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Lydia Rhyme
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Posted - 2011.06.02 21:44:00 -
[1]
This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents. Those suckers make billions of LPs driving the cost of lp down. Being unscannable is just wrong. F... balance it. there is a reason for onboard scanner, there is a reason for probe filter. the whole point of low sec is being alert at all times.
And cut the crap on catching them at gates and at station. there are instant warps for that and cloaking device + mwd, or simple overt ops subsystem.
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Nemo deBlanc
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Posted - 2011.06.02 21:51:00 -
[2]
So...you complain that low sec should be brutally high risk, because it's hurting your high sec carebearing income via reduced LP values?
Mhmm...
I agree it needs a look, but so does pretty much every other aspect of low sec. I really hope they look at the issue as a whole before making some band-aid nerf "solution" to unprobeable ships.
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DeODokktor
Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2011.06.02 22:00:00 -
[3]
No, the complain is that they cant salvage these ships ;P.... Most MissionGankers are just going after the guys running the missions..
In the past I would warp to l4 missions, drop drones, and then go ask another agent for another mission, the gankers would kill everything in my mission waiting for me to show.... Ahhh the days.... ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! ! |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.02 22:47:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DeODokktor No, the complain is that they cant salvage these ships ;P.... Most MissionGankers are just going after the guys running the missions..
In the past I would warp to l4 missions, drop drones, and then go ask another agent for another mission, the gankers would kill everything in my mission waiting for me to show.... Ahhh the days....
Lulz
It's actually a whine about noobs wasting a lot of time scanning only to realize its unprobeable. The tears and rage alone should be ample justification to keep unscannables as is. Obviously anything unscannable is nowhere close to be able to tank lvl5s, the moronic LP whine is just camouflage for the scanning whine.
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Lydia Rhyme
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:08:00 -
[5]
Moronic Goose, hahaha u make me laugh hard. U have now idea how level 5 missions are run and yet u are making comments. For your information even stealth bomber can run level 5. There is such thing as google my friend.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme Moronic Goose, hahaha u make me laugh hard. U have now idea how level 5 missions are run and yet u are making comments. For your information even stealth bomber can run level 5. There is such thing as google my friend.
You're embarrassing yourself.
Also: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1521348&page=1#28
Working as intended. Keep entertaining us.
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Nemo deBlanc
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:54:00 -
[7]
You can run 5's while unprobeable. But that doesn't change anything.
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.03 00:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lady Aja on 03/06/2011 00:58:10 anyone heard of probing alts?
use the soe probing inplants and what ever else you can get hold of to increase your scannign str.
heck i will be working on that my self soon.
also you may want to catch them on gates. not EVERY mission is in system.
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.03 01:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 03/06/2011 01:06:30
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents. Those suckers make billions of LPs driving the cost of lp down. Being unscannable is just wrong. F... balance it. there is a reason for onboard scanner, there is a reason for probe filter. the whole point of low sec is being alert at all times.
And cut the crap on catching them at gates and at station. there are instant warps for that and cloaking device + mwd, or simple overt ops subsystem.
Get down off your soapbox and take a deep breath for chrissakes. Devs have already made known their intention to nerf unprobeables.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509071&page=22#653
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
DHuncan
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Posted - 2011.06.03 01:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents. Those suckers make billions of LPs driving the cost of lp down. Being unscannable is just wrong. F... balance it. there is a reason for onboard scanner, there is a reason for probe filter. the whole point of low sec is being alert at all times.
And cut the crap on catching them at gates and at station. there are instant warps for that and cloaking device + mwd, or simple overt ops subsystem.
Stop whining, be a man, man.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.03 08:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents. Those suckers make billions of LPs driving the cost of lp down. Being unscannable is just wrong. F... balance it. there is a reason for onboard scanner, there is a reason for probe filter. the whole point of low sec is being alert at all times.
And cut the crap on catching them at gates and at station. there are instant warps for that and cloaking device + mwd, or simple overt ops subsystem.
Meh how much more do they get for their missions compared to the abundance of L4 Q20 agents in 0.5 systems that we have now? If they fly in 0.0 they need an interdiction nullifier which cripples their DPS so missions take longer. Gimping your tank for ECCM is still more risky, in lowsec you can still be smartbombed, especially without any shield.
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Rina Wright
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Posted - 2011.06.03 14:29:00 -
[12]
woohooo! indeed looks like unscannable tengus will get nerfed. That will be the nicest present from CCP. No more relaxing mission running with unscannable tengu and unscannable logistics support!!! Fear me mission runners around Otsasai!!!
