEX.
Let us say it works like this.
I have a plex. I can convert it to:
ò600,000,000ISK or 300,000AUR ò300,000,000ISK + 125,000AUR ò500,000,000ISK + 10,000AUR
Now, If I just have ISK to burn, (but not enough for a PLEX) and just want to convert it to AUR, you should be able to do so without buying a PLEX but at a much lower conversion.
1,000,000ISK = 1,000 AUR, as a flat conversion rate, for example.
In this way you keep the benefits of getting AUR through PLEX as attractive to the people who recently won the Lotto, but players who don't own Rolls Royces in Real Life can also buy AUR for some stuff.
You would price items accordingly. Like the difference between buying some jeans and having your car resprayed.
For example a paint job for your ship is going to cost you 300,000,000AUR straight off the bat. Because painting ships is big business and buying paint is expensive. Amirite?
Clothes would be cheaper, but vary in price depending on what it was. SOME clothing items could only be obtained through Loyalty Points or Agent Rewards (Caldari Navy Uniform parts, for example - after all the point of eve is we do stuff in SPACE and I can't see why you'd be able to BUY a military uniform...)
Short boots: 400AUR Long Boots 600AUR Full Length Jacket, 1050AUR Short jacket 980AUR Pants: 690AUR
Logo on ship, 100,000,000AUR Paintjob on ship, 300,000,000AUR
Some clothes could even be priced on the type of material they are.
Ripped oil-stained Vest: 250AUR Nanofibre Longcoat: 5600AUR
All this is rough speculation, of course, but I fancied that it needed addressing as we've always been dead set against exclusivity in EVE and we have a wide WIDE demographic of players from Kids on a limited $budget (pocket money) to impoverished Students to men of means.
[x] Thoughts. [x]Comments. [x]Suggestions [ ] Trolling.
GO!
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 13:43:00 -
[2]
I understand what your saying.
I think those proportions are way off for what the pricing is going to look like. I have no idea about the plex to AUR conversions but being able to do purchase AUR with just ISK seems like an adjustment CCP would make like 2 years later if there is a problem.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 14:38:00 -
[3]
AUR is being introduced as a PLEX sink, it's as simple as that. There are far more PLEX being generated than they are being used, PLEX stockpiles are getting high, and CCP doesn't like that. As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
If the vanity item/feature price in AUR is not destroying sufficient PLEX volumes, the AUR prices can be lowered, or the system exchange rate between PLEX and AUR can be boosted until the desirable PLEX destruction rate is achieved. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 14:42:00 -
[4]
Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:09:00 -
[5]
I don't see problems but opportunities. I hope we'll get something like Forex, with a ISKAUR pair for us to trade.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:14:10 Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:13:06
Originally by: The Illustrious Juden Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
I have actually researched further and found you can sell stuff you bought with AUR for ISK, which softens the blow. But there still should be a way of making AUR out of pure ISK in a plexless model because in eve, there is no exclusivity :P
I personally have plenty of ISK/Plexes. I just don't want to see the forums full of QQ because only a quarter of the playerbase can get their hands on AUR items.
But some of the other stuff I said still stands.
Various varieties of paint jobs and clothes should be LP based too. IE; officer uniforms, pirate paint jobs etc.
@Juden: I know. I was just making up numbers at random.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: James Vayne Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:14:10 Edited by: James Vayne on 27/05/2011 15:13:06
Originally by: The Illustrious Juden Just no hesitation about crushing his dreams, huh?
James, I don't think anything is going to be so out of reach it'll be unattainable.
I have actually researched further and found you can sell stuff you bought with AUR for ISK, which softens the blow. But there still should be a way of making AUR out of pure ISK in a plexless model because in eve, there is no exclusivity :P
I personally have plenty of ISK/Plexes. I just don't want to see the forums full of QQ because only a quarter of the playerbase can get their hands on AUR items.
But some of the other stuff I said still stands.
Various varieties of paint jobs and clothes should be LP based too. IE; officer uniforms, pirate paint jobs etc.
@Juden: I know. I was just making up numbers at random.
What's the problem? I mean, it's impossible not to make money in EvE, what's the deal that would push people crying for some e-injustice? Just smarten up and farm, no?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:23:00 -
[8]
Buy PLEX now while its low.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:26:00 -
[9]
I doubt CCP would allow a purchase or AUR for ISK at a set rate unless they also do a set rate for PLEX.
PLEX-AUR is very likely going to be a set conversion rate. In this way CCP can account for, and monetize their development/creativity time for vanity items. Real Money to PLEX is also at a fixed rate, it is easy to track and put on a real world balance sheet. ISK-PLEX is not a fixed rate and would be a nightmare.
The volume and velocity of ISK changes and is driven largely by in-game internal factors in such a way that it can not be accounted for in a real world ledger sheet. I can imagine a stock holders meeting, "Our profitability is down because NC blew up five titans and Goons lost a few of their moons, this has slowed T2 production and is increasing player costs in-game, so they are not buying as many Incarna boots, so we had to lay off one of our artists. As such we will need to delay the release of the next expansion as we shuffle off that work load on to the rest of the art department."
