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Do webs have a stacking penalty?

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Morepew Lesque Rage Cats Inc	Posted - 2011.05.27 19:45:00 - [1] Quick question, google and such were of no help!
Millie Clode Amarr Insert Cool Name Here	Posted - 2011.05.27 19:45:00 - [2] yes ---------- Who, me?
Morepew Lesque Rage Cats Inc	Posted - 2011.05.27 19:50:00 - [3] any idea how much for 2?
Niveon	Posted - 2011.05.27 20:00:00 - [4] http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+stacking+penalty
Buzzmong Aliastra	Posted - 2011.05.27 20:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Buzzmong on 27/05/2011 20:01:26 The same as any other module that uses the stacking penality. MAGIC. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go!
Jitte	Posted - 2011.05.27 22:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Millie Clode yes Since when is this? I was under the impression they work like this: ship goes 100m/s, 60% strength webs are applied. 1 web: 40m/s (1000.4) 2 webs: 16m/s (400.4) 3 webs: 6.4m/s (16*0.4) So while this is a case of diminishing returns, the stacking penalty does not apply. All webs are 100% effective. Am I right or is my memory acting up?
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.27 22:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Jitte Originally by: Millie Clode yes Since when is this? I was under the impression they work like this: ship goes 100m/s, 60% strength webs are applied. 1 web: 40m/s (1000.4) 2 webs: 16m/s (400.4) 3 webs: 6.4m/s (16*0.4) So while this is a case of diminishing returns, the stacking penalty does not apply. All webs are 100% effective. Am I right or is my memory acting up? While the diminishing returns effect that you describe is true, they also follow the normal module stacking penalties.
Jitte	Posted - 2011.05.28 00:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Tenzeck Edited by: Tenzeck on 27/05/2011 22:38:14 While the diminishing returns effect that you describe is true, they also follow the normal module stacking penalties. Edit for clarification: They don't get penalized for you having more than 1 on your ship, but more than one active on a single target gets the normal stacking penalties. If you were to have 3 webs split up on three targets, they would all be 100% effective (assuming no one else is webbing.) Just confirmed this ingame (for myself mainly I guess), I stand corrected sir
Cosmoes Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.28 05:02:00 - [9] Just curious does anyone think it would be game breaking if they weren't stacking penalized? ------------------- piccy
Demolishar	Posted - 2011.05.28 05:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Cosmoes Just curious does anyone think it would be game breaking if they weren't stacking penalized? It would just be another buff to blobs.