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Ch'ianna
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Posted - 2011.06.03 14:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lady Aja Edited by: Lady Aja on 03/06/2011 00:58:10 anyone heard of probing alts?
use the soe probing inplants and what ever else you can get hold of to increase your scannign str.
heck i will be working on that my self soon.
also you may want to catch them on gates. not EVERY mission is in system.
I'm fairly sure that won't work, it's possible, afaik to make a T3 completely unprobable, no matter what skills are used to do the probing.
With that said, I see it as balance lol. You get your 'unkillable' tengu in highsec, so do the same if you're so bothered. If it's just that you can't make as much money in highsec as in lowsec, well...duh. Go to Lowsec if it's bothering you that much.
Also, think outside the box ffs. My corp has found many 'unprobeable' T3's (in their Safespots) with a dramiel and time and patience...
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.03 21:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ch'ianna
Originally by: Lady Aja Edited by: Lady Aja on 03/06/2011 00:58:10 anyone heard of probing alts?
use the soe probing inplants and what ever else you can get hold of to increase your scannign str.
heck i will be working on that my self soon.
also you may want to catch them on gates. not EVERY mission is in system.
I'm fairly sure that won't work, it's possible, afaik to make a T3 completely unprobable, no matter what skills are used to do the probing.
With that said, I see it as balance lol. You get your 'unkillable' tengu in highsec, so do the same if you're so bothered. If it's just that you can't make as much money in highsec as in lowsec, well...duh. Go to Lowsec if it's bothering you that much.
Also, think outside the box ffs. My corp has found many 'unprobeable' T3's (in their Safespots) with a dramiel and time and patience...
Not a very good safe spot is it?
if they wish to sit a few dozen thousand km from an object then they are stupid.
My safe spots are offgrid and i dont use unprobable.
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Irulan Corinno
Caldari 714th SQN - Snowflakes
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Posted - 2011.06.03 21:34:00 -
[15]
@Op what are you talking about? There's dozens of ships that can be made unscannable, do you have some personal issues with Tengus?
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Voith
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Posted - 2011.06.03 21:39:00 -
[16]
You know something is overpowered when it makes Low-Sec useful.
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Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
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Posted - 2011.06.03 22:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Voith You know something is overpowered when it makes Low-Sec useful.
This
Originally by: Goose99 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1521348&page=1#28
And this ---
≡√≡ Don't harsh my mellow |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.03 22:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents. Those suckers make billions of LPs driving the cost of lp down. Being unscannable is just wrong. F... balance it. there is a reason for onboard scanner, there is a reason for probe filter. the whole point of low sec is being alert at all times.
And cut the crap on catching them at gates and at station. there are instant warps for that and cloaking device + mwd, or simple overt ops subsystem.
There was a thread about this yesterday where the OP said what you are saying, and then a dev came in and explained the mechanics of eve and made them go away.
I was kind of hoping you would google that thread and then also go away, because as my good friend James brown once told me, "You rockin loud but you aint sayin nothin". . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.04 03:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 04/06/2011 03:28:57
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Ch'ianna
Originally by: Lady Aja Edited by: Lady Aja on 03/06/2011 00:58:10 anyone heard of probing alts?
use the soe probing inplants and what ever else you can get hold of to increase your scannign str.
heck i will be working on that my self soon.
also you may want to catch them on gates. not EVERY mission is in system.
I'm fairly sure that won't work, it's possible, afaik to make a T3 completely unprobable, no matter what skills are used to do the probing.
With that said, I see it as balance lol. You get your 'unkillable' tengu in highsec, so do the same if you're so bothered. If it's just that you can't make as much money in highsec as in lowsec, well...duh. Go to Lowsec if it's bothering you that much.
Also, think outside the box ffs. My corp has found many 'unprobeable' T3's (in their Safespots) with a dramiel and time and patience...
Not a very good safe spot is it?
if they wish to sit a few dozen thousand km from an object then they are stupid.
My safe spots are offgrid and i dont use unprobable.
I don't think you get it, the target doesn't need to be anywhere particularly near an object. All you need to find an unprobeable setup thats AFK safe-spotted is a lot of trial and error using the directional scanner and a very fast ship.
Hint: it takes a fair bit of time and a lot of bookmarks.