If CCP starts to set or fix PLEX prices, the entire goal of PLEX, as a tool against RMT farmers, is lost.
Ain't gonna happen, and if it does, Eve dies.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mr LaForge Buy PLEX now while its low.
I got the last ones in The Citadel :p
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.05.27 21:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cearain on 27/05/2011 21:59:25 This is what ccp said:
"My PLEX prices!
If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX."
I'm not an economist, but I can't see how adjusting the plex to aurum conversion will work to keep isk to plex prices down. It can only rise unless aurum to plex is so expensive no one buys aurum and having a ship with a logo become the mark of an idiot. But assuming you can buy a reasonable amount of aurum stuff for your $17 dollar plex, how could adjusting the plex to aurum conversion effect the isk to plex conversion?
They metion "various tools." Will they resort to something else to reduce the price of plex? Will they lower subscription costs as one of their "various tools." More accounts would mean more microtransactions.
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Fiat Money
The Privy Council Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.27 22:17:00 -
[12]
Why shall I invest my hard traded ISK or even RL money for PLEX to buy clothes or logos for my ship nobody pays attention for, except myself. And, if those things get blown up next time everything is lost, as I have read in the devblog.
It seems CCP needs more income and craeted a new RL money sink. Why else they link vanity items with PLEX? I don't see any benefits for the regular player.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.05.27 22:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
How about purchase of AUR from another player how got the AUR by breaking up a PLEX?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:09:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2011 23:16:09
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: Akita T As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
How about purchase of AUR from another player how got the AUR by breaking up a PLEX?
That should not be a problem at all.
/----> ISK <-----\ | ^ | v | v $$$ -> PLEX | AUR items v | ^ | v | \----> AUR >-----/
Looks fine to me. Maximum freedom, guaranteed PLEX-sink.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:18:00 -
[15]
Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Raid''En on 27/05/2011 23:26:19
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
you want each pair of boots to cost at least an entire 400m isk ? AUR are here to have something smaller than plex. and it's needed.
i'm still don't really see where is the profit for us on trading them however. plex create isk and aur, so isk and aur are directly linked, i don't see a need to have both currency usable to trade vanity items
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Belloche
Caldari Revelation Exploration Inc. Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
Maybe because I would not want to pay approx $15.00 for my logo to be put on my ship? $2.50, maybe, but not $15.00.
Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX. I imagine the idea of buying 500 units of the exact same pair of pants for a PLEX would not make for an attractive sell. But make 1x PLEX convert into 1000x AUR, and you can charge 2 AUR per pair of pants. At the same time, you just removed the PLEX from your financial liability column in bookkeeping. Win-win.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Isaar Kirom
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Posted - 2011.05.28 02:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fiat Money
It seems CCP needs more income and craeted a new RL money sink. Why else they link vanity items with PLEX? I don't see any benefits for the regular player.
They're not exactly trying to hide this fact. It says right in the Dev Blog that they are doing this as a way to pay for the time and resources needed to create and implement these "vanity" things that players want. The benefit to players is pretty simple. It lets CCP put in the little extras that people have always asked for (people have begged for custom paint jobs for as long as I've played this game) while theoretically not taking resources away from development and maintenance of actual game mechanics.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.05.28 02:56:00 -
[20]
And since they likely do the monocle production in Atlanta, hiring additional designers / modelers to meet demand would be much easier.
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.
It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I don't see problems but opportunities. I hope we'll get something like Forex, with a ISKAUR pair for us to trade.
I doubt we'll see that.
But, especially in the very beginning (I'm looking at you Akita The Expansion Day Trades Mogul), there'll probably be a good chance for traders to profit around this new mechanic.
ISK value of AUR, is not directly defined. AUR is going to be 2-steps away from ISK in both directions. However those directions are not symmetric. From ISK to AUR you go through PLEXes, from AUR to ISK you go through vanity items. Both these two-step conversions have one step that is one-way and fixed-rate (PLEX to AUR and AUR to vanity item) and the other step that is market driven. The granularity, however, is not the same. Going from ISK to AUR happens in minimum blocks of 1 PLEX.
If all you want is new sun glasses you may not be willing to convert a whole PLEX. You'd rather pay a little more than the exact theoretical value according to current PLEX rates and get the glasses for ISK directly. Therefore the vanity item value (in ISK) on the market could be a little higher than the theoretical one.
Because of the above there may be profit in actually buying a PLEX, converting it to AUR, buying your glasses and *also* other items to resell for ISK. However if too many people do this the value of those items, in ISK, will drop. Possibly even below the current PLEX value (because of the one-wayness of those conversions).
