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Bendiko
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:09:00 -
[1]
The reason why the Tempest suck so badly is that it isnt specialized in anything. Its half a shield tanker and half an armor tanker. It has average cpu and power, and it doesnt have many turret or launcher hardpoints. Its just average in everything. The same goes for the Megathron.
The thing is to make every races good in theyr specialitys like ccp have done with Amarr and Caldari. And since the Minmatars are known for theyr speed, boosting it a bit would help. 150% is just my guess on a valu which seams fair. Maybe a 30% each skill level, or a combination could work.
Anyone agree with me? |
EtherealPain
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:15:00 -
[2]
"anyone agree with me?"
uhhhh................... the suger coated version would be: No. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:18:00 -
[3]
The only thing wrong with the tempest is that it hasnt shaken the crappy projectile stigma.
The tempest armor tanks fine. Maybe not as good as an apoc, but what does? And shield tanking sucks no matter what ship you put it on.
And what good would making it so much faster do? All that's going to do is increase your transversal and make your guns not hit.
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It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
EtherealPain
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:20:00 -
[4]
that ^^^^^ is what i was to lazy to type out, but sheild tanking isnt THAT bad. you just have to have a ship thats made for it *cough* Jaguar *cough cough*
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I saw a hobo once, he was holding a sign that said: Parents killed by ninjas, need money for samurai lessons.
i gave him everything i had.... i hope he killed those damn ninjas |
Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:26:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Buraken v2 on 14/02/2005 22:26:04
.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:26:00 -
[6]
ehm... u whant it to go faster then frigs but slower then interceptors?
makes sence to me! 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:32:00 -
[7]
I agree completely.
Seriously.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:37:00 -
[8]
even with 150% speed boost it would still move like crap, you can test it by slapping 1 AB on it. The only advantage you'd get is faster pick up for loot cans
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.02.14 22:53:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Kashre
...
And what good would making it so much faster do? All that's going to do is increase your transversal and make your guns not hit.
Bingo. This is the minmatar paradox. I think CCP failed to consider this when they made minmatar the fastest ships. If you own ship speed did not affect your tracking, then minmatar would be about 10-20% better.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2005.02.14 23:07:00 -
[10]
Speed on the Tempest is fine. Get yourself a speed implant, train navigationt o 5, and you definitely see an improvement.
Quote:
The tempest armor tanks fine. Maybe not as good as an apoc, but what does? And shield tanking sucks no matter what ship you put it on.
Technically, if you subtract out the number of slots that armor tanking takes (5; 3 hardeners, 2 large repairers), that leaves the Tempest with 1 low slot and the Apoc with 2 low slots. Since the Tempest has 1 more med slot than an Apoc (5 vs 4), add the remaining mid and low's together = 6.
Assume you are putting nothing but cap recharger 2's in the remaining med slots and cap relays in the remaining low slots. That works out to be 6 slots full of 20% cap recharging modules.
The only thing that makes the Apoc a better armor tanker than a Tempest is the Amarr battleship cap bonus. So you are right, nothing else armor tanks as good as an Apoc, but the Tempest comes close.
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Robberts
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Posted - 2005.02.14 23:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
The only thing that makes the Apoc a better armor tanker than a Tempest is the Amarr battleship cap bonus. So you are right, nothing else armor tanks as good as an Apoc, but the Tempest comes close.
Nope, the Apoc not only has cap bonus, its cap is far better without the bonus. It also has more armor HP, but I suppose that just ammounts to more time to run if ya need it. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2005.02.14 23:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Originally by: Kashre
...
And what good would making it so much faster do? All that's going to do is increase your transversal and make your guns not hit.
Bingo. This is the minmatar paradox. I think CCP failed to consider this when they made minmatar the fastest ships. If you own ship speed did not affect your tracking, then minmatar would be about 10-20% better.
I dont think its such a bad thing, tbh.
A> autocannons now have roughly the same tracking as blasters. Still not quite as accurate because they have more falloff and less opt than blasters, but not bad. Besides, most tactics I know of for autocannons (or blasters) involve getting into range asap, web/scramming the target, then sitting there and pounding on it until it dies. At the point where the battle will be decided speed vs tracking doesnt reall come into it(since you should be at rest relative to your webbed target) and the high natural speed (and natually fast lock times) help to get there in the first point.
B> I have never, ever found speed to be a limiting factor for 1400s in *PvP* because only an idiot doesnt bring some interceptors with webs and scramblers along to the battle when hes potting ships at 50km. A webbed BS (or even cruisers) at 50km is not hard to hit, even with the arthritic tracking of large artillery. PvE is different, but I figure thats why minmatar battleships are the only ones that can do a 50/50 gun/missile setup. Probably another story with frigates and cruisers, but I have not yet gotten into a PvP fight in a frig with 280s since the patch so I cant say.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
qyros
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Posted - 2005.02.15 00:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: qyros on 15/02/2005 00:55:25
Minmatar ships are specialized in a way, but their strength doesnŠt help them because it doesnŠt make enough difference.
Speed helps to stay at range and to approach quickly to get into range (e.g. tempest, rupture long range and typhoon, stabber short range).
The tempest should do 500m/s with a 100mn ab II and the typhoon 600m/s. This could be done by reducing mass and or increasing the base speed.
But to keep the transversal low and compensate the low tracking, the minmatar ships need more agility.
If your guns canŠt track, your ship has to do that by turning faster than your target.
The difference of the tracking between 425mm rails and 1400mm isnŠt that much.
So the ships using rails need more agility too, while the ships with the most armor and the high tracking guns should be the least agile.
On top of that a even lower sig radius can give minmatar ships ships more survivability, considering their lower armor and shield.
Minmatar ships are already designed like this. But the advantages are not big enough to be usefull.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.02.15 02:08:00 -
[14]
It just needs a little more CPU and powergrid, and shield tanking needs to be made more cap efficient.
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Griffin Smith
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Posted - 2005.02.15 05:16:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Griffin Smith on 15/02/2005 05:18:11
most of the bs bonuses r 5% +10%, tempest is 5% + 5% so make it 5% + 10% = 10% damage multiplyer that would make it a long range heavy hitter which is what its sposed to be!!
and we defenatly need longer jump in ranges like 80km and 100km added to warp in range
All that is truely urs, is whats in ur head. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.02.15 05:50:00 -
[16]
KASHRE I DEMAND YOU STOP MAKING SENSE, DAMN MINMATURD ;/
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Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
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