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Thurken
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Posted - 2011.06.04 07:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 04/06/2011 03:28:57
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Ch'ianna
Originally by: Lady Aja Edited by: Lady Aja on 03/06/2011 00:58:10 anyone heard of probing alts?
use the soe probing inplants and what ever else you can get hold of to increase your scannign str.
heck i will be working on that my self soon.
also you may want to catch them on gates. not EVERY mission is in system.
I'm fairly sure that won't work, it's possible, afaik to make a T3 completely unprobable, no matter what skills are used to do the probing.
With that said, I see it as balance lol. You get your 'unkillable' tengu in highsec, so do the same if you're so bothered. If it's just that you can't make as much money in highsec as in lowsec, well...duh. Go to Lowsec if it's bothering you that much.
Also, think outside the box ffs. My corp has found many 'unprobeable' T3's (in their Safespots) with a dramiel and time and patience...
Not a very good safe spot is it?
if they wish to sit a few dozen thousand km from an object then they are stupid.
My safe spots are offgrid and i dont use unprobable.
I don't think you get it, the target doesn't need to be anywhere particularly near an object. All you need to find an unprobeable setup thats AFK safe-spotted is a lot of trial and error using the directional scanner and a very fast ship.
Hint: it takes a fair bit of time and a lot of bookmarks.
So how do you fly several au, if the target is far away from the system disc axis with to warpable objects?. Any ship is far too slow. Only trick I see is to logout and hoping your ships warps 1 mio km away into the right direction make bookmark and so on...... Tooks hours eh? Since there is no way to create bookmarks with entering coordinates or similar. Imo only reconships should be able to be unprobable.But than no abilty to boost a fleet with links, no cyno or bubble throwing. Only recon abilities and cargo can only hold probes. A Perfect role.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.04 13:53:00 -
[21]
anyway here it is
Quote:
CCP Dropbear
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:17:00 - [28] - Quote Report I'm confused.
An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions.
Tell me what I'm missing here:
(All?*) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's.
* This may be the part I'm missing...
In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable).
That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units).
So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently?
Answer me that batman. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Kerppe Krulli
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Posted - 2011.06.04 14:29:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kerppe Krulli on 04/06/2011 14:30:37 This topic is strangely exactly similar to something posted in general already. Someone alt posting their nerf demands?
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Kno Bodeesbitch
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Posted - 2011.06.04 14:53:00 -
[23]
Oh Boy, My "Teary-eyed, Clueless Whiner Alert" just went off and I got here as soon as I could. I hope I am not too late!
Let me see if I have this correct. The OP is complaining that there are people in low-sec? That's strange...
Oh! I see he is complaining that there are people in low sec that he can't gank with a minimum of effort. Here is a thought, you have 2 or maybe 3 shots at these guys.
1-put together an insta-lock gate camp 2-catch them leaving a station (maybe they don't have an instant undock) 3-hope they make a mistake
None are easy or even predictable but at least you have a chance. If they stay in hi-sec you have NO chance of killing them
Lazy, whiney, pirate tears best tears?
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Thurken So how do you fly several au, if the target is far away from the system disc axis with to warpable objects?. Any ship is far too slow. Only trick I see is to logout and hoping your ships warps 1 mio km away into the right direction make bookmark and so on...... Tooks hours eh? Since there is no way to create bookmarks with entering coordinates or similar. Imo only reconships should be able to be unprobable.But than no abilty to boost a fleet with links, no cyno or bubble throwing. Only recon abilities and cargo can only hold probes. A Perfect role.
I guess I'll spell it out. Not like I fly unprobeable ships anyhow, and as I linked earlier, it looks like the Devs are planning on nerfing them anyhow.
Get the target on directional scanner. Warp to an object so that the target is roughly between two warpable objects. Drop bookmarks in mid warp near the target. Warp to bookmark. Rinse, repeat. You might have to create other bookmarks around the target in system so that you have a set of warpable points if it's a safespot that isn't directly between two warpable objects (ie if the owner put any effort into the safespot).
When you finally land on grid with the target, you burn towards as fast as you can and hope you get there before the pilot notices you. In general, if he's been sitting still long enough for you to do all this, he's probably AFK.
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Originally by: Thurken So how do you fly several au, if the target is far away from the system disc axis with to warpable objects?. Any ship is far too slow. Only trick I see is to logout and hoping your ships warps 1 mio km away into the right direction make bookmark and so on...... Tooks hours eh? Since there is no way to create bookmarks with entering coordinates or similar. Imo only reconships should be able to be unprobable.But than no abilty to boost a fleet with links, no cyno or bubble throwing. Only recon abilities and cargo can only hold probes. A Perfect role.