The rest of the story is just normal supply/demand.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
As for the patch day opportunities, I don't think we'll see much in the way of price increases (other than PLEX, that is, and even that just in the short run), so there's not that much to speculate on. Since the PLEX-AUR exchange rate will probably be fixed (or, if ever adjusted, most likely tweaked to yield more AUR per PLEX), and since PLEX prices will most likely hit a high just a bit after AUR is introduced, all the AUR items should start very close to the highest prices they will ever have and then drop smoothly, not jaggedly, and at ISK prices not that much above their share-of-PLEX equivalent, so not much to speculate on there either. Sure, one or two AUR items might have brief windows of potential profitability, but the ISK volumes involved would hardly be worth bothering when compared to simply flipping PLEX. So, all in all, way too much uncertainty, too much work and too little profit for my taste. The only item I might be tempted to touch (just tempted) would be PLEX and not much else. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Originally by: Akita T ...stuff...
Actually yes. Unfortunately there's no shorting in EvE
Originally by: Akita T The only item I might be tempted to touch (just tempted) would be PLEX and not much else.
A bit too late already. IMO it'll still go up. But if you did not invest already you have already lost the best chance. I bought some between 340-350 when it broke the 340 resistance a few months ago. I was very tempted to sell when it bounced back twice from around 370, but I did not. Recently sold a few at just below 390 for liquidity (and a little fear of the round number and historical max). Holding now.
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:44:00 -
[24]
Edited by: The Illustrious Juden on 28/05/2011 05:45:08 Betting that PLEX isn't going to rise is betting either that CCP won't be able to deliver the AUR store or that it will be widely unused and disliked. Despite the seemingly incessant derision on the forums of vanity items we all saw the pandemonium which ensued when people were allowed to Barbie or GI Joe their characters a few months ago and the appeal of vanity items in the wider gaming market.
I guess the market being flooded with cheap vanity items immediately following the introduction of the AUR store is a possibility but not at all a likely one. As of now, to me the only variable determining the relative fate of PLEX prices is the conversion rate to AUR set by CCP. Of course if you think PLEX is going to drop please share the reason why.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T AUR is basically nothing more than a fractional PLEX.
Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Well, currencies are traded (see my Forex reference). I am actually underwhelmed by the fact CCP never introduced Empire currencies for us to trade, as I find highly difficult that i.e. a regular Minmatar or a Thukker would use the same currency Amarrians use. I see ISK as a sort of dollar (i.e. wide coverage as workhorse currency including lawless space) mixed with Euro (i.e. a bridge between heterogeneous economies) and thus dealt by EvE Central Bank. Local banks would cover both ISK and a local currency. LP stores would become history, LP would become a local currency (or let LP become THE local currency, with adequate tools).
Aurum would just add into the mix, we'd enjoy 5 major pairs plus 4 cross pairs. One could choose whether to buy his Raven in Caldari money or ISK, whatever that day is more convenient.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:01:00 -
[26]
Quote:
I guess the market being flooded with cheap vanity items immediately following the introduction of the AUR store is a possibility but not at all a likely one.
I hope CCP will create a sort of Aurum Store (like LP store but with a less ret*rded UI) where you can redeem BPCs and items are PI materials heavy. Many birds with one stone! (ie industrialists love, PI overabundance sink, free market.... hmmmm *tasty*).
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia Not exactly. AUR is a fractional PLEX that cannot be traded directly.It can however be indirectly traded in the form of vanity items.
For now. There's no serious issue with allowing AUR to be also traded on the market eventually, just like PLEX. Maybe not from the first day, of course (to promote a "jumpstart", so to speak), but eventually, I don't see why not.
Because it's not an item. It does not exist in the database in the form of an item. It's a currency. You see it in your wallet as a balance (top right, just below the isk balance in the new wallet) not in your cargo.
Well, currencies are traded (see my Forex reference). I am actually underwhelmed by the fact CCP never introduced Empire currencies for us to trade, as I find highly difficult that i.e. a regular Minmatar or a Thukker would use the same currency Amarrians use. I see ISK as a sort of dollar (i.e. wide coverage as workhorse currency including lawless space) mixed with Euro (i.e. a bridge between heterogeneous economies) and thus dealt by EvE Central Bank. Local banks would cover both ISK and a local currency. LP stores would become history, LP would become a local currency (or let LP become THE local currency, with adequate tools).
Aurum would just add into the mix, we'd enjoy 5 major pairs plus 4 cross pairs. One could choose whether to buy his Raven in Caldari money or ISK, whatever that day is more convenient.
It would be cool. But they do not have a mechanism for player driven currency exchange. Developing a FOREX would allow all of that, but it's not there nor, AFAIK, planned.
As for Akita's suggestion that AUR could be traded on the market, that will not work because the market is based on a very specific data organization in the database that is not there for AUR (specifically: you can only trade on the market something that has a non null value in field invTypes.marketGroupID, but AUR is not even a record in table invTypes, it's just a "balance" in your wallet).
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I hope CCP will create a sort of Aurum Store (like LP store but with a less ret*rded UI) where you can redeem BPCs and items are PI materials heavy. Many birds with one stone! (ie industrialists love, PI overabundance sink, free market.... hmmmm *tasty*).
