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Helmut 314	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:50:00 - [1] Well, after reading a post by Oveur where he hints that CCPHammer is working on balancing pulselasers I have one request : please be gentle. CCPHammer did a bang-up job on the projectiles it seems, but I am worried about the pulselasers considering the amazing animosity shown by some people against for instance the MegaPulse. I fell that its important to tread gently considering that so many people have specialized themselves towards Pulse lasers. Please dont turn this into another "Nerf the MegaPulse" thread. ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:53:00 - [2] Well considering that the projectile boosts were actually fairly modest and not overdone by any means, I'm sure they won't 'overdo' the megapulse, they very well might underdo it though.
Dred 'Morte	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:54:00 - [3] Lasers are just fine, and projectilles are fine too, they just need a lot more tactic than lasers, thats not a problem IMHO. Hybrids need love though, either a bit more dmg or a bit less cap (perhaps a lot less in large blasters). Dont nerf pulse lasers... please.
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:54:00 - [4] Quote: considering that so many people have specialized themselves towards Pulse lasers. Such a strong argument you have there. Pain is meant to be felt
Lallante	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:54:00 - [5] Itll be range not dmg that is nerfed. Its not going to kill them Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Bitto Fluff	Posted - 2005.02.15 12:58:00 - [6] The range on the mega pulses may be large but they can only ever cause em and thermal damage - surely a disadvantage to counter the range advantages.
Damajink	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:03:00 - [7] CCPHammer is Minmatar. I think that says it all
Watanabe	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:05:00 - [8] Hammer ftw, down with no-skills-gankageddon imps.
meowcat	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:06:00 - [9] \o/ for making amarr (and caldari next) almost as rubbish as gallente ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Helmut 314	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Quote: considering that so many people have specialized themselves towards Pulse lasers. Such a strong argument you have there. Oh, I agree ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Bitto Fluff The range on the mega pulses may be large but they can only ever cause em and thermal damage - surely a disadvantage to counter the range advantages. Pain is meant to be felt
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:10:00 - [12] Okay so this is the problem. close range = high dmg. and thats fine. long range = less/low dmg. and thats also fine. range/dmg goes like this: (best race at these ranges). long-------------------->short minm->Amarr->Caldari->Gallante. And that, yet again is fine. The problem is that Amarr ships do more dmg at close than gallante, but can shoot good dmg all the way upto semi long range (60kms). And the Tachs can shoot further and do more dmg than the Minms. Well thats how i see it anyway... Its not fair that Amarr get a weapon that A. does what dmg blaster should do B.over muuuch more range. The mega pulse currently covers 75% of all combat range . Im not crying for an allout 'nerf', but some adjustments should be made, prolly to range/tracking or dmg/rof. IMO, sorry for my post being slightly 'nerf the megapulse'. But theres is a reason for every laser user going for it!! ------------------ (_8(\|) BEWARE. EBIL HOMER. IF SPOTTED CALL THIS NUMBER 0-800-I-C-HOMER
meowcat	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:19:00 - [13] you can leave megapulse like they are if you give blasters a 30km optimal that would be fair (note: for ppl with sarcasm bypass, yes i was) ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Aradous	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Watanabe Hammer ftw, down with no-skills-gankageddon imps. What he said
Bitto Fluff	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:34:00 - [15] A lot of people seem to have issues with the lack of skills required to use the pulses effectiviely. Perhaps it would be better to make them harder for newer players to use effectively - but as I said earlier - they can only ever do em or thermal so tanking them shouldn't be that hard on the guess work department.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:42:00 - [16] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 15/02/2005 13:46:43 Originally by: Bitto Fluff A lot of people seem to have issues with the lack of skills required to use the pulses effectiviely. Perhaps it would be better to make them harder for newer players to use effectively - but as I said earlier - they can only ever do em or thermal so tanking them shouldn't be that hard on the guess work department. What is it with thermal/em that makes you think that doing just em and thermal is some type of disadvantage ? Facts are simple, with a range close to 350mm rails, tracking that when related to its optimal range is much higher then any other gun including the 3km optimal blasters, and a damage mod as high as that of the same blasters the megapulse has the best of everything. it's base or compuonded d.o.t. beats any short range-high damage gun while still effective at up to 60km range and more. It fits comparatively easy as well and uses relatively little cap. And if you'd actually check the numbers, having em/thermal instead of thermal/kinetic (hybrids) is actually something good. Now, I'm glad CCP finally is taking a look at the single biggest imbalance in the game atm. Seeing their handling of the projectiles I'm quite sure they'll not overdo this change either. btw, Oveur never stated that they were about to nerf pulses, just that they were looking at the pulse balance. One wonders how the people that feel pulses are so balanced atm immediately come to the conclusion that Oveur was implying a nerf rather then some other change ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Bitto Fluff	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:48:00 - [17] Your missing my point, its not a case of the damage types on an individual basis, it's the lack of options that is the issue. If a player in an armageddon was up against a player in a non laser ship then he'd have little idea until they'd started shooting at each other as to what damage types to expect, where as his opponent will know what to tank straight away. Unless I'm missing something - which granted is quite possible - that seems like a bit of a downer
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Bitto Fluff Your missing my point, its not a case of the damage types on an individual basis, it's the lack of options that is the issue. If a player in an armageddon was up against a player in a non laser ship then he'd have little idea until they'd started shooting at each other as to what damage types to expect, where as his opponent will know what to tank straight away. Unless I'm missing something - which granted is quite possible - that seems like a bit of a downer only a dumb person doesnt know that hybrids only do Thermal/Kinetic and you can Tank Kinetic much better then EM (EM is good against most Shield tanks and armor tanks) Wanna fly with me?
