This is dumb.

These are the trade offs. You want to pvp with expensive ****? You risk losing said ****.

No, the point is that people don't PVP because it means a loss in their precious training time.

People who are that concerned about maxing their training time aren't likely to be PVPing anyway.

People who are that concerned about maxing their training time aren't likely to be PVPing anyway.

Dont people in low-sec have signifcantly better options of earning isk as well?

They're just less likely to PvP, but that doesn't mean CCP shouldn't try to get them to take part in PvP when the opportunity is presented. What all these different implant ideas try to do is allow people to decide the level of risk they take to PvP. That is basically it. Currently you can't make that choice in the short term as far as all implants are concerned and gaining that limited flexibility is put behind a barrier instead of made readily available to all players. The choices left for the people interested in PvP are to put PvP above most implant benefits or not utilize such implants, to soak the extra expense of losing expensive implants, that often offer zero combat benefit for your ship/fit, or being unwilling to pay that extra cost and not PvP at all that time. The choice should be to just decide what you are willing to risk and then allowing players to do that with as few restrictions as possible. Not everyone will choose to PvP, but the added flexibility and lowered barriers will mean more people are going to PvP when the situation presents itself and that is good.

The real question you need to ask is there anything wrong with allowing people to choose their risk level on the short term? I don't see any real downsides to allowing it. The game allows it in other instances and practically no one is complaining about it. To better illustrate the problem you can think of it like ship fitting. Is it better to allow people to change fits/ships as they see necessary or do you force a 24 hour timer between non-destructive fitting/ship changes? Using a long timer between changes forces people to choose fits geared towards their main activity within that timeframe and make choosing your fit/ship have more consequense, but it will also act as an unnecessary barrier for people to take part in any side activity of what that ship/fit specializes in.

My view is, that this pointless barrier should have never been erected in the first place and people should always get to choose their level of risk when flying their spaceships. Jump clones helped with it in a limited way, but the 24 hour timer doesn't work well. I suspect the current jump clone timers were initially put in because of the instant teleporting function of jump clones, since it makes sense to limit such mode of travel. With the wide selection of role specific expensive implant sets the issue with being married to a set of implants has only gotten worse over the years. This issue needs to be fixed permanently one way or another. The precise method is somewhat irrelevant, but it needs to put the choice of what people want to risk fully in the hands of the players and lower the barrier to take part in PvP as much as possible. If you can think of any downsides to allowing this, I'd like to hear it.

Uh, he mentioned jump clones. Did you actually read the post you were replying to?

I'd say remove the things entirely.

Their main reason of existence seems to be rewarding avoidance of risk.

You get the most benefit from them if you don't take any sort of risk.

Contrary to just about everything else in the game.
You take a mining barge into low-sec or null-sec and you're rewarded with a greater variety and quantity of ore.
You take a missioning ship into low-sec or null-sec and you're rewarded with higher LP payouts.
You take a ratting ship into a belt in low-sec or null-sec and you're rewarded with higher bounty rats.
You place a POS in low-sec or null-sec and you're rewarded with many more options in modules to anchor.

Other implants give additional benefits in space with higher risk by increasing your chances of coming out on top. Learning implants do no such thing.

Even if the rewards don't measure up to the additional risk taken in some cases, there still is an increase in reward. Risks may multiply by a factor of hundreds whilst rewards barely increase at all, point is that with just about every single item players can use there is a reward when risking it, however minor it may be.

I've troubling thinking of any other item that can be purchased which gives the greatest possible benefit by never undocking.

I'd say learning implants are clearly against the spirit of EvE.

How about pirate implants which are, for the most part PVP implants?

To the OP, proposal is horrible. We need to be able to have more than 5 jump clones, and mora than 1 in any station. That would solve the problem, and add additional benefit of being able to use more implant sets.

And then when you jump back to the clone with implants? What then?

Those were explicitly excluded from the proposal.


Why is that a better solution? In fact, how does that solve the identified problem?

The problem isn't mine, but it is a common psychological problem and in the end it is true that the risk vs. reward is skewed here. Cpt Gobla explained it better than I could.

Look ppl PVP in T3 and lose skillpoints. You dont wanna lose it, dont PVP in T3.

Ppl PVP in cheap clones, and dont gain SP at the rate they would with expensive clone. If you dont want that, dont PVP at all!

Not comparable. The risk comes with the reward of PVPing in a T3.


Nullsec PVPing in a clone with expensive learning implants has the exact same reward as someone with the same implants staying docked all the time, yet the risk is far greater. This is against the spirit of the game.

There's not really any significant difference from your proposal and what we have now.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to unplug these implants when I go out on a roam? The direct result of this would be more people going out on roams because they aren't stuck in clones for 24 hours that they don't want to lose.

You have loss in this game. When you PVP you must accept there can be loss. Essentially you want PVP w/o loss (as your null corp/alliance have reimbursement, so you dont ever need to farm isk to PVP).

Pls, just find a game where PVP have acceptable loss to you. Your proposal would give ONLY YOU cost fre PVP w/o loss (and for other nullsec dwellers in sov). How about small gangs in lowsec or npc-null which cant reimburse losses?

So its bad proposal, no matter how we look at it.

...

Skills are not a commodity, but just a number on the screen, unless you wish to sell the char.
Once you understand that, you'll know why ppl welp T3s no matter whats the loss. Point of the game is having fun, not looking skillpoint number getting bigger.

And if you skill a char to sell later, why then you PVP in it?

Phantasm: yes I know null alliances/corps have their list of ships and fits they replace, and wont replace something like that.

Just make them have no or a negative effect in hisec that way you get far more reward for your risk in using them ;)

You're subject to PVP in highsec too.

Yeah, and unless you're afk or a mouthbreathing idiot that PVP isn't going to lead to a pod loss.
Same with lowsec.

You're subject to PVP in highsec too.

or you can just be bubbled in lowsec by a hictor

Other than the fact the bubbles are banned in empire space

Reread pls... I was talking about lowsec. so its not "same in lowsec" as he told. BTW you have tech, why not bother your CEO to give you some implant reimbursement from tech isk?

Reread pls... I was talking about lowsec. so its not "same in lowsec" as he told. BTW you have tech, why not bother your CEO to give you some implant reimbursement from tech isk?

[quote=Nestara Aldent]
Yeah, and unless you're afk or a mouthbreathing idiot that PVP isn't going to lead to a pod loss.
Same with lowsec.

You'll be ignored from now on.

You can be hit by a lag, or you can just be bubbled in lowsec by a hictor, or smartbombed.

Other than the fact the bubbles are banned in empire space

Low sec is empire space there are even areas of null sec that are empire space

....

Yeah okay, says the guy who doesn't realize hictors can't make bubbles in lowsec.

Well if you have told it like that, I wouldnt interpret it as flame attempt.

Sorry for not anticipating your ignorance of interdiction mechanics?

Yeah, and unless you're afk or a mouthbreathing idiot that PVP isn't going to lead to a pod loss.
Same with lowsec.

Skills are not a commodity, but just a number on the screen, unless you wish to sell the char.
Once you understand that, you'll know why ppl welp T3s no matter whats the loss. Point of the game is having fun, not looking skillpoint number getting bigger.

And if you skill a char to sell later, why then you PVP in it?

Phantasm: yes I know null alliances/corps have their list of ships and fits they replace, and wont replace something like that.

Ok if its so risky to use them in 0.0 then allow bubbles in lowsec and make learning implants illegal to use in highsec.
See more risk to balance it out :D