For the moment it seems we'll have a store where you can buy PLEXes from CCP (for real money), redeem PLEXes you bought into your hangar, convert PLEXes in your hangar into AUR, and buy vanity items for AUR. The vanity items, for the moment, are "NPC sold, for AUR", so to speak.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:40:00 -
[28]
Here's my economic and design vision about Aurum and derived items.
I find it's awesome (yeah being modest here ) and worth checking.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:31:00 -
[29]
I don't see why you can't just buy AUR directly from $.
Maybe I don't want to buy a plex and just want, say...2000 AUR.
I think I should be able to pay $5 and get an amount of AUR for that without having to spend more money than I'd use.
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Isaar Kirom
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Posted - 2011.05.28 15:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: James Vayne I don't see why you can't just buy AUR directly from $.
I think it's because a large part of this idea is to create a PLEX sink.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.28 15:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ami Nia As for Akita's suggestion that AUR could be traded on the market, that will not work because the market is based on a very specific data organization in the database that is not there for AUR (specifically: you can only trade on the market something that has a non null value in field invTypes.marketGroupID, but AUR is not even a record in table invTypes, it's just a "balance" in your wallet).
We've been asking for a "stockmarket" of sorts (to trade shares and such other intangibles) for ages, there's no reason this couldn't eventually happen. The shares must already have an unique ID anyway, obviously a different type of ID than tangible items, but still some ID... else how exactly can the system know which shares do we have ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Isaar Kirom
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Posted - 2011.05.28 16:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia As for Akita's suggestion that AUR could be traded on the market, that will not work because the market is based on a very specific data organization in the database that is not there for AUR (specifically: you can only trade on the market something that has a non null value in field invTypes.marketGroupID, but AUR is not even a record in table invTypes, it's just a "balance" in your wallet).
We've been asking for a "stockmarket" of sorts (to trade shares and such other intangibles) for ages, there's no reason this couldn't eventually happen. The shares must already have an unique ID anyway, obviously a different type of ID than tangible items, but still some ID... else how exactly can the system know which shares do we have ?
EVE is already the most complex game (at least MMO) on the market. All these additions people want are going to require more resources from CCP. Short of raising subscription costs, which is something they don't want to do, the only way to do this is to find ways for people to voluntarily pump more money into their coffers. Thus we get PLEX -> AUR.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.28 16:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Isaar Kirom EVE is already the most complex game (at least MMO) on the market. All these additions people want are going to require more resources from CCP. Short of raising subscription costs, which is something they don't want to do, the only way to do this is to find ways for people to voluntarily pump more money into their coffers. Thus we get PLEX -> AUR.
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China ? It's not like CCP is running at a zero accounting balance, and it's not like they never hire new staff, and it's not like they're not involved in TWO other completely separate games. Sure, they would like more money, WHO WOULDN'T... but to suggest that finding the manpower to work on some rather basic functionalities that have been neglected so long is simply and only a matter of total income is at best laughable. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.28 21:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 28/05/2011 21:48:48 Akita, you obviously dont know how many people it takes to maintain the accounts of even a small savings and loan. and on top of that they have to bring in outside Auditors all the time just to double check there work.
Now you want a company that has a history of trouble properly accounting for mats in industrial processes due to all of the Bookkeeping shortcuts that they take that would never muster with any real world standardised accounting bookkeeping or inventory system. . .to create a working stock exchange. . . .
Given the scale of what goes on every hour of every day in this game I would say at a minimum you would need a full 7 man Accounting system development team about a year TO FIX THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
thats before they could actualy go in and start codework to impliment any real world based stockmarket, comidity market and so on.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.28 23:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ami Nia As for Akita's suggestion that AUR could be traded on the market, that will not work because the market is based on a very specific data organization in the database that is not there for AUR (specifically: you can only trade on the market something that has a non null value in field invTypes.marketGroupID, but AUR is not even a record in table invTypes, it's just a "balance" in your wallet).
We've been asking for a "stockmarket" of sorts (to trade shares and such other intangibles) for ages, there's no reason this couldn't eventually happen. The shares must already have an unique ID anyway, obviously a different type of ID than tangible items, but still some ID... else how exactly can the system know which shares do we have ?
I'm not saying that a stock market or a forex system is not possible. Of course it is, at least in theory. But there are complexity and performance issues. I'm saying that even if two "features" appear just that the gamer's point of view, they may be completely different in terms of development cost and risk.
Market is designed for something very specific: stacks of item types. You cannot put on the market a specific item, just a stack of undifferentiated stuff with a common item type. That's why you need repair and repackage before selling on the market. And you cannot put on the market BPCs.
You also cannot put on the market AUR, shares, and isks themself. I do not know for sure how these are handled in the DB because there's nothing in the public DB dump (and schema) about them. It may be possible to infer something from the way they are reported in the API accessible XMLs, but I did not look into the APIs.