I guess I'll spell it out. Not like I fly unprobeable ships anyhow, and as I linked earlier, it looks like the Devs are planning on nerfing them anyhow.
Get the target on directional scanner. Warp to an object so that the target is roughly between two warpable objects. Drop bookmarks in mid warp near the target. Warp to bookmark. Rinse, repeat. You might have to create other bookmarks around the target in system so that you have a set of warpable points if it's a safespot that isn't directly between two warpable objects (ie if the owner put any effort into the safespot).
When you finally land on grid with the target, you burn towards as fast as you can and hope you get there before the pilot notices you. In general, if he's been sitting still long enough for you to do all this, he's probably AFK.
Don't waste your breath. You think the lazy yerr pirates who would whine in the first place would put up this much effort?
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:38:00 -
[26]
No, what is frikkin' ridiculous, is that CCP always caters to the offenders. Whenever someone has painstakingly devised, and trained for a viable tactic to defend him or herself against an intruding aggressor, CCP deems it necessary to nerf that defence.
CCP, stop always giving in to pirate demands, and honor the sandbox model for a change! --
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.06.04 19:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ranka Mei CCP, stop always giving in to pirate demands, and honor the sandbox model for a change!
Wow. You have NO IDEA how eve started, do you? The 'sandbox' has been steadily nerfed towards carebears since 2003... not the other way around.
To CCP dropbox and all others:
I run level 5's in an unprobable Tengu. You really think a faction shield boost, speed-tanking tengu can't? As for your comment on cap use: cap booster. I've not personally tried it, but a corp mate runs the missions in their entirety, using a second unprobable to throw bonuses ...
Sadly the dev's don't know their own game. You aren't in the mission space killing everything like intended, you're blitzing them for the LP. Hense OP saying "they're deflating LP."
Don't believe me? Just go ****ing look in the systems sometime.
For the very same reason, you can run them in a stealth bomber. What aren't the rest of you lot getting?
I run level 5's and I still maintain that the unprobable fit needs a giant ****ing swing of the nerfbat. Seems that some devs agree, at least.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.04 20:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Sadly the dev's don't know their own game. You aren't in the mission space killing everything like intended, you're blitzing them for the LP. Hense OP saying "they're deflating LP."
Then remove the ability to blitz missions. Problem solved.
Quote: I run level 5's and I still maintain that the unprobable fit needs a giant ****ing swing of the nerfbat.
And why is that? What is it about people being able to fit themselves defensively that aggrevates people like you so much? Unfair, you say? Screw that! Missioners aren't fitted for PvP! They're doing their particular sandbox thingy. What needs a giant ****ing swing of the nerfbat is people being allowed to invade missions in the first place. Or CONCORD subsidized highsec suicide ganking.
Quote: Seems that some devs agree, at least.
Yeah, well, sadly the dev's don't know their own game, remember? --
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Melkath Bandrom
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.04 21:40:00 -
[29]
Seems to me that if you can't probe down the Tengu itself, then you can probe down the combat site he is in. One way or another, you can get to the ship to initiate combat. If the site is empty when you get there then such is your luck. I think you just have to be SMARTER then then Tengu pilot. If you wanna kill it, you have to work for that kill... NO instant gratification here such as Eve Online is famous for.
I'm willing to bet thats all the OP and those who side with him want. Kills with no work involved. HTFU.
An additional personal opinion here:
An unprobable Tengu is absolutely no different then an AFK cloaker in 0.0 space except that the Tengu pilot probably isnt AFK. The result is the same. Everyone wants to find the AFK cloaky and kill it but CCP won't nerf it, Everyone wants to find an unprobable Tengu and kill it but CCP won't nerf it...
If people want CCP to nerf unprobabale ships then CCP should also nerf AFK cloaky pilots. People want balance, then there should be balance.
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Anya Ohaya
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Posted - 2011.06.05 10:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lydia Rhyme This freaking ridiculous. There are dozens of freaking unscannable tengus flying around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula. Those are the systems that have plenty of level 5 agents.
Unscannable tengus that can run L5? Yeah right.
Not every tengu is unscanable.
Not every unscannable ship is a tengu - all t3, and probably all frigates can be made unscannable.
Nerf passive shields if you want to nerf solo L5 mission runners.
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