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 15/02/2005 13:53:36 Originally by: Bitto Fluff Your missing my point, its not a case of the damage types on an individual basis, it's the lack of options that is the issue. If a player in an armageddon was up against a player in a non laser ship then he'd have little idea until they'd started shooting at each other as to what damage types to expect, where as his opponent will know what to tank straight away. Unless I'm missing something - which granted is quite possible - that seems like a bit of a downer You are. lasers => em/thermal with their long range radio crystal doing only EM (but a high amount of damage compared to other long range ammo). hybrids => thermal/kinetic projectiles => mixture of it all depending on ammo, but moslty they'll be using specific ammo's that are generally preferred. Which reduces the options for them as well. caldari => Can do everything, but unless its a ship with the kinetic damage bonus you can expect EM and Explosive torps in general. And tbh, even IF you'd know that someone you jsut engaged will be doing just one or two damage types that little fact wont influence your chances of victory much. You either have the hardener fitted or you dont. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Bitto Fluff	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:53:00 - [20] Lol, count me as dumb - but then again I've read that they're really not that good so haven't bothered looking into them
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:55:00 - [21] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 15/02/2005 13:55:58 _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Hakera	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:57:00 - [22] Edited by: Hakera on 15/02/2005 14:00:54 Originally by: Bitto Fluff Your missing my point, its not a case of the damage types on an individual basis, it's the lack of options that is the issue. If a player in an armageddon was up against a player in a non laser ship then he'd have little idea until they'd started shooting at each other as to what damage types to expect, where as his opponent will know what to tank straight away. Unless I'm missing something - which granted is quite possible - that seems like a bit of a downer EM is the main dmg type and lasers provide high raw damage for lower cap use than hybrids at far greater effective range (their range and their tracking in order to hit at different ranges). CCP already stated they do a soft approach now so I would not expect a huge whallop with the nerf bat and would not want it. I originally suggested an optimal reduction to 20-21k only. With more study perhaps the cap bonus given to Amarr ships could also be looked at as well but the implications of such a change are far wider impacting and as such without time to sit down and reconsider balance (which has shifted again recently with projectile boosts under certain scenarios like long range sniping) I would ask for the range tweak only for the minute but more attention made to missiles which have absolutely appauling dps for only a minimal gain in usefulness under a greater range of scenarios. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
SLIM	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:57:00 - [23] /emote has large pulse spec IV. Agree with the first poster. Nerf them, but don't nerf them TOO hard. 30% range penalty should do it. That'd give the base megapulse a base range of 10km or so with multis. I think that's pretty acceptable. ---------------------------
Elemmakil	Posted - 2005.02.15 13:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Bitto Fluff Lol, count me as dumb - but then again I've read that they're really not that good so haven't bothered looking into them Then get a clue before posting crap.
Porro	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:01:00 - [25] Im just wondering whether they make them a laser solution to blasters, or reduce dmg and tracking and leave the range as it is, making them an odd mid range gun.
Bitto Fluff	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:03:00 - [26] that cuts me deep
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:05:00 - [27] jeah make em close range. Centuria > whoot? Centuria > you stalking me? :) -- Nafri > then I a bird pooed on my head AND ON MY MEAL -- http://www.subroc.net/teddybears/
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Watanabe Hammer ftw, down with no-skills-gankageddon imps. No skills? The gank'a'geddon in particular benefits hugely from high skills
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:11:00 - [29] Well. going out on a limb I'd say it'll be the range that gets the nerf. In that case the damage can stay about the same, altho slightly less of it might not be a bad option unless they reduce the optimal to like 8km or something. But we'll see. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 14:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Rod Blaine Well. going out on a limb I'd say it'll be the range that gets the nerf. In that case the damage can stay about the same, altho slightly less of it might not be a bad option unless they reduce the optimal to like 8km or something. But we'll see. I'm betting on range reduction too. I'd also be interested to see if the Radio crystal gets tweaked down a bit. It does a lot of damage for a max range ammo.

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