I speculate that if/when CCP decides to tackle these aspects they will eventually develop a whole infrastructure for them. That involves not only the server software but the database structure too and a cluster wide direct interaction with the database backing for it (unlike the market that is regional). This would enable multiple currencies, a forex, a stock exchange etc. etc. They are all similar problems.
CCP needs to plan ahead and do heavy testing as this would be a new major subsystem and it will impact almost all other aspects of the server functionality. A distributed solution may be possible but IMO not gonna happen until the HPC industry solves the current problems with reliable low-latency messaging and direct memory transactions across systems.
My opinion.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 04:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Akita, you obviously dont know how many people it takes to maintain the accounts of even a small savings and loan. and on top of that they have to bring in outside Auditors all the time just to double check there work.
This so-called "stock market" we're asking for, in its simplest and initially sufficient form would be nothing more than a regular market where the item IDs of stackable items would be replaced by the intangible's unique IDs, and there would be no limitation regarding location (or, if you insist, you could have separate ones for different regions, for optimization purposes). They basically need to copypaste the market code, replace one set of ID calls with another set of ID calls, strip out a bunch of stuff, test it's not broken, done. Simple ? Yes. Easy ? No. Hard/long work, sure, but not complicated. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 04:16:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 29/05/2011 04:18:07 ok from what I remember from previous discutions with developers
Plex has a Unique ID number that is permient for it from the instant of creation to the instant it is consumed. they also know how said plex was payed for.
BPOs also are unique from the instant they can no longer be restacked as individual units
Ships and modules have a Uniqe ID number from the insant they are assembled or instaled untill the instant they are removed from gameplay by distruction or repackaged.
basicaly they can know that your ship used to be a ship and not a package, and they know which stack of otherwise identical pacages your ship goes into when its repackaged and stacked, but beyond that point the system no longer knows nore cares which one was your ship(IE if you had a Kestral, repackaged it, restacked it into a lot of 10,000 othe Kessies, the system will not be able to tell you wich one was your ship, however they can tell you that you put it in the stack of 10,001 other kesstrals at station X of moon Y of planet Z which you reprocessed on April 2 2010 because you could not sell them.
Each individual stack of ore or ammo or modules or whatever has its own Unique ID, but not each and every item in said stack. Bascialy the ID is tied to what is basicaly a counter,
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Steve Thomas (each) PLEX has an unique ID number that is permanent for it from the instant of creation to the instant it is consumed.
That's unlikely, considering they can be stacked and sold on the market. Can you find any reference to that anywhere ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 19:39:00 -
[39]
On two diferent occasions they have stated that they knew Exactly how each plex was payed for. once recently related to the Plex for Good:Japan and previously when they indicated that they could track a plex that was created from a stolen CC or Debt account number to its final user.
Quote: Will the money be paid to the charity in dollars or Euros? PLEX purchased in Euros will be donated in US dollars, but the amount will equal the original Euro value. Does CCP profit if I buy PLEX in euros which is then donated and converted to a dollar value? PLEX purchased in euros will be donated for the full amount. CCP will absorb any VAT charges incurred so that the charity receives the full amount donated by players.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PLEX_for_GOOD#Will_the_money_be_paid_to_the_charity_in_dollars_or_Euros.3F
Unless they ment something completly diferent, they aparently convert the value of each "Europlex" to the then current USD value and record that at the point/time of purchase
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.29 19:49:00 -
[40]
I believe CCP has already stated that they will not build stock exchanges or banks ingame. That's something that the player base can easily do themselves with the given tools.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 20:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2011 20:11:52
Originally by: Brock Nelson I believe CCP has already stated that they will not build stock exchanges or banks ingame. That's something that the player base can easily do themselves with the given tools.
Banks, sure, that I can easily understand, but for different reasons.
Stock exchanges however, no. WE DO NOT have the necessary tools. The necessary tool would be the ability to exchange shares like items - be it through some form of market or some form of contract. Right now, all you can do is TRUST the other person to send the shares/ISK. No guarantees. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.29 20:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 29/05/2011 20:25:13
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2011 20:11:52
Originally by: Brock Nelson I believe CCP has already stated that they will not build stock exchanges or banks ingame. That's something that the player base can easily do themselves with the given tools.
Banks, sure, that I can easily understand, but for different reasons.
Stock exchanges however, no. WE DO NOT have the necessary tools. The necessary tool would be the ability to exchange shares like items - be it through some form of market or some form of contract. Right now, all you can do is TRUST the other person to send the shares/ISK. No guarantees.
Block seems to handle that pretty well so far.
Trust has always been something that's hard to obtain in this game. See Factory Manager role, Director Role, Trade windows, etc.
Edit: I should clarify that Stock Exchanges is more about meta-gaming which is hard to implement in the game.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 20:49:00 -
[43]
You don't really need a "proper" stockmarket with everything that it involves ingame, just a regular market where you trade stocks like any other items. Players CAN take it from there easily.