NovaCat13 Gallente Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners	Posted - 2011.05.28 08:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Demolishar Originally by: Cosmoes Just curious does anyone think it would be game breaking if they weren't stacking penalized? It would just be another buff to blobs. And we'd be back to the days of 90% webs.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.05.28 11:06:00 - [12] Overdrives and nanos also have a stacking penalty. Question: If a ship has overdrives fitted and there are webs activated on it, do the webs and overdrives all go on the same stack, or is there one stack for webs and another for the overdrives? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Batelle -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.28 14:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Overdrives and nanos also have a stacking penalty. Question: If a ship has overdrives fitted and there are webs activated on it, do the webs and overdrives all go on the same stack, or is there one stack for webs and another for the overdrives? An interesting question, but I'm sure that positive and negative modifiers to the same attribute are placed in different stacks. In contrast, i heard secondhand that the mwd sig bloom stacks with painters applied to the target. --------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.28 17:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Batelle An interesting question, but I'm sure that positive and negative modifiers to the same attribute are placed in different stacks. In contrast, i heard secondhand that the mwd sig bloom stacks with painters applied to the target. A mod that gives you a bonus does not give stacking penalties with an opponent's module that is meant to give that same stat a negative. I am not sure why you'd say "in contrast" to the sig bloom. These are two different penalty modifiers to the same attribute. One that you chose for yourself as a drawback to a module with a different bonus, and one as electronic warfare from an opponent. As to whether or not the sig bloom "bonuses" are true, I am not sure but would assume so. I never actually looked into that as with the 500% increase to a ship from a MWD, it hardly matters if there is any penalty against a target painter fixed on the same target.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.05.28 23:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Tenzeck A mod that gives you a bonus does not give stacking penalties with an opponent's module that is meant to give that same stat a negative. Remote Sensor Dampeners would like a word with you. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Batelle -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.29 00:24:00 - [16] Edited by: Batelle on 29/05/2011 00:26:25 Edited by: Batelle on 29/05/2011 00:25:48 Originally by: Tenzeck Originally by: Batelle An interesting question, but I'm sure that positive and negative modifiers to the same attribute are placed in different stacks. In contrast, i heard secondhand that the mwd sig bloom stacks with painters applied to the target. I am not sure why you'd say "in contrast" to the sig bloom. These are two different penalty modifiers to the same attribute. One that you chose for yourself as a drawback to a module with a different bonus, and one as electronic warfare from an opponent. I say that because I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter if the effect comes from another ship, the relevant point is that in the sig radius example, both effects are increasing sig, and thus they stack. This is in contrast to my first point. You basically reiterated everything I said. Originally by: Val'Dore Remote Sensor Dampeners would like a word with you. provide more detail. Because I think you're interpreting the phrase "stacking penalties" incorrectly. --------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.29 00:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Batelle I say that because I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter if the effect comes from another ship, the relevant point is that in the sig radius example, both effects are increasing sig, and thus they stack. This is in contrast to my first point. You basically reiterated everything I said. I am not disagreeing with you that it works the way everyone knows it works. There was just nothing contrasting about the fact that modules that are fit to a ship that modify ship stats don't give stacking penalties with ewar targeting that ship. In both examples that's what we're seeing and so I am confused as to why there is any contrast between the same game mechanic being applied in two different cases. The reason I bring it up is that it makes me think you're somehow separating the two situations in your mind when they both fall under the same basic rule for stacking. It's important if your goal is to udnerstand how this all works. My apologies if it seems like I am being needlessly picky.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.05.29 01:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Val'Dore Originally by: Tenzeck A mod that gives you a bonus does not give stacking penalties with an opponent's module that is meant to give that same stat a negative. Remote Sensor Dampeners would like a word with you. They changed that. RSDs and SBs are on different stacks now.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.05.29 04:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Val'Dore Originally by: Tenzeck A mod that gives you a bonus does not give stacking penalties with an opponent's module that is meant to give that same stat a negative. Remote Sensor Dampeners would like a word with you. They changed that. RSDs and SBs are on different stacks now. When did they do that? I guess I haven't seen any Gallente Recons recently. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.05.29 09:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Morepew Lesque Quick question, google and such were of no help! The Definitive guide to Electronic Warfare Aenigma's Stacking Penalty Guide 1 1.000000000000 2 0.869119980800 3 0.570583143511 4 0.282955154023 5 0.105992649743 6 0.029991166533 7 0.006410183118 8 0.001034920483 9 0.000126212683 10 0.000011626754 11 0.000000809046

LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.29 11:02:00 - [21] Question: I have two webs on my ship. Use them both on one ship, thus getting penalized. Does it matter in which order i use them? If i have one 60% web and one 50% web. If i web with 60% web first, will 50% second web only get penalized or does 60% web gets penalized too? Meaning: should i always use 60% first and then 50% web or doesnt matter? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
Wardecced Alt	Posted - 2011.05.29 11:32:00 - [22] This has actually been a really great thread to read through.I'd really love to know the answer to LordInvisible's question as I've wondered the same thing. Another thing I've been wondering . Is it worth going for that 3rd web , or are you better off giving the gang extra help with a Target Painter to help apply damage ? Thanks
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.29 12:10:00 - [23] Originally by: LordInvisible Question: I have two webs on my ship. Use them both on one ship, thus getting penalized. Does it matter in which order i use them? If i have one 60% web and one 50% web. If i web with 60% web first, will 50% second web only get penalized or does 60% web gets penalized too? Meaning: should i always use 60% first and then 50% web or doesnt matter? Another stacking rule is that if you have several mods with different magnitude effects, the largest effect is considered first and the stacking penalties are applied in descending order. For example: You have 3 webs, a 60%, 55% and a 50% reduction web. All three are on one target. The 60% web is considered first and has full effect. The 55% web takes the first stacking penalty down to 87ish% and the 50% web takes the 3rd penalty down to 57ish%. Originally by: Wardecced Alt Another thing I've been wondering . Is it worth going for that 3rd web , or are you better off giving the gang extra help with a Target Painter to help apply damage ? Thanks It really depends on what kind of ships you're flying and what you're shooting at specifically. The best way to figure out what is optimal for you is to use EFT or Pyfa to fit a ship and then use the function that allows you to graph the DPS curve. You can put in a range of distances (for example 0-30km), sig radius, angle and velocity of the target and it will calculate the DPS that your ship does. I am only familiar with how Pyfa does this at the moment. I know that it will calculate the effects of your tracking bonuses for you, but any ewar effects from painters and webs will have to be calculated by you because you must enter the sig radius and velocity of your target.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.05.29 20:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Val'Dore When did they do that? I guess I haven't seen any Gallente Recons recently. February 2006 . Or if you prefer Tuxford on the forums in a thread about damps, here. But somehow the rumor that it still works that way has persisted for... five plus years....
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2011.05.29 22:45:00 - [25] Question: I can has shot web? --- ☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.30 03:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain Pompous Question: I can has shot web? Answer: Orange.
Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:54:00 - [27] Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 30/05/2011 18:57:14 Originally by: LordInvisible Question: I have two webs on my ship. Use them both on one ship, thus getting penalized. Does it matter in which order i use them? If i have one 60% web and one 50% web. If i web with 60% web first, will 50% second web only get penalized or does 60% web gets penalized too? Meaning: should i always use 60% first and then 50% web or doesnt matter? Considering this formula: New_speed = Old_speed * Coefficient and Coefficient = 0.6 * 0.5 * 0.869 = 0.5 * 0.6 * 0.869 It does not matter which one is first except for the short amount of time you need to activate the second one.
NoNah	Posted - 2011.05.30 19:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Gaius BaItar Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 30/05/2011 19:11:18 Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 30/05/2011 19:02:41 Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 30/05/2011 18:57:14 Originally by: LordInvisible Question: I have two webs on my ship. Use them both on one ship, thus getting penalized. Does it matter in which order i use them? If i have one 60% web and one 50% web. If i web with 60% web first, will 50% second web only get penalized or does 60% web gets penalized too? Meaning: should i always use 60% first and then 50% web or doesnt matter? Considering this formula: New_speed = Old_speed * Coefficient and Coefficient = (1-0.6) * (1-0.50.869) = 0.2262 for first web 60% and second 50% Coefficent = (1-0.5) (1-0.6*0.869) = 0.2393 for first web 50% and second 60%. It actually does matter! 0.2262 reduction is better than 0.2392, so 60% web first and 50% second web is the answer. Surprizing result... Only problem is, it doesn't work like that. Webs are applied in order of strength(like all stacking penalties). If you have a meta 14 weapon upgrade and a meta 2, the meta 14 will always have full strength and the meta 2 be penalized before any meta 1, but after any meta 3 or above.(pretending there's a strict relation between performance and meta level) Parrots, commence! Postcount: 884000
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.30 21:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Gaius BaItar Considering this formula: New_speed = Old_speed * Coefficient and Coefficient = (1-0.6) * (1-0.50.869) = 0.2262 for first web 60% and second 50% Coefficent = (1-0.5) (1-0.6*0.869) = 0.2393 for first web 50% and second 60%. It actually does matter! The way it actually works was already explained a few posts above yours. Obviously it would matter if the larger magnitude effect was taking the larger penalty. You don't need to work out the math to see that. EVE's stacking rules sort by magnitude before applying the stacking penalties no matter what order you apply them in. So what you are explaining isn't how EVE works.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.05.31 01:27:00 - [30] Originally by: LordInvisible Question: I have two webs on my ship. Use them both on one ship, thus getting penalized. Does it matter in which order i use them? If i have one 60% web and one 50% web. If i web with 60% web first, will 50% second web only get penalized or does 60% web gets penalized too? Meaning: should i always use 60% first and then 50% web or doesnt matter? Order doesn't matter. The biggest bonus gets no penalty. The 2nd biggest bonus gets the smallest penalty. The third biggest bonus get the next smallest penalty, and so forth. There's no reason to assume stacking penalized penalties don't work the same way. -- Salpad

Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2011.05.31 06:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Tenzeck EVE's stacking rules sort by magnitude before applying the stacking penalties no matter what order you apply them in. So what you are explaining isn't how EVE works. Thanks. I stand corrected.
Yurij Sobeit	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:35:00 - [32] Originally by: Tau Cabalander The Definitive guide to Electronic Warfare Good thing it was a "definitive" guide, because it's 4 years old... Quote from the "web" part : Quote: Examples: Two 90% Webifiers get applied to a ship moving at 2000 m/s. Speed of the ship after being dualwebbed: 2000 * (1-0.9) * (1-0.9*0.87) = 43.3m/s While this is fairly trivial, pay close attention to where exactly the stacking penalty gets applied. Woah, these must be expensive deadspace webs. So OP, next time you have a question, google the answer, find an old guide, read all patch notes since 2003, compile, re-write the guide and post it please.


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