Can you imagine how the economy would look like if the regular market would not exist, contracts would not exist, the direct trade window would not exist, and the only way to exchange something would be to donate your stuff and hope the other party donates the stuff you agreed with back ? Ouch. But that's basically how the exchange of stocks works now. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Akita T You don't really need a "proper" stockmarket with everything that it involves ingame, just a regular market where you trade stocks like any other items. Players CAN take it from there easily.
Exactly, as a matter of fact, i don't see the issue. Just create a new 'item' category in the market window. When you issue shares, an market item with the corp name is added to the overview and the 'items' (=shares) can be sold and bought like any other item.
The tricky part is that this overview will be really full after some time, so the only thing that needs to be added is some sort of option 'recently traded' to filter out the garbage.
Further this market perhaps should be limited to one location.
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: clixor Exactly, as a matter of fact, i don't see the issue. Just create a new 'item' category in the market window. When you issue shares, an market item with the corp name is added to the overview and the 'items' (=shares) can be sold and bought like any other item.
The tricky part is that this overview will be really full after some time, so the only thing that needs to be added is some sort of option 'recently traded' to filter out the garbage.
The real issue has nothing to do with a crowded overview. The real issue is that they would have to add a new object type whenever a corporation is created. However the table containing object types is basically a static readonly table and is eventually cached locally on each SOL at startup or soon after (and probably even locally on each client). It also is the largest table in the static database. Making that table dynamic could have a very very large impact. -- And then there's of course the thing with it getting FPS even slower than the character creator, heating up video cards, taking a noticeable time to fully load ... |
Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:39:00 -
[46]
Back to the topic of AURUM...
Initially, most folks will take the most direct route... buy PLEX and exchange for Aurum, buy what they want, then wait and see where the market eventually settles.
As always, the clever speculators will have a great time.
But like anything else, once the novelty wears off, prices will settle down.
As long as CCP is selling PLEX, CCP is happy. So be good little digital consumers and buy "stuff".
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2011.05.30 14:01:00 -
[47]
The PLEX to AURUM conversion is a one way street, so every plex exchanged for aurum is gone forever from the game, this is just a plex sink so CCP can keep "legit" RMTrs happy
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.30 18:42:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 30/05/2011 18:43:48 ok why would the people who are spending ISK to play be happy about this change?
the way I see it you will have the following groups of players.
A) buy a plex from CCP (or convert a gtc), toss it into the arrrum shreader and buy what they want for themselves
A1) a subset of this will be using the second plex to buy another month of game time or just drop it in ye auld cargo bay and forget about it.
A2) a second subset of this group will sell off the surplus plex for ISK, meaning that theres a few more avalible in the supply side and helping slightly push prices down
B)people who buy Plex with ISK, thoes get dumped into the Arrum shreader and disapear, meaning that theres fewer plex avalible, so the price will go up drawing more RMT money to plex instead, driving up the price of plex, and priceing out some of the people who use plex to pay for 1 or more accounts, and causing others to spend more time not playing the game and grinding to play the game.
Overall I suspect that for every 3 plex CCP gets from people who buy plex with isk they will end up loosing 2 plex from people who will not be able or willing to pay the bump up in plex price.*
but that all depends on how many people are like me and who buy a plex with Cash from CCP for the express purpose of getting Arrum and how many will bascialy spend ISK to get plex.
*Ie I suspect that rougly 80% of the Plex converted to Arrum will be Ingame plex that already exists in the marketplace, not Plex that is bought specificaly to be turned into goldrum
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.30 23:26:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 30/05/2011 23:28:15
Originally by: James Vayne
òSome people play this game for free. Buying PLEX only to convert to game time.
[..]
So how to address this problem?
Aurum. And lipstick. Sold for Aurum.
Fashion is cool. I'd pay PLEX for Borat fashion! http://tinyurl.com/4y4dnyx
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Seminole Sun
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Posted - 2011.05.31 01:22:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: clixor Exactly, as a matter of fact, i don't see the issue. Just create a new 'item' category in the market window. When you issue shares, an market item with the corp name is added to the overview and the 'items' (=shares) can be sold and bought like any other item.
The tricky part is that this overview will be really full after some time, so the only thing that needs to be added is some sort of option 'recently traded' to filter out the garbage.
The real issue has nothing to do with a crowded overview. The real issue is that they would have to add a new object type whenever a corporation is created. However the table containing object types is basically a static readonly table and is eventually cached locally on each SOL at startup or soon after (and probably even locally on each client). It also is the largest table in the static database. Making that table dynamic could have a very very large impact.
There's no reason that I can see why you wouldn't use a set() for the corporation database structure... that way it's hashed for easy lookup and small so that it can be updated locally in relative real time...
I for one would love to see currency exchanges. Converting away from LP and into "local" currency would be awesome and currency exchanges would be relatively easy to implement. Simply an exchange ratio as a "price" and a quantity... No reason for Aurum not to be eventually in there.
Those people pointing out that Aurum is to be a plex sink are missing the point that aurum purchased (from PCs via an exchange) would still serve as a plex sink because new aurum can't come into the market without it. Of course, that all depends on having a working currency exchange.
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Companion Qube
Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 04:01:00 -
[51]
I apologize if this has been said but my eyes glazed over after reading the first half of the original post.
Aurum is pegged to the dollar. Two plex cost $35 direct from CCP - it's no accident that the aurum conversion rate is 1750 per plex or 100 AUR per USD. Pegging aurum to ISK at a fixed rate would peg isk to the dollar, bad ****ing plan that.
...they see me trollin', they hatin' ♥
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.31 06:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Companion Qube Aurum is pegged to the dollar. Two plex cost $35 direct from CCP - it's no accident that the aurum conversion rate is 1750 per plex or 100 AUR per USD. Pegging aurum to ISK at a fixed rate would peg isk to the dollar, bad ****ing plan that.
You didn't quite think this through properly, did you ? Here's a couple of "assist" questions: 1) How exactly is the value of AUR pegged to the value of ISK ? 2) If the value of PLEX is pegged to the USD, how is that different from the value of AUR being pegged to the USD ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Vierego
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Posted - 2011.05.31 06:45:00 -
[53]
I've said it several times, and I will say it again here.
Aurum is not going to end at decorative clothing. We will eventually see buff items like Quafe Zero.
I buy mission loot in bulk at above buy order prices! (sinq laison) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.31 06:50:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Vierego I've said it several times, and I will say it again here. Aurum is not going to end at decorative clothing. We will eventually see buff items like Quafe Zero.
That is what most people fear and complain about, yes. And it might actually happen eventually. But we're not there yet, and it's not a certainty. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Vierego
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vierego I've said it several times, and I will say it again here. Aurum is not going to end at decorative clothing. We will eventually see buff items like Quafe Zero.
That is what most people fear and complain about, yes. And it might actually happen eventually. But we're not there yet, and it's not a certainty.
Wasn't there a veteran long term player who became a csm who afterwords quit the game shortly after because he was disgusted with the route eve was going? I buy mission loot in bulk at above buy order prices! (sinq laison) |
Companion Qube
Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Akita T You didn't quite think this through properly, did you ? Here's a couple of "assist" questions: 1) How exactly is the value of AUR pegged to the value of ISK ? 2) If the value of PLEX is pegged to the USD, how is that different from the value of AUR being pegged to the USD ?
Are you intentionally trying to be a **** or is this a language barrier thing? AUR is pegged to the USD at a rate of 1 AUR per 0.01 USD according to the "convert PLEX to AUR" rate on Duality today. This is no different than pegging PLEX to the USD at $17.50 per plex. ISK has a variable conversion rate to USD according to the market demand for plex.
Pegging AUR directly to ISK as the OP suggested would remove CCP's ability to compete with black-market isk sellers by fixing the price of AUR, and reducing the demand for plex, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Oh wise forum warrior, what is there to "not think through properly" here?
...they see me trollin', they hatin' ♥
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Companion Qube Pegging AUR directly to ISK as the OP suggested
Ah, you were talking to the OP. Nevermind then, misunderstanding. Carry on. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Companion Qube
Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Companion Qube Pegging AUR directly to ISK as the OP suggested
Ah, you were talking to the OP. Nevermind then, misunderstanding. Carry on.
Heh, yeah, I ninja'd an edit in above - we're saying exactly the same thing.
...they see me trollin', they hatin' ♥
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.05.31 12:05:00 -
[59]
Aurum in this game... who knows what the "currency" will be called in CCP's other games.
Micro transactions... giving players "stuff" to feed our vanity... CCP is simply incorporating that revenue stream into their business...and it's a safe bet this transaction model will be utilized in some similar form in their other games.
Really, can't see what all the fuss is about.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Isaar Kirom EVE is already the most complex game (at least MMO) on the market. All these additions people want are going to require more resources from CCP. Short of raising subscription costs, which is something they don't want to do, the only way to do this is to find ways for people to voluntarily pump more money into their coffers. Thus we get PLEX -> AUR.
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China ? It's not like CCP is running at a zero accounting balance, and it's not like they never hire new staff, and it's not like they're not involved in TWO other completely separate games. Sure, they would like more money, WHO WOULDN'T... but to suggest that finding the manpower to work on some rather basic functionalities that have been neglected so long is simply and only a matter of total income is at best laughable.
I don't think it's so much that they can't or that they don't have people that can work on it. It's a matter of (besides other things, as mentioned, such as a PLEX sink) showing to the stakeholders that these vanity things are something valuable to be working on. The general thought is adding more functionality (or improving functionality) would lead to more or keep subscriptions and increase revenue. How do they know if they should be spending time instead on clothing and such?
If they just introduced them for ISK or something, that proves little. I'd throw away 20 Mil for some monocle or something. But requiring a PLEX makes people put their money where their mouth is. Someone has to lose out on $15 to break that PLEX into AUR. That's $15 more going towards someone's subscription instead of paid for by ISK. CCP can take these conversions directly to the stakeholders for them to approve more resources being focused on these kind of items, and with enough revenue they can even justify hiring a graphics designer specifically for it.
If it was a matter of them not having the money or resources, sure they could raise subscription prices. Some players would prefer that. Many others might quit. With a move like that there's no way they could tell whether an increase in revenue justifies spending resources on developing these vanity items, and they even risk a decrease in revenue.
Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
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Miss Chigger
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
But requiring a PLEX makes people put their money where their mouth is. Someone has to lose out on $15 to break that PLEX into AUR. That's $15 more going towards someone's subscription instead of paid for by ISK.
HEAD EXPLODING
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Miss Chigger
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
But requiring a PLEX makes people put their money where their mouth is. Someone has to lose out on $15 to break that PLEX into AUR. That's $15 more going towards someone's subscription instead of paid for by ISK.
HEAD EXPLODING
You're mocking me now, aren't you. :)
Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:34:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
For now PLEX is "an atom". Bitcoins aren't.
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Companion Qube
Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 18:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, if CCP wants to add more sinks for PLEX, why not just bypass AUR entirely and use PLEX to purchase everything relating to Incarna?
For now PLEX is "an atom". Bitcoins aren't.
I'd like to expand on this a little bit-
Microtransactions work, in general, because the cost is so small that it doesn't (I can't remember the specific economic term here) cause us to pause and say "oh, hmm, that's actually money." It's the same effect that allows any of us to pay $1 for a coffee without thinking about it, but pause and think before spending $10 for a sandwich.
So Brock, having to spend an entire plex at once on a microtransaction would significantly reduce the number of people buying vanity items. Breaking a plex once (knowing you can buy a whole bunch of stuff later) is a clever psychological trick to increase consumption.
blerg.
...they see me trollin', they hatin' ♥
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.01 09:59:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Thomas (each) PLEX has an unique ID number that is permanent for it from the instant of creation to the instant it is consumed.
That's unlikely, considering they can be stacked and sold on the market. Can you find any reference to that anywhere ?
Not specifically for PLEX, but I think something similar was mentioned in the dev blog that dealt with the 32 -> 64 bit (API) ID changes. Paraphrased: "we're now able to assign each item a unique identifier throughout its lifetime".
They at least aim for this in the long run. Besides opening up more possibilities for game additions, this is also something that comes in handy when looking for bots/RMTers. "Money laundering" by shuffling items through various contracts/direct trades/jettisons wouldn't work anymore and could always be traced back to the initial char/account. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ami Nia
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Posted - 2011.06.01 10:29:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween Not specifically for PLEX, but I think something similar was mentioned in the dev blog that dealt with the 32 -> 64 bit (API) ID changes. Paraphrased: "we're now able to assign each item a unique identifier throughout its lifetime".
That refers to unpackaged items. Stacks have an unique id for the whole stack, not for the single items in the stack.
That's, basically, the meaning of packaging: turns a specific object into a stack of (one) generic objects of a given type. Stacking/splitting applies to stacks of objects of the same type, never to single objects (in other words if you see a single object that is packaged, it really is a stack containing just one object that does not have an ID). -- And then there's of course the thing with it getting FPS even slower than the character creator, heating up video cards, taking a noticeable time to fully load ... |
Xintri Ra'Virr
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Posted - 2011.06.01 13:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Akita T AUR is being introduced as a PLEX sink, it's as simple as that. There are far more PLEX being generated than they are being used, PLEX stockpiles are getting high, and CCP doesn't like that. As such, direct AUR purchase with ISK will NEVER be a possibility.
If the vanity item/feature price in AUR is not destroying sufficient PLEX volumes, the AUR prices can be lowered, or the system exchange rate between PLEX and AUR can be boosted until the desirable PLEX destruction rate is achieved.
^This^ That's the point
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Marthen Brennus
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Posted - 2011.06.27 05:14:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Isaar Kirom
Originally by: James Vayne I don't see why you can't just buy AUR directly from $.
I think it's because a large part of this idea is to create a PLEX sink.
This makes sense. CCP has investors, and when CCP are on their feet in the board room being asked for mothly-recurring-revenue projections, it's impossible for them to furnish an answer with any certainty. I'm sure there's a great disparity between the number of PLEX purchased, and the number redeemed. That's creepy to anyone with money invested in CCP. In theory, what happens if everyone uses a PLEX for the next two months instead of paying a subscription fee? *eep*.
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John McCartney
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Posted - 2011.07.04 22:39:00 -
[69]
You can manufacture everything in Eve. So why can't you tailor cloths and do paintjobs? Release it to the players for creativity instead of hiring artists for CCP. Would it be that hard to make a program where players can tailor cloths and paintjobs? What else are you going to rent shops for in station, bars and gambling houses and that's it? What if I want someone to make uniforms special for my corp, or a military uniform specific to my corp? I'm sure Goonsquad would love something like that, seeing someone with a uniform on and with rank designations. Think CCP is going to do all of this for us? Let the free market forces dictate what cloths and such vanity items costs, it has worked well for us